3406 replies to this topic

[Chatte]

I don't think it's rushed, but more like he over-extended himself. Like I've said before, he introduced a HUGE amount of characters in a short amount of time and then plunged the world into a war. There was some build-up, but it was a small amount. If he only continued what he'd been doing since the Rescue Gaara arc, which were smaller conflicts with the Akatsuki, there may be lesser problems.

Like the idea I posted before, Naruto's conflict with the Akatsuki should take him to the other Shinobi countries, where we would meet the other characters we've been introduced (like the Kages and their bodyguards) one at a time and give ample screen time to other characters.

Another idea should be prolonging the war. If Kishi wants a war, it probably should take longer than two days, but he seems adamant to ending this war in two-three days.

Huh, I just contradicted myself. Well, you're right, it IS rushed, but also a case of over-extending himself.

True, over-extending is, indeed, another part.
I mean how Gaara rescue Arc happened, so could've happened with the others. Every Akatsuki member in a certain country and then he'd have them all covered. Minus Pein. Pein thing is perfect imo.
However, the things that happened in this Arc... don't wanna go into details but, actually, to me, some were really crap.

And Neji's death is crappy and rushed thing as well. You don't involve him for some time, then you bring him and kill him in the same chapter all for Hinata to pep talk Naruto? As much as I loved it, it's hell of an OOC situation to me.
But meh.

Also, Madara beating the Kages like nothing, not even explaining how they got "not so ok" with wooden that Tsunade can smash into pieces.
Come on, now, Kishi!

But, oh well...

Edited by Chatte, 05 January 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'm just waiting for the arc to end to conclude my judgment. It has gone on for so long, that I need to reread the manga again. That's the problem with side characters (who are not relevent to the main plot). They can take a lot of time out of it. It was so fine with arcs before this one. I understand it's war, but we all literally waited for 2 years to get all of them together. I don't even know if this Kishi's intention in te first place because in the past arc, he only focused on main and side characters that are relevent. In any case, we almost done. That said I got questions for all of you.

Knowing that there's only 2 chapters left in a volume, do you think this fight will end in 2 chapters or do you think it will go on longer? I can't help but think we will get a "boss battle" (not counting Juubi), but that's just me.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I'm just waiting for the arc to end to conclude my judgment. It has gone on for so long, that I need to reread the manga again. That's the problem with side characters (who are not relevent to the main plot). They can take a lot of time out of it. It was so fine with arcs before this one. I understand it's war, but we all literally waited for 2 years to get all of them together. I don't even know if this Kishi's intention in te first place because in the past arc, he only focused on main and side characters that are relevent. In any case, we almost done. That said I got questions for all of you.

Knowing that there's only 2 chapters left in a volume, do you think this fight will end in 2 chapters or do you think it will go on longer? I can't help but think we will get a "boss battle" (not counting Juubi), but that's just me.

It does feel like it's gone on long, hasn't it? Too many things happened in this arc, it's somewhat overwhelming.

[Chatte]

It does feel like it's gone on long, hasn't it? Too many things happened in this arc, it's somewhat overwhelming.

Indeed.
Not to mention, that, to be honest, I think no romantic or pairing involvement should've been done in this war. Either NH or NS.
This is War for kitten's sake! (excuse my language, please)

[StriderC]

It does feel like it's gone on long, hasn't it? Too many things happened in this arc, it's somewhat overwhelming.

For me, this arc went from an arc with soooo much potential and it just sort of flattened. I remember how extremely excited I was when I saw Sakura on the field with the combatants, and how I thought she'd play a significant role in a fight with Rock Lee, Kakashi, and Guy but he skips that battle completely and we see her in a tent... I was pretty upset with that bit because we didn't get to see her fight for one, and then she was basically pushed to do only medical nin. I wished she would of fought Chiyo or some other biggie. Would of been epic IMO.

Anyway, this arc definitely has been dragging out, and it's only really getting good again, and for me that's because of the rookies. The Neji death was so random, and rushed, and I honestly didn't like how he died to bring Naruto and Hinata a bit closer. It seems like that was the only way to make her as relevant as she is at this point... at the expense of another character unfortunately. Bleh...

[sushi.]

