4869 replies to this topic

[Froot]

As much as I love ShikaTema, I doubt it'll happen. I'm thinking Kishi would only canonize a pairing that's vital to the plot. (I.e. NOT NaruHina, since Hinata's minor and has had an insignificant place in the story thus far.)

For example... NaruSaku, because only through their bond of love can they forge on and change the shinobi world...

Well, maybe that's a stretch, but in no way do I see SasuSaku being the least bit important; If anything, it's detrimental to the plot. A skilled, important Konoha Kuniochi ends up with a criminal intent on destroying her village? I... don't think so.

But catsi, that is an interesting point you bring up. Not necessarily about the chapter title: I agree with Jenskott, it may just be because Kishi didn't want to reuse a chapter name. But no, you are right about Sakura's confession getting more attention. Like Hinata's confession was only witnessed by Naruto and Hinata - And maybe Ko - And was a little more personal, whereas Sakura's was witnessed by... Pretty much some of the most important characters in the manga. Naruto, Kakashi, Yamato, and Sai. Plus two other important minors, Kiba and Lee. (Though to this day I still do not see the purpose for Lee being there.)

And as has been said various times, Sakura's confession was left ambiguous for a reason.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Heres a curious point of discussion that may interest everyone.

Now we know Hinata has confessed. And while the moment was a clear moment for Hinata herself it is clear her feelings were genuine.

We know Sakura has also confessed, And while the moment was a clear NaruSaku moment, Sakuras feelings remain conflicted due to her former love for Sasuke.

Now your asking at this point. So what Catsi? We allready know this.

What i find interesitng and havent seen discussed yet is this. The title of the two chapters in question.

Chapter 437 entitled Confession

Chapter 469 entitled Sakuras confession

An important moment for Hinata reduced to a single word.

Where as an equally important moment for Sakura though is given a personal touch by directly referring to the person about whom the moment is made for. IE Sakura and her confession.

This strikes me as particularly telling especially given the impact Hinatas confession is supposed to have and the supposed ambiguity or even outright falsehood Sakuras confession is supposed to have.

discuss

Well maybe if I am wrong, but I am ascertain that Hinata's Confession is just a PLOT DEVICE.
Without any occurance of any conclusion, it will stay as a plot device.

Comparing it to Sakura, Naruto was made to realize that things aren't the way it was before. Eventough Naruto's reaction is kinda in denial/surprised, I will assumed that "Mr. Never give up guy" will occur.


@Froot
I think the purpose of Kiba and Lee there, are to to kinda make a flashback point where the POAL is made. I remember these two (Kiba and Lee) show their reactions when Naruto made the POAL.

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 13 December 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[Froot]

Ah, that's true... Lee was there for the PoaL, wasn't he. That might be useful later. Thank you

[jinsterr]

If Kishi made SasuSaku happen, he might as well have named the manga "SASUKE" as opposed to "NARUTO".

And personally, I don't think that's fair. Sasuke gets his revenge, retribution (this is assuming Kishimoto will use the "Sasuke-redeeming" card, which I doubt) AND he also gets the girl in the end? Whereas Naruto has gone through such lengths to get Sasuke back, both for Sakura and for his sake and gets squat for his efforts? I don't think so.

Sasuke, in my opinion, has lost a lot of redeeming qualities already. And if he went ahead and did SasuSaku, there'd be be 300+ chapters of development between Naruto and Sakura down the drain. So a SS ending, to me, seems just as unlikely to happen as NH.

NaruHina doesn't exactly have any development for it to be remotely genuine. Naruto doesn't feel that way towards Hinata, at all. For NH to be even the slightest bit possible and realistic, Kishimoto would have to had at least another 300+ chapters of development for that pair and top it over NaruSaku--which I am positive he won't do. If he had wanted a NH/SS ending... Kishimoto would have made it consistent in the story.

Sasuke's character has never been about getting together with Sakura. He doesn't even feel that way about her. Romance or anything of the like seems the last thing on Sasuke's mind, so I doubt if Sakura comes waltzing back into his life he'd automatically start feeling butterflies and turn 180 on his character. That'd be throwing over 300+ chapters of his character development down the drain.

Therefore, I can only see NaruSaku happening, because it's a development that's been consistent from the beginning to the recent chapters; we've seen Naruto's feelings for Sakura and Sakura's growing feelings for him in return. We've seen their relationship and their bond together and know how strong and deep it is. We know that Naruto would do absolutely anything for Sakura and vise versa. They've always been there for one another; have always supported and protected the other. Naruto makes Sakura smile; makes her laugh and reassures her. Sakura understands his problems, has seen him at his lowest and highest and has become fiercely protective of him--to the point where she'd rather him hate, rather she'd take the burdens from his hands onto hers, than put him in danger or hurt him the way she has one more time.

