4869 replies to this topic

[ciardha]

I just sit back and laugh at most of the posters in the telegrams section of NF, it's entertaining how badly they read the manga.

[Merger Knight]

I just sit back and laugh at most of the posters in the telegrams section of NF, it's entertaining how badly they read the manga.

so what kind of board is that?

[ciardha]

so what kind of board is that?

Narutofan, telegrams is the spoiler section

[Cloud]

so what kind of board is that?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NarutoFan



Maybe a search will help.

[RedDelicious]

I looked through the recent Naruwards when they were coming out. Despite the NaruHina tidal wave, Sakura won the Best Female Lead. Nominated 5 times, won 5 times, even though Hinata was also nominated 5 times. I was surprised. I guess I've listened to the irrational rabid NaruHina/anti-Sakura fanatics for so long, I was making the mistake of lumping together NaruHina == pro-Hinata == anti-Sakura.

Every time someone talks about how Hinata was trying to save Naruto, I wonder why she didn't pull the chakra rods loose, instead of standing and speechifying. Or bring along her bodyguard to do that while she distracted Pein. She wasn't trying to save Naruto, she was trying to die while doing something heroic in front of her idol (Naruto), which isn't the same thing.

[ciardha]

She wasn't trying to save Naruto, she was trying to die while doing something heroic in front of her idol (Naruto), which isn't the same thing.

Also Hinata still had no confidence in Naruto succeeding, so in her mind she had to get that confession in before he got killed.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I looked through the recent Naruwards when they were coming out. Despite the NaruHina tidal wave, Sakura won the Best Female Lead. Nominated 5 times, won 5 times, even though Hinata was also nominated 5 times. I was surprised. I guess I've listened to the irrational rabid NaruHina/anti-Sakura fanatics for so long, I was making the mistake of lumping together NaruHina == pro-Hinata == anti-Sakura.

Every time someone talks about how Hinata was trying to save Naruto, I wonder why she didn't pull the chakra rods loose, instead of standing and speechifying. Or bring along her bodyguard to do that while she distracted Pein. She wasn't trying to save Naruto, she was trying to die while doing something heroic in front of her idol (Naruto), which isn't the same thing.

I've wondered why Hinata didn't try to do that either, Red. Though I think that one reason whyu Sakura didn't intervene besides tending to Tsunade was simple; she had enough faith in Naruto to know she didn't need to go help him, like in that mess with Madara/Tobi; and hence her telling Hinata then not to worry.

If anyrthing, in spite of how much Hinata feels for Naruto, she doesn't know him as well as Sakura, considering too that she worried a lot about him when Madara was beating him around, or her worrying for him when Neji slammed him with the 8 Trigrams 64 Palms, and her thinking for him to NOT keep going after taking that, or when he was fighting Pain.

Even if Hinata does care, though, her weakness is that she doesn't know Naruto as well as Sakura due to not spending as much time with him.

Bryon

[Merger Knight]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NarutoFan



Maybe a search will help.

Thanks

Also Hinata still had no confidence in Naruto succeeding, so in her mind she had to get that confession in before he got killed.

She doubted Naruto??? Why?

[ciardha]

Thanks



She doubted Naruto??? Why?

It's just part of her character- despite idolizing Naruto she never had trust in him to succeed at anything. It's just a reflection of how she doesn't know him very well and never really has made an effort to do so.

[Froot]

Uh-huh. They expect two people who barely know anything about each other to form a life-long relationship.



Purpose of Hinata's confession:

1. Plot Device - How else could Kishi Kyuubifie Naruto? He had to do it somehow, to lead the plot to probably the most important part of the arc, Naruto meeting his dad and getting his seal tightened. He couldn't use Sakura, as that would further complicate the plot and add in another twist he didn't really need.

2. Wrapping things up - This ties well into #1. Letting Hinata's feelings go unspoken would have left an awkward plot hole in the series. At the same time, Kishi needed to activate another plot device (Naruto's Kyuubification [Props to me for making up a new word.]). Why not kill two birds with one stone?

3. To further prove that it was purely for Hinata, Kishi had her basically jump to her death. She even said it herself; She was ready to die. Instead of freeing Naruto, (the smart thing to do) she fought Pein. Her shining moment. She might as well have died, as Pein revived everyone later anyways. (I don't get that. Someone care to analyze?)

