2508 replies to this topic

[catsi563]

Actually i can see why they would be an important influence. remember that Naruto was an orphan and shunned as a kid. for him to ahve a person like Ayame give him the unconditional acceptance and friendship she did would have to be a very big deal for him.

I can easilly see why he might think of her as a big sister type of deal.

As to Hinata well evidence suggests she has been nice and kind to Naruto most of the time shes known him. HOWEVER. and this is the big one. She has not interacted with him at all untill the chunin exams.

One can easilly justift Hinatas being a ncie person and seeing him and his determination for what they are. that admiration leaidng to her being nice and kind to him.

but where many fanfics authors make a mistep is that they incorrectly push the notion that she has had prior interaction with him. this simply is not true. In canon as far as we have been told. Hinata has never interacted with Naruto as a child until the time of the chunin exams.

In michas case. im a fan of his stories because they can be fun and funny. almost carthatic in a way. think of them as a naruto abridged type of series. its a shot to read guilt free some character bashing done in a story context.

then you read In your arms, or Whirlpool Country, or Shade of the Leaf for some serious storytelling

[RyrineaHaruno]

Actually i can see why they would be an important influence. remember that Naruto was an orphan and shunned as a kid. for him to ahve a person like Ayame give him the unconditional acceptance and friendship she did would have to be a very big deal for him.

I can easily see why he might think of her as a big sister type of deal.

As to Hinata well evidence suggests she has been nice and kind to Naruto most of the time shes known him. HOWEVER. and this is the big one. She has not interacted with him at all untill the chunin exams.

I tend to think that Ayame is his in fact a big sister type of person, but I do agree with you that they never interacted outside the Ramen shop.

One can easily justify Hinata's being a nice person and seeing him and his determination for what they are. that admiration leading to her being nice and kind to him.

but where many fanfics authors make a misstep is that they incorrectly push the notion that she has had prior interaction with him. this simply is not true. In canon as far as we have been told. Hinata has never interacted with Naruto as a child until the time of the chunin exams.

I get really mad at them for saying that Hinata interacted with him when they were children which in fact she didn't at all. They always claim that she beat Iurka at acknowledging him as a friend and little bother type of person,

[Jenskott]

Actually i can see why they would be an important influence. remember that Naruto was an orphan and shunned as a kid. for him to ahve a person like Ayame give him the unconditional acceptance and friendship she did would have to be a very big deal for him.

I can easilly see why he might think of her as a big sister type of deal.

Yes, but in the manga they weren't. He never names them among the first persons gave him the acknowledgement he craved for, neither their faces came to his mind when he thinks of the people acknowledges him now.

Don't misunderstand me: the manga never showed his relationship with Teuchi and Ayame was a big deal. Still, the manga established ONE relationship. We know he saw them frequently, they fed him and treated him like a person. He's bound to be grateful for it. Therefore, you can use those CANON facts for developing a relationship of trust and friendship, at least.

You haven't that luxury with Hinata. The manga has established she never talked to him before the Chuunin exams. He called her a dark, weird girl gave him creeps, not a good person was always nice to him. He always told he was alone until Iruka-sensei and Team 7 later came along.

Therefore, there was NO prior relationship between them before the Chuunin exams. Gee, during 436 chapters she had a TOUGH job to talk to him without stammering or not fainting.

As to Hinata well evidence suggests she has been nice and kind to Naruto most of the time shes known him. HOWEVER. and this is the big one. She has not interacted with him at all untill the chunin exams.

One can easilly justift Hinatas being a ncie person and seeing him and his determination for what they are. that admiration leaidng to her being nice and kind to him.

but where many fanfics authors make a mistep is that they incorrectly push the notion that she has had prior interaction with him. this simply is not true. In canon as far as we have been told. Hinata has never interacted with Naruto as a child until the time of the chunin exams.

Every time I see a summary stating Hinata approached Naruto when he was younger, that she stood up to him when someone insulted him, that she went with Naruto and Jiraiya during their training journey, I KNOW I must not read that fic. If it's stated in somewhere Hinata suffered a Hell of loneliness or Naruto realized he never loved Sakura but he was in love with Hinata all along, then I know I must stay the Hell away that thing.

It's amusing how NaruHina fanfictions always have Hinata replacing Sakura despite Hinata supposedly has such a deep and wonderful relationship with Naruto. IMO, if they had such a good relationship, NaruHina writers wouldn't need making up stuff or sully Sakura's character for getting Naruto falling in for Hinata.

