3406 replies to this topic

[dragonflyx11]

When I was 12/13, I found Sakura and Ino most attractive in Part 1. Does that sound better?

well at least this debate is alot more lighthearted then the normal one lol.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Lol this is one funny topic going on. I think we should move on since this is the manga thread. To somewhat relate this, I find it odd to see Sakura in the other uniform if it were to be her last fight. I don't know, I'm used to final battle with their original look if not exclusive last battle look. That's just me.

[KnS]

Can Sakura break down the walls? Again, in a non-bias view…Yes. The advantage that Sakura has is she has seen Naruto at his weakest and at his strongest and, thanks to Sai, she sort of knows what lies behind the wall. She is still in the dark about a few things, but she is a lot closer to seeing who Naruto really is than Hinata or Sai.

Naruto then said she was lying to herself. I think I have another reason why he said this. It goes along with how Naruto still thinks Sakura loves Sasuke. The walls of his own insecurities are what push Sakura away. Sakura fought back with him claiming that he doesn’t understand. He doesn’t realize. I wonder is this here more or less saying “If you don’t come out of your shell and admit what you feel, then you are going to miss out on the things that make you happy.” Sakura even asked Naruto “If you don’t like me, then tell me.” Paraphrase of course and I realized Naruto didn’t answer this with a straight answer. If he didn’t love her, why not just tell her there? Boom, Over, Done, but he didn’t. Instead he tells her about Sasuke and that he understands him; hiding behind the wall. Naruto doesn’t disagree with Sasuke does he? Not really. More like he understands why he did it.

I wish I had $20 for every time these concepts have been covered (from one angle or another) on this forum, but they certainly bear repeating. I truly appreciate that you've collected everything into such a coherent post, James, and given it a fresh spin.

People aren't going to go back and read this thread (as well as the retired threads) from the very beginning, so putting all this out here again -- and adding new insights based on current manga events in such a clear way -- is both useful and refreshing. I know it takes a lot of time and energy to do something like this, so I personally thank you for caring enough to not only approach things in a rational manner, but to encourage morale in the process.

Sasuke is both the thing that ties Naruto and Sakura together and keeps them apart; Sakura with her emotions about Sasuke and Naruto with his feelings on Sasuke.

Exactly. As I said a zillion few pages back, Sasuke's influence on both Naruto and Sakura reminds me of the Linkin Park song lyric, "the very worst part of you... is me." Naruto and Sakura's relationship -- and I mean the entire dynamic that encompasses what they mean to each other and not merely romance -- is continually and simultaneously strengthened and crippled by their respective feelings for Sasuke.

As much as I dislike Sasuke personally (his emo shtick bores the snot out of me), there's no getting around the fact that he is a key and inescapable element in Naruto and Sakura's path to each other. As has been said time and time again, it seems obvious that the final development of Naruto and Sakura, as well as NarutoxSakura, depends upon Sasuke's return and resolution. (And not Hinata, since she is irrelevant to the Team 7 dynamic.)

With that being said, I strongly believe that Naruto is more insecure than Sakura is. Naruto doesn’t believe he can win in the end and is not strong enough to do so.

This is an interesting point. It often seems forgotten that Naruto has, in all practicality, grown up with little to no emotional foundation beneath him. We don't know who looked after his needs when he was a baby -- who changed his diapers, fed him, ensured his literal survival -- but what we were shown at the very beginning was that at age 11 he had apparently been living alone for some time. Alone. This is a HUGE thing.

It's not just a matter of being an orphan; there are a lot of orphans in this story, but most benefited early on from some kind of emotional bonding with parents or siblings before they were on their own. We have not been shown any evidence that Naruto had any emotional nurturing at all, and in fact the opposite has been suggested. Not to mention he was jinchuriki of the Kyubi, and all the adults (at least) in the village knew it. So it was a double negative -- no emotional nurturing that every child needs, while at the same time being ostracized and enduring extreme hostility.

