331 replies to this topic

[Khaleesi]

It's not fear, but everything else. Contracts, homophobia where they work, what people considers to be part of "kids show", economic support that they lose because of its "adult content" already, etc.

[firegirl]

People really need to understand that its illegal in other countries to show same sex parings. This is NOT an anime, this is an western cartoon which is hugely popular world wide. In book 4 you can see the development of their feelings. Book three shows the development of friendship to best friends, but since Korra was connected to Asami through letters, they progressed their romantic feelings off screen especially Korra's.

 

The blush from Korra should of been a huge indicator also the Kataang parallels. Now I know people think they wanted to do something different with Korra, but LETS FACE IT. Bryke loved Kataang and their relationship. They gave Korrasami all those parallels from Asami holding Korra on Naga like Katara with Aang on Appa. To Asami being Korra's rock like Katara was for Aang.

 

It was very obvious where they were going. Bryke also showed Makorra as an parallel to Zutara. Especially during beyond the wilds.

 

ATLA is in their DNA, and for their paring they like the Avatar to have someone that can ground them, not argue with them not but heads like Makorra, someone that can be there for them.

 

In a way out of all the characters of team avatar Asami was the one that made Korra feel human and was always emotional support. In the end after Korra finally recovered from her PTSD She can see Asami's really cares about her, which is why she suggested the vacation and also apologized about her absence. 

 

What occurred is a reserve Kataang. Asami's feelings were VERY obvious through book 1-3. Korra's only began around reunion ep 7. In a way its kind of like when Katara started to realize her feelings after Aang kissed her. (She might of thought about him and her in season 2 but it was during the eclipse episode that she really started to think of their relationship, remember she was confused during the embers island players)

 

Korra and Katara were suitable with there feelings, while Aang and Asami were obvious. Honestly during book 1 and 2 I really thought Asami had a one sided crush at some point. Even if she went back with Mako, that was only because she was in need of comfort, like we have to remember her whole company fell apart before she kissed him. She was at her lowest point and she needed someone.

Edited by firegirl, 23 December 2014 - 08:41 PM.

[sushi.]

I've read both those rants you posted Nami, I even follow Ikkin because they are usually onpoint. Except when it comes to shipping apparently. I can't believe they expected Makorra. x) Their ship ended in book 2, and they barely had any moments at all in book 3. When Mako went to Zaheer's prison with Korra, it was more of a lifechanging fieldtrip with Mako(ring a bell?) than something that could revive their romance. Korrasami began where Makorra ended. They've been very touchy, intimate, and supportive for 2 seasons. Everytime they hug they cling onto eachother like frickin leeches. This is a fine summary of what happened between them. But that isn't even half of it. I remember in the reunion episode, Korra had an argument both Mako and Asami. The difference was so clear, and I not a coincidence I believe. Mako blamed Korra for Wu's kidnapping, and Korra snapped right back at him. Their dynamic hadn't changed. When Asami got frustrated on Korra's well intended advice about her father, she got angry for the first time. But Korra, even though she is hot-tempered, was the one who was calm and never got angry back. You can not click on that link and then say that KS happened at the last minute, that is denial. The only reason KS shippers doubted it happening was because of heteronormativity, making a queer couple canon on nick is a bold move. I myself expected an open and slightly implied ending, and was pleasantly surprised. It's just like those NS shippers who feared Kishi would choose the money over the story.

 

The second tumblr user, made a list of missed opportunities, but that doesn't work if you disregard what they got. She could've explained why that wasn't enough, but she ignored it all. Asami may not have joined Korra to the South pole, but do not you remember that she offered to?? Don't forget that even though Mako and Korra were the narratives of Resemblances, the Korrasami moment in that episode was far from platonic.

gay spoilers

The only reason Bryke confirmed Korrasami was because of the fan reaction. Not because they wanted to defend their kitten. There were still people bickering about the ending, and they wanted to smooth things out. They are on tumblr and know what fans think. Asami and Korra weren't officially girfriends on the avatar wikia until they confirmed they were canon, and now they are also on the list of animated lgbt characters on wikipedia. Bryke wanted to make lgbt represantation, and made sure that no one could dodge what they wrote because they saw how many that tried, be it with hetero-lens, makorra-lens or whatsoever.

 

All in all, the only thing I agree with about their posts is Asami's development. She(and Bolin too frankly) has been casted aside for all seasons for being a plot device. Bolin didn't even get a moment to conclude his character! Bryke made them both unnecessarily suffer. They killed Asami's father because they didn't have time for a more detailed redemption, when they could've showed him in more than two episodes. So they took the quick route and redeemed him by squashing him in front of Asami's eyes. And Asami is half of Korrasami, so of course her lack of development drags down the ship. But that doesn't mean that the bad outnumbers the good, or that a relationship with Korra would do Asami disservice.

 

Also if you wanna bring tumblr warriors up here, all korrasami shippers should check out sato-mobile and rcnano13's rants. : )

[firegirl]

http://littlekorrasa...shed-and-out-of

 

Pretty much summed it up tbh. 

[Radra]

They are better than kishimoto.
No one can come close to Kishimoto's level of ruined endings

Korrasami had build up, if you didn't saw it, as the authors put it, you were seeing the series through hetero lens.
Makorra was finished at season 2, it was the canon pair for book 1 but when they found out Nick wanted more seasons instead of animating "the search", separating mako and korra in season 2 was their main idea.
Bryan said he was the first Korrasami shipper back at season 1 he toyed with the idea. He build both of them as very close friends in season 3 and added more hints about the progression of their relationship in season 4, their past relationship with mako was just one of the many things that made the two related


Seriously guys, makorra could have been endgame but it would see as a bigger asspull than Korrasami. Makorra romantic relationship finished back at book 2, now they are past that and really close friends.


Honestly a clean slate with everyone as friends ending would made more sense but I can understand what was the foundation for this Korra ending we got and it didn't destroy the main characters feelings, used retcons, destroyed and regressed other characters like kishimoto despicable ending.

 

Difference in opinion, I guess. They are no different from Kishi.

 

That is just a convenient excuse. Hetero lens was the logical way to look at the Korrasami relationship because there was nothing that pointed towards them having a romantic relationship. Asami and Korra both dated a dude afterall and they never had any attraction to any female character in the show. 

 

The creators are getting away with Korrasami because they messed up the Makorra/MakoAsami pairings and also the fact that relationships between two characters in general can be twisted to fit peoples fantasies.

 

 

I said it earlier, all the pairings in LOK are kitten. The best ending like you said would have been for all of them to end up being close friends or maybe if they had  introduced a new character that would have just fixed the crap they did to the characters.

 

This is why I said they wrote themselves into a corner with the romance that they decided to just make the Korrasami pairing canon. They have already admitted to making kitten up as they go so I don't see why people are acting like it was so hinted and we were all blind to it lol

Edited by Radra, 23 December 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

At least the debate here is much two-sided than at Naruto. Naruto is literally all BS. Here, well I see both sides to the point I'll say "Yeah!" for each posted argument.

[Nar123]

 
Difference in opinion, I guess. They are no different from Kishi.
 
That is just a convenient excuse. Hetero lens was the logical way to look at the