322 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not debating what happened in the chapter itself. I'm basically saying that the "SS is dead" talk is the same thing the other pairings did that were whined about. Which sinks us to their level. Which I guess I mistakenly thought we were better than.

I understand that even if we are right, it's not gentlemen to celebrate, but sometimes we need to celebrate.

When I mean by celebrate is not "rub it in the other guy's faces," but "We tried our hardest, we stuck by the facts, and we were told we were right."

Facts are facts whether you agree or disagree. I myself am only celebrating that my theory was correct when I said that Sasuke told Sakura that she had to prove her "loyalty."

Sasuke: "Me? I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid." (Yeah I know Jack Sparrow)

The fact is, SasuSaku is pretty much dead. There is nothing more to say about it. It's not bashing, it's a fact.

[ShippudenGirl]

i think i would enjoy a Kakashi, Sakura, and Naruto training session : )

Me too! Like the old days, except Sakura wouldn't be all focused on Sasuke, I think it be some nice bonding since Kakashi neglected Sakura in training on Part 1, I think it's the least he could do ;D maybe some NS moments too?

[Arabian Maiden]

the cover confirms Sakuras honesty in her confession thats for sure. who i am and who my friends are change like the clouds as time goes by.
it shows she has changed and so has everyone else as well, and she knows it.
her hesitation when shes standing over karin is only momentary as she has a moment of clarity, if she can kill Sasuke it all ends. but in a shocker Karin warns her off. I am offically sold that karins going to be crucial in the end. She warned Sakura and almost in time to save her.

Agree and love what you wrote!

[James S Cassidy]

Agree and love what you wrote!

Under the sky so blue.....

[Nate River]

I understand that even if we are right, it's not gentlemen to celebrate, but sometimes we need to celebrate.

When I mean by celebrate is not "rub it in the other guy's faces," but "We tried our hardest, we stuck by the facts, and we were told we were right."

Facts are facts whether you agree or disagree. I myself am only celebrating that my theory was correct when I said that Sasuke told Sakura that she had to prove her "loyalty."

Sasuke: "Me? I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid." (Yeah I know Jack Sparrow)

The fact is, SasuSaku is pretty much dead. There is nothing more to say about it. It's not bashing, it's a fact.

I think everyone is missing his point It's not about celebrating per se...though my personal belief is that one shouldn't celebrate a victory that hasn't decisevly been achieved yet.

It's the fact that just one chapter ago when people were freaking out about the apparent SasuSaku tilt they were also complaining about how the SasuSaku fans would be dancing around and saying their pairing is cannong, NaruSaku is dead, and so on.

And they were doing this despite the fact that not 10 chapters ago we were dancing around proclaiming NS canon and the death of SasuSaku, and then do so yet again, one chapter after complaining about all the crap the SasuSaku fans were doing. This is in addition to things like people constantly saying "it's dead, don't understand why they don't give up" when they know full well they wouldn't do so for NaruSaku.

Apprently without realizing the irony or hyprocrisy of it all.....

It makes fandoms (all of us in general) look like the purpose of our existance is not to support our pairing, but to defeat and shove it up the collective rear ends of opposing fandoms.

[Whirlpool-Maelstrom]

I understand that even if we are right, it's not gentlemen to celebrate, but sometimes we need to celebrate.

When I mean by celebrate is not "rub it in the other guy's faces," but "We tried our hardest, we stuck by the facts, and we were told we were right."

Facts are facts whether you agree or disagree. I myself am only celebrating that my theory was correct when I said that Sasuke told Sakura that she had to prove her "loyalty."

Sasuke: "Me? I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid." (Yeah I know Jack Sparrow)

The fact is, SasuSaku is pretty much dead. There is nothing more to say about it. It's not bashing, it's a fact.

The fact is that maybe we got a little overboard in our celebration, I myself as one of the "hypocrits". Now that I've sobered up, I think that we could've been a little less bashful, but then again this stuff will always happen, today it was us, tomorrow it will be them, even if Narusaku ends up as the canon pairing, not just the most possible but CANON, the other fandoms will still hit on us and vice-versa, it's a never ending circle of hate, we can't stop it in the internet but of course we can stop it from ruling our lives out of here and that's what matters the most in my opinion, still being called a hypocrit stung a little but you have to admit reason when it hit's you in the face and for that I hold no resentment.