We know that the Third, Iruka, and Kakashi -- at the very least -- were watching out for Naruto to some degree, but the truth is the poor kid didn't have even enough care and instruction to know he shouldn't consume spoiled milk, for Pete's sake. Much is made of Naruto's blockheadedness, but how could he not be dense? If he wasn't even schooled in common sense, imagine what else his upbringing was missing that most of the other characters took for granted -- hugs, being held, emotional encouragement, an understanding of relationships and love, a proper Birds and Bees lecture (except maybe from Jiraiya), you name it. We're given to understand that he had nothing and no one. The ultimate latchkey kid.

The point I'm trying to make is, the idea that Naruto has built thick emotional walls to hide behind makes complete sense -- not only from what we've been given to understand in the story, but from a classic psychological perspective. (My apologies to those who think it's impossible to impose Real World thinking on this story; Kishimoto is in the real world, and at least to some extent his ideas and presentation are rooted in that perspective.)

Naruto goes solely by instinct because that's literally all he has, and his first fledgling efforts to reach out -- to Sasuke and Sakura, in particular -- were a mixed bag of success and disappointment. Success in the sense that he proved himself worthy and determined so he was not ignored outright and positively impacted their lives, but disappointing in that neither Sasuke nor Sakura have (so far) been able or willing to break through Naruto's variety of defenses in order to meet his deeper emotional needs.

However, I believe that somehow, through some kind of Team 7 alchemy, Naruto will eventually get what he needs and wants most -- Sasuke's respect and friendship, and Sakura's heart.

*sigh*

I don't know. The manga seems to take on different meanings and levels of complexity when you interpret it from ground zero, from a ten-foot view, a hundred, or a thousand. At times it reminds me of one of those stereogram posters that on the surface looks like nothing special, but if you focus on it and relax you see a three-dimensional picture hidden within.

Do I read too much into a simple story? Maybe. But at this point I still believe it's more sophisticated than that, and that's why I am reluctant to criticize Kishimoto until everything is complete. I'm willing to wait and see what he does with the rest of the story. He's put a lot into it, after all, and it's likely to be the work that defines his career.

[swagosaurus]

My sig.

Nuff said.

[GlucoseGlutton]

This one...

Foreshadowing the Mangekyo Sharingan on Naruto's scroll back there, also, the scrolls from Naruto are the scrolls from the frogs.

Sasuke has that gourd which you can find on Susano'o, as well the flute can fairly inspire his prowess with genjutsu, like that lady from the sound 4 did it, only that he has the sharingan.

However, Sakura, once again, nothing...

Though that knife in her mouth looks pretty similar to this:





Here Sakura having that big sword, once again, nothing.

Sasuke has those giant Shurikens and I fairly believe that the brush can be connected with Jiraiya's writing the tales of naruto Uzmaki.

But anyway, Sakura, once again, nothing.

Well if the flute represents Sasuke's gengitsu skills then maybe the giant sword and axes symbolize Sakura's "super strength" ? I mean those things look ridiculously heavy and someone with normal/average strength probably wouldn't be able to pick those things up.
Now about which Naruto girl is better lookin'.... Hinata is cute, Ino is hot, Sakura is pretty but I'd totally go for Tenten.

[六道仙人]

I always find Sakura attractive. I like her figure, especially the way Kishi drew her in her summer swimsuit, though he got embarrassed along the way. Lol. In anime, when drawn right, she's my favorite. When not drawn right, well...no one. Lol. Still like her. I don't know, she just feels right to me. Other girls are good too. Ino can be 2nd at times to me in both anime/manga. Lol this is rather funny.

I agree. Moreover, i've no intention to bashing here, i don't understand really those people who saying the Hinata is the most beautiful girl in naruto's world... Big boobs apart, she's really not so special as they think. Bah

[TouKen4Life3g]

My sig.

Nuff said.