4. It obviously wasn't meant to make Naruto fall in love with Hinata. If it were, he would have acknowledged it, at least as an afterthought. The most he did was see if she was alive, continue fighting, then promptly go off and spend time with Sakura.

It's not that Naruto's heartless, it's just that Kishi decided it wasn't important, and being the mangaka he is, he decided to stop things there and move on. Hinate gets her ''chance,'' accepts Naruto and Sakura, and everyone goes on with their lives.

Edited by Froot, 16 December 2009 - 01:13 AM.

[Nee-sama]

3. To further prove that it was purely for Hinata, Kishi had her basically jump to her death. She even said it herself; She was ready to die. Instead of freeing Naruto, (the smart thing to do) she fought Pein. Her shining moment. She might as well have died, as Pein revived everyone later anyways. (I don't get that. Someone care to analyze?)

Further proof that she didn't believe Naruto could win. Instead of jumping in to assist, she acted on her own and failed.

If it had been Sakura jumping in there, which she didn't because she made the conscious decision to leave it up to him, she would have helped Naruto first so they could work as a team against Pain.

Teamwork has been stressed over and over again in the ninja world. The only thing Hinata ever did to help Naruto as a teammate was to help him cheat in the first round of the Chuunin Exams.

[dfammer]

That would explain her looking on with an approving smile,like the rest of the village when Sakura was hugging Naruto.

[ciardha]

Further proof that she didn't believe Naruto could win. Instead of jumping in to assist, she acted on her own and failed.

If it had been Sakura jumping in there, which she didn't because she made the conscious decision to leave it up to him, she would have helped Naruto first so they could work as a team against Pain.

Teamwork has been stressed over and over again in the ninja world. The only thing Hinata ever did to help Naruto as a teammate was to help him cheat in the first round of the Chuunin Exams.

Actually not even that, Naruto refused the offer because, like Sakura he didn't realize the objective was to cheat. Naruto and Sakura were the only two that didn't realize that. And Sakura showed care for Naruto and his dream above anything else- didn't even have a moments thought of how Sasuke might have reacted or repercussions for herself either, she began to raise her hand just for Naruto's sake.

During the Pain destruction of Konoha Sakura again and again thinks of others welfare. Look what she does- takes down the giant centipede that even jonin ninja were fleeing from, comforts and heals Tami, goes and pours herself into healing the endless stream of injured.

When Naruto goes 6 tails, Sakura takes charge- seeks out and heals Hinata personally, orders everyone evacuate from anywhere near the battle zone, and makes plans to find Yamato to return Naruto back to himself. She was listened to unquestionably by even elite Jonin. Pretty darn impressive leadership for a 16 year old girl of Chunnin rank who is skilled medic nin with no ambitions of ever being Hokage. Pretty strong examples of how well she understands teamwork too. She evacuated people not only because of the danger they were in being too close to the battle zone, but because she didn't want anyone hurt or be killed by Kyuubified Naruto and Naruto feeling crushing guilt over it once he was restored to himself.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Also during the Pain arc, when Hinata was healed by Sakura, NH stated that Sakura now knows Hinata loves Naruto and she indeed is a great NH fan. Sakura will eventually be the one who will tell Naruto Hinata loves him, and then Naruto will love her as well. then NH is CANON
Then SS states Naruto is a SS fan,will be the one who will open up to Sakura that Sasuke is the one for her SS is Canon

Now the two main characters have a fandom. they expect that it would likely to happen but..

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 16 December 2009 - 05:27 AM.

[Jenskott]

Fascinating, but it can be understood, thanks Jenskott. As for the literal phrase you were questioning, it does kinda come out looking like word vomit, you'd have to rephrase it completely to make it comprehensive to something like "To have the audacity to replace Sakura with Hinata in every NaruSaku scene makes them, I don't know, Hypocritical?" Or something like that, depending on the way that the writer wants to phrase it.

Thank you. Yes, that could work, but it would change the sentence too much, so I opted to use a similar construction.

I think "they are hypocritical enough to" is befitting and it doesn't force to twist around the sentence.

how to detect hypocrisy and double standards in a pairing argument

Hinatas sacrafice of jumping in front of the nigh unstoppable Pein for her devotion and desire to protect narutp is considered the ultimate act of true love by fandom

Sakuras attacking Sasuke for narutos sake is considered Suicidal

Sakura is doing this to protect naruto and her ""attempt at suicide"" is being dismissed outright or being turned into a selfish act, when Hinatas act was a self proclaimed selfish act by her own words.