I can buy the "Sakura realizes early on that Naruto isn't a bad person and they became friends" fanfiction scenary. Why? Because that was what happened in the manga. She "befriended" Naruto when she realized his true self, so it could have happened when they were kids.

However I can't buy the "Hinata mustering her courage and befriending Naruto when he was young" scenary. Why? Because she NEVER did it in the manga despite she had plenty chances for developing a closer relationship with him and nothing prevented her from it. Yet, she did NOTHING. Actually, she barely talked to him even when they became friends. To change that, you'd have to change her personality so much she would become other character.

We know Sakura reached out to Naruto when she realized how he was. We know Hinata never reached out to Naruto despite she supposedly knew how he was. Do you see the trouble?

[harry4e]

I can understand the whole Ayame being the older sister type, if you think of it as a non typical sense, I don't think it goes to the extend most fics make out them to be but more towards the valued customer type of relationship.

We know that Naruto can eat for Britain, and it's highly unlikely his war orphan benefit was enough to pay for those meals so you can assume he got quite a few discounts from the stand. We also know that most of the civilians avoided him and hated him, yet the Ramen store never turned away his business, even if likely hurt their business by accepting him at their stand. So you can imagine Naruto visiting the stand daily and telling Ayame about his latest prank or what happened at school etc, and Ayame like a patient older sister listend to him and talked to him like you would a young brother. But I can't imagine Ayame, going to visit Naruto outside business hours, taking him shopping etc.

As for Hinata it's pretty much proven in canon that she never approached him before they became genin, this was shown just a few weeks ago when she went on a kamakaze mission and attacked Pein knowing she had no chance, (the more I think about it, the more in annoys me how careless she was.) the flashback scene showed Naruto training and Hinata hiding from him, unable to approach him, even when it's just the two of them, if she couldn't talk to him when it was just the two of them it's 100% certain she never talked to him in school when the whole class was there to witness it.

I can definitely see Sakura and Naruto being friends early on, for example when she was being picked on if it had been Naruto and not Ino who helped her out, you can see friendship building, a large part of Sakura disliking Naruto is not her own personal preferance but with her wanting to fit in with everyone else, so no one picked on her. By the time they became genin it was too late for her to be herself, It was with her fight against Ino where she decided to be herself and not try to imitate Ino, and that was from where her friendship with Naruto started to blossom.

I don't think i'll ever understand the Anti-Sakura lobby, she has never been as bad as they depict her to be. Yes she was a grade A Biatch right at the beginning when teams were announced and said some nasty things about Naruto, but she hasn't been all that bad, if she was, she never would have given Naruto tips on how to do the tree walking exercise, and he'd still be falling on his arse when trying that exercise.

Edited by harry4e, 14 May 2009 - 08:39 PM.

[Kori]

Two more fics in the library! ^^

Naruto's Descent into the Darkness First Chapter

The Guardian Kitsune Prologue

Hope you enjoi ^^

[catsi563]

a large part of Sakura disliking Naruto is not her own personal preferance but with her wanting to fit in with everyone else, so no one picked on her

I disagree with this actually. It was well stated that Sakuras dislike for him came from the fact that he (in her opinion) didnt understand her and was always interfereing with her love life. this is the root of her dislike for Naruto. the fact that he was always acting like an annoying brat didnt help his case either.

eventualy at TPOAL she understood the truth that he did understand her, and it was then how she understood how little she trully understood Naruto himself.

[harry4e]

I disagree with this actually. It was well stated that Sakuras dislike for him came from the fact that he (in her opinion) didnt understand her and was always interfereing with her love life. this is the root of her dislike for Naruto. the fact that he was always acting like an annoying brat didnt help his case either.

eventualy at TPOAL she understood the truth that he did understand her, and it was then how she understood how little she trully understood Naruto himself.

Yeah but who did she say that too? Sasuke, who she was trying to convince she doesn't like Naruto's advances, i'll give you that Sakura found him annoying and loud, (his thoughtless comments are going to be something she's going to punsih for.) and she actually did fool herself into believing that she didn't like him because he didn't really know her but I think it was because she didnt want to admit to even herself that the person he saw was actually who she was and not this false personality she has built up.

I don't think it's a coincidense that her friendship with Naruto grew more as she started to accept who she was and we started to see less of her inner sakura at the same time.