Lol. Oh man. This is getting awkward for some. Another of "DAT ***" moment would be that calendar picture. Yeah, I think we should switch topic.

@KnS: Maybe we are reading too much or not, but I think it's still one of those moral lesson manga in Shounen Jump and yeah, story can be complex. But who knows. Perhaps after the manga ends, we will know, but it does feel like we are thinking this right.

I agree. Moreover, i've no intention to bashing here, i don't understand really those people who saying the Hinata is the most beautiful girl in naruto's world... Big boobs apart, she's really not so special as they think. Bah

Yeah, she is overrated I admit. She's good but I wouldn't make her a goddess. She's just cute on face and personality. Other than that, that's all I got to say. She does seem like a fanservice character though.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 06 January 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[tricksie]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but in those manga covers/images Sakura is shown with the oversized ax or that double-ended sword. If I remember correctly, both of those weapons are traditionally female weapons, especially the battle axe. I can't find any info about it right now, but I remember Ciardha mentioning it too (way back) that it was seen as a female warrior's weapon in Asian culture. (Did find some incidental info on double-sided or double-bladed weapons as having a female orientation as well.) I'll keep looking....

But giving the oversized battle axe to Sakura was meant to reinforce her status as a warrior.

Anyway, I always find it interesting in those images which are so rife with symbolism, both cultural and storyline-wise. Sakura's not shown wielding a scalpel. She's shown with warrior's weapons.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but in those manga covers/images Sakura is shown with the oversized ax or that double-ended sword. If I remember correctly, both of those weapons are traditionally female weapons, especially the battle axe. I can't find any info about it right now, but I remember Ciardha mentioning it too (way back) that it was seen as a female warrior's weapon in Asian culture. (Did find some incidental info on double-sided or double-bladed weapons as having a female orientation as well.) I'll keep looking....

But giving the oversized battle axe to Sakura was meant to reinforce her status as a warrior.

Anyway, I always find it interesting in those images which are so rife with symbolism, both cultural and storyline-wise. Sakura's not shown wielding a scalpel. She's shown with warrior's weapons.

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. That reminds me, I do like Naruto carrying Sakura's weapon in that volume cover. I admit, I mark out for that one.

[Tsubaki]

Also these ones:



Where is the Slug for Sakura?



Naruto's and Sasuke's clan symbols became proeminent, Sakua, nothing.



This one...

Foreshadowing the Mangekyo Sharingan on Naruto's scroll back there, also, the scrolls from Naruto are the scrolls from the frogs.

Sasuke has that gourd which you can find on Susano'o, as well the flute can fairly inspire his prowess with genjutsu, like that lady from the sound 4 did it, only that he has the sharingan.

However, Sakura, once again, nothing...

Though that knife in her mouth looks pretty similar to this:





Here Sakura having that big sword, once again, nothing.

Sasuke has those giant Shurikens and I fairly believe that the brush can be connected with Jiraiya's writing the tales of naruto Uzmaki.

But anyway, Sakura, once again, nothing.

I get really sad when I see posts like this because Sakura had SO.MUCH.POTENTIAL! but in the end turned out not to being used for anything. If Sakura was a character that had nothing to work on her, I would understand this lack of development but she has.. She has her super strength,which is something that can be used to create incredible struggles, she has an amazing personality, a great look, she has practically everything that is needed to develop a awesome protagonist, but in the end she became the most hated by the fandom, this is really sad.

The thing I hate most about Kishi's writing is the way he treats his heroine. sometimes I really wanted to take her from him and give her to some mangaka who can do a better job with her ​​character.

[T XD]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but in those manga covers/images Sakura is shown with the oversized ax or that double-ended sword. If I remember correctly, both of those weapons are traditionally female weapons, especially the battle axe. I can't find any info about it right now, but I remember Ciardha mentioning it too (way back) that it was seen as a female warrior's weapon in Asian culture. (Did find some incidental info on double-sided or double-bladed weapons as having a female orientation as well.) I'll keep looking....