I remember that. And yes, it's damned hypocritical. I have always qualified both actions like "brave but stupid". They were being brave and selfless for the right reasons, but they rushed in recklessly and impulsively, regardless.

define double standards

that very isntance is blown off as something anyone would do for their teamate

while her running to Sasuke in a similar situation is constantly pointed to as an act of ZOMG twu wub

That, too.

And hugging Sasuke is an unmistakable act of pure and unblemished and enduring love, even if Sasuke didn't hug her back. But hugging Naruto was an act of mere friendship -even if she was confessing her love in one of those instances- and Naruto not hugging her back is proof of it.

I looked through the recent Naruwards when they were coming out. Despite the NaruHina tidal wave, Sakura won the Best Female Lead. Nominated 5 times, won 5 times, even though Hinata was also nominated 5 times. I was surprised. I guess I've listened to the irrational rabid NaruHina/anti-Sakura fanatics for so long, I was making the mistake of lumping together NaruHina == pro-Hinata == anti-Sakura.

Fascinant. Perhaps there is hope for this fandom after all.

I've wondered why Hinata didn't try to do that either, Red. Though I think that one reason whyu Sakura didn't intervene besides tending to Tsunade was simple; she had enough faith in Naruto to know she didn't need to go help him, like in that mess with Madara/Tobi; and hence her telling Hinata then not to worry.

I think the reason is simpler than that. Let's examine the facts:

1-Pain blows up the town. A massive dust cloud fills the bowl-shaped crater formerly known as Konohagakure. Naruto arrives.

2-Sakura can't see anything. There is dirt floating everywhere and she is too far from the epicenter from the explosion. She wonders aloud what is happening. A Hyuuga clansman activates his White Eye, observes the situation and reports Naruto has arrived. Sakura swoons. The battle starts. Sakura swoons.

3-Shortly after, Gamakichi arrives carrying Tsunade. She turns around, takes care of Tsunade, and someones suggests to retreat to a safer place.

4-The battle rages on. Hinata and Koh activate his Byakkugan and realize Naruto has arrived. Hinata sees Naruto pinned in the ground and bolts towards the battlefield.

5-Sakura is still looking after Tsunade when she notices demonic chakra impregnates and pervades the atmosphere. She asks what is happening. The Hyuuga shinobi informs the seal has broken. Sakura inmediately takes charge and plans how saving Naruto -and no one questions her autorithy-.

If you realize, only Hyuuga clan's members were capable to see what was happening since they wield the White Eye. Sakura couldn't see anything and she needed relying on a Hyuuga member in order to know what was happening. And before sensing the Fox was loose, she had been told Naruto was winning easily. When she realized what had happened, she acted inmediately.

Therefore, she didn't act because she didn't see what happened to Naruto. She didn't know what he had been smashed down and pinned down.

Of course, she trusted Naruto implictly. That is because she nodded when Gamakichi told Naruto had asked no one intervened in the fight (now I'm thinking about it, Katsuyu was by her side. Why didn't she warn Sakura was Naruto was losing? I guess she also was following the Naruto's wishes. And maybe she would answer nobody asked her).

He asked nobody stepped in the fight. And he was winning. Sakura trusted him and focused her efforts in looking after Tsunade. Besides, for all she knew, he was still keeping the upper hand.

Other than it, I agree with all what has been said here about Sakura, Hinata and her lacking of trust on Naruto.

2. Wrapping things up - This ties well into #1. Letting Hinata's feelings go unspoken would have left an awkward plot hole in the series. At the same time, Kishi needed to activate another plot device (Naruto's Kyuubification [Props to me for making up a new word.]). Why not kill two birds with one stone?

Exactly. Now no one will wonder what would have happened if Hinata would have confessed (so far the answer seems being... Nothing).

Also during the Pain arc, when Hinata was healed by Sakura, NH stated that Sakura now knows Hinata loves Naruto and she indeed is a great NH fan. Sakura will eventually be the one who will tell Naruto Hinata loves him, and then Naruto will love her as well. then NH is CANON

I don't understand why they ever thought that would happen. It made no sense. And why did they think Sakura supported NH and would tell Naruto Hinata loved him? Are they admitting her confession was so meaningless he doesn't remember it? And why did they think Naruto would love Hinata if someone explained to him Hinata loves him?