Edited by Whirlpool-Maelstrom, 19 February 2010 - 03:31 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I think everyone is missing his point It's not about celebrating per se...though my personal belief is that one shouldn't celebrate a victory that hasn't decisevly been achieved yet.

It's the fact that just one chapter ago when people were freaking out about the apparent SasuSaku tilt they were also complaining about how the SasuSaku fans would be dancing around and saying their pairing is cannong, NaruSaku is dead, and so on.

And they were doing this despite the fact that not 10 chapters ago we were dancing around proclaiming NS canon and the death of SasuSaku, and then do so yet again, one chapter after complaining about all the crap the SasuSaku fans were doing. This is in addition to things like people constantly saying "it's dead, don't understand why they don't give up" when they know full well they wouldn't do so for NaruSaku.

Apprently without realizing the irony or hyprocrisy of it all.....

It makes fandoms (all of us in general) look like the purpose of our existance is not to support our pairing, but to defeat and shove it up the collective rear ends of opposing fandoms.

Okay I understand that, but what about the ones who never gave up? What about the ones who never gave up even when things looked bleak? This goes for all pairing fans regardless on what you support.

While some are guilty of hypocrisy, some aren't. Some here knew what was going to happen and knew what path was taken. Are these guys just as bad? I think not.

I myself never complained about the SS or NH saying NaruSaku was dead, but only that they would be childish when it comes to supporting their cause. While I am guilty of showing favortism as we all are, at least I don;t sit on the fence and abandon ship when one thing goes bad.

The ones who stayed faithful deserve to celebrate any victory they can get, as long as they don;t shove it in the faces of others.

though my personal belief is that one shouldn't celebrate a victory that hasn't decisevly been achieved yet.

To a true fan, there is no contest. That is why they call them "fans" even if the team loses. You don't abandon just yet and all those who stay on the SS side I applaud them because it's not looking good for SS pairing.

I think even you can agree that NS has been boosted to 90% chance of happening. While SS has been dropped significantly. This is a big victory for individual characters as well as NS fans.

Unless Kishimoto pulls the ultimate hat trick somewhere, it's most likly outcome.

[ShippudenGirl]

Well, claiming there officially dead is a bit, eh, because, like I said before you can't really say it is until Sakura says she hates Sasukes guts or something :l hmm, it's all so confusing with pairings these days, I don't think bashing SS really solves the issues at hand. Though, I gotta say if Sakura magically still loves him in the end then I'm gonna shave my hair off, my beautiful beautiful hair U_U please Sakura please!
I think we need to chill on the SS part because why discuss it? Kinda pointless, we don't support that pairing. Sorry, if this makes little to no sense I just woke up.

[Gravenimage]

Okay I understand that, but what about the ones who never gave up? What about the ones who never gave up even when things looked bleak? This goes for all pairing fans regardless on what you support.

While some are guilty of hypocrisy, some aren't. Some here knew what was going to happen and knew what path was taken. Are these guys just as bad? I think not.

I myself never complained about the SS or NH saying NaruSaku was dead, but only that they would be childish when it comes to supporting their cause. While I am guilty of showing favortism as we all are, at least I don;t sit on the fence and abandon ship when one thing goes bad.

The ones who stayed faithful deserve to celebrate any victory they can get, as long as they don;t shove it in the faces of others.



To a true fan, there is no contest. That is why they call them "fans" even if the team loses. You don't abandon just yet and all those who stay on the SS side I applaud them because it's not looking good for SS pairing.

I think even you can agree that NS has been boosted to 90% chance of happening. While SS has been dropped significantly. This is a big victory for individual characters as well as NS fans.

Unless Kishimoto pulls the ultimate hat trick somewhere, it's most likly outcome.

I am one of those faithful followers who hasn't given up on N/S because there's just too many N/S development and moments in the manga for Kishi to kill it in one chapter. I will remain faithful and celebrate however everyone must agree with me that this chapter was a painful blow to S/S if its not dead yet it's barely breathing.