But giving the oversized battle axe to Sakura was meant to reinforce her status as a warrior.

Anyway, I always find it interesting in those images which are so rife with symbolism, both cultural and storyline-wise. Sakura's not shown wielding a scalpel. She's shown with warrior's weapons.

That makes sense. Then it means that these two weapons also represent Sakura's strength and her skills.

[Chatte]

I wish I had $20 for every time these concepts have been covered (from one angle or another) on this forum, but they certainly bear repeating. I truly appreciate that you've collected everything into such a coherent post, James, and given it a fresh spin.

People aren't going to go back and read this thread (as well as the retired threads) from the very beginning, so putting all this out here again -- and adding new insights based on current manga events in such a clear way -- is both useful and refreshing. I know it takes a lot of time and energy to do something like this, so I personally thank you for caring enough to not only approach things in a rational manner, but to encourage morale in the process.



Exactly. As I said a zillion few pages back, Sasuke's influence on both Naruto and Sakura reminds me of the Linkin Park song lyric, "the very worst part of you... is me." Naruto and Sakura's relationship -- and I mean the entire dynamic that encompasses what they mean to each other and not merely romance -- is continually and simultaneously strengthened and crippled by their respective feelings for Sasuke.

As much as I dislike Sasuke personally (his emo shtick bores the snot out of me), there's no getting around the fact that he is a key and inescapable element in Naruto and Sakura's path to each other. As has been said time and time again, it seems obvious that the final development of Naruto and Sakura, as well as NarutoxSakura, depends upon Sasuke's return and resolution. (And not Hinata, since she is irrelevant to the Team 7 dynamic.)



This is an interesting point. It often seems forgotten that Naruto has, in all practicality, grown up with little to no emotional foundation beneath him. We don't know who looked after his needs when he was a baby -- who changed his diapers, fed him, ensured his literal survival -- but what we were shown at the very beginning was that at age 11 he had apparently been living alone for some time. Alone. This is a HUGE thing.

It's not just a matter of being an orphan; there are a lot of orphans in this story, but most benefited early on from some kind of emotional bonding with parents or siblings before they were on their own. We have not been shown any evidence that Naruto had any emotional nurturing at all, and in fact the opposite has been suggested. Not to mention he was jinchuriki of the Kyubi, and all the adults (at least) in the village knew it. So it was a double negative -- no emotional nurturing that every child needs, while at the same time being ostracized and enduring extreme hostility.

We know that the Third, Iruka, and Kakashi -- at the very least -- were watching out for Naruto to some degree, but the truth is the poor kid didn't have even enough care and instruction to know he shouldn't consume spoiled milk, for Pete's sake. Much is made of Naruto's blockheadedness, but how could he not be dense? If he wasn't even schooled in common sense, imagine what else his upbringing was missing that most of the other characters took for granted -- hugs, being held, emotional encouragement, an understanding of relationships and love, a proper Birds and Bees lecture (except maybe from Jiraiya), you name it. We're given to understand that he had nothing and no one. The ultimate latchkey kid.

The point I'm trying to make is, the idea that Naruto has built thick emotional walls to hide behind makes complete sense -- not only from what we've been given to understand in the story, but from a classic psychological perspective. (My apologies to those who think it's impossible to impose Real World thinking on this story; Kishimoto is in the real world, and at least to some extent his ideas and presentation are rooted in that perspective.)

Naruto goes solely by instinct because that's literally all he has, and his first fledgling efforts to reach out -- to Sasuke and Sakura, in particular -- were a mixed bag of success and disappointment. Success in the sense that he proved himself worthy and determined so he was not ignored outright and positively impacted their lives, but disappointing in that neither Sasuke nor Sakura have (so far) been able or willing to break through Naruto's variety of defenses in order to meet his deeper emotional needs.

