4869 replies to this topic

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Well, Pinky is alright(even though i am a boy)


I think Bryon was setting you up for a response if he disagreed with you in the future:
"Don't make me hurt you, Pinky!" (narf!)

I was reading through Wikipedia, and came across this:
"...Brain insults him constantly and often beats him over the head. However, Pinky actually seems to enjoy this, laughing after every hit."

What a radical concept, one character hitting another for comic effect, and the one being hit not minding at all.
I wonder if there are anti-Sakura posters writing essays about how Pinky hates the Brain due to the abuse.

Anyways...

I asked this question earlier, and don't remember seeing a response, so I'll ask again. (If I overlooked something, my apologies.)

The claim is being made (by some) that Sakura going off to kill Sasuke shows that she loves Sasuke more than Naruto.
IF that was true, then why did she visit Naruto (and rock his world by confessing her love), instead of going straight after Sasuke?

LOL ..
Pinky reminds me of Patrick the Starfish
Anyways,
That kind of argument was used by SS fans and interpreting that she only confessed because she is feeling guilty of the burden she put to Naruto. .

Hollywoodesque tripe is a fitting name. God, I had troubles erading the whole paragraph.

And you are right. NaruSaku is predictable in the sense of it is a Main character/Tsundere female lead. But that is where its predictability ends.

When I read chapter 3, I figured Naruto and Sakura would end up together (that was a long time before I shipped the pairing, mind you). I guesses Sakura's relationship with Sasuke would not progress at all, and on the other hand her bonds with Naruto would strenghten, whereas Naruto wouldn't stop loving her.

And that is exactly what has happened so far. However the development has been more complex and more slow-paced than I had expected.



Personally I think that is a very weak argument and it can be easily turned on whoever is using it for defending NS or SS. You could easily claim Sakura going off to kill Sasuke shows she loves Naruto more that Sasuke, since she is determined to kill her crush to protect Naruto, not matter what she can still feel towards Sasuke.

Ironically, it was not long ago when SS fans claimed Sakura would kill Naruto without one second thought in order to defend Sasuke because she loved Sasuke. Now she is downright willing killing Sasuke in order to protect Naruto. Supposedly, that proves she loves Sasuke more. I'm sorry, but both arguments don't add up.

Anyways, I reckon they are making progress: if they are using that argument (Sakura loves Sasuke more than Naruto) then they are tacitly admiting or acknowledging she LOVES Naruto.

Nonetheless, I wonder why someone would ever think Sakura would side with Sasuke and turn on Naruto. Even if we ignored chapter 308 (where Sasuke tried hurting Naruto and she attacked Sasuke) the development of the plot and the characters clearly shows the Sakura's loyalties lay with Naruto and Konohagakure, and she would not betray them for Sasuke.

Maybe they took seriously her words back in the chapter 198 ("Please, stay with me. And if it isn't possible, let me go with you"). I thought they were the words of a desperate teen kid who clearly wasn't thinking what she was telling, and her next sentence ("I'll scream and yell if you try leaving") proved that. And her posterior behaviour reinforced my impression.

Sakura will eventually kill Naruto?!
As suspected they are desperate from then to now. I am kinda new in debating(pairings) but I have never thought they would think like that.
First stating Databooks are more important than Manga, and comparing the outcome of the pairing would be like Twilight.

And even if she meant it, she wasn't telling: "I'll betray and kill for you". She was telling: "Allow me go with you". I would bet she wasn't thinking of the implications (which actually reinforces my point).

Yeah, they have taken that seriously alright and almost comparing it to Sakura Confession to Naruto right now.
They said Sakura's confession to Sasuke is more sincere because it involves tears,persuasion to stay and etc and on Naruto, only they stated (again) only lies/guilt/pity involved.

I guess, the only difference is that Sakura now knows what "UNSELFISH LOVE IS"
and back on part 1, her confession involves "infatuation/selfish/desperation".

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 15 December 2009 - 08:52 AM.

