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#26141 Kagomaru

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:04 PM

 

It's not that NH is the best ship. It's more that Hinata is the best low-maintenance woman.

As I understand, EVERY sub-plot (romantic one included) was handled badly from Kishimoto in Italian Fandom opinion. Hinata wife of their avatar Naruto was just a petty satisfaction.

 

It's a trend more and more visible, actually. The reader doesn't ascend to hero (role model)'s greatness but turns down the hero to his pettiness normality.

It always comes down to typical beta-male infatuation(because why be with a capable and independent woman with her own  unique interests, opinions and personality when you can have a blank doll that willfully conforms herself into whatever you want without complaint) and misguided sympathy from the female fans.


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#26142 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 12:54 AM

It always comes down to typical beta-male infatuation(because why be with a capable and independent woman with her own  unique interests, opinions and personality when you can have a blank doll that willfully conforms herself into whatever you want without complaint) and misguided sympathy from the female fans.

 

Even if as I've heard it say that they wouldn't REALLY want someone like Hinata if they ended up dating them.



#26143 DrK

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:01 AM

So, basically they're saying in the context of the botched writing they're happy Naruto at least got with someone who cared for him, even if it's not necessarily their cup of tea.

 

In some regards, I can understand that. After 693 Sakura's feelings for Sasuke were too far gone. The guys who did the Mavcast talked about this, they were NaruSaku fans but one of them said that Sakura basically used Naruto, and added "At that point, I gave up on her. I wouldn't have wanted them to get together either."

The problem isn't the feelings for Sasuke, it's the way she expressed them. Her speech was all about her and what she wanted to happen. It had nothing to do with Naruto. So it makes the stuff she did in the land of Iron look really bad in retrospect. Hell it doesn't even make what she did in the land of Iron even make sense in retrospect. She should have at least acted like she would never tolerate him hurting the people she cares about. But it doesn't come off that way at all. It in addition to damaging the situation with her and Naruto, just makes her look really bad. And they haven't stopped this campaign to make her look pathetic since then.

 

That being said, he should still have been with Sakura. Just explain it away with something. Or at the very least, he shouldn't have been with Hinata. He should have been with Ino.


Edited by DrK, 01 March 2018 - 03:03 AM.


#26144 KClaws_2

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:41 AM

The problem isn't the feelings for Sasuke, it's the way she expressed them. Her speech was all about her and what she wanted to happen. It had nothing to do with Naruto. So it makes the stuff she did in the land of Iron look really bad in retrospect. Hell it doesn't even make what she did in the land of Iron even make sense in retrospect. She should have at least acted like she would never tolerate him hurting the people she cares about. But it doesn't come off that way at all. It in addition to damaging the situation with her and Naruto, just makes her look really bad. And they haven't stopped this campaign to make her look pathetic since then.

 

That being said, he should still have been with Sakura. Just explain it away with something. Or at the very least, he shouldn't have been with Hinata. He should have been with Ino.

Of course, this is typical of Kishimoto: Make things a LOT more complicated than they need to be. I honestly have never seen any other character in any other media be treated this way. When a character in another series is criticized, people usually work to improve the said character. Instead, Kishimoto went "Well, people don't like her, and instead of addressing their criticisms or proving them wrong, I'm just going to make Sakura a fan-girl again, cause hey!"

I was hoping after the genjutsu stabbing, Naruto vs Sasuke would reach a point where both were exhausted, Sakura wakes up and just SNAPS, chasing after them, arriving in time just before Sasuke would land a killing blow, and get some good hits in to further drive him to Naruto's level or have the two of them work together, declaring she loves Sasuke no longer. After the conclusion, Sakura heals both (whether they have their arms or not is up to you) but is silent on Sasuke realizing his mistakes. Later, Sasuke apologizes for mistreating Sakura, Sakura also apologizes for not being the friend he needed, and hopes he finds what he really needs. Sakura warns him to never go out of his way to hurt her friends again, and have Sasuke smirk that if Sakura had shown her more confident self from the beginning, he could have fallen for her. Sakura just says something to the effect of "In Your Dreams"

Afterwards, Naruto meets up with Sakura at the bench. Sakura apologizes to Naruto for putting him through so much trouble for her, and somehow they bring up both confessions. There, you can have Sakura tell him that she meant what she said at the Land of Iron, but she was still uncertain about how she felt about Sasuke, and what she said in 693 was a lie in hopes she could stop them from fighting. After that, well, WE get what we want.