[tricksie]

I sort of wanted Kakashi to point out to Sasuke that Itachi is gone because he killed him o.O But I think Sasuke purposefully was asking for the impossible because he knows very well that they will never come back. It was sort of meant to be more mocking, I think, than what he actually would expect. The reality of what he was getting at, it seemed, was that nothing would make him stop ever. But Itachi was asked for first because I think Sasuke cared more about Itachi than anyone in the world.

You're right: In order of who he called out for, Sasuke wants the one he killed, Itachi, and he also wants the ones Itachi killed, his parents and clan. (And it doesn't matter if he technically killed Itachi, it was a battle to the death. Both would have died if Madara had not scooped up Sasuke)

But it got me thinking, we know Naruto's motivation lies in the past from his flashbacks, most notably how he views Sakura. But Sasuke also is living in the past, we just don't see any of his inner thoughts. He's calling out for a time with Itachi, his parents and clan, that never in reality existed. The time he was hearkening back to, Sasuke was a kid. But the coup was already underway, and Itachi was already deeply involved in betraying his clan. He's not only wanting something that can never be - bringing his family and clan back - but he want something that never was: parents and a clan that were happy within Konoha, and a brother that was not plotting their imminent deaths.

And what if Sasuke lost his battle to Itachi, would Itachi have killed him then? Would they have strode arm-in-arm off into the sunset. Itachi forced him to become an avenger, a loner, a killer, and now Madara is using that how he will. Itachi never even told Sasuke how to defend himself against Madara, who Itachi obviously didn't trust. So, I think the whole 'I love Itachi now' thing is on shaky ground.

Kakashi could enlighten Sasuke with his own experiences too, his dad died (committed suicide) for his comrades. And Kakashi had to live through it. But...if we focus any more on Sasuke I think we really ought to rename the manga.

Naruto and Sakuras love cannot just save the day anymore; he has killed his heart to the point where he wouldn't know what to do with that love.

Great quote. Sasuke really has killed his heart.

[James S Cassidy]

I am one of those faithful followers who hasn't given up on N/S because there's just too many N/S development and moments in the manga for Kishi to kill it in one chapter. I will remain faithful and celebrate however everyone must agree with me that this chapter was a painful blow to S/S if its not dead yet it's barely breathing.

Agreed.

It is a very painful blow against the SS pairing.

[Whirlpool-Maelstrom]

I think everyone is missing his point It's not about celebrating per se...though my personal belief is that one shouldn't celebrate a victory that hasn't decisevly been achieved yet.

It's the fact that just one chapter ago when people were freaking out about the apparent SasuSaku tilt they were also complaining about how the SasuSaku fans would be dancing around and saying their pairing is cannong, NaruSaku is dead, and so on.

And they were doing this despite the fact that not 10 chapters ago we were dancing around proclaiming NS canon and the death of SasuSaku, and then do so yet again, one chapter after complaining about all the crap the SasuSaku fans were doing. This is in addition to things like people constantly saying "it's dead, don't understand why they don't give up" when they know full well they wouldn't do so for NaruSaku.

Apprently without realizing the irony or hyprocrisy of it all.....

It makes fandoms (all of us in general) look like the purpose of our existance is not to support our pairing, but to defeat and shove it up the collective rear ends of opposing fandoms.

Never ending circle of hate like i said, but then again even the best of us want to go there and rub it in their faces and say "See told you it was canon.", some of us can stop but there will always be others to do that, it was a good thing from dl316bh to slap us some sense.

Edited by Whirlpool-Maelstrom, 19 February 2010 - 03:39 PM.

[Arabian Maiden]

What I didn't like about this chapter is :

1. Sasuke, trying to kill Sakura with that cowardly way!
2. I was expecting more than just hesitation out of Sakura's part, espically after seen how determined she was.

I guess, the only thing I appreciate in this chapter , the fact that SasuSaku is offically Dead, Done, Finish and Vanish.

Sorry for my English ^^'

Edited by Arabian Maiden, 19 February 2010 - 03:49 PM.

[Codus N]

it's a never ending circle of hate, we can't stop it in the internet but of course we can stop it from ruling our lives out of here and that's what matters the most in my opinion, still being called a hypocrit stung a little but you have to admit reason when it hit's you in the face and for that I hold no resentment.

