3406 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

He didnt change it, but Sakura has self doubts about herself and i think he will change that.

WHICH IS WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 05 January 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

@James I also want to add this: Masashi kishimoto wasn't originally planning on creating sasuke, and HINATA was just a villager, so I believe Kishi will make nArusaku the end game for sure, and yes if sasuke wasn't there in the story I believe things for naruto would've been much easier, in fact the manga wouldn't be the same and dramatic, but on the other hand hinata's presence in the manga or not does not affect the storyline at ALL, that being said hinata's insignificant to the story no matter how you slice it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@James I also want to add this: Masashi kishimoto wasn't originally planning on creating sasuke, and HINATA was just a villager, so I believe Kishi will make nArusaku the end game for sure, and yes if sasuke wasn't there in the story I believe things for naruto would've been much easier, in fact the manga wouldn't be the same and dramatic, but on the other hand hinata's presence in the manga or not does not affect the storyline at ALL, that being said hinata's insignificant to the story no matter how you slice it.

He's building a moment where Naruto will make Sakura stop her bad views about herself or we are screwed.

[TouKen4Life3g]

You know, where did you guys get the Hinata's part? I'm not denying it but that's interesting to know. All I know are the love interest and the rival.

[James S Cassidy]

God, James, you blew my mind! O_O
My deepest congrats, really!

I thank you. Everyday I try to find something new.

And not to be in between or anything, but I do agree on the fact that Sakura still thinks down of herself. And 540 proved that.
But maybe, the "we will be together" thing, will change that view of her.

Oh no doubt, but as I said she is a flux. She is constantly waving between seeing herself as helpful, to thinking down on herself. I have a strong belief that by now she understands herself and she knows what it all means. She feels down about Sasuke and I think she has come to accept that this...even though it involves her...is not her fight. So instead she does what she has been doing this whole time. Support Naruto no matter what.

Looking at Chapter 573, I don't see that insecure girl who thinks she is a burden. I see a confident women who has chosen a side and no matter what happens she is always there for him. She may realize that she can't do everything. She can't solve all the problems in the world and make it easier for him, but she is not useless. In retrospect, her and Naruto have a very similar idealism in thinking that every burden that plagues the ones they care about are theirs alone to bear. Both her and Naruto failed because they realized they couldn't do it alone. They had to accept the help. Which is also a common theme lately. Sakura has learned to accept what she is capable of, but most importantly I think she truly understands how important she is. All that is left is to deal with the one final hurdle.

As of now I don't see her as insecure. However, I can imagine how Kishi could have Sakura being pushed down again and thinking she is a burden again, but I challenge someone to wonder if that would be as forced as 615 was with Naruto's degradation. As we know, I care more about the quality

@James S

HOLY HOLY MACRONII James t-t-that post!!!! its AWSOME, man I know your capable of golden posts but GEEZ I did not expect something like this full of so much WINNN!!!!! I agree with everything you said and I stand by your belief!!

Thank you. Just keeping the dream alive.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Chatte]

I thank you. Everyday I try to find something new.



Oh no doubt, but as I said she is a flux. She is constantly waving between seeing herself as helpful, to thinking down on herself. I have a strong belief that by now she understands herself and she knows what it all means. She feels down about Sasuke and I think she has come to accept that this...even though it involves her...is not her fight. So instead she does what she has been doing this whole time. Support Naruto no matter what.

Looking at Chapter 573, I don't see that insecure girl who thinks she is a burden. I see a confident women who has chosen a side and no matter what happens she is always there for him. She may realize that she can't do everything. She can't solve all the problems in the world and make it easier for him, but she is not useless. In retrospect, her and Naruto have a very similar idealism in thinking that every burden that plagues the ones they care about are theirs alone to bear. Both her and Naruto failed because they realized they couldn't do it alone. They had to accept the help. Which is also a common theme lately. Sakura has learned to accept what she is capable of, but most importantly I think she truly understands how important she is. All that is left is to deal with the one final hurdle.