There's probably a lot of flaws with this premise, but it does highlight the problems with both Hinata and Sakura confessions to Naruto: THERE WAS NO FOLLOW THROUGH. Hinata confesses to Naruto, and he never talks to her again until months after during the war (well, I ASSUME it's months. Timeline wasn't crystal clear). Sakura does that whole muddy confession, and Naruto and Sakura just pretend it never happened. We never get a clear answer on whether or not it was a complete lie, and the Kushina stuff afterwards didn't help the situation any. He just kept hammering away at it, because it kept people interested.



#26145 DrK

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:56 AM

I was hoping after the genjutsu stabbing, Naruto vs Sasuke would reach a point where both were exhausted, Sakura wakes up and just SNAPS, chasing after them, arriving in time just before Sasuke would land a killing blow, and get some good hits in to further drive him to Naruto's level or have the two of them work together, declaring she loves Sasuke no longer. After the conclusion, Sakura heals both (whether they have their arms or not is up to you) but is silent on Sasuke realizing his mistakes. Later, Sasuke apologizes for mistreating Sakura, Sakura also apologizes for not being the friend he needed, and hopes he finds what he really needs. Sakura warns him to never go out of his way to hurt her friends again, and have Sasuke smirk that if Sakura had shown her more confident self from the beginning, he could have fallen for her. Sakura just says something to the effect of "In Your Dreams"

Afterwards, Naruto meets up with Sakura at the bench. Sakura apologizes to Naruto for putting him through so much trouble for her, and somehow they bring up both confessions. There, you can have Sakura tell him that she meant what she said at the Land of Iron, but she was still uncertain about how she felt about Sasuke, and what she said in 693 was a lie in hopes she could stop them from fighting. After that, well, WE get what we want.

If 693 has to happen, I like that scenario.

 

I wrote a story where Sakura was so affected by the genjutsu that she couldn't even look at Sasuke anymore. She was really traumatized because she thought Sasuke had actually killed her, so she didn't want anything to do with him. She certainly didn't want to heal him. So she doesn't. She only heals Naruto. Sasuke says it's fine, that's what he deserves. Just give the eye to Kakashi. But Naruto is suffering over it. And Sakura finds that she can't bring herself to put him through the pain of watching his best friend die. So she does heal him. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if she loved Sasuke or not, since she can't even look at him anymore. But she did love Naruto.

 

Pretty much anything would have made more sense than what they did.



#26146 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 03:42 PM

If 693 has to happen, I like that scenario.

 

I wrote a story where Sakura was so affected by the genjutsu that she couldn't even look at Sasuke anymore. She was really traumatized because she thought Sasuke had actually killed her, so she didn't want anything to do with him. She certainly didn't want to heal him. So she doesn't. She only heals Naruto. Sasuke says it's fine, that's what he deserves. Just give the eye to Kakashi. But Naruto is suffering over it. And Sakura finds that she can't bring herself to put him through the pain of watching his best friend die. So she does heal him. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if she loved Sasuke or not, since she can't even look at him anymore. But she did love Naruto.

 

Pretty much anything would have made more sense than what they did.

 

Dude, I'd like to say you nailed it, but you usually have some good point about it as well.



#26147 Phantom_999

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 06:21 PM

At least she never gave up on her feelings. It was so great how she never gave up on her feelings!

