346 replies to this topic

[harry4e]

You forgot about Sky Island, Water 7, Namis reaction to the war, fishman island, etc. Luffy and Nami are shown to have a much stronger connection with each other than any others in the crew, Zoro excluded. While I agree that Oda doesn't focus on Romance, I wouldn't put it past him to end the series with a timeskip with Nami looking out into the ocean holding Monkey D. Ace in her arms lol but I don't think we'd see how they'd get there.

Also, while Nami and Usopp have a lot of scenes together, they're always comedic. With Luffy, while a plethora of them are comedic, Luffy is the only person that she has scenes with on an emotional level. He is shown many times to be her emotional anchor, beyond that of just a friend.

 

You're right I don't know why but I thought those arcs happened before the Arc where Chopper joined, maybe the movie for that confused me because it had Robin in it..

 

The Nami/Luffy moments were pretty awesome, I miss the, everything from the way they met, to Arlong park, when he destroyed her office, to climbing up a cliff rock, with his bare hands with her on his back, to him saving her on Skypia to the speech Nami gave him when he was stuck between two buildings, were all epic monts. I think Nami's is the one Luffy has allowed to wear his hat, something that he hold dear to his heart, and she was the one who fixed it when it got damaged.

 

I miss that part of the manga, the current save a princess has gone on for a bit too long, we need more Nami and Luffy moments, though right now I would be happy just to know what Nami is up to.

 

Back to the topic in hand I don't think Kishi is a Sexist per sai, he has shown how he likes strong willed women, but you can't help but feel that he really had little or no contact with the opposite sex, everything he learnt about women he learnt from his old fashioned Grandmother or something. His views about how women love felt like something from a different century.

 

Also I don't think even he realised it, but the three women he showed who still had a career past 30 (Tsunade, Mei and Shizune) are all single unmarried women, all the mothers are stay at home mothers, none of them have a career, only person that did was Kushina in the RtN movie. This I find bazaar, I come from a traditional Indian, Muslim family and all three of my sisters have had a career after marriage.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

So let me get this straight. It makes Sakura terrible for moving on from Sasuke---a guy who never loved her, constantly caused her pain, belittled her emotionally AND physically--- to Naruto--- a guy who always loved her, tried to always preserve her happiness, and had total respect for her.  Sakura can never move on from her first love because she's a woman and added bonus is he's a "victim" with a bad past. In fact, NO ONE should stop loving their first love just because it's a little messed up, painful, and dysfunctional because it's never the guy's fault. The girl should put up with their kitten even if that means getting themselves killed because "he can't help it, he has problems, someone needs to fix him". Guys can move on and kitten whoever they want and still be "good people", but women can't because they'd be sluts, unsympathetic, and unloyal.

 

....

 

ARE YOU F**CKING KIDDING ME, KISHI?!   What a disgraceful, disgusting set of messages. Anyone, no matter what gender involved with abuse or emotional trauma, has a right to move on and seek better things. Women are not "terrible" if they no longer love their first love or just want something better. You kittening a**hole, I can't believe how much disrespect you have for women. All those people in abusive or dysfunctional relationships should always chose that even if it hurts them. How kittening disgusting, endorsing abuse like this.

 

I hope he never gets another popular manga again. I hope his career drops. This is so unbelievable and inconsiderate to everyone. I can't imagine how anyone with a history of abusive relationships feels reading this comment. Sexism, hypocrisy, ignorance, whatever the kitten is up with him ... unforgivable.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 22 November 2014 - 05:06 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

So let me get this straight. It makes Sakura terrible for moving on from Sasuke---a guy who never loved her, constantly caused her pain, belittled her emotionally AND physically--- to Naruto--- a guy who always loved her, tried to always preserve her happiness, and had total respect for her.  Sakura can never move on from her first love because she's a woman and added bonus is he's a "victim" with a bad past. In fact, NO ONE should stop loving their first love just because it's a little messed up, painful, and dysfunctional because it's never the guy's fault. The girl should put up with their kitten even if that means getting themselves killed because "he can't help it, he has problems, someone needs to fix him". Guys can move on and kitten whoever they want and still be "good people", but women can't because they'd be sluts, unsympathetic, and unloyal.
 
....
 