[catsi563]

Ahh but she didnt say it to Sasuke she said it to Naruto.

though granted she thought it was Sasuke henge was pretty strong there.

there is no canonical evidence that Sakura ever treated Naruto like the other kids. Its been pointed out on more then one occasion that she simply found him annoying because of his antics.

alot of the she hated him like the other kids usualy comes from the misconception that sakuras parents hated him. which again their is no canonical evidence to suggest.

in point of fact given that her only real dislike of naruto was his annoying personality. evidence seems to suggest that her parents didnt say anything about naruto one way or the other.

shippiuden also seems to suugest that Sakura saw him as a kid and as lonely and was sympathetic to him. in Chapter 252 page 6 she sees a memory of him standing alone.

[Terrace]

Okay, people. I think that's quite enough of that topic. Please confine future posts to reporting story updates. I'd normally wait for the mods to say this, but I don't think they've noticed yet, and this has gone far enough.

[ciardha]

I don't think i'll ever understand the Anti-Sakura lobby, she has never been as bad as they depict her to be. Yes she was a grade A Biatch right at the beginning when teams were announced and said some nasty things about Naruto, but she hasn't been all that bad, if she was, she never would have given Naruto tips on how to do the tree walking exercise, and he'd still be falling on his arse when trying that exercise.

Heck, it goes back further than that- Chapter 5. She breaks cover and shouts for Naruto to flee because she's terrified that Kakashi is going to kill Naruto (remember Kakashi told them to come at him "with killing intent" In Sakura's mind she would see Kakashi coming at Naruto with killing intent.) She, as far as she knows at the time, is putting her own life in grave danger, but she acts anyway. Later in the same chapter, after she realizes Kakashi isn't going to kill Naruto, she's angry at Kakashi for bullying Naruto. In chapter 13 she's already having romantic feelings for Naruto- she clutches at her heart and thinks- "why am I having these feelings about Naruto?" In the manga it's pretty clear, even early on, she was experiencing feelings for Naruto at the same time she was crushing on Sasuke. There's moments all through even part 1 of the manga where Sakura is attracted to Naruto.

It's the Sakura haters that created the nasty image of Sakura that even crops up in way too many narusaku fanfics. Seriously, folks, if you are writing narusaku fanfics, go back and read how Kishimoto actually wrote Sakura in part 1. If you do that you'll find the seeds of Sakura's niceness to Naruto in part 2. It was there all along, just less overt, as was her attraction to him. If you read part 1 and then start part 2- where Sakura makes her attraction to Naruto overt from the first moment she sees him (she flirts- outright invites him to look at her body in a sexual way) doesn't seem like a change out of the blue. Especially if you look at Sakura's confession scene to Sasuke from the perspective I've come to believe Kishimoto wanted the readers to see it as-

Her offer to go with Sasuke was in a naive, desperate hope that she could keep him from self-destruction if she went along. She pleads she loves him, but she's quite aware he doesn't love her- she even says- "you must hate me" Look at the calm way she says that. The rest of her words are delivered with desperation, but those words are said calmly and logically.

And look at her behavior at the end of part 1, she apologies to Naruto for not being strong enough, and vows the next time they'll get Sasuke back together. She's already begun to let go of her crush on Sasuke. It's already pretty much about saving Sasuke from self-destruction. And when she goes to Tsunade for training, Naruto and Sasuke get equal weight as her precious people. (There's hints of this even at the start of the Chunin exams- she had come to cherish Naruto's dream of becoming Hokage so much that she was going to make sure he had that chance by raising her hand during the written part of the Chunin exam to quit (to make sure Naruto had another chance to take it) even though she knew all nine of the answers and had completed them (the only Genin who ever answered any of the questions without cheating, and she answered all nine! Sasuke admitted he didn't know the answers to even one, and he was called the class "genius".) She didn't even think of how Sasuke would have reacted to her action, it was Naruto's dream that she was determined to protect.

By the time Naruto returns, it's rather obvious that Naruto is her number 1 precious person. It's Naruto she's overjoyed to see, Naruto she flirts with, Naruto she cries in sympathy over his childhood pain, and worries about the grave danger he's in. When she see Sasuke she doesn't even smile, not even for a moment. There's a moment of awe, but it's quickly replaced by fear, and then anger when he threatens Naruto's life.

I'd like to see more narusaku fanfics reflecting all this.

And yeah, I think if Naruto had been the one to stand up to the girls bullying Sakura when she was around 6 years old, a strong friendship would have come out of this that would have deepened to a romance as they grew up.

