756 replies to this topic

[DrK]

Well, heaven and earth scene with Iruka I guess?

Yeah, ok, that sounds as good as any. NS was honestly the strongest possibility by a good margin even after only part 1. The stuff in part 2 just makes it incredibly obvious. 

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I just don't know why you insist on doing this.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I'm not friends with obvious trolls.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Oh that's "subjective." So your opinion on what you are doesn't matter.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Yes, it is hence why I called you one.

I'm not responding to your BS beyond this.

[Kasimir38]

Umm, could you please stay with the topic? Let us all be friends and respect each others opinions.

[DrK]

Umm, could you please stay with the topic? Let us all be friends and respect each others opinions.

I can't stop Analyzer, or anyone else, from telling people they are wrong. Nor can I force them to respect the opinions of others by providing justification for their rejection of stated interpretations.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I can't stop Analyzer, or anyone else, from telling people they are wrong. Nor can I force them to respect the opinions of others by providing justification for their rejection of stated interpretations.

And it can't be helped when You've-Know-Who won't accept or respect our opinions when all she wants is for us to tell her she's right but she isn't.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Getting back to the exam scene I do think its a good distinction that Sakura is about self sacrifice in this situation where as Hinata is about blindly, and foolishly sacrificing basically everything and everyone just to get noticed. 

[James S Cassidy]

Well, Kishimoto himself said that it's literally means nothing. Author himself basicly admited that great part of his story was for lulz, so basicly readers just gave bad writter much more credit than he deserved. Nothing wrong with that, people tends to be wrong, and some use that for their own purposes, what he basicly did.

Which doesn't stop the pro-enders from saying how Hinata is like Minato.

So, Jiraiya and Tsunade discuss how Naruto is like Kushina and Minato. (This prompted pro-enders to think that Naruto is Kushina and Hinata is Minato.)
Tsunade makes comparisons of Naruto to Dan, her little brother, and even Minato
Minato says Sakura is like Kushina.
and so many other comparisons..., but parallels are meaningless?

Than why have the characters themselves lampshade the parallels? Who would know Kushina better than Minato?

"Red herring"

Of course. Sasuke staying in the village must have been a red herring too I guess.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 December 2017 - 06:32 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Getting back to the exam scene I do think its a good distinction that Sakura is about self sacrifice in this situation where as Hinata is about blindly, and foolishly sacrificing basically everything and everyone just to get noticed.

Yeah. Even Naruto himself wouldn't be willing to sacrifice anyone or anything in the day when he wanted to get attention. It shows how Hinata isn't right for Naruto because she doesn't get who he is or how he really is when she is more in love with the ideal of Naruto that just doesn't really exist. She also has caused him to lose a lot of who he is, and she doesn't even give a damn. Which is saddest. She isn't like Minato, she isn't even like Kushina, she just is too timid and not a genius that works hard nonetheless.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

-accidently cuts off someone's foot, accidently cripples several people- I was just trying to help the guy I liked. No big deal.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

You apparently missed that we were talking about a hypothetical situation. You probably shouldn't have interjected your opinion if you didn't realize that.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 06 December 2017 - 10:29 PM.

[RulesofNature]

What I find funny is the things you mentioned about Sakura supporting Naruto's dream and how this scene showcases it is refutted by many pro-enders I come across. Hell, I ran across a pro-ender on youtube who got so offended by me saying how Hinata never supported Naruto's dreams or goals all the while Sakura did that he resorted to bad grammar and cussing his way through conversations.

Even more so when you point of several situations where Sakura did, even showing proof of said scenes, and all they got under their belt is the stupid Pain confession. The Pain confession is the only ammunition these people got. They don't mention the ointment, they don't mention the Neji death scene, they don't even mention anything beyond "Because Hinata jumped into save Naruto against Pain."

I asked them to provide panel proof where Hinata openly supports Naruto's dream and goals....and all they do is curse me out like a bunch of salty fans.

Hell, I even mentioned what was said during the Naruto the Last movie AND from Kishimoto's own interviews citing and putting links....and they said I was a "kittening liar." So you can't reason with these people. You can't talk to these people or have any kind of conversation with them because they are so deluded with their own pairing bias that it seems like they don't read the manga at all.

To them: Sakura is abusive and used Naruto....even though Naruto the Last said that it was Naruto who used Sasuke and Sakura to his own means and Sakura maybe only has hit Naruto 5 times at most throughout 700 chapters and most of them were comical with the only one being more emotional was the Pain Arc hug and even then she didn't hit him THAT hard. (Also, disregarding what a Tsundere is)

And Hinata was the only person who supported Naruto's dreams and the only person who cared about him. Apparently everyone else didn't count.

 

This is a big thing with Hinata, her moments with Naruto are massive double-edged swords. She was willing to help Naruto during the Chunin exam, but this resulted in her putting her Team's success at risk for Naruto while Naruto refused because it could harm Sasuke and Sakura. Neji had to die to be their cupid in a scene that ended up NOT advancing their development, Naruto had to throw away the scarf his mother made him to accept Hinata's, Hinata is willing to abandon her children to be with Naruto and is unwilling to address Boruto's issues because she doesn't want Naruto to be burdened with them. We could go through every one of the major moments and do this, as well as Kishi's comments about how he gave Hinata the win because he'd feel bad for her otherwise.