As of now I don't see her as insecure. However, I can imagine how Kishi could have Sakura being pushed down again and thinking she is a burden again, but I challenge someone to wonder if that would be as forced as 615 was with Naruto's degradation. As we know, I care more about the quality

True she is a flux. Probably she will need to drop that 540 attitude and mature, understand that, as Yamato said, it doesn't matter how big or small things that she does for Naruto are, but the way she feels about him.
Regarding the last part, with 615, totally agree. A degradation as big as this I haven't seen ever. Even with Pain, no matter how his principles were put to doubt, he still argued with Pain about wanting to bring peace, yet, with Neji's death he just... completely went down.
Hell, in Pein arc his master and teacher died and it wasn't this affected, yet, for Neji he is?
Not trying to say Neji is not important, but still, Jiraiya and Kakashi can't be compared with Neji.
But it was all for forcing that moment with Hinata, which, while I loved it on some part, I totally hated it on the other one.

[Codus N]

I believe I was the one who pointed that out, I stated that if Kishi didn't want it to be taking in a romantic light then Naruto should of hold Hinata's hand in a different manner, the problems was that when Reddragon posted that DA link and I re-read back the chapter, Kishi did make Naruto hold her hand lets say not in a full and mutual romantic way, (in other words they were not holding each others hand). Sadly after that someone asked me if it matter how Naruto holds her hand, but to my believe it was a big deal.

About your last point, I always wonder why NS fans where hated so much by the opposition and non pairing fans, people even says that NS fans are so confident and arrogant that they wish that the pairing gets crushed by Kishimoto. So after reading that part of your post I realized that our fandom is not hated because of the fan tards since the amount of them if really small compared to the most civil and mature behaving NS fans, now I'm positive that the NS fan club is hated because of the optimism and extreme confidence the fandom haves.

Agreed. I'll elaborate on that a little below.

Codus...the post was to point at the wrong of both parties: optimist and pessimist.

No offense, but even now you are still blaming the optimists for starting a fight and being too "arrogant." No, from the way I saw it, both were at fault. It wasn't even about difference of opinion either, it was the fact that people started to look down at others. Especially the pessimist who were causing fights among members, egging other members on, and being just as arrogant.

The big fight that occurred happened because the pessimist abandoned ship and the optimist wanted to stay on board. We then got riled up because the pessimist started throwing insults like you are doing now in much harsher tone saying that the optimist are arrogant and running on blind faith and not reading the manga. The optimist retaliate and defended themselves because they didn't like being called blind. They didn't like being put down like that and I can understand why. As you should too.

Most of the optimist stayed positive, but still understood the situation. They didn't deny the fact, only tried to reinforce that this chapter should not have wavered as many people as it did. We been through this hundreds of times with the NH fans about how all the facts are stacked in NS favor. Why should this chapter waver us now? And we know the facts and I have pointed them out. You talk about how the optimist were too arrogant and didn't understand the facts, but I saw the pessimist do the same thing. I saw them push all other facts out the window because this chapter wavered them.

We even have some people, I don't even know if they really were pessimist, egging the optimist on and shooting them down no matter what evidence was brought up. No matter what was said, they shot it down without even debating the facts at all. They just put them down just to see the reaction. So who's fault was it? Both. Both sides antagonized each other and caused the war. I am sure there was some optimist who were arrogant, but that didn't mean to retaliate with the same arrogance. That's bad form and not what we NS members really stood for. I understand the situation and why people freaked out, but we lost what really mattered about us as NS fans and the moral of this website.

For that we should all be ashamed.

And Codus, I want you to be aware that the bolded paragraph you typed here is what caused some of those fights in the first place. Sometimes you just got to say "I disagree, but I respect your opinion." You don't need to egg them on, you don't need to call people names like that. Instead of "arrogant," perhaps the better word would have been "overzealous." Because many of the pessimist were overzealous as well and jump ship at just the hint of NH.

All are to blame because we forgot who we were. It wasn't the optimist fault, it wasn't the pessimist fault. It was both. So I blamed both. I even thought about the posts I made before and realized that yes I made the mistake too.

This is not a blame game, my friend. This is me trying to help the members remember who they are and what they represent. We are all NS fans and we all should remember that. We don't need to fight amongst ourselves. We do enough fighting against the NH fans as is.

Ok, this is what you've said.

I have been reading the posts over and over and watching how people interact with each other. It is out of control. I have to say something. I want to say something because I am very close to leaving this forum myself until some of you start acting right. I don't mean everything has to be super serious, but some of you are taking things way too far and it is disgusting me to be apart of this website. I don't blame the mods because I know they are trying to keep things civil. I know how hard they are working, but each member has a responsibility too.

First of all, stop egging people on. Some of you are egging other members on and trying to manipulate people into losing their cool. That is called being a troll. It's not funny and the next person who tries I will report them. I will consider you starting trouble and I will report it.