I was talking overall.
This War arc is the worse in my opinion.
Pein Arc was the absolute pinnacle in my opinion. The pshycological/morals behind everything. Excellent writing.
NH, I didn't kinda even cared back then...
I was more into what Naruto has to offer me from this stand-point.
And now I am really disappointed in Kishi, how he rushes everything.
Damn...

I agree, I loved the pain arc. Excellent writing!

IMO, all the good stuff from Naruto is almost gone. He destroyed Obito and Kabuto. Naruto's self confidence is nowhere as charming as in part 1. As James said, he had all the confidence in the world in part 1. Just don't destroy the pairings as well It's like he's milking NH to keep the fans until the end. That's dirty.

[Sakura Blossoms]

You might see me as immature this way, but I don't feel like I've had everything I needed to say. I don't feel satisfied when when someone just walks away from an argument without reaching a consensus together.

The consensus is to AGREE TO DISAGREE AND MOVE ON. Stubbornly trying to force a 'discussion' aka argument will get no one anywhere. The Mods and Admins are already on the verge of locking this thread and possibly the debate thread for a few days of peace, if you all don't stop the constant bickering and arguing. We all have lives of our own to live, and this isn't a paid job. We run this forum because we love the pairing and the community. We can't keep devoting near 24 hours of our lives to essentially babysitting you all, like you're all grade schoolers who constantly get into schoolyard brawls. If a time-out for everyone is what is needed, then that's what's going to happen.

AGREE TO DISAGREE AND MOVE ON.

[Chatte]

I agree, I loved the pain arc. Excellent writing!

IMO, all the good stuff from Naruto is almost gone. He destroyed Obito and Kabuto. Naruto's self confidence is nowhere as charming as in part 1. As James said, he had all the confidence in the world in part 1. Just don't destroy the pairings as well It's like he's milking NH to keep the fans until the end. That's dirty.

Exactly, after Pein arc, it all went downhill!

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well I do like what you guys said about this arc. Actually, everyone here got bits before entering this stage of the arc. A lot of people got a part, but it has been going for a long time. We had to settle RTN for reminder what Naruto is actually is. Thankfully it did, but sadly, we got to wait for a while now. Hopefully, this whole thing really means the last of developments from all of these side characters. Because honestly, I don't see how they would fit in with Team 7, especially if Sasuke is truly the final villain. That said I have enjoy here and there, but it felt odd not seeing Naruto or any main characters in the picture. Now they are but waiting to see how far can they go.

Well, someone said romance should not be in war. That's true; however, there are ways, just not forcing and making it cheesy. The best option is the calm before storm scenario. No one is fighting but before the final battle, they all have one last thing to say/do. That's how I see it for Naruto and Sakura, especially if that storm is Sasuke. Another option, which is ok, is after the whole battle/war ends. If Sakura does the same as OVA 2011, well you know already. Anyway, yes, this arc has been going for a while, that not even the new game apparently won't cover everything (shame). I do sense that the next arc will have that "that's more like it" effect on general audience. There are mangas that has gone through this and usually the next arc is much more to its roots. It's not guaranteed but hopefully, it will be more story based than well, maybe fanservice based.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't think it's rushed, but more like he over-extended himself. Like I've said before, he introduced a HUGE amount of characters in a short amount of time and then plunged the world into a war. There was some build-up, but it was a small amount. If he only continued what he'd been doing since the Rescue Gaara arc, which were smaller conflicts with the Akatsuki, there may be lesser problems.

Like the idea I posted before, Naruto's conflict with the Akatsuki should take him to the other Shinobi countries, where we would meet the other characters we've been introduced (like the Kages and their bodyguards) one at a time and give ample screen time to other characters.

Another idea should be prolonging the war. If Kishi wants a war, it probably should take longer than two days, but he seems adamant to ending this war in two-three days.

Huh, I just contradicted myself. Well, you're right, it IS rushed, but also a case of over-extending himself.

Indeed, seems like a mix of both. He is so over-whelmed with tying up lose ends that it feels rushed. lol, I just had a visual of this giant lego set of Naruto characters and the editor just dumped it all on Kishimoto's desk and says "Well...make it work."

hmmm Naruto lego....now THAT is what I want to see.