Wow, Naruto should really quote you on that for the solution to "never ending cycle of hate". (Although Raikage beat it to him first, I think)

[crazyefra]

When I said that it was dead, I meant to say that the possibility of happening is almost at 0% and I only celebrated at the fact that sakura is seeing the sasuke she doesn't love. I think that kishi's plan is to make Sasuke the main antagonist after Madara and the only way for that to work he (kishi) has to make sakura, kakashi and naruto see how much Sasuke has changed for the worst. He already did it with sakura and kakashi and naruto will be the next one to see it and make the decision sakura and kakashi already did.

[Serenity Namikaze]

What I didn't like about this chapter is :

1. Sasuke, trying to kill Sakura with that cowardly way!
2. I was expecting more than just hesitation out of Sakura's part, espically after seen how determined she was.

I guess, the only thing I appreciate in this chapter , the fact that SasuSaku is offically Dead, Done, Finish and Vanish.

Sorry for my English ^^'

I think that Sakura's hesitation was totally understandable considering the circonstances. It's not a simple task to kill someone and Sakura never kill anyone before.

[Dreamer]

fine...sigh...

Okay where are we again?
Section 1: Expresion of Awesomeness
Section 2: SasuSaku trample party
Section 3: Likely SS rebound debunking
Section 4: Zetsu
Section 5: Leveling off
Section 6: Karin....
Here we go. Yeah, they might go after Karin I don't want anything bad to happen to Sakura though in the process, she has to extract info and I don't want her to actually become a damsel in distress and get captured in mystery world or else she'll never improve.

Sasuke though has really become the opposite of Naruto as he is supposed to be, his conception was the opposite so it is obivous that he'd become a screaming crybaby who wants his dead loved ones back. Naruto isn't, he just doesn't want to lose those he still has, which is why he fainted, and why Sasuke stabbed and betrayed those who were his allies.

Ohh Gawd! This thread has been sectioned now.

I wonder in the manga cover when Sakura was looking up at the sky was this scene taking place before she left to the Iron Country , and I wonder if she decided to sit down and gather her feelings/reflect on past events for how she realized she loved Naruto after Sai told her?

[Insurrection]

Ohh Gawd! This thread has been sectioned now.

I wonder in the manga cover when Sakura was looking up at the sky was this scene taking place before she left to the Iron Country , and I wonder if she decided to sit down and gather her feelings/reflect on past events for how she realized she loved Naruto after Sai told her?

Yep, I hope that's what Kishi had in mind for the cover.

By the way we're on Section 8: Hypocrisy? What Hypocrisy?

Edited by Insurrection, 19 February 2010 - 05:23 PM.

[Nate River]

Okay I understand that, but what about the ones who never gave up? What about the ones who never gave up even when things looked bleak? This goes for all pairing fans regardless on what you support.

While some are guilty of hypocrisy, some aren't. Some here knew what was going to happen and knew what path was taken. Are these guys just as bad? I think not.

I myself never complained about the SS or NH saying NaruSaku was dead, but only that they would be childish when it comes to supporting their cause. While I am guilty of showing favortism as we all are, at least I don;t sit on the fence and abandon ship when one thing goes bad.

The ones who stayed faithful deserve to celebrate any victory they can get, as long as they don;t shove it in the faces of others.

No one is accusing you personally of anything. I was clarifying dl's post.

Again, nobody is saying you can't celebrate. We're saying it's hypocrtical to celebrate whiling whining about the other side doing it when they think they've had a moment. In short, we're critical of those who decry the same behavior they themselves engage it.

To a true fan, there is no contest. That is why they call them "fans" even if the team loses. You don't abandon just yet and all those who stay on the SS side I applaud them because it's not looking good for SS pairing.

I think even you can agree that NS has been boosted to 90% chance of happening. While SS has been dropped significantly. This is a big victory for individual characters as well as NS fans.

I'm not going to debate you on what a true fan does.

For many that is true, but glance of some of the posts in the debate thread or chapter threads. In many circumstances they are more about SasuSaku fans and their behavior then they are about the merits of SasuSaku.

And for me personally, that's actually my biggest gripe: When boat rocks a little people freak about more about what SasuSaku fans are doing than about SasuSaku happening. I don't mind debating them, but outside of genuine debate, who cares what they do?