[catsi563]

All good points Cia.

As a side note we did slide off topic a tad. Is there any ways a MOD can move these posts to the NaruSaku debate thread. they're some good arguments made but do belong there.

thanks and sorry we oopsed a little

[True]

Yeah I don't mind discussion, but throw in a few updates while you're at it so it doesn't derail the thread. Still very good points brought on by everyone. The posts can stay since they deal with fan fiction characterization. Of course you are free to quote them in the debate thread if you'd like to do so.

Anyway, continue posting fics and discussing as long as it doesn't veer off outside the area of fanfiction.

Btw, I'll update the listing soon since I'm finally finished with finals and have some free time.

[Jenskott]

I'd like to see more narusaku fanfics reflecting all this.

Me too, Ciardha. Sometimes it's very frustrating. Then again, I have realized fandom always exaggerates good or bad traits of the characters. So, violent tomboys become more violent, smart geniuses become smarter, dumb persons become dumber... and Sakura becomes more violent, more fangirlish and more inmature than she never was. I guess nobody cares for the real characters anymore. Only for their fanfiction fantasies.

Ok. End of the off topic.

Shade of the Leaf by Ravyn is now complete.

I'm puzzled about it, because no more chapters have been published, but the fic is now labeled "Complete".

A Fine Fine Line by Heart on a Sword has been updated with Chapter 16.

Edit: Thank you for your understanding, True.

Edited by Jenskott, 15 May 2009 - 09:05 AM.

[Nick Soapdish]

Shade of the Leaf by Ravyn is now complete.

I'm puzzled about it, because no more chapters have been published, but the fic is now labeled "Complete".

I'd actually thought that it was already complete based on the ending of that chapter until I went back and read the beginning saying "only one more chapter". Maybe the beginning meant the one that we were about to read. But the ending of the chapter works pretty well as just an ending.

Shade of the Leaf ending --Click here to view--

Sakura figures out that she loves Naruto and decides to act upon it. Naruto reveals that he's basically guessed and that he feels the same way. So they're moving ahead with a relationship. And then it closes with a joke.

[catsi563]

Even though the endings a little softer then I prefer. Shade of the Leaf is one of the Absolute best NaruSaku fics, and one fo the best Naruto Fics period out there.

the characterization is spot on for everyone and the development of the relationship is something that could easilly be pulled directly from the manga. It also has one of the best portrayals of Sasuke Ive ever read.

[Jenskott]

I'd actually thought that it was already complete based on the ending of that chapter until I went back and read the beginning saying "only one more chapter". Maybe the beginning meant the one that we were about to read. But the ending of the chapter works pretty well as just an ending.

That was what misled me. But I guess you're right. I guess that line was refering to that chapter.

It's funny because I'd spend months ocassionally wondering if it'd be updated...

Even though the endings a little softer then I prefer. Shade of the Leaf is one of the Absolute best NaruSaku fics, and one fo the best Naruto Fics period out there.

the characterization is spot on for everyone and the development of the relationship is something that could easilly be pulled directly from the manga. It also has one of the best portrayals of Sasuke Ive ever read.

I agree. I would she wrote more NaruSaku fics.

Two more updates:

Fire Fox Legacy by Kyubbi-Kitsune has been updated with Chapter 24.

Demon No More by Kyubbi-Kitsune has been updated with Chapter 23.

Edited by Jenskott, 16 May 2009 - 10:48 AM.

[harry4e]

Dragon6 has updated with Chapter 37 of Mizukage, a great story, which I seriously need to catch up on, has to be the best NaruSaku fic that upto now has close to no NaruSaku scenes.

P..S. Sorry True and well everyone else, will try to keep this thread fanfic updates only from now on.

P.P.S. Yeah agree about Shades of Leaf, finally read it all yesterday, bit to fluffy for my liking, wanted to read more about the council conspiracy, thought that subplot could have been better as the main focal point., with Naruto and Sakura working in the background, but good fic non the less.

Edited by harry4e, 16 May 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[Jenskott]

Sorry True and well everyone else, will try to keep this thread fanfic updates only from now on.

You don't need apologising, Harry. Right like True said, a bit of discussion in this thread is allowed, and our debate was about proper characterization in fanfiction.

