12811 replies to this topic

[Narufan85]

And herein lies the problem — if you accept that the ending scenario, which confirms that Sakura never moved on from Sasuke...then you also have to accept that Naruto only was attracted to Sakura because of his rivalry in the first place. 
 
According to the ending, Sakura never once feels bad for Naruto's 'unrequited love' — because, according to the ending, she knew it wasn't love, and love for her, at all. It was all about his feelings for Sasuke. She literally just laughs it off. And he goes along without blinking and eye. Shifting his affections, apparently in that moment, once and for all to Hinata.
 
The problem with blaming Sakura for never moving on from Sasuke is that if you do, you must, in the same breath, admit that it didn't matter anyway:  Naruto didn't love her to begin with. And she knew it all along. So there was nothing for her to move on to. 

This is an important point and one I have been failing to articulate. We have people bashing Naruto, people bashing Sakura, all while being inconsistent in the application of their anger. I think we need to realize that Naruto isn't trash; Sakura isn't a manipulative fangirl. What we need to focus on is the fact that Kishi's depiction of everything after 692 basically retconns and ruins everything he established up to that point. He is tHe one who drastically altered the personalities of his characters.

[Shashank95]

This is an important point and one I have been failing to articulate. We have people bashing Naruto, people bashing Sakura, all while being inconsistent in the application of their anger. I think we need to realize that Naruto isn't trash; Sakura isn't a manipulative fangirl. What we need to focus on is the fact that Kishi's depiction of everything after 692 basically retconns and ruins everything he established up to that point. He is tHe one who drastically altered the personalities of his characters.

What is it with Comics/Manga and retcons...??
 

[Nar123]

What is it with Comics/Manga and retcons...??
 

 

Retcons in comics are a normalt thing because frankly the stories over there are never quite finished, there will be aways new arcs for the characters and such

 

In Manga, however retcons are a symptom of bad writing, like it is in the other literary devices

[Nar123]

 

 

If you guys think that we are that stupid.... Why do you folks take the time to come here and pour your heart out...??

 

And let's not generalize the entire fandom. I mean we have so many people right here who take their time to be sensible and reasonable with their arguments.

 

The fandom in its majority is toxic, there is no denying unfortunately

 

Those who aren't are pretty rare, like this forum 

[AHK]

And herein lies the problem if you accept that the ending scenario, which confirms that Sakura never moved on from Sasuke...then you also have to accept that Naruto only was attracted to Sakura because of his rivalry in the first place. 
 
According to the ending, Sakura never once feels bad for Naruto's 'unrequited love' because, according to the ending, she knew it wasn't love, and love for her, at all. It was all about his feelings for Sasuke. She literally just laughs it off. And he goes along without blinking and eye. Shifting his affections, apparently in that moment, once and for all to Hinata.
 
The problem with blaming Sakura for never moving on from Sasuke is that if you do, you must, in the same breath, admit that it didn't matter anyway:  Naruto didn't love her to begin with. And she knew it all along. So there was nothing for her to move on to. 

The problem with what you said though is that if you accept all the things that you mentioned, you also need to accept the fact that Sakura didn't ever love Sasuke in the first place either, and that she "loved" Sasuke the same way that Naruto loved her, out of a rivalry with Ino. This is hypocritical of sakura in two ways:

1.) She laughed his affections off for loving her in the same way that she loved Sasuke, but her line "a girls feelings can't change" implies that her feelings grew into something more, yet she neglects to see that Naruto may have been jealous at first, but that could have grown into something more

2.)she was quick to declare Naruto never loved her and berated him for it, but if Sakura's love for Sasuke was borne the same way that Naruto loved Sakura, then Sakura needn't have moved on at all, because there was nothing to move on from, as she never loved Sasuke at all.

The problem is people are so quick to slam Naruto, yet they give sakura a free pass knowing full well that her love for Sasuke is the same as what Naruto's was retconed to be. Not only that, but they're hypocritical enough to say that Naruto never loved her, but Sakura loves Sasuke, and that Naruto's feelings couldn't progress into something more, while hers could. Not only that, but people forget that of the two scenarios, the only one with canon evidence to support then statement "love borne from rivalry" is Sakura, not Naruto. They're quick to call Naruto a scumbag, but Sakura is immune to it even though she did the same thing. The only difference between Naruto and Sakura is that she succeeded in her motivation to beat Ino. That's it.

Edited by AHK, 26 April 2015 - 04:35 PM.

[alexander]

 

 

And herein lies the problem — if you accept that the ending scenario, which confirms that Sakura never moved on from Sasuke...then you also have to accept that Naruto only was attracted to Sakura because of his rivalry in the first place. 