Second, these matters of opinions are getting ridiculous. Yes, you have the privilege to voice your opinion whether in a positive or negative light, but some of you are playing this double standard card of criticizing people on the other side of the fence. EVERYONE has an opinion. EVERYONE has the PRIVILEGE to voice your opinion. It is not a right to have an opinion, it is a privilege. Which means you have responsibility to act right. To behave in a manner that reflects your ideas. If you want to be negative and feel this is the end, that's fine. You can think whatever you wish, but you have NO RIGHT to criticize those who wish to remain positive or want to keep a higher viewpoint. Likewise for the other side: You can remain positive and wish for something better, but as I said if the other people want to be negative let them. This is getting absolutely ridiculous watching people argue back and forth on this. Here is where some of you are saying "well, I am just voicing my opinion." I know you are, but you have to respect the other side too. You have to respect the people who disagree with you.

And stop with this "I don't want to hurt people's feelings" or some asinine tone of acting like you're superior and you know better. Even worse when I see people say "Well, you're bashing because you won't let me have my opinion." I don't see people discussing, I am seeing a bunch of crybabies who can't take criticism. I am seeing a bunch of crybabies argue back and forth on who is right and wrong.

Third, just because people want to be positive does NOT mean they are ignoring facts. It does NOT mean that people refuse to see the truth because what is the truth huh? You know as much of truth as the next person. Some things could be very significant and some things could be not. You don't know. No one knows, but Kishimoto. It has been shown that even he can take a situation that seems very significant and make it insignificant. It has been done before and he will do it again. We don't know what makes an importance in the story and what gets pushed aside. At best for now there is only speculation, not fact. Not yet anyway.

Fourth, people need to stop confusing bashing for criticism. When I made my post about Hinata, it was not some hate crime or some conspiracy theory about how I secretly want Hinata to die. I made my post to show how disappointed I was in thinking that Kishi could make her character more than just canon fodder. Halfstar, stop criticizing people who wanted more from her. You are purposely trying to piss people off like a troll and trying to insult their intelligence. That is member bashing and I will report you if you do that again. In fact, I will report anyone who calls another member delusional or makes a post about insulting their intelligence. I wanted Hinata to be more than canon fodder. I wanted her to be something more than just a throw away character. Kishi could have done that and he didn't. I voiced my disappointment. I don't hate Hinata, I am just disappointed on how Kishi uses her. It's NOT wrong to expect something different. In fact, I am disappointed in how every character has been treated lately. Not just Sakura, not just Hinata, not just Naruto, but every character.

You want to disagree with me, that's fine, but you do not insult me by attacking my intelligence or attacking my reasoning like that.

For once, I am being serious this time. For once, I am going to stand here and tell you all that this...this behavior is NOT what NSFC stands for. I am not talking about differences of opinion, I am talking about the behavior of the members in this thread. Yeah, I like to joke and have fun. Do not get me wrong, but some of you are taking it too far. Some of you want so much attention you are willing to make a fool of yourself to get it. All I want is for this forum to go back to the way it used to be. Before all this started. You know who you are and you know what you do. I am not telling you this to pick on you or to make you feel bad. I am telling you this so you can improve. So some of you can lighten up and calm down.

If some of you need to take time off away from the forum, do it.

I respected all of you. I respected every single one of you and in one chapter some of you betrayed everything you once stood for. No, not about pairing choice, but why we like this forum in the first place. It is not about who wins or loses or who is right or wrong, but to have fun. To enjoy Naruto as a manga and to exchange ideas on what we think is going to happen and what we like to happen. I hope some of you realize what you have done and try to better yourselves from it. We all make mistakes, but true ignorance is never learning from them.

When the next chapter comes out I am not going to be on here because I am afraid things will get worse around here, not better. I am afraid that it will be even more chaotic than now. That's why I am staying away until something different happens.

I'm sorry, but I don't see you pointing out the faults of both parties. In this post above, you're coming off as defending just one party: the "Optimists". Unless you point out which part of your post that shows your position as you say it is, I'm sticking to my statement.

And second, no I'm not egging people on. I'm pointing out something people have sorely missed. The lack of humility among our fandom. I will be blunt, our confidence has gotten to the point where we're losing our humility. And I think this makes us no better than the rivaling fandoms.

Third, regarding the bolded, that is very much true, BUT!! from what I've seen in this thread, some of the speculations seem to veer towards expectations, not speculations as some people think. Sure, you're speculating, but what you need to make sure that you're not coming off as if you're expecting them to happen. I am gonna stress this again. Expectations and speculations are two whole different things.