Regarding Mizukage... Sigh. Honestly, when I read it was a "Naruto retrieves Sasuke but Sakura hates him for fullfilling his promise and he's kicked out of Konoha" fanfic, my interest completely died. I hate that kind of fics with a burning passion. That cliche made absolutely NO sense years ago, and it makes less sense -if it was possible- after reading the last two arcs!

When the Shikamaru squad returned, Sakura wanted visiting Naruto first. When she found out he failed, she didn't get angry. She never blamed him. Actually, she tried cheering him up and released him from his promise. Are you telling me she'd hate him if he SUCCEEDED?

And now we KNOW Uchiha's clan wasn't so widely beloved and Konoha's citizens in fact pitied Naruto when he failed and hoped he didn't blame himself. A scenery where they kick him out for that is just so absurd and baseless like the "Naruto was mobbed and almost lynched every day when he was a child" fanfiction nonsensical cliche. And suggesting the council (Now, seriously. Do we know for sure there's a council in Konoha, and its members are driven in making Naruto's life miserable?) would be so angry at Naruto for harming UCHIHA Sasuke that they would banish him is completely illogical. Think about it: if you were a warrior and you owned the most powerful weapon in the world, you'd toss it aside because you don't like it, knowing your enemies can find it?

Sigh. Moving on:

Here and Now by Denim88 has been updated with Chapter 29.

Team Sharingan by EroSlackerMicha has been updated with Chapter 24.

[catsi563]

Regarding Mizukage... Sigh. Honestly, when I read it was a "Naruto retrieves Sasuke but Sakura hates him for fullfilling his promise and he's kicked out of Konoha" fanfic, my interest completely died. I hate that kind of fics with a burning passion. That cliche made absolutely NO sense years ago, and it makes less sense -if it was possible- after reading the last two arcs!

When the Shikamaru squad returned, Sakura wanted visiting Naruto first. When she found out he failed, she didn't get angry. She never blamed him. Actually, she tried cheering him up and released him from his promise. Are you telling me she'd hate him if he SUCCEEDED?

And now we KNOW Uchiha's clan wasn't so widely beloved and Konoha's citizens in fact pitied Naruto when he failed and hoped he didn't blame himself. A scenery where they kick him out for that is just so absurd and baseless like the "Naruto was mobbed and almost lynched every day when he was a child" fanfiction nonsensical cliche. And suggesting the council (Now, seriously. Do we know for sure there's a council in Konoha, and its members are driven in making Naruto's life miserable?) would be so angry at Naruto for harming UCHIHA Sasuke that they would banish him is completely illogical. Think about it: if you were a warrior and you owned the most powerful weapon in the world, you'd toss it aside because you don't like it, knowing your enemies can find it?

Its not totally far fetched if seen in context.

jsut remember Fear makes people do strange and ultimatelys tupid things. and they do fear Naruto at that time, even if after his match with Neji they started to respect him.

the key for Sakura to fear him in such a fashion would be this. After he brings him back, she sees sasuke badly injured and beaten up. now this would shock her and scare her. but it would be made worse by Sasuke. Sasuke (the perosn she thinks shes in love with) gives a probably very biased description of the fight, and reveals to sakura that hes the Kyuubi. the combined shocks and revelations just overwhelm Sakura who at the time is a strong girl but not as strong emotionally as she would become.

this combines to leave her with a horrifying image of a monster on her team. Fear leads to stupidity (which thankfully shes overcome) and she rejects him in the worst way possible.

Add in Danzo and some others spreading rumors around and the populace turns against him, is not an surprising result. The goal for Danzo to isolate him, and leave him with noone else to turn too backfires when Naruto vanishes before he can track him down to offer sanctuary.

Kakashis laziness and disregard for Narutos situation for me is the more shocking OOC ness in the story. his oh well they wont do anything to you attitude is WAY OOC especially after his those who abandon their comerades speach. (hes fixing it in the story but still)

like K said in MIB. a person is smart. people are dumb panicy animals. gather people in large groups and the IQ of the person in volved goes down dramatically.

[Paradox Jast]

I think Mizukage is rather good overall. My only problem with it is the number of lasting OC's.

Now, OC's that last an entire story are fine. It gets to be a problem, however, when those OC's last the entire story, there are more than 5 of them, and updates come maybe once a month (if that). If they aren't an established canon character, I have to go back and re-read old chapters just to remember who the OC's are, because they are names I don't recognize.

The latest chapter had a lot of spelling and grammar errors too. I like the story overall, but I've been finding my interest waning.