[Froot]

They honestly thought Sakura would be so quick to kill Naruto? I guess they really do want her to be a terrible character. I'll be facepalming all day.

Anyways, for all of you who don't know...

Naruwards --Click here to view--

Third year. It's no surprise, honestly, even though NaruSaku has had much more development. Ch. 437 also won best manga moment, I believe.

But yeah. Maybe next year.

[Jenskott]

^^ PI-LEASSEEE. They thought Sakura would Kill Naurto!?!??

Sakura will eventually kill Naruto

They honestly thought Sakura would be so quick to kill Naruto?

I admit your shock has surprised me. I thought it was common knowledge. I found posts claiming that nosense in NF forums back when Sasuke was searching Itachi, and even I have found NH fans telling that after chapter 450.

Yeah, they have taken that seriously alright and almost comparing it to Sakura Confession to Naruto right now.
They said Sakura's confession to Sasuke is more sincere because it involves tears,persuasion to stay and etc and on Naruto, only they stated (again) only lies/guilt/pity involved.

Please.... This is pitiful.

But if they want playing that game, we can tell SasuSaku involves lies (Sakura pretended being another person in order to woo Sasuke, fell in love with him cause one lie and she was frightened of showing her true skill), guilt (Sakura feels guilty because she hasn't been capable to help Sasuke or heal him; in order to SasuSaku happens, Sasuke would have to feel guilty for having rejected her, having left and having tried killing her) and pity (Sakura pities Sasuke; Sasuke would have to pity Sakura because she has loved him despite himself).

Third year. It's no surprise, honestly, even though NaruSaku has had much more development. Ch. 437 also won best manga moment, I believe.

You know, I can't truly care for it, not matter how I try.

Best moment? I would rank Naruto throwing rhynos in chapter 430, the entire chapter 450, the Mizukage kicking butts or the Kisame/KillerBee squirmish way, way above this.

[Froot]

I admit your shock has surprised me. I thought it was common knowledge. I found posts claiming that nosense in NF forums back when Sasuke was searching Itachi, and even I have found NH fans telling that after chapter 450.

I suppose. Maybe I was just foolish to believe that the SasuSaku fans actually thought highly of Sakura. My mistake.

Please.... This is pitiful.

But if they want playing that game, we can tell SasuSaku involves lies (Sakura pretended being another person in order to woo Sasuke, fell in love with him cause one lie and she was frightened of showing her true skill), guilt (Sakura feels guilty because she hasn't been capable to help Sasuke or heal him; in order to SasuSaku happens, Sasuke would have to feel guilty for having rejected her, having left and having tried killing her) and pity (Sakura pities Sasuke; Sasuke would have to pity Sakura because she has loved him despite himself).

All of their arguements can be easily twisted around against them. It's actually a strategy I use often while debating. Our arguments, however, are unique and can't be used by other fandoms.

You know, I can't truly care for it, not matter how I try.

I know I shouldn't care, and I wish I could say I didn't, but if NaruSaku had won, then I would be excited.

Best moment? I would rank Naruto throwing rhynos in chapter 430, the entire chapter 450, the Mizukage kicking butts or the Kisame/KillerBee squirmish way, way above this.

As would I. But you should understand that the majority of the voters were probably NH fans who barely read the manga but skim it, looking only for parts where Naruto and Hinata are in the same panel.

[Jenskott]

I suppose. Maybe I was just foolish to believe that the SasuSaku fans actually thought highly of Sakura. My mistake.

Maybe they do it their way. Naruto has plenty fans would like he behaved like an a**hole. A lot of Naruto fans would like he behaved like an a**hole. A lot of Hinata fans would like she behaved like an obsessive yandere.

However there are A LOT OF SS fans don't think highly of Sakura at all. I guess the bulk of them are NH fans who despise Sakura and side-ship SS because that pairing gets the two persons Naruto cares the most about out of the way of NH.

All of their arguements can be easily twisted around against them. It's actually a strategy I use often while debating. Our arguments, however, are unique and can't be used by other fandoms.