I'm willing to respect others' opinions too, but at the very least show some humility towards your opinions. I'd like to point everyone towards this very good article:

http://smallbusiness...-185252090.html

• They whip out something genuine.

Everyone is better than you at something. (Yes, that's true even for you.) Let them be better than you.

Too many people when they first meet engage in some form of kitten-measuring contest. Crude reference but one that instantly calls to mind a time you saw two alpha male master-of-the business-universe types whip out their figurative rulers. (Not literally, of course. I hope you haven't seen that.)

Don't try to win the "getting to know someone" competition. Try to lose. Be complimentary. Be impressed. Admit a failing or a weakness.

You don't have to disclose your darkest secrets. If the other person says, "We just purchased a larger facility," say, "That's awesome. I have to admit I'm jealous. We've wanted to move for a couple years but haven't been able to put together the financing. How did you pull it off?"

This is something that is even applicable to this forum. Even if we're all anonymous people here, as a community we need to learn how to be as graceful as possible towards each other. It's what makes this community stronger as time passes.

Fourth, I prefer not to throw insults either. But sometimes, people need to be taken down a peg. My whole "arrogant" comment is meant to let people know the meaning of humility. Bottom line, that whole post of mine is about people needing to learn to the meaning of humility.

Don, my whole stance on this matter is that some of our members doesn't seem to understand the meaning of humility. It also applies to our relationship with the rivaling fandoms. So what if this is a NH chapter?? that's fine by me. I don't mind, even we can be proven wrong. We've often painted the NH fans as arrogant pricks (not bashing, mods. I'm just saying), but that doesn't mean we have to be so as well. We need to show them we're the better men (and women ) by admitting our short-comings.

I think, that once, just this once, we need to admit to them that they may be right for once. That doesn't mean we have to give up on our pairing. We can always still strike back. It's like a basketball game or whatever, you meet one of the opposing players in the hallway, the best thing you can do is admit that you've lost this quarter, but you tell 'em off that it doesn't mean they've won just yet. It ain't over till the final whistle rings.

EDIT: Just read your latest posts.

Now, that's the kind of analysis I'm talking about. An analysis that doesn't seem so rushed, and extremely well done at that. I certainly am not being fair towards other members, by holding you in higher standards, but nevertheless, your posts are examples that people need to take after.

I also realize people can't brainstorm as well as you do, but at the very least, I think what people need to learn from people like you and several other great members, is that when making an analysis, is to try to be as thorough as possible.

Edited by Codus N, 05 January 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I thank you. Everyday I try to find something new.



Oh no doubt, but as I said she is a flux. She is constantly waving between seeing herself as helpful, to thinking down on herself. I have a strong belief that by now she understands herself and she knows what it all means. She feels down about Sasuke and I think she has come to accept that this...even though it involves her...is not her fight. So instead she does what she has been doing this whole time. Support Naruto no matter what.

Looking at Chapter 573, I don't see that insecure girl who thinks she is a burden. I see a confident women who has chosen a side and no matter what happens she is always there for him. She may realize that she can't do everything. She can't solve all the problems in the world and make it easier for him, but she is not useless. In retrospect, her and Naruto have a very similar idealism in thinking that every burden that plagues the ones they care about are theirs alone to bear. Both her and Naruto failed because they realized they couldn't do it alone. They had to accept the help. Which is also a common theme lately. Sakura has learned to accept what she is capable of, but most importantly I think she truly understands how important she is. All that is left is to deal with the one final hurdle.

As of now I don't see her as insecure. However, I can imagine how Kishi could have Sakura being pushed down again and thinking she is a burden again, but I challenge someone to wonder if that would be as forced as 615 was with Naruto's degradation. As we know, I care more about the quality

Thank you. Just keeping the dream alive.

This is the problem how many times we got panels of her doing this and in the end it's all her thinking down about herself again, i still think she has a bad view about herself unless a panel shows no more.
We know her confidence to be at Naruto's side since begining of part 2, we fighting together all those talkis but in the end turns out to be "i only do small things and etc.." in other hand we have Hinata who's character is already closed, just look at Hinata's problem was almost the same as Sakura 0 confidence about herself, until Naruto shows up and tells her that she's strong then she becomes what she's now on 615 the difference is that didnt had any romantic implications on that scene.