To me, Sakura's confession has always been genuine. Just because you also have lingering feelings for another, it doesn't make the love you have right now any less true. And like Sai said. Sakura chose Naruto. Sakura has made her choice about Sasuke, despite what she may still feel about him. And Sakura doesn't strike me as a character who'd go back on her word once she puts her mind to it.

I can't see her saying something like, "I'm the one who hurt him the most. I don't want to make any more mistakes" and then doing the complete opposite.

[Nate River]

The SasuSaku supporters and NaruHina are joining forces! A recent debate said that "two pairings are better than one", which I think is utter hogwash. I don't think it's the quantity, but the quality. I know, kinda cheesy but it's true. Plus, everyone's forgetting about Karin and Kiba. But personally, I kinda like the SuiKa interactions better. Reminds me of NaruSaku (girl beats up guy in comedic fashion )

Big deal. That's been true for many years.

That's why the rampant accusations of side-shipping by NaruSaku fans when Karin was introduced were so hilarious. They'd been side-shipping since Part 1.

[Froot]

Well, with all the insightful posts, I think we can agree; NaruSaku is the only main pairing that's important plot-wise.

[ciardha]

To me, Sakura's confession has always been genuine. Just because you also have lingering feelings for another, it doesn't make the love you have right now any less true. And like Sai said. Sakura chose Naruto. Sakura has made her choice about Sasuke, despite what she may still feel about him. And Sakura doesn't strike me as a character who'd go back on her word once she puts her mind to it.

I can't see her saying something like, "I'm the one who hurt him the most. I don't want to make any more mistakes" and then doing the complete opposite.

Exactly. Sai further reinforced that Sakura's confession was her real feelings of love for Naruto, that she's moved on from Sasuke and chosen Naruto

Kishimoto also had Lee witness Sakura's confession to Naruto because he's in love with Sakura and made a confession to her. (Sakura and Naruto had basically identical reactions to Lee's and Hinata's confessions to them, and both Hinata and Lee got hurt shortly after their confession, and neither Naruto or Sakura addressed Hinata and Lee's confession afterward. Lee is to Sakura what Hinata is to Naruto. ) Apparently though Kishimoto is saying, unlike Hinata, Lee needed more than witnessing Sakura romantically embracing Naruto in front of the whole village to understand Sakura is in love with Naruto.

Edited by ciardha, 13 December 2009 - 07:38 PM.

[jinsterr]

Exactly. Sai further reinforced that Sakura's confession was her real feelings of love for Naruto, that she's moved on from Sasuke and chosen Naruto

Kishimoto also had Lee witness Sakura's confession to Naruto because he's in love with Sakura and made a confession to her. (Sakura and Naruto had basically identical reactions to Lee's and Hinata's confessions to them, and both Hinata and Lee got hurt shortly after their confession, and neither Naruto or Sakura addressed Hinata and Lee's confession afterward. Lee is to Sakura what Hinata is to Naruto. ) Apparently though Kishimoto is saying, unlike Hinata, Lee needed more than witnessing Sakura romantically embracing Naruto in front of the whole village to understand Sakura is in love with Naruto.

I agree.

Not to mention Sakura to Sasuke is like Hinata is to Naruto and Lee to Sakura. So they're all pretty much in the same boat with the exception of NaruSaku because it's actually reciprocated in both ends :3

[Nick Soapdish]

I think of this like a long car drive. To most of us, it is obvious that the story is on the road to NaruSaku. That doesn't mean the car will get there. Maybe a bridge is down, or Kishi decides to take an off-ramp. But right now, the car is aimed at that destination.

It is even possible that the car would turn around, and take the path to Hinata. But this possibility has been addressed: we would need a reason for the car to turn around (why not Sakura) and the extra distance the car needs to drive to Hinata (development).

What is frustrating are the NH and SS shippers who, instead of discussing how to get the car to take the off-ramp that leads to their homes, insist that the car is still driving towards NH/SS. (Or deliberately trying to steer the car into oncoming traffic to stop the car from reaching NS. ) There is nothing wrong with driving the car to NH or SS, just that the car passed the easy exits a few hundred chapters ago.

Hey, we just had to pull off and get more coffee and snacks.

Donut, don't double-post. And yes, I've already read that essay. Most people have.