[Yyubie]

What I find funny is the things you mentioned about Sakura supporting Naruto's dream and how this scene showcases it is refutted by many pro-enders I come across. Hell, I ran across a pro-ender on youtube who got so offended by me saying how Hinata never supported Naruto's dreams or goals all the while Sakura did that he resorted to bad grammar and cussing his way through conversations.

Even more so when you point of several situations where Sakura did, even showing proof of said scenes, and all they got under their belt is the stupid Pain confession. The Pain confession is the only ammunition these people got. They don't mention the ointment, they don't mention the Neji death scene, they don't even mention anything beyond "Because Hinata jumped into save Naruto against Pain."

I asked them to provide panel proof where Hinata openly supports Naruto's dream and goals....and all they do is curse me out like a bunch of salty fans.

Hell, I even mentioned what was said during the Naruto the Last movie AND from Kishimoto's own interviews citing and putting links....and they said I was a "kittening liar." So you can't reason with these people. You can't talk to these people or have any kind of conversation with them because they are so deluded with their own pairing bias that it seems like they don't read the manga at all.

To them: Sakura is abusive and used Naruto....even though Naruto the Last said that it was Naruto who used Sasuke and Sakura to his own means and Sakura maybe only has hit Naruto 5 times at most throughout 700 chapters and most of them were comical with the only one being more emotional was the Pain Arc hug and even then she didn't hit him THAT hard. (Also, disregarding what a Tsundere is)

And Hinata was the only person who supported Naruto's dreams and the only person who cared about him. Apparently everyone else didn't count.

Please allow me to help you enlarge this very important word.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

This is a big thing with Hinata, her moments with Naruto are massive double-edged swords. She was willing to help Naruto during the Chunin exam, but this resulted in her putting her Team's success at risk for Naruto while Naruto refused because it could harm Sasuke and Sakura. Neji had to die to be their cupid in a scene that ended up NOT advancing their development, Naruto had to throw away the scarf his mother made him to accept Hinata's, Hinata is willing to abandon her children to be with Naruto and is unwilling to address Boruto's issues because she doesn't want Naruto to be burdened with them. We could go through every one of the major moments and do this, as well as Kishi's comments about how he gave Hinata the win because he'd feel bad for her otherwise.

And one top of that, Nature, the series had to destroy all Naruto as about to justify his being with Hinata. He had to forget knowing what love is, even if he made Zabuza awaken his own buried feelings after Haku died, he was able to get Gaara, who was a monster due to all the **** he went through, to walk to the light and he always wanted Sakura to be happy, even if not with him.

The Last comes and NOPE. Naruto mistakes love as the same as loving food, thus destroying the person he is, and it's made worse by saying his feelings for Sakura were just to beat Sasuke when Sasuke didn't and stI'll fully doesn't give a damn about Salura at all. They had to force him to see Hinata's memories through Genjutsu, even if his bond with Kurama would prevent that. And others had to guilt trip him into going for Hinata, and making him seem to only want Hinata because Toneri wanted her.

The ending made him a terrible dad by using his work as an excuse to avoid his family as if he is afraid to be with them (and after what Himawari did to him on Inauguration Day,who can blame him?!), even running off when Boruto came with a bento from Hinata in Naruto Gaiden, yet when Sarada shows up with it, he eats it!!

There's only so many ways I can say "WHAT THE ****, PEOPLE!?!"

[Phantom_999]

I would like to bring up for the millionth time again, that who is it that Naruto always talks to in casual settings and when he doesn't have to? Who does he always ask out? Who offered to feed him? Who hugged him in front of the entire village after his fight with Pain? Now, indeed this doesn't automatically mean that person is the "love interest" but when you spend all of your free time with that person, and do not go out of your way to be with anyone else, not even the person you will marry in the future, well that is pretty indicative of how one character feels about that other character isn't it? there is NOTHING subjective about that, that is basic understanding of human interaction

Edited by Phantom_999, 07 December 2017 - 02:13 AM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Well it certainly makes that person the love interest when you talk about how much you like them romantically on numerous occasions...

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Which doesn't stop the pro-enders from saying how Hinata is like Minato.

So, Jiraiya and Tsunade discuss how Naruto is like Kushina and Minato. (This prompted pro-enders to think that Naruto is Kushina and Hinata is Minato.)
Tsunade makes comparisons of Naruto to Dan, her little brother, and even Minato
Minato says Sakura is like Kushina.
and so many other comparisons..., but parallels are meaningless?

Than why have the characters themselves lampshade the parallels? Who would know Kushina better than Minato?

"Red herring"

Of course. Sasuke staying in the village must have been a red herring too I guess.

You see, there are idiots in this world, some makes fools of themselfs, some tries to make fools from others people. 

If people doesn't have comprehensive skills ot see that Naruto and Minato is literally have polar diference between them, different color, different distinct ability (Minato speed, Naruto - power) and the only thing alike is their dream to became hokage (which is literally every shibobi's dream in village), don't expect them to understand concepts of traits such as achetypes tsundere/moe, difference between violence, and comic relief, between intended moves, and retcons. Those people just doesn't have what it takes to read stories that is more complex than simplified fairy tails from everybodys childhood 

[DrK]

Not only did Sakura get disenfranchised as Naruto's love interest, she got disenfranchised as his best friend who always looked out for him and tried to save his dumb ass. What did Sasuke do? Take senbon needles once that wouldn't have killed Naruto anyway? Big deal. Sakura cared so much about him and it was deleted along with her character development.