I do like that Akatsuki in different Shinobi countries idea as well. Wish it was come to pass. It would have explained so much on how Naruto ended hatred.

Sand Ninja: "So how did you get in this war?"
Mist Ninja: "Our Kage owed Naruto a favor."
Sand Ninja: "You too huh?"

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 06:30 PM.

[Don-kun]

I agree, I loved the pain arc. Excellent writing!

IMO, all the good stuff from Naruto is almost gone. He destroyed Obito and Kabuto. Naruto's self confidence is nowhere as charming as in part 1. As James said, he had all the confidence in the world in part 1. Just don't destroy the pairings as well It's like he's milking NH to keep the fans until the end. That's dirty.

Dirty is a small word to what I witnessed with the RTN the Movie, I mean why advertise a pairing just to troll then off in a movie, also all the posters the RTN panel with Sasuke all romantic and Hinata all over Naruto.
If you want to sell a product sell it for his value not for creating false expectation. Many Authors are a lot more forwards when it comes to this stuff.
Am pretty sure that if he did show some of the bonding Naruto and Sakura had instead of the other two pairing plus all the other stuff they presented it would still be a successful, by the simple fact that the movie was even more successful after the opining day.

Someone please correct the bold part if am wrong.

Edited by Don-kun, 05 January 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Dirty is a small word to what I witnessed with the RTN the Movie, I mean why advertise a pairing just to troll then off in a movie, also all the posters the RTN panel with Sasuke all romantic and Hinata all over Naruto.
If you want to sell a product sell it for his value not for creating false expectation. Many Authors are a lot more forwards when it comes to this stuff.
Am pretty sure that if he did show some of the bonding Naruto and Sakura had instead of the other two pairing plus all the other stuff they presented it would still be a successful, by the simple fact that the movie was even more successful after the opining day.

Someone please correct the bold part if am wrong.

Hard to say, but if there are more returning fans to see the movie again, then it is a success. Going by that Tokyo guy, he really loves the movie a lot, so he didn't feel phased by the false advertisements. It's truly hard to say if the ads are really false in terms of romance, because honestly, it can go many ways. One is that they advertised only the favorites and the other is to give you the best idea that the world they're in is complete opposite. I mean who in the million years would guess Sasuke will be a playboy or Hinata being vicious and not shy. I agree that it's false advertisement in terms of appearances and importances of K9 + Sasuke (hardly). Other than that, maybe to those who are whatever to NS now see it differently, so I guess that's a good thing.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Indeed, seems like a mix of both. He is so over-whelmed with tying up lose ends that it feels rushed. lol, I just had a visual of this giant lego set of Naruto characters and the editor just dumped it all on Kishimoto's desk and says "Well...make it work."

hmmm Naruto lego....now THAT is what I want to see.

I do like that Akatsuki in different Shinobi countries idea as well. Wish it was come to pass. It would have explained so much on how Naruto ended hatred.

Sand Ninja: "So how did you get in this war?"
Mist Ninja: "Our Kage owed Naruto a favor."
Sand Ninja: "You too huh?"

I'm so close to putting it up as a challenge on the fanfic threads so someone would take up the mantle of writing it, but since school is starting/has started, I'll just bring it up again when Summer starts.

I'd write it up myself, but I don't think I have the writing ability to pull it off.


Not to say that the War Arc has some good moments, though, Sakura being confronted by that ninja that has a crush on her did cause some development. Plus we see more of Naruto being a badass. Ei and Bee are also some of the baddest of the badass Shinobi I've seen. Ei's just "Oh, Amaterasu, lolkay" and snaps off his arm like it was nothing. Those two just trash Sasuke absolutely.