ARE YOU F**CKING KIDDING ME, KISHI?!   What a disgraceful, disgusting set of messages. Anyone, no matter what gender involved with abuse or emotional trauma, has a right to move on and seek better things. Women are not "terrible" if they no longer love their first love or just want something better. You kittening a**hole, I can't believe how much disrespect you have for women. All those people in abusive or dysfunctional relationships should always chose that even if it hurts them. How kittening disgusting, endorsing abuse like this.
 
I hope he never gets another popular manga again. I hope his career drops. This is so unbelievable and inconsiderate to everyone. I can't imagine how anyone with a history of abusive relationships feels reading this comment. Sexism, hypocrisy, ignorance, whatever the kitten is up with him ... unforgivable.

I'm surprised as well. I had some trauma from when I was young and this manga helped me in so many ways only to find out that in the end Kishi is totally encouraging such an idea that created my trauma in the first place. Needless to say, I was heartbroken.

How come no one censored this?

Well now that I despise Kishi, I'm just going to eat popcorn and enjoy how he slowly destroys himself. Good riddance.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 22 November 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think I really should donate my volumes. It's only like 6 but yeah, this stings.

[Suigetsu]

It mades me really sad how you have these people that are insisting on things as if expecting a parade, then when they see that instead of a parade they recieve opposition they behave in the most disgusting of ways.
People that I tought as friends on the net became supportive of something disgusting.

 

Takl said that he enjoyed the ending, I guess he was always fond of Hinata and it seems he is ok with SS. This brokens my heart because he was or at least I considered him my best friend. Since I didnt like the ending and I clearly had different beliefs than those of his, he doesnt talk to me anymore.
Back in 2010/11 he helped me with a letter that I wrote to kishi, he was kind enough to translate it for me "I have no clue if he really did or wrote something else but I gave him blind faith on it" So all this new bs really has brought me bad feelings.

 

Kishimoto, the man that I used to admire and used as an example for how creative I wanted to be in my career, ended up supporting the same kitten and beliefs that made my childhood sad and hard with family things. I just cant, and it sickens me to no end how people seem to love that kitten as if it where normal.

 

That's why I keep saying over and over "I cant be with arms crossed, I want to do something about it, but I dont know what. I dont know if I should write another letter, or a comic or... I dont know" but I do know I want to do something about it.

At the beggining, I panicked and couldnt even believe what was going on.

I didnt like the fact that Naruto was still eating ramen and drinking sake, I didnt like the new kids nor the random pairings. And I felt sick about Sakura being with Sasuke.

Naruto with Hinata it's just god damn boring, it's like going out with a girl that likes you but you have nothing in common with, you cant have fun with her about the stuff that you like. People oblivious to this obviously havent dated that much.

 

Anyways I tried contacting Lady Gt because I wanted to sponsor her on her ending "I saw it as a way to form a stronger answer to kishimoto" but I couldnt contact her. My drawing skills may not be as good as hers "they are pretty good actually" but they are not as good as they could, be since my career of choice took me away from the pencils.

Now this interview, people are just nodding heads and approving. What is wrong with them?! Didnt they read the god damn story? It seems to me like they just read it with their Bias. I, I dont know I just needed to get this off my chest.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It mades me really sad how you have these people that are insisting on things as if expecting a parade, then when they see that instead of a parade they recieve opposition they behave in the most disgusting of ways.
People that I tought as friends on the net became supportive of something disgusting.
 
Takl said that he enjoyed the ending, I guess he was always fond of Hinata and it seems he is ok with SS. This brokens my heart because he was or at least I considered him my best friend. Since I didnt like the ending and I clearly had different beliefs than those of his, he doesnt talk to me anymore.
Back in 2010/11 he helped me with a letter that I wrote to kishi, he was kind enough to translate it for me "I have no clue if he really did or wrote something else but I gave him blind faith on it" So all this new bs really has brought me bad feelings.
 
Kishimoto, the man that I used to admire and used as an example for how creative I wanted to be in my career, ended up supporting the same bullsh** and beliefs that made my childhood sad and hard with family things. I just cant, and it sickens me to no end how people seem to love that kitten as if it where normal.
 
That's why I keep saying over and over "I cant be with arms crossed, I want to do something about it, but I dont know what. I dont know if I should write another letter, or a comic or... I dont know" but I do know I want to do something about it.
At the beggining, I panicked and couldnt even believe what was going on.
I didnt like the fact that Naruto was still eating ramen and drinking sake, I didnt like the new kids nor the random pairings. And I felt sick about Sakura being with Sasuke.
Naruto with Hinata it's just god damn boring, it's like going out with a girl that likes you but you have nothing in common with, you cant have fun with her about the stuff that you like. People oblivious to this obviously havent dated that much.
 