Sakura knows that she cant do anything like it already was stated so many times but still Naruto needs to talk with her about it.
Agree with you on the rest.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 January 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Codus: Let it go, man. Just let it go.

This is the problem how many times we got panels of her doing this and in the end it's all her thinking down again, i still think she had a bad view about herself unless a panel shows no more.

Chapter 573 That's it. I have explained this at least three times now.

Insecurity vs. conflictions.

I once again say this: Agree to disagree.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[Codus N]

Codus: Let it go, man. Just let it go.

*sigh* wanna take this somewhere else (PM)??

Edited by Codus N, 05 January 2013 - 05:08 PM.

[Chatte]

Can we not argue about these things? In the end we are people and we overreact or underreact(?). And when NH fans accuses NS fans for acting in a certain way I think, personally, they should shut up as they're doing the same with us.
Sometimes we're not better than the other side and that's it.
Let's move on!

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Codus: Let it go, man. Just let it go.



Chapter 573 That's it. I have explained this at least three times now.

Insecurity vs. conflictions.

I once again say this: Agree to disagree.

Well yeah we have to agree to disagree, she already has her mind when towards Naruto but about herself she has a bad view.

[James S Cassidy]

*sigh* wanna take this somewhere else (PM)??

No, I don't, really. Because it is over. Everything is fine now. We don't need to revert back to that. Okay? I said everything I need to say and mostly everyone got my points. We don't need to reopen that can of fish.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Chatte]

I really can't believe how Kishi's bad writing affected us all.
And don't argue with me it wasn't bad writing, because we all know that and I gave the most simple motive earlier on this thread.

[James S Cassidy]

I really can't believe how Kishi's bad writing affected us all.
And don't argue with me it wasn't bad writing, because we all know that and I gave the most simple motive earlier on this thread.

Oh no argument here, just want to say be prepared to see more of it.

I am already imagining the reactions the next chapter is going to bring. I am still deciding whether I want to be here for that or not.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[Codus N]

No, I don't, really. Because it is over. Everything is fine now. We don't need to revert back to that. Okay? I said everything I need to say and mostly everyone got my points. We don't need to reopen that can of fish.

You might see me as immature this way, but I don't feel like I've had everything I needed to say. I don't feel satisfied when when someone just walks away from an argument without reaching a consensus together.

Edited by Codus N, 05 January 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[Chatte]

Oh no argument here, just want to say be prepared to see more of it.

I was talking overall.
This War arc is the worse in my opinion.
Pein Arc was the absolute pinnacle in my opinion. The pshycological/morals behind everything. Excellent writing.
NH, I didn't kinda even cared back then...
I was more into what Naruto has to offer me from this stand-point.
And now I am really disappointed in Kishi, how he rushes everything.
Damn...

Edited by Chatte, 05 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[Don-kun]

Can we not argue about these things? In the end we are people and we overreact or underreact(?). And when NH fans accuses NS fans for acting in a certain way I think, personally, they should shut up as they're doing the same with us.
Sometimes we're not better than the other side and that's it.
Let's move on!

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I was talking overall.
This War arc is the baddest in my opinion.
Pein Arc was the absolute pinnacle in my opinion. The pshycological/morals behind everything. Excellent writing.
NH, I didn't kinda even cared back then...
I was more into what Naruto has to offer me from this stand-point.
And now I am really disappointed in Kishi, how he rushes everything.
Damn...

I don't think it's rushed, but more like he over-extended himself. Like I've said before, he introduced a HUGE amount of characters in a short amount of time and then plunged the world into a war. There was some build-up, but it was a small amount. If he only continued what he'd been doing since the Rescue Gaara arc, which were smaller conflicts with the Akatsuki, there may be lesser problems.

Like the idea I posted before, Naruto's conflict with the Akatsuki should take him to the other Shinobi countries, where we would meet the other characters we've been introduced (like the Kages and their bodyguards) one at a time and give ample screen time to other characters.

Another idea should be prolonging the war. If Kishi wants a war, it probably should take longer than two days, but he seems adamant to ending this war in two-three days.

Huh, I just contradicted myself. Well, you're right, it IS rushed, but also a case of over-extending himself.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 05 January 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Canadian_DJ]

Awsome posts everybody, keep it nice and clean, this site is finally like it used to be so lets not go back to thr gloomy days, man its nice to take a break from the manga eh? feels good to me.

@darkest I agree with you on your theory in general nicely done

@James Yeah lets ALL keep the dream alive