Agreed.

It doesn't help the most of NH/SS arguments are actually anti-NS arguments. They don't try and explaining why NH/SS is a good relationship, they try bringing NS down. Of course they can be twisted around (Stuff A rocks because Stuff B sucks is always a terrible argument).

I know I shouldn't care, and I wish I could say I didn't, but if NaruSaku had won, then I would be excited.

Perhaps. But it was a poll made in a board fruqented by a lot of NH fans, so that result was to be expected. All I can make is yawning.

Anyway, why should we care? They can win all popularity contests they want, but it will not change or alter one damned thing. NH popularity has never done anything for NH.

Kishimoto doesn't even know those fans exist (he told in one recent interview he didn't know Naruto was popular in America).

As would I. But you should understand that the majority of the voters were probably NH fans who barely read the manga but skim it, looking only for parts where Naruto and Hinata are in the same panel.

And how often does such an event happens? Let's see: chapter 98, chapter 282 ( )... chapter 353 ( )...

Good Heavens...

It sounds unbelievable, but it's the only thing would explain several arguments I have come across.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

They honestly thought Sakura would be so quick to kill Naruto? I guess they really do want her to be a terrible character. I'll be facepalming all day.

Anyways, for all of you who don't know...

Naruwards --Click here to view--

Third year. It's no surprise, honestly, even though NaruSaku has had much more development. Ch. 437 also won best manga moment, I believe.

But yeah. Maybe next year.

Now they won by popular demand
Its okay they won all sorts of pairing contest.. The important is WE ARE WINNERS IN THE MANGA(CANON)

[Jenskott]

Now they won by popular demand
Its okay they won all sorts of pairing contest.. The important is WE ARE WINNERS IN THE MANGA(CANON)

Exactly.

That is the only thing counts for something.

It's because that I couldn't care less for poppularity contests of boards I never peek in, lurk in or frequent.

And honestly, NH wouldn't annoy me so much if it wasn't by the fandom (I'm talking about the "NH IS CANON!" crazy group. Obviously, the most of NH fans are calm and respectful and nice. Regrettably, I have heard real wacky-sounding arguments even from decent NH fans).

Edited by Jenskott, 15 December 2009 - 02:41 PM.

[jinsterr]

Personally I think that is a very weak argument and it can be easily turned on whoever is using it for defending NS or SS. You could easily claim Sakura going off to kill Sasuke shows she loves Naruto more that Sasuke, since she is determined to kill her crush to protect Naruto, not matter what she can still feel towards Sasuke.

Ironically, it was not long ago when SS fans claimed Sakura would kill Naruto without one second thought in order to defend Sasuke because she loved Sasuke. Now she is downright willing killing Sasuke in order to protect Naruto. Supposedly, that proves she loves Sasuke more. I'm sorry, but both arguments don't add up.

Anyways, I reckon they are making progress: if they are using that argument (Sakura loves Sasuke more than Naruto) then they are tacitly admiting or acknowledging she LOVES Naruto.

Nonetheless, I wonder why someone would ever think Sakura would side with Sasuke and turn on Naruto. Even if we ignored chapter 308 (where Sasuke tried hurting Naruto and she attacked Sasuke) the development of the plot and the characters clearly shows the Sakura's loyalties lay with Naruto and Konohagakure, and she would not betray them for Sasuke.

Maybe they took seriously her words back in the chapter 198 ("Please, stay with me. And if it isn't possible, let me go with you"). I thought they were the words of a desperate teen kid who clearly wasn't thinking what she was telling, and her next sentence ("I'll scream and yell if you try leaving") proved that. And her posterior behaviour reinforced my impression.

And even if she meant it, she wasn't telling: "I'll betray and kill for you". She was telling: "Allow me go with you". I would bet she wasn't thinking of the implications (which actually reinforces my point).