It's just that the way Kishi's been goin,' as others have said, it's like a lighting technician trying to move the spotlight from one star to another in a stage and cutting them off soon after because another needs the spotlight.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Now just to finish up and sums up everything.
I understand now why kishi said that it's hard to make Sakura's character heroine.
I think it's because the whole premise of Sakura falling in love with Naruto after he changes her, Naruto make Sakura stop thinking low about herself.
And what makes it's strong is the Sasori's arc.
She kicked ass, she did a lot of stuff, she did a lot of heroish things that Hinata does not even come close to it, she got info about Orochimaru and Sasuke, and saved people.
Then suddenly she pulls out on the bridge "I only do small things for Naruto..."
LIke srsly? i cant understand how Sakura from Sasori's arc became the Sakura of the bridge's arc and forwards that thinks so low about herself.
Does not make any sense, a Sakura kicking ass and at the same time thinking low about herself, i simply cant understand.
People like chyio baa, yamato saying that she's great and it's like it does not have an effect even Chyio-baa words didnt had an effect, i think this is the reason why she didnt meet up with Sakura again.
I think when he started drawing Sakura thinking low about herself it was when kishi decided to make NS canon, at least is how i think.
Because it makes him unable to make her heroish, he started to draw her as weak, as someome who doubt about herself.
That confession arc shows up it, she didnt fight, she didnt kicked ass but showed a lot of weaknesses, weakness towards Naruto, weakness towards Sasuke, and a whirlwind of feels everywhere, the heroish thing that she did was that she show how far she was willing to do for Naruto.
But that was the best that kishimoto could do.
I think for kishi to bring that Sakura from Sasori's battle back he has to end the pairing drama, he has to make NS canon.

About hinata, Naruto never made any statement about her, like he didnt make any compliment about her appearences or something like that.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 January 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Now just to finish up and sums up everything.
I understand now why kishi said that it's hard to make Sakura's character heroine.
I think it's because the whole premise of Sakura falling in love with Naruto after he changes her, Naruto make Sakura stop thinking low about herself.
And what makes it's strong is the Sasori's arc.
She kicked ass, she did a lot of stuff, she did a lot of heroish things that Hinata does not even come close to it, she got info about Orochimaru and Sasuke, and saved people.
Then suddenly she pulls out on the bridge "I only do small things for Naruto..."
LIke srsly? i cant understand how Sakura from Sasori's arc became the Sakura of the bridge's arc and forwards that thinks so low about herself.
Does not make any sense, a Sakura kicking ass and at the same time thinking low about herself, i simply cant understand.
People like chyio baa, yamato saying that she's great and it's like it does not have an effect even Chyio-baa words didnt had an effect, i think this is the reason why she didnt meet up with Sakura again.
I think when he started drawing Sakura thinking low about herself it was when kishi decided to make NS canon, at least is how i think.
Because it makes him unable to make her heroish, he started to draw her as weak, as someome who doubt about herself.
I think for kishi to bring that Sakura from Sasori's battle back he has to end the pairing drama, he has to make NS canon.

About hinata, Naruto never made any statement about her, like he didnt make any compliment about her appearences or something like that.

So you're saying that she could have been very heroine person, but unfortunately, she doesn't feel confidence in herself because of situations she has placed on. I always like her and that fight really made me love her. A true definition of underdog battle, especially she has no strong background like other clans. Back to the topic, well I guess she starts feeling that because she believed she was ready but due to Kyuubi, she felt like she's always behind. Yamato was going to help her understand completely; not just love, but the fact that she always has been strong. Feel free to correct me.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

So you're saying that she could have been very heroine person, but unfortunately, she doesn't feel confidence in herself because of situations she has placed on. I always like her and that fight really made me love her. A true definition of underdog battle, especially she has no strong background like other clans. Back to the topic, well I guess she starts feeling that because she believed she was ready but due to Kyuubi, she felt like she's always behind. Yamato was going to help her understand completely; not just love, but the fact that she always has been strong. Feel free to correct me.

No, you're right but i cant understand, look at sakura on sasori's arc i really liked her she was cool and showed off all her skills but suddenly she becomes another Sakura on the bridge arc.
She didnt have any reason to think like that, she was giving Naruto confidence on that chapters, she was giving her best to protect him she helped him to get close to sasuke ( sasori) but suddenly she pulls out that, it does not make any sense.
All the chapters after bridge's arc enforced her low thoughts about herself, i think he cant make her kicking ass again until this stuff is resolved and he cut off everyone who tried to make her view different, that yamato's speech, Naruto being off the scene all the time that we would have that confrontation.
I think when Naruto makes her stop thinking low about herself she can become the heroic Sakura that we got before.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 January 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[Chatte]

To be honest, the Sakura from Sasori battle is the Sakura everyone liked. Even all the haters I come in contact to admit this.