NH and SS have been ''allies'' for a while now. According to them, the two can't happen without each other. If SS happens, then NH is sure to happen, and vice versa, like some corny fanfic where everyone gets together



Which is interesting... Since now NH and SS fans call Naruto the ''rebound guy,'' - because I don't know, Sakura loves him I guess - wouldn't that make Hinata the rebound too, since Sakura got stuck with Sasuke and Naruto's got nobody?

Anyways, I don't think SuiKarin has any chance. Yes, she hits him, but there's no love in those hits, unlike NaruSaku's, know what I mean? Karin and Suigetsu don't have anything romantic between them. So I'm pulling for SasuKarin.

Well, some of the fans are side-shipping and some think that they have to go together or help each other out, but it's not universal. There are also fans that think they aren't tied to each other. I don't care much about SasuKarin, but I think that SasuKarin happening is completely independent of whether NaruSaku happens.

The arguments that I don't quite get is that NaruSaku can't happen if Sasuke survives. Sure, a lot of NaruSaku fans expect Sasuke to die, but a lot of us are rooting for him to come back (for me, it depends on the how) and others are saying that NaruSaku is virtually canon already (despite Sasuke surviving).

Or (from dual-shippers), that it's completely unrealistic to expect somebody that has loved Sasuke for as long as Sakura has and been willing to make sacrifices like she has to ever fall out of love. Naruto is in that same boat and is paddling even harder.

Edited by Nick Soapdish, 13 December 2009 - 09:22 PM.

[RedDelicious]

As much as I love ShikaTema, I doubt it'll happen. I'm thinking Kishi would only canonize a pairing that's vital to the plot. (I.e. NOT NaruHina, since Hinata's minor and has had an insignificant place in the story thus far.)

Noooooo! ShikaTema must happen!
On a more serious note, I think it could become cannon (they are seen on a date) without any development being shown (so the manga wouldn't be slowed down). All that would be happening in the background (like the biyearly chunin exams), when Naruto wasn't around. I could see Naruto talking to Shikamaru (for other reasons), and Shika being embarassed that he has to leave for a date.

For some reason, I think it would be a hoot for Naruto to get dating advice from Shika, the original bored slacker ninja.

Edited by RedDelicious, 13 December 2009 - 10:45 PM.

[catsi563]

It very well may happen ironically enough.

Shikamaru has allread gotten life advise from Shikaku about bossy women and why theyre gentle with the men they love, and how men cant live with out women.

Similar advise may be in the offing from Shika to Naruto in the same vein.

[Froot]

Shikaku bestowed the advice ''Even the harshest of women can be gentle to the man she loves,'' so Shikamaru can get with Sai and figure something out

[RedDelicious]

Shikaku bestowed the advice ''Even the harshest of women can be gentle to the man she loves,'' so Shikamaru can get with Sai and figure something out

If Sai received this advice, and then passed it along, it would bring back some humor too.

Sai (turning from Naruto to look at Sakura): "And you are the harshest woman I know."
(Sakura clenches fist...)

[Derock]

Noooooo! ShikaTema must happen!
On a more serious note, I think it could become cannon (they are seen on a date) without any development being shown (so the manga wouldn't be slowed down). All that would be happening in the background (like the biyearly chunin exams), when Naruto wasn't around. I could see Naruto talking to Shikamaru (for other reasons), and Shika being embarassed that he has to leave for a date.

For some reason, I think it would be a hoot for Naruto to get dating advice from Shika, the original bored slacker ninja.

Not really, if they were on a date, we should had seen both of them blushed when the word was mentioned by Naruto. More importantly, both are serious of doing their jobs instead of becoming an item as a couple. It would have been better for ShikaTema to become the Beta couple of the series if Temari appear more instead of her over 100 chapters absence.

[Froot]

If Sai received this advice, and then passed it along, it would bring back some humor too.

Sai (turning from Naruto to look at Sakura): "And you are the harshest woman I know."
(Sakura clenches fist...)

Red, I love that! *Goes and draws*

Concerning ShikaTema... We may get an ambiguous glance of them on a date. Like, it's implied that they're a couple but not stated directly.

If it's true that Kishi will leave Naruto with no directly designated pairings, I at least see him making implications towards the... ''Future of Konoha,'' if you will... the ''Next Generation...''

()

[RedDelicious]

Not really, if they were on a date, we should had seen both of them blushed when the word was mentioned by Naruto. More importantly, both are serious of doing their jobs instead of becoming an item as a couple. It would have been better for ShikaTema to become the Beta couple of the series if Temari appear more instead of her over 100 chapters absence.