 

Yes a woman can never give up her feelings because that makes her a slut, but a man can give up his feelings no problem because the girl that he fourght for and bled for, protected and gave up his own happiness for is nothing but a prize to be won from his rival!!! :zaru:

 

"Hinata the first" Movie's logic :lmao:


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#26148 DrK

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 06:28 PM

 

Yes a woman can never give up her feelings because that makes her a slut, but a man can give up his feelings no problem because the girl that he fourght for and bled for, protected and gave up his own happiness for is nothing but a prize to be won from his rival!!! :zaru:

Yeah, you never hear those people say. "It was great how Sakura never gave up on her feelings, but it was TERRIBLE how Naruto did so! How could he do that? He acted like Sakura was so important to him. What a scumbag."

 

Double standards.



#26149 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 07:21 PM

It always comes down to typical beta-male infatuation(because why be with a capable and independent woman with her own  unique interests, opinions and personality when you can have a blank doll that willfully conforms herself into whatever you want without complaint) and misguided sympathy from the female fans.

And yet if such a girl were like that with them in real life, I'd bet a lot of them would quickly grow tired and bored of her and want to get away from her as soon as possible, and that's assuming they even give her a chance after being creeped out by her stalking and such.

 

Yeah, you never hear those people say. "It was great how Sakura never gave up on her feelings, but it was TERRIBLE how Naruto did so! How could he do that? He acted like Sakura was so important to him. What a scumbag."

 

Double standards.

You never hear them complain about how "terrible" a woman Ino is for moving on from Sasuke and being with Sai either.

Or Lee and moving on from Sakura.

No, it's ONLY Sakura who is "terrible" if she dares to move on from Sasuke.

Heck, Hinatatas could kick Boruto's dad to the curb, walk out of the family, then go around and whore herself out to dozens of men and her blind fan base wouldn't care. Instead, they would heap endless praise on her for how so many men are sooooo attracted to her and crap.


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#26150 DrK

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 07:29 PM

Heck, Hinatatas could kick Boruto's dad to the curb, walk out of the family, then go around and whore herself out to dozens of men and her blind fan base wouldn't care. Instead, they would heap endless praise on her for how so many men are sooooo attracted to her and crap.

Eh, no, I'm pretty sure they would hate her if she did that. That is like, the one thing that she is not allowed to do. She can't love anyone other than Naruto. It was that slavish, unconditional devotion from afar that people found so appealing. I feel like it's not really negotiable.

 

Someone like Sakura takes so much effort. I mean kitten, not only does she not like you, she even likes someone else, man. That's so much work. It's not worth it. Who cares if you like her pink hair and fiery spirit? There's this shy girl over here who likes you automatically. You need to be with her. You're being an idiot. Who cares if your mother said not to be with a weird shy girl? That weird shy girl likes you. The pink girl doesn't. So you are being stupid for wasting your time on that pink girl. It doesn't matter HOW much you like that pink girl. It'll never be worth it. Because the shy girl is a ready to eat meal.


Edited by DrK, 01 March 2018 - 08:02 PM.


#26151 Kagomaru

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:13 PM

Eh, no, I'm pretty sure they would hate her if she did that. That is like, the one thing that she is not allowed to do. She can't love anyone other than Naruto. It was that slavish, unconditional devotion from afar that people found so appealing. I feel like it's not really negotiable.

 

Someone like Sakura takes so much effort. I mean kitten, not only does she not like you, she even likes someone else, man. That's so much work. It's not worth it. Who cares if you like her pink hair and fiery spirit? There's this shy girl over here who likes you automatically. You need to be with her. You're being an idiot. Who cares if your mother said not to be with a weird shy girl? That weird shy girl likes you. The pink girl doesn't. So you are being stupid for wasting your time on that pink girl. It doesn't matter HOW much you like that pink girl. It'll never be worth it. Because the shy girl is a ready to eat meal.

I reiterate: That projected mentality from the audience that Naruto should just settle for whoever comes along and give up on his heart's desire is not only egregious but fundamentally flawed from a realistic perspective. It seriously makes me want to ask these "fans" if they automatically went out with the first person that showed an interest in them, regardless of the nature of their relationship, compatibility, personal preferences, etc.


Edited by Kagomaru, 01 March 2018 - 08:14 PM.