[Tsubaki]

To be honest, the Sakura from Sasori battle is the Sakura everyone liked. Even all the haters I come in contact to admit this.

and unfortunately, we never saw that Sakura again!

[TouKen4Life3g]

No, you're right but i cant understand, look at sakura on sasori's arc i really liked her she was cool and showed off all her skills but suddenly she becomes another Sakura on the bridge arc.
She didnt have any reason to think like that, she was giving Naruto confidence on that chapters, she was giving her best to protect him she helped him to get close to sasuke ( sasori) but suddenly she pulls out that, it does not make any sense.
All the chapters after bridge's arc enforced her low thoughts about herself, i think he cant make her kicking ass again until this stuff is resolved and he cut off everyone who tried to make her view different, that yamato's speech, Naruto being off the scene all the time that we would have that confrontation.
I think when Naruto makes her stop thinking low about herself she can become the heroic Sakura that we got before.

I see what you mean. It would seem that if everything is quiet, she will be badass. But, if there's something that involves with her close friends, well she feel like she is a burden. She let emotions get the best (worst) of her. Yamato was going to clear that out but Kishi probably thought it was best for her to learn herself, which I'm in favor, but for how long is the matter of the question. Even so, minus Kages, I don't really see anyone taking her heroine spot. She got a major fight, really good development (can change to great or worst depending on the ending), and she does help here and there. I think Kishi may have thought that this is fair enough to keep her status, but people wants more or at least more involve, even though I don't get how Hinata got that much praise while manga continues to credit her a little, not yet counting 615. Now, it seems Kishi must play his card or else it feels like she never exist through the eyes of general audience. No matter what, she is a heroine but she must satisfy the needs of heroine to many.

To be honest, the Sakura from Sasori battle is the Sakura everyone liked. Even all the haters I come in contact to admit this.

Well, I like Sakura as part 1 progress. I didn't like her at first but hey, mission accomplished by Kishi. When part 2 started, I know I was glad that I like her. Sasori fight, well it's all history. She has shown the best and worst of her character. Her worst can be well bad, but her best can be really good. She has done stuff here and there, but I do think people wants her to get in a major battle once again. I'm all for this.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I see what you mean. It would seem that if everything is quiet, she will be badass. But, if there's something that involves with her close friends, well she feel like she is a burden. She let emotions get the best (worst) of her. Yamato was going to clear that out but Kishi probably thought it was best for her to learn herself, which I'm in favor, but for how long is the matter of the question. Even so, minus Kages, I don't really see anyone taking her heroine spot. She got a major fight, really good development (can change to great or worst depending on the ending), and she does help here and there. I think Kishi may have thought that this is fair enough to keep her status, but people wants more or at least more involve, even though I don't get how Hinata got that much praise while manga continues to credit her a little, not yet counting 615. Now, it seems Kishi must play his card or else it feels like she never exist through the eyes of general audience. No matter what, she is a heroine but she must satisfy the needs of heroine to many.


Well, I like Sakura as part 1 progress. I didn't like her at first but hey, mission accomplished by Kishi. When part 2 started, I know I was glad that I like her. Sasori fight, well it's all history. She has shown the best and worst of her character. Her worst can be well bad, but her best can be really good. She has done stuff here and there, but I do think people wants her to get in a major battle once again. I'm all for this.

I agree with everything, minus this bolded one i think she will not figure it by herself i think Naruto will make it because all the words of Chyio-baa, there was a lot of panels of her thinking about herself and it didnt even come in consideration.
And would not make much sense if she figure it for herself.
Because first she had no reason to become so down about herself, if NS werent to be canon at first place would be bad writing for Kishi because if pratically killed of Sakura and her heroine status because of this which envolves Naruto.
She want to help Naruto and do stuff but she thinks low about herself, i think Naruto will do something about it and she will be the heroine again.
If she figure out by herself she wont fall in love with Naruto in other words it will not have any romantic implications therefore would be bad she becoming heroine again by herself when we had almost like 350 chapters of her thinking she's useless for nothing.

Someome has to pull out the trigger and i think it will be Naruto.

@the part were she would figure out by herself should had happened on the confession arc and it didnt even happened just make her think down about herself again.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 January 2013 - 08:54 PM.