I wasn't implying that they have already been on a date. Sheesh.
I used the word "could" because it hasn't happened.

I meant in future chapters, it could happen, that at some point the
serious work changes to a date (behind the scenes). I was pointing out
that those two have had a lot of interaction, despite Naruto
(or the readers) not being present to see it.

[TwilightLink20xx]

Hey guys, just popping in with a quick update on the going-ons over at the Viz board. We've seen a couple of flamers/trolls here and there, but the overall debate side of the board has calmed back down. One of the users placed a poll up to gage the amount of supporters, and I'm still curious about the demographic of the board, so I bumped the topic to try to get more people to see it, I really, really want to know what the demographic of it is, because it seems to actually be more slanted towards NaruSaku these days, lol!

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

@TL
Oh.. We must be careful/vigilant.

Anyways guys, what do you think when Sai told Naruto that "because she loves him(referring to Sasuke). she does want to sink him lowe and etc..." , really denotes Romantic Feelings?

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 14 December 2009 - 07:00 AM.

[Jenskott]

The arguments that I don't quite get is that NaruSaku can't happen if Sasuke survives. Sure, a lot of NaruSaku fans expect Sasuke to die, but a lot of us are rooting for him to come back (for me, it depends on the how) and others are saying that NaruSaku is virtually canon already (despite Sasuke surviving).

You know, I have never understood that either, Nick.

Labeling Sakura like an abuser implies ignoring the shonen manga rules and tropes. But stating NS can't happen if Sasuke survives or NS only got development because Sasuke left is ignoring the most basic storytelling rules. And it implies such a willful blindness or ignorance I would rather not credit it.

Kishimoto controls utterly EVERYTHING what happens in his world. If he want something -realistically or unrealistically- happens, it WILL happen.

Moreover, what we are being told in the last chapters is Sakura loves Naruto and has chosen him over Sasuke. So the manga has trumped that argument -again-.

Not really, if they were on a date, we should had seen both of them blushed when the word was mentioned by Naruto. More importantly, both are serious of doing their jobs instead of becoming an item as a couple. It would have been better for ShikaTema to become the Beta couple of the series if Temari appear more instead of her over 100 chapters absence.

Derock, do you remember what happened when Kakashi ran into Asuma and Kurenai before the timeskip? There were no blushing back then, either. And even there was a bit of annoyance.

I DO know they weren't dating in that chapter. What I'm telling is there are plenty scenes displaying they appreciate each other and like spending time together. And those scenes can be used plotwise for building up one relationship. If one day Shikamaru and Temari start dating, it will not come out from nowhere (unlike Naruto and Hinata, since Naruto never thinks of Hinata and they have never spent time together, onscreen or offscreen).

I have no troubles with ShikaIno or ShikaShiho. But in my opinion there are more hints and onscreen evidence for TemaShika that for ShikaIno. And Shiho is another meek girl Shikamaru barely knows and pays no attention to. I doubt we will see her again.

Okay, that is enough ranting.

Anyways guys, what do you think when Sai told Naruto that "because she loves him(referring to Sasuke). she does want to sink him lowe and etc...", really denotes Romantic Feelings?

Perhaps. But not necessarily so. She may love him like a friend and ex-teammate. But given that she had a crush on him, it's possible she keeps some lingering feelings towards him. I think it's too soon to tell, and I don't want behaving like a blind shipper, so I won't deny either of those possibilities.

The important thing to me is she has confessed she loves Naruto and she has chosen him over Sasuke. Hence, it's silly declaring NS dead, not matter what she may feel towards Sasuke.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

@TL
Oh.. We must be careful/vigilant.

Anyways guys, what do you think when Sai told Naruto that "because she loves him(referring to Sasuke). she does want to sink him lowe and etc..." , really denotes Romantic Feelings?

Well, Pinky (can I call you Pinky?), I think Sakura has some lingering romantic feelings for Sasuke, yet we've also seen how her feelings are much more platonic in most cases, in spite of how she's had her heart broken by him so many times. After all, Sakura still does likely have some feelings for Sasuke, regardless of how she loves Naruto as well. And I think in the end, in spite of those lingering feelings, she knows she's gotta do what's gotta be done, in order to protect the Leaf Village as well as perserve the last bit of decency Sasuke has, and to protect Naruto from him.

Bryon

EDIT: Damn, I was beaten to the punch! XD

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 14 December 2009 - 08:05 AM.