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#26152 DrK

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 08:29 PM

I reiterate: That projected mentality from the audience that Naruto should just settle for whoever comes along and give up on his heart's desire is not only egregious but fundamentally flawed from a realistic perspective. It seriously makes me want to ask these "fans" if they automatically went out with the first person that showed an interest in them, regardless of the nature of their relationship, compatibility, personal preferences, etc.

It's that THEY like Hinata. And they probably don't like Sakura.

 

Like it doesn't matter what I think about Sakura. It doesn't matter if YOU don't like Sakura. It doesn't matter if no one likes her, because Naruto does. So he won't be happy without Sakura. And he wasn't.

 

Love is not something where you can compromise. I guess we're meant to feel like Sakura felt this way too. She will only be happy with Sasuke, so she has to pursue that at all costs. But the problems with that are, she was not happy with Sasuke, like at all, she was shown to be happy with Naruto, and also Naruto is the main character. So the omnipotence of the author should have been used to have her fall in love with Naruto at some point. So that Naruto can be happy. The hopes and dreams of Naruto supercede the hopes and dreams of Sakura, especially in the case that this particular desire of Sakura's has been undermined dozens of times and presented as something horrible.


Edited by DrK, 01 March 2018 - 08:30 PM.


#26153 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 01:33 AM

It's that THEY like Hinata. And they probably don't like Sakura.

 

Like it doesn't matter what I think about Sakura. It doesn't matter if YOU don't like Sakura. It doesn't matter if no one likes her, because Naruto does. So he won't be happy without Sakura. And he wasn't.

 

Love is not something where you can compromise. I guess we're meant to feel like Sakura felt this way too. She will only be happy with Sasuke, so she has to pursue that at all costs. But the problems with that are, she was not happy with Sasuke, like at all, she was shown to be happy with Naruto, and also Naruto is the main character. So the omnipotence of the author should have been used to have her fall in love with Naruto at some point. So that Naruto can be happy. The hopes and dreams of Naruto supercede the hopes and dreams of Sakura, especially in the case that this particular desire of Sakura's has been undermined dozens of times and presented as something horrible.

 

*drops the mike for you* Ta-dah!



#26154 Yyubie

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:37 PM

Bit out of topic , but this news is bit weird for  me

https://gematsu.com/...g-west-april-26

They re releasing storm trilogy on switch console , but digital only version .... no physical.

Instantly in my mind .... yeah that is of course to feed and keep boruto franchise alive.


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#26155 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:09 PM

Bit out of topic , but this news is bit weird for  me

https://gematsu.com/...g-west-april-26

They re releasing storm trilogy on switch console , but digital only version .... no physical.

Instantly in my mind .... yeah that is of course to feed and keep boruto franchise alive.

 

Most likely that, but it also could be Nintendo wanted to hav e them available for the Switch and also their fanbase. But I still see it possibly as a means to keep Boruto afloat, even if it still has had 40+ episodes for some raisins.



#26156 Derock

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:16 PM

Why couldn't they bring back the Clash of Ninja series? Never believed that they brought in the Ultimate Ninja series to a Nintendo console when it was initially a Sony-only game before the Storm series.


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#26157 DrK

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:42 PM

Bit out of topic , but this news is bit weird for  me

https://gematsu.com/...g-west-april-26

They re releasing storm trilogy on switch console , but digital only version .... no physical.

Instantly in my mind .... yeah that is of course to feed and keep boruto franchise alive.

That link actually says that it's digital only, but only outside Japan.

 

So their Western Hinata-fueled market is clearly doing great for them.



#26158 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 08:31 AM

Why couldn't they bring back the Clash of Ninja series? Never believed that they brought in the Ultimate Ninja series to a Nintendo console when it was initially a Sony-only game before the Storm series.

 

Yeah, I guess it could be because Clash of Ninja tanked?



#26159 milan kyuubi

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Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:47 PM

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#26160 James S Cassidy

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 06:23 PM

No matter the canon, the fanbase keeps the pairing strong. This is something Nh will never have.


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