Anyways I tried contacting Lady Gt because I wanted to sponsor her on her ending "I saw it as a way to form a stronger answer to kishimoto" but I couldnt contact her. My drawing skills may not be as good as hers "they are pretty good actually" but they are not as good as they could, be since my career of choice took me away from the pencils.

Now this interview, people are just nodding heads and approving. What is wrong with them?! Didnt they read the god damn story? It seems to me like they just read it with their Bias. I, I dont know I just needed to get this off my chest.

He doesn't talk to you anymore because of your different opinion?

[ns.Believe.It]

It mades me really sad how you have these people that are insisting on things as if expecting a parade, then when they see that instead of a parade they recieve opposition they behave in the most disgusting of ways.
People that I tought as friends on the net became supportive of something disgusting.

 

Takl said that he enjoyed the ending, I guess he was always fond of Hinata and it seems he is ok with SS. This brokens my heart because he was or at least I considered him my best friend. Since I didnt like the ending and I clearly had different beliefs than those of his, he doesnt talk to me anymore.
Back in 2010/11 he helped me with a letter that I wrote to kishi, he was kind enough to translate it for me "I have no clue if he really did or wrote something else but I gave him blind faith on it" So all this new bs really has brought me bad feelings.

 

Kishimoto, the man that I used to admire and used as an example for how creative I wanted to be in my career, ended up supporting the same bullsh** and beliefs that made my childhood sad and hard with family things. I just cant, and it sickens me to no end how people seem to love that kitten as if it where normal.

 

That's why I keep saying over and over "I cant be with arms crossed, I want to do something about it, but I dont know what. I dont know if I should write another letter, or a comic or... I dont know" but I do know I want to do something about it.

At the beggining, I panicked and couldnt even believe what was going on.

I didnt like the fact that Naruto was still eating ramen and drinking sake, I didnt like the new kids nor the random pairings. And I felt sick about Sakura being with Sasuke.

Naruto with Hinata it's just god damn boring, it's like going out with a girl that likes you but you have nothing in common with, you cant have fun with her about the stuff that you like. People oblivious to this obviously havent dated that much.

 

Anyways I tried contacting Lady Gt because I wanted to sponsor her on her ending "I saw it as a way to form a stronger answer to kishimoto" but I couldnt contact her. My drawing skills may not be as good as hers "they are pretty good actually" but they are not as good as they could, be since my career of choice took me away from the pencils.

Now this interview, people are just nodding heads and approving. What is wrong with them?! Didnt they read the god damn story? It seems to me like they just read it with their Bias. I, I dont know I just needed to get this off my chest.

I completely agree with you. What hurt me the most was seeing that adult Naruto. It was as if his soul had been ripped off him and he was living an empty life, devoid of happiness. And housewife Sakura..? Words fail me. 

 

Btw you are a member of NF right? Welcome to this site  What do you think about that 'Naruto-Sakura Friendship FC' that's been created there? I think its hilarious to read the comments of all those NH/SS fans who before were completely denying the NS bond. Now that they are not threatened anymore, they are voicing their actual opinions. 'NS bond is the best in the manga', 'I enjoy their chemistry' etc etc. At the end they add- 'Only as friendship of course!' .

 

Its like they believe friendship and love are totally non-related. Selflessness, care and trust are strictly friendship whereas selfishness, angst, pain and mis-trust constitute love     

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 22 November 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[Suigetsu]

I completely agree with you. What hurt me the most was seeing that adult Naruto. It was as if his soul had been ripped off him and he was living an empty life, devoid of happiness. And housewife Sakura..? Words fail me. 

 

Btw you are a member of NF right? Welcome to this site  What do you think about that 'Naruto-Sakura Friendship FC' that's been created there? I think its hilarious to read the comments of all those NH/SS fans who before were completely denying the NS bond. Now that they are not threatened anymore, they are voicing their actual opinions. 'NS bond is the best in the manga', 'I enjoy their chemistry' etc etc. At the end they add- 'Only as friendship of course!' .