However, I believe that somehow, through some kind of Team 7 alchemy, Naruto will eventually get what he needs and wants most -- Sasuke's respect and friendship, and Sakura's heart.

*sigh*

I don't know. The manga seems to take on different meanings and levels of complexity when you interpret it from ground zero, from a ten-foot view, a hundred, or a thousand. At times it reminds me of one of those stereogram posters that on the surface looks like nothing special, but if you focus on it and relax you see a three-dimensional picture hidden within.

Do I read too much into a simple story? Maybe. But at this point I still believe it's more sophisticated than that, and that's why I am reluctant to criticize Kishimoto until everything is complete. I'm willing to wait and see what he does with the rest of the story. He's put a lot into it, after all, and it's likely to be the work that defines his career.

To be honest, I'd like to see a review from you and James.
You guys inspire me so much...

I get really sad when I see posts like this because Sakura had SO.MUCH.POTENTIAL! but in the end turned out not to being used for anything. If Sakura was a character that had nothing to work on her, I would understand this lack of development but she has.. She has her super strength,which is something that can be used to create incredible struggles, she has an amazing personality, a great look, she has practically everything that is needed to develop a awesome protagonist, but in the end she became the most hated by the fandom, this is really sad.

The thing I hate most about Kishi's writing is the way he treats his heroine. sometimes I really wanted to take her from him and give her to some mangaka who can do a better job with her ​​character.

I know. This underdevelopped Sakura is one of my frustrations. I mean, I understand her from the emotional stand-point and the fact that Kishi wanted to emphasize humanity via Sakura, but really now, it's mainly a ninja world, would it have hurted to give her more action?
At least, we, Sakura fans, could've coped easier with haters...

Edited by Chatte, 06 January 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[tricksie]

That's interesting. Thanks for sharing. That reminds me, I do like Naruto carrying Sakura's weapon in that volume cover. I admit, I mark out for that one.

I also think Sakura's clan symbol is interesting (that cover was posted too). Both Naruto and Sasuke's are broken circles, but Sakura's is a whole, completed circle with another dot inside. So it's unbroken, but it's not just a hollow tube, it has something inside anchoring it.

It reminds me of Sakura's role on the team as the non-orphaned, non-superpowered one, who's greatest skills come from her deep love and loyalty. The circle is definitely her symbol in that it's unending and encompassing.

If you look at Naruto and Sasuke as Yin and Yang (or vice versa!), then Sakura can easily be seen as the circle that binds them together.

edit: And take heart — I don't see those covers as a lost potential. Rather they are a mark of just how important she is to the story. I still think she has a bigger part coming before everything is said and done. Hinata may have the spotlight right now, but if you go back to the beginnings of the manga, she is no where to be seen.

edit, edit: I know she's more involved with Dr. Who now, but I'm hoping Ciardha will drop back in pierodically as the manga progresses. She had so much knowledge about Japanese culture that it really brought the manga to a whole other level. She'd know about those weapons for sure.

[T XD]

I get really sad when I see posts like this because Sakura had SO.MUCH.POTENTIAL! but in the end turned out not to being used for anything. If Sakura was a character that had nothing to work on her, I would understand this lack of development but she has.. She has her super strength,which is something that can be used to create incredible struggles, she has an amazing personality, a great look, she has practically everything that is needed to develop a awesome protagonist, but in the end she became the most hated by the fandom, this is really sad.

The thing I hate most about Kishi's writing is the way he treats his heroine. sometimes I really wanted to take her from him and give her to some mangaka who can do a better job with her ​​character.

For now, I'm really patient with Kishi cause I think he has something ofr her in the future chapters. maybe not this arc but in another one, and assuming that he'll make it up to her a lot.
I'll wait and see

[Chatte]

Well if the flute represents Sasuke's gengitsu skills then maybe the giant sword and axes symbolize Sakura's "super strength" ? I mean those things look ridiculously heavy and someone with normal/average strength probably wouldn't be able to pick those things up.
Now about which Naruto girl is better lookin'.... Hinata is cute, Ino is hot, Sakura is pretty but I'd totally go for Tenten.