 

According to the ending, Sakura never once feels bad for Naruto's 'unrequited love' — because, according to the ending, she knew it wasn't love, and love for her, at all. It was all about his feelings for Sasuke. She literally just laughs it off. And he goes along without blinking and eye. Shifting his affections, apparently in that moment, once and for all to Hinata.

 

The problem with blaming Sakura for never moving on from Sasuke is that if you do, you must, in the same breath, admit that it didn't matter anyway:  Naruto didn't love her to begin with. And she knew it all along. So there was nothing for her to move on to. 

 

Not to mention this made Naruto affection for Sakura look really shallow. How any woman, no any person, feel if they found out someone only liked them because they wanted to rub their relationship on someone's else face? Sakura shouldn't have laughed about it then. She should have punched Naruto for treating her like a prize.

 

So in the end, Naruto is just some superficial jerk that is content with just about any woman. In fact Hinata would be the best option, because she would do anything he wants. The perfect submissive doll to atend to all of his needs without question.

 

Sakura is some idiot that will never move one from an man even if he makes her life a living hell. Because "woman need to stay faithful". Now all we need is for Sasuke to come back and put on a wife beater.

 

And Sasuke must be impregnating some other unfortunate woman as we speak. Gotta keep the clan strong, ye?

[Pix]

 

100% agree with this.

 

Kishimoto as the writer is ultimately guilty for everthing but if I forget Kishimoto and have to blame a character, I blame Sakura only for the way the pairings played out.

 

Naruto loved Sakura.

Sakura loved Sasuke

Sasuke had zero romantic interest in Sakura

Hinata loved Naruto

 

If Sakura had simply dropped her feelings for Sasuke, NS would have been canon and we will be the ones enjoying all the new era stuff. Sakura had good reason to move on from sasuke but she never did and that was the problem.

 

Hinata was a side character so her feelings never really would have mattered if Sakura had moved on and fell in love with Naruto because NS would have then been mutual. 

 

Simply put, the moment NS was mutual, Hinata would have been the one to move on from Naruto.

 

So unlike most people here, I don't blame Naruto for moving on from Sakura. I dont see it as him giving up. Naruto can't force Sakura to love him and If Naruto did not move on, he would probably have been like Jiraiya or Kakashi. Single.... and i personally dont see that as a happy ending for Naruto.

Exactly. 

 

And now I would like to take the time out to point out a small contradiction from Kishimoto himself. In the interview where he called NS a red herring, he did admit that Sakura was beginning to look at Naruto differently. 

 

However, in The Last, it is explained that Naruto only liked Sakura because of his rivalry with Sasuke.  

 

So tell me: 

[LuckyChi7]

Lol It's hilarious to see how this is playing out cause on my who is Sarada's Mother video, there is a war going on between an SK Fan and a SS Fan which is kinda amusing, and all I'm doing is just reading the comments. 

[Pix]

 

 

And herein lies the problem — if you accept that the ending scenario, which confirms that Sakura never moved on from Sasuke...then you also have to accept that Naruto only was attracted to Sakura because of his rivalry in the first place. 

 

According to the ending, Sakura never once feels bad for Naruto's 'unrequited love' — because, according to the ending, she knew it wasn't love, and love for her, at all. It was all about his feelings for Sasuke. She literally just laughs it off. And he goes along without blinking and eye. Shifting his affections, apparently in that moment, once and for all to Hinata.

 

The problem with blaming Sakura for never moving on from Sasuke is that if you do, you must, in the same breath, admit that it didn't matter anyway:  Naruto didn't love her to begin with. And she knew it all along. So there was nothing for her to move on to. 

Not necessarily true. This could also be the case where Naruto finally gives up on Sakura- because of her obsession with Sasuke. There could be a slim chance where Naruto was already distancing himself from Sakura after the war, and her redirecting his love for her towards Sasuke could have been the final blow.  

 

If this were the case, then you don't have to accept that Naruto only liked her like ramen all of this time, while also admitting that Sakura would never move on from Sasuke. I have to strongly agree with Rahda, Sakura is the most to blame for NH and SS canon, and second will ultimately be Hinata. The least to blame is Naruto. Because, even if he did only like her because of Sasuke, if Sakura would have admitted that she was somewhat attracted to him (which was confirmed in the first interview), then NS would have had an underwhelming version of canon.