 

Its like they believe friendship and love are totally non-related. Selflessness, care and trust are strictly friendship whereas selfishness, angst, pain and mis-trust constitute love     

Yeah, been there since 2006. And that FC it's pathetic, a fail attempt. They came to the NS fc acting all passive agressive and we kicked them out.
I rarely hanged in the NS because like I said I was one at heart and didnt feel like it needed my support because I felt the story was building it pretty well. Yet once the cat got out of the bag, the rest of the forum and users became disgusting so I had to retreat to safe heaven.
We used to wear this sets of chris brown and Rhianna over sasuke and sakura but one of the mods forced us to take them away because "SS users are very sensitive" kitten.

 

I believe friendship and love are within the same concept yet it doesnt mean it's the same. Sometimes your best friend is not suitable to be your lover because of this nor that reason. Thing is in this story, kishimoto BUILT IT as something more than friendship. I still cannot believe that he did all that symbolism and all that foreshadowing and stuff for just the lulz... How can he do that and then just stamp this ending out of the blue?! Please explain to me properly... This is why I want an answer from him.

 

He doesn't talk to you anymore because of your different opinion?

I made myself pretty clear that I did not like the ending nor the end note of how things where. He also knew that I didnt like Hinata, but with the ending the Elephant in the room couldnt be ignored anymore. Also he knew pretty well that Mei Terumi and Suigetsu are among my favorite characters "Suigetsu it's my all time favorite" so he knew that I was beyond  dissapointed.

 

What kishimoto did to Mei Terumi, I find unforgivable. He could had paired her with Kakashi and used it as an excuse to retire kakashi early "kakashi: I want to get married already ok? bye" or even with suigetsu, she likes young fine men and Suigetsu is Kirigakure's strongest so why not?

So yeah, He doesnt reply to me anymore nor talks to me, nada. Other people are like "hey why dont you come to the KL to discuss anymore, and I am like... are you ***** kidding me? It's filled of people that believe love is this mythical creature that doesnt exist, a fantasy that in truth it's one god awful monster that is responsible for a lot of misery in marriages and divorces, That or they just dont care about the story nor understand how a story is built wathevs...

[Codus N]

Actually, according to the movie spoilers, Suigetsu ends up becoming the leader of the 7 swordsmen. But yeah, Kishi could've at least shown him escorting Chojuuro to the summit. But I think Jump didn't give him enough pages to work with. If they had allowed him to do a 40-page chapter at 700, I think he could've been able to tie up more loose ends.

[Nar123]

I can't believe this... So the naruto fandom in NF are actually supporting this interview????
I heard most of them were mad with kishis obvious disrespect for womans!

[KnS]

Especially those saying things like "staying with an abuser isn't always bad. It shows how much you love a person".

 

To me, this is the most egregious aspect of Kishimoto's failure.  It sickens me to think what he has offered up as good or appropriate in romantic relationships to an impressionable demographic.

 

If because of Kishimoto's utterly reprehensible portrayal of love in this story one single girl anywhere in the world makes the mistake of believing that a guy like Sasuke could ever change....  If one girl makes the mistake of turning away from the possibility of love with a good guy in the hopes that the one she is addicted to "saving" will see the light and suddenly care about her....  he ought to be jailed.

 

If this is truly Kishimoto's twisted views on love, I feel sorry for his wife and children.  And I feel sorry for anyone who thinks the way NH and SS were written is a triumph of love and something worth celebrating.  It's really sick.

So we are all now officially not going to watch the movie right? RIGHT?

 

I didn't even read the last two chapters.  There's no way I'm watching this movie.

But Naruto moving on from someone who actually DID seem to be showing interest back and had a great friendship with = not a terrible character.

 

And that's on top of the fact that he abandoned his nindo to do it.  That's twice as bad.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

To me, this is the most egregious aspect of Kishimoto's failure.  It sickens me to think what he has offered up as good or appropriate in romantic relationships to an impressionable demographic.

 

If because of Kishimoto's utterly reprehensible portrayal of love in this story one single girl anywhere in the world makes the mistake of believing that a guy like Sasuke could ever change....  If one girl makes the mistake of turning away from the possibility of love with a good guy in the hopes that the one she is addicted to "saving" will see the light and suddenly care about her....  he ought to be jailed.

 

If this is truly Kishimoto's twisted views on love, I feel sorry for his wife and children.  And I feel sorry for anyone who thinks the way NH and SS were written is a triumph of love and something worth celebrating.  It's really sick.