I find it laughable that Sakura would kill Nauto in order to defend Sasuke, when isn't it the other way around? Sakura going after Sasuke to kill him in order to protect Naruto and Konoha. And after chapter 308, we can clearly see that Sakura's loyalties ARE to Naruto and Konoha as she is willing to attack even Sasuke. I don't think after many chapters of development on her part, she would throw it all away on account that she till loves Sasuke in some way.

And the SS-shippers are forgetting that Sakura chose Naruto. That the reason she's going after Sasuke is to protect Naruto; to take the burden from his hands and place it onto her shoulders, because she doesn't want him putting himself in danger for Sasuke anymore. She confessed her love for him not only to release him from the promise, but also that it'll be easier for him somehow--she was thinking of his feelings and his well-being from the very start. She knew there'd be the chance of Naruto possibly hating her for this if she were to succeed in killing Sasuke, and she decided she would carry it because, again, it's all for the sake of keeping him from harm's way; from preventing him from making a difficult decision she knew would hurt him.

And Sakura probably thinks she deserves his resentment considering she'd hurt him when he made that promise to her.

All this is just repetition... I totally agree with what you said about chapter 198. Sakura's confession to Sasuke seemed more of a last-minute act of desperation in order to get Sasuke to stay with her. And I'm pretty sure if she were to go with Sasuke, she would have later regretted it.

[Merger Knight]

I felt the same way, which is exactly why I picked NaruSaku as my OTP, even before I knew it was a pairing. Same with me and Kataang. I saw it from the start, and I always pick the first main pairing I see.

I picked them, well I cant remeber. I just liked them, especailly how naruto keot on going after her and being hit,

Nailed It --Click here to view--

They say that mimicry is a form of flattery... Not in this case.

what did that translate into?

[Daniee]

No. The irony is if he stated Naruto loved Sakura he doesn't know what he is talking about, but if he states Sakura still likes Sasuke, he is a source of wisdom and absolute truth (and he stating she loves Naruto now is conveniently ignored, disregarded, neglected and forgotten)

The real irony is that one absolutely can't say Sai didn't know what he was talking about when he told Sakura that Naruto loves her, because of his flashback in the preceding chapter...
He pretty much heard it straight from Naruto's mouth that he loves Sakura, and Sai let her know this in the tone of a guy who's not kidding around. Where as in Ch. 474, he's making assumptions in regards to Sakura's feelings. Not saying he's wrong, just that it has less impact than when he told Sakura about Naruto's feelings.

Furthermore, what do they think Sai is going to do now? He knows that Naruto loves Sakura, believes that she loves him back, and supports killing Sasuke. Do they think he's going to try to hook up Sasuke and Sakura? His recent behavior has shown that he somewhat resents Sasuke for doing this to his old teammates.
I'm pretty sure Sai saying Sakura loves Sasuke and wants to end his evil actions was simply to expain why Sakura supports killing Sasuke. If all Sakura wanted to do was protect Naruto and Konoha, and release Naruto of his burden, then there are ways of doing that that don't involve killing Sasuke, so Sai explained to Naruto why Sakura chose this.

I kind of wish we knew what Sakura planned on doing had Naruto accepted her confession. She said that she wanted him to return to the village (or what's left of it) with her, but then what? Would she still go after Sasuke by herself? Would she try to convince Naruto to help her? Or did she just not think that far ahead?

[Nate River]

I picked them, well I cant remeber. I just liked them, especailly how naruto keot on going after her and being hit,




what did that translate into?

I know very little spanish, but from what I can gather, it's a pro-NaruSaku fan calling NaruHina fans hypocrits and criticizing them for altering the above NaruSaku images.

[TwilightLink20xx]

what did that translate into?

Pretty much what Nate River said. With a little help from Google Translate and my mediocre knowledge of Spanish, this is what the guy is saying:

This can be summed up in a single word: Hypocrisy

Because Kishi gives them no material; It (NaruSaku moments) is all they can use, so they feed their fantasies (by ripping off the scenes), because if they don't, they'd get NOTHING. These fans have the AUDACITY of dismantling a NaruSaku moment, but love to replace Sakura with Hinata. Hypocrisy, right?