[Narufan85]

The problem with what you said though is that if you accept all the things that you mentioned, you also need to accept the fact that Sakura didn't ever love Sasuke in the first place either, and that she "loved" Sasuke the same way that Naruto loved her, out of a rivalry with Ino. This is hypocritical of sakura in two ways:
1.) She laughed his affections off for loving her in the same way that she loved Sasuke, but her line "a girls feelings can't change" implies that her feelings grew into something more, yet she neglects to see that Naruto may have been jealous at first, but that could have grown into something more
2.)she was quick to declare Naruto never loved her and berated him for it, but if Sakura's love for Sasuke was borne the same way that Naruto loved Sakura, then Sakura needn't have moved on at all, because there was nothing to move on from, as she never loved Sasuke at all.
The problem is people are so quick to slam Naruto, yet they give sakura a free pass knowing full well that her love for Sasuke is the same as what Naruto's was retconed to be. Not only that, but they're hypocritical enough to say that Naruto never loved her, but Sakura loves Sasuke, and that Naruto's feelings couldn't progress into something more, while hers could. Not only that, but people forget that of the two scenarios, the only one with canon evidence to support then statement "love borne from rivalry" is Sakura, not Naruto. They're quick to call Naruto a scumbag, but Sakura is immune to it even though she did the same thing. The only difference between Naruto and Sakura is that she succeeded in her motivation to beat Ino. That's it.

Like I said, the more we here can try to be consistent in the application of our anger towards the characters, the better we will all get along and focus on the real culprit.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Lol It's hilarious to see how this is playing out cause on my who is Sarada's Mother video, there is a war going on between an SK Fan and a SS Fan which is kinda amusing, and all I'm doing is just reading the comments. 

It is pretty amusing to see others doing this. Granted I don't encourage fire, but hey, the winner thought his work is grand, so how about test your might.

[Pix]

 

The fandom in its majority is toxic, there is no denying unfortunately

 

Those who aren't are pretty rare, like this forum 

Agreed. There is absolutely no denying it at this point. Other big fandoms, like Attack on Titan, Free or say, Tokyo Ghoul, look like angels compared to us. Our fandom consisted of so much victim blaming, horrid writing, shipping wars, problematic forgiveness, misogyny, and illogical theories that over time, we've officially been branded as the worst anime fandom ever. 

 

And even though people here are very normal, other parts of our fandom will tell you otherwise. Because to them, we're the actual dumb*sses of the fandom. The irony is glorious sometimes. 

[trang95]

Agreed. There is absolutely no denying it at this point. Other big fandoms, like Attack on Titan, Free or say, Tokyo Ghoul, look like angels compared to us. Our fandom consisted of so much victim blaming, horrid writing, shipping wars, problematic forgiveness, misogyny, and illogical theories that over time, we've officially been branded as the worst anime fandom ever. 

 

And even though people here are very normal, other parts of our fandom will tell you otherwise. Because to them, we're the actual dumb*sses of the fandom. The irony is glorious sometimes. 

Tumblr and youtube gave me a little taste of what the entirety of the Naruto fandom is like. I'm glad I never joined Naruto Forum and the other ones out there.

[tricksie]

nh/ss family photos

 

Just so everyone gets the pleasure of see both pairings.

 

Didn't get the chance to respond to this yesterday. Ok - these pictures are just...so...strange.

 

The ONLY one who has an OC facial expression is Sakura. The stance is ok, but the clothes are not her at all. So even though her smile is cute and in keeping with her, the rest is out of sync.

 

So first thing, their poses - Loking at the parallel poses, it's clear the focus of each is Naruto and Sakura. Why? Why them? It should have been Naruto and Sasuke, with the two wives and families off to the side. The damn series revolves around those two, so they should have had the parallel. But here, both Sasuke and Hinata are almost a step away from their spouse. Naruto's reaching for Hinata, almost like he's presenting her. WHHYYY??? She's the CLAN HEAD? Why does she look like a poor little wifey? This is nuts. But Sakura's is worse. She's not even reaching for Sasuke. Instead it's Salada who gets pushed forward. Honestly, it feels like Sasuke's not even there, just added in later. Which makes sense after this chapter! As for Naruto, it's a bit of the same — even though he's reaching for Hinata, he's not physically beside her. Both Naruto and Sakura are set apart from their spouses. Both Naruto and Sakura are the only ones making meaningful eye contact with the viewer.

 

To me, these aren't 'family photos' meant to reinforce that these are the spouses/families/lives that Naruto and Sakura have happily chosen. Instead these are images to reinforce that Naurto and Sakura are now apart. The focus is on Naruto and Sakura, the parallel is them as individuals not their domestic bliss, and the read from the images is that this is the life they live now, for better or for worse.

 

Next is their faces — Naruto's not happy, not like he used to be. Hinata is visibliy uncomfortable. Sasuke is distrustful. Sakura looks happy and cute, but her pose, with her back almost completely turned to Sasuke's back, almost makes her feel alone. So even though she looks happy, the rest of the pose undermines it. 