Then SS states Naruto is a SS fan,will be the one who will open up to Sakura that Sasuke is the one for her SS is Canon

Now the two main characters have a fandom. they expect that it would likely to happen but..

That makes NO sense either. Naruto isn't a SS fan. And why should he try convincing Sakura Sasuke is the one for her? He may turn her advances down if he believes she isn't in love with him, but why he would he try pushing her towards Sasuke if she is stating she doesn't want anything with him anymore? And what about SASUKE's feelings? Even if Sakura wasn't in love with Naruto and even if Naruto successfully convinced her to pursue Sasuke, it doesn't change the fact Sasuke DOESN'T -and NEVER DID- love Sakura.

[tricksie]

Along the same lines as everyone above, when Hinata threw herself out in front of Naruto, her selfless act also showed that she didn't understand him like Sakura did. (I won't quote everybody, cause I agree with you all!)

During the battle, when it's at it's worst, we see Sakura's tears, then the single panel of her calling out for Naruto. In that moment, she believes he's the only one who can save Konoha. The village is destroyed. She alone knows that he can save them.

The next panel is him landing. Kishi is graphically connecting them. We see the devastation of the village through Sakura, our estimation of the damage is judged through her reaction. When you compare the scenes with Sakura, where you're right there with her in the debris, to Hinata's confession, where you are forced to be an audience member to her speech just like Naruto is (lol, well forced to be), then there is little doubt where Kishi wants the emotional center of the story to be. He wants it centered around narusaku.

(We see Naruto's action through Naruto, but we measure his pain, fear, success and dreams through Sakura's eyes. Naruto blusters about being the best, Sakura says she doesn't want to see his dream crushed, etc., etc. etc.)

Then in the end of the Pain arc, everyone acknowledges him as the hero, the here that she has always known him to be. To me, it makes the hug in that much more signigicant. She knew they wouldn't be there without him.

I think that the arc has a lot to do with acknowledgement, which is so important to Naruto. And if you compare NS with NH in that arc, it is black and white: Sakura acknowledge him from start to finish, while Hinata saw what she needed to see, giving him her love but not acknowledging him in return.

[Jenskott]

I think that the arc has a lot to do with acknowledgement, which is so important to Naruto. And if you compare NS with NH in that arc, it is black and white: Sakura acknowledge him from start to finish, while Hinata saw what she needed to see, giving him her love but not acknowledging him in return.

That is very true.

NS got the biggest development, like always. But since the tiny NH development (which it was mostly Hinata's development: her crush got confirmed in canon and she confessed) was flashy and dramatic whereas NS was again subtle and non-histrionic, many people neglected it or tried brushing it away like friendship gestures.

I repeat: there is no such a thing like friendly hugs in Japan.

[Merger Knight]

She was listened to unquestionably by even elite Jonin. Pretty darn impressive leadership for a 16 year old girl of Chunnin rank who is skilled medic nin with no ambitions of ever being Hokage.

Of course just becaus eshe doesnt want to be one doesnt mean she won't.

Kakashi never wante dto be one but now he kind of is... I think.

Besides both Sakura and Naruto are in the Hokage line

[ciardha]

That is very true.

NS got the biggest development, like always. But since the tiny NH development (which it was mostly Hinata's development: her crush got confirmed in canon and she confessed) was flashy and dramatic whereas NS was again subtle and non-histrionic, many people neglected it or tried brushing it away like friendship gestures.

I repeat: there is no such a thing like friendly hugs in Japan.

Yep, not between a girl and boy of or near the same age that aren't biological family. You notice in Naruto how little hugging we see. Naruto didn't even know how to do a handshake very well as he told Gaara.

[RedDelicious]

Of course just becaus eshe doesnt want to be one doesnt mean she won't.
Kakashi never wante dto be one but now he kind of is... I think.
Besides both Sakura and Naruto are in the Hokage line

One way I could imagine the series ending is with Naruto about to become kage,
and asking (book-smart-genius) Sakura if she will help him. It would be a nice
confirmation of NaruSaku, and show Naruto's growth (that he would turn to
someone else for help, instead of keeping it bottled up inside).