 

I didn't even read the last two chapters.  There's no way I'm watching this movie.

 

And that's on top of the fact that he abandoned his nindo to do it.  That's twice as bad.

You didn't read the last two?

[rocci]

You didn't read the last two?

I didn't read too.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So I guess those who read should be considered sole survivor.

[Namaenash]

I think I really should donate my volumes. It's only like 6 but yeah, this stings.

 

I did with mine. My hubby told me that I should not donate things just because I want to discard it --it doesn't sound morally correct. So, I discarded it by giving it away to 'unwanted items collector' :)

 

Not much as well, only the manga (up till volume 63?), few DVDs, calendars, plush and artworks. When the uncle who collect the junk asked me what was inside the box, I told him it was “unused books, outdated calendars and spoiled DVDs”. The fact that I can say such words without any remorse did surprise my hubby :) No regrets, no sadness, no joy, no attachment.

 

The last two chapters were so powerful, so much so that it could easily convert me --a ‘die-hard’ female fan into someone so detached with the series. A female fan who used to ask her circles to try and read the series, into someone who would never recommend it to anyone she knew.

 

I'm a mother and a wife, but first and foremost I'm a woman. I started reading Naruto 13-14 years back mainly due to the depiction of Sakura which seems to be a story about female character that develops and grows. Willing to learn from her mistakes and become stronger to protect her loved ones. I also read it for Naruto, the one who never gives up to protect his loved ones. The last 2 chapters simply ruined both characters.

 

Few weeks ago, I could still have some respect to Kishimoto, since the author can have his own way on his story, no matter how lousy it is. However, few days ago, upon reading the train of thoughts from Kishimoto on his view about 'love' (what this topic is discussing). I've totally lost all my respect. This isn't about certain characters depiction anymore, this is about sending messages to younger generation.

 

 

I suppose for those who think otherwise, or for those who think that the canon pairings are 'great', I would advise them to re-read the manga again after 5-10 years. After they have exposed to many events in life. Only by then they will understand what we're feeling today about the manga and its ending. I bet by then they would have the same thoughts as we have today.

 

Having said that only one manga left to complete for me... and by then, I will probably stop reading manga again. Hm... I never thought my love for japanese manga would end in a sad mood...

[ramenanmitsu]

If this is truly Kishimoto's twisted views on love, I feel sorry for his wife and children.  And I feel sorry for anyone who thinks the way NH and SS were written is a triumph of love and something worth celebrating.  It's really sick.

And just when I thought that guy couldn't disgust me any further, I found out that he had a daughter.

How can he not think about if HIS daughter was in the same position? Anyone with a daughter would think twice about making these statements because they would first stop and think "what if it was my daughter?"

But then again, unsurprisingly, I can imagine him telling her that, "all men with a problem has a reason to act so and we must be understanding."

[narusakurama]

Kishimoto has a daughter , right ? (Ramen just confirmed he does ) Can't imagine what advise he will give her when she will have her first crush ... (My child , if you like him cause he is handsome and cool , then you must marry him . In the meantime just make sure to stalk him all the time , he will notice you eventually . )

Edited by narusakurama, 22 November 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[archangel]

Kishimoto has a daughter , right ? (Ramen just confirmed he does ) Can't imagine what advise he will give her when she will have her first crush ... (My child , if you like him cause he is handsome and cool , then you must marry him . In the meantime just make sure to stalk him all the time , he will notice you eventually . )

LOL (that's all I can say )

[Akashi]

This whole situation reminds of Hannibal fandom: bigger part of fans are just blind apologists who put Hannibal on pedestal, going on about how divine and sophisticated he is.. murders and eats people? kittening up the minds and lives of his patients? childhood trauma. who cares? look what an amazing human being he is.

 

Our society is really kittened up.. and it seems that many modern "writers" and companies they work for make a good fortune out of it.

[TouKen4Life3g]

This whole situation reminds of Hannibal fandom: bigger part of fans are just blind apologists who put Hannibal on pedestal, going on about how divine and sophisticated he is.. murders and eats people? kittening up the minds and lives of his patients? childhood trauma. who cares? look what an amazing human being he is.
 
Our society is really f**cked up.. and it seems that many modern "writers" and companies they work for make a good fortune out of it.

I need to start writing.