 

And their clothes — Naruto's hokage outfit is bland, nothing like the brash do-it-my-own-way kid he was. Hinata is so maternal looking. All bust an apron and clasped hands — like she just left the kitchen to stop for this photo. Almost expect her to have a dishrag in her hands. Whereas Sakura looks like she's going out on a date. Neither of the women look like the shinobi they once were. Not one bit. But where Hinata has gone more maternal, Sakura looks more womanly and sexy. She's pretty, but it's not a good look for her. At no point in history has anyone ever said, "Wow, I think hiking my shirt up and showing off my belly button will make people take me more seriously." Sakura's clothes downgrade her to a pretty object instead of a powerhouse. (I won't even go into how Sakura looks like Karin. It's too obvious.) And Sasuke is forgettable in all black. And never before has he been forgettable. He's a completely different character now.

 

One last point on the clothes - If both girls were easily recognizable as shinobis before, I would say their clothes now identify them as housekeeper and hostess. 

 

Perspective — I'm not going to focus on the kids because they are visually unimportant to these images. How do I know that? Look at the whacked out perspective. Why are they sooo short?? Makes no sense. They're tiny. And BS are supposed to be 12yos! They look like 6yos and HImawhatever looks like a toddler. Also, I think Hinata's height has been drastically shortened as well. All in all, the focus is on the parallel between Naruto and Sakura. The whole picture is built around that.

 

Last thing, the eyes — Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else feel like Hinata's vacuous moon-eyed look has been transferred to Naruto as well? There are several characters in the manga that don't have pupils (like Ino), but Naruto always has. His eyes have always been drawn with expressive shading. Not just wide, open and pupil-less like Hinata's. But here, with the half smile and flat eyes, he looks more like Hinata than himself. 

 

So I wanted to take a moment to point of some of the difference, and the inherent similarities, because it's not just some throwaway image – it's a representation of choices. The choice to parallel Naruto and Sakura. The choice to delineate them with a strong line of space from the rest of the people. The choice to have two introverted spouses. The choice to have disconnected children.

 

Like I said, these pictures say less to me about familial happiness and love, and more about two people being separate. For better or for worse. These pictures are about Naruto and Sakura. Not their families.

 

And I think it says a lot that Naruto and Sakura's poses look like two halves of the same picture. The rest look like they'd rather be someplace else altogether. 

[Pix]

Tumblr and youtube gave me a little taste of what the entirety of the Naruto fandom is like. I'm glad I never joined Naruto Forum and the other ones out there.

This is exactly why I never joined NF. I can't even last 2 hours on that site. The general Naruto fandom is trash. And this has nothing to do with shipping. This is literally their guideline: 

• Bash Sakura 
• Make fun of TnJ 
• Talk about Hinata's boobs 
• Talk about how amazing Sasuke is 
• Completely disregard anything Kishimoto does because he's the "lolz Troll King"  
• Praise Kishimoto like a God  
• Make crap theories to justify a bad character's actions

Like, lol, is this not the entire Naruto fandom? 

[trang95]

This is exactly why I never joined NF. I can't even last 2 hours on that site. The general Naruto fandom is trash. And this has nothing to do with shipping. This is literally their guideline: 

• Bash Sakura 
• Make fun of TnJ 
• Talk about Hinata's boobs 
• Talk about how amazing Sasuke is 
• Completely disregard anything Kishimoto does because he's the "lolz Troll King"  
• Praise Kishimoto like a God  
• Make crap theories to justify a bad character's actions

Like, lol, is this not the entire Naruto fandom? 

Everytime I go to youtube. It's sickening to me, tbh.

[Namikaze Clan]

Weren't Bolt and Sarada like six during the epilogue? I'm sure Gaiden takes place a few years after 700. The picture just shows there look during the epilogue

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Which is why I joined this site. He'll I didn't know NF and NB exist before I saw this Website. And thank God I found this.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I am a sole survivor of NF. I never really participated in the debate or discussion in chapters, pairings, etc. It's the worst. I only posted my thoughts, but then I got tired because Kage Summit was becoming ridiculous and the fan base becomes more of mocking the series. A bit similar to here where we actually have pro-Naruto and anti-Naruto. Anyway, I left and just stick to the pairing thread. I still remember my name used to be Neji4ever. But then, sometimes later, I became NS4L. Needless to say, the fandom became blindsided, mainly the pairings. Turns out that all you need is pairing to like the series. Those who cares just wish to die. I even encountered just recently a former fan mocking the hell of SS because it was dirt worst. I was shocked but not really. There were a lot of people that just didn't care anymore. I remember seeing that WSJ thread, one guy begged Naruto just to get killed off. He got his wish at times in ratings. Good for him. Lol.

 

That's my short story.

[rocci]

@trickstie
Yahagi(the first kishi editor) only become editor until sasuke awakening ms. So he still kishi editor before hunt for 8 tails.
That mean, yahagi doesn't participate in pein arc.