Dunno eactly, however, Sakura was quite strong for a 12 years old one also.
Remember that giant log from the trap in forest of death? Hell, for a fragile one, she's pretty strong, if you ask me.
BUt could be that as well.

Still, those actual weapons would've been nice to have and do something with them. Hell, Kishi, you've taken down a character with so much potential...

I also think Sakura's clan symbol is interesting (that cover was posted too). Both Naruto and Sasuke's are broken circles, but Sakura's is a whole, completed circle with another dot inside. So it's unbroken, but it's not just a hollow tube, it has something inside anchoring it.

It reminds me of Sakura's role on the team as the non-orphaned, non-superpowered one, who's greatest skills come from her deep love and loyalty. The circle is definitely her symbol in that it's unending and encompassing.

If you look at Naruto and Sasuke as Yin and Yang (or vice versa!), then Sakura can easily be seen as the circle that binds them together.

edit: And take heart — I don't see those covers as a lost potential. Rather they are a mark of just how important she is to the story. I still think she has a bigger part coming before everything is said and done. Hinata may have the spotlight right now, but if you go back to the beginnings of the manga, she is no where to be seen.

Hmm, nice interpretation.

As for the bold, I SO PRAY SO, I SO PRAY FOR IT, GOD!
I am still waiting for that 2008 interview to come to a real thing, where Kishi said he wants to write about Kakashi, then Sakura.
Hopefully he didn't forget about her.

Edited by Chatte, 06 January 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[T XD]

Dunno eactly, however, Sakura was quite strong for a 12 years old one also.
Remember that giant log from the trap in forest of death? Hell, for a fragile one, she's pretty strong, if you ask me.
BUt could be that as well.

Still, those actual weapons would've been nice to have and do something with them. Hell, Kishi, you've taken down a character with so much potential...

I was really thinking if she were to really have those weapons, she would be more stronger and an epic ninja.
I'm still waiting for Kishi to do something more for her.

Edited by T XD, 06 January 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[tricksie]

Well if the flute represents Sasuke's gengitsu skills then maybe the giant sword and axes symbolize Sakura's "super strength" ?

To me, the flute always foreshadowed Sasuke's involvement with the Sound Nins, one of which played the flute.

But I think there are other covers that showed them with instruments (and going on a picnic maybe?). So it may be that the flute with a chain ties to some kind of Japanese symbolism as well. Again, I'm betting Ciardha would know.

[Chatte]

I was really thinking if she were to really have those weapons, she would be more stronger and an epic ninja.
I'm still waiting for Kishi to do something more for her.

I've been waiting this for years... It's so sad that Kishi put her in the back, it's like he has no respect for her, really, even though he said he is fond of her.
His words don't always match his actions, though.

[T XD]

I've been waiting this for years... It's so sad that Kishi put her in the back, it's like he has no respect for her, really, even though he said he is fond of her.
His words don't always match his actions, though.

I think that Kishi is delaying Sakura's role for the last arc, Naruto vs Sasuke. Sakura won't be sitting in the village and chatting while Naruto is out there confronting Sasuke. She won't fight Sasuke but she'll sure have something to do, like fighting against Team Taka or something, whatever that Kishi is planning for her.

Still waiting to see what Kishi palnned for her for the remaining of the manga.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

To me, Hinata is undeniably more "attractive" in the anime than she is in the manga. I don't know why, and I can't really explain it. In the manga, though, she just looks so...bland. No chest size can make up for that amount of blandness.

Even Tenten looks more appealing in the manga than Hinata does, and that's saying something.

It's the veins around her Byakugan. In the anime, her veins pop out when she uses Byakugan, but aren't as defined and jarring compared to the veins in the manga version, at least I think that's why she's more attractive in the anime than in the manga.