(That's basically what it says, sorry, the bulk of my Spanish knowledge is oral and auditory, not written)

Edited by TwilightLink20xx, 15 December 2009 - 06:06 PM.

[Jenskott]

It's pretty much what Nate and Twilight have said. And I should know (I'm Spanish).

But if someone wants a more accurate translation...

[TwilightLink20xx]

Best moment? I would rank Naruto throwing rhynos in chapter 430, the entire chapter 450, the Mizukage kicking butts or the Kisame/KillerBee squirmish way, way above this.

I agree, and the 430 with the Rhyno chucking and epic entrance was number 2. But Pairing wank won out in the end.

And go for it Jenscott, I wanna see how off I ended up being xD

Edited by TwilightLink20xx, 15 December 2009 - 06:46 PM.

[Jenskott]

I agree, and the 430 with the Rhyno chucking and epic entrance was number 2. But Pairing wank won out in the end.

Yes. It is pretty sad when you consider this series is mainly about world-reshaping fights.

And go for it Jenscott, I wanna see how off I ended up being xD

Okay. Now, keep in mind my translation will try grasping the concept rather being literal (I'll also add punctuation marks):

La Cruda Realidad = The Harsh Reality (crudo/a usually means raw, but in this instance it is equivalent to harsh)

Original=Original

Copia barata=Cheap Rip-off

This can be summarized in one single word: Hypocrisy. Given that Kishi don't give them material, it is the only thing they can resort to. Only like that they can feed their fantasies because otherwise they would get NOTHING. These fans are so hypocritical to bring down a NaruSaku moment but they are very fond of removing SAKURA from the scene and including Hinata, aren't they?

Here you have it. I wasn't too sure about how translating some words and expressions (I wasn't sure about how translating "solo asi". Solo=only and Asi=so. But "only so" would make no sense. And "tener la hipocresia para" literally means "have the hypocrisy to" but I wasn't sure that wording made sense in English language. And desmantelar=dismantle, hence it was an accurate translation, but I thought "bring down" fitted better. Nevertheless, this is the translation I would do after a fashion).

Language is a fascinating thing, isn't it?

[TwilightLink20xx]

Fascinating, but it can be understood, thanks Jenskott. As for the literal phrase you were questioning, it does kinda come out looking like word vomit, you'd have to rephrase it completely to make it comprehensive to something like "To have the audacity to replace Sakura with Hinata in every NaruSaku scene makes them, I don't know, Hypocritical?" Or something like that, depending on the way that the writer wants to phrase it.

[catsi563]

how to detect hypocrisy and double standards in a pairing argument

Hinatas sacrafice of jumping in front of the nigh unstoppable Pein for her devotion and desire to protect narutp is considered the ultimate act of true love by fandom

Sakuras attacking Sasuke for narutos sake is considered Suicidal

Sakura is doing this to protect naruto and her ""attempt at suicide"" is being dismissed outright or being turned into a selfish act, when Hinatas act was a self proclaimed selfish act by her own words.

[dfammer]

How about when Naruto turned into the 4-tails and Sakura risked her life and was injured trying to bring Naruto back to himself? that was a great testimate to how great her feelings are for Naruto.

Edited by dfammer, 15 December 2009 - 08:08 PM.

[Merger Knight]

How about when Naruto turned into the 4-tails and Sakura risked her life and was injured trying to bring Naruto back to himself? that was a great testimate to how great her feelings are for Naruto.

ya she literally risked her life for him

It's pretty much what Nate and Twilight have said. And I should know (I'm Spanish).

But if someone wants a more accurate translation...

Thanks

Edited by Merger Knight, 15 December 2009 - 08:16 PM.

[catsi563]

How about when Naruto turned into the 4-tails and Sakura risked her life and was injured trying to bring Naruto back to himself? that was a great testimate to how great her feelings are for Naruto.

define double standards

that very isntance is blown off as something anyone would do for their teamate

while her running to Sasuke in a similar situation is constantly pointed to as an act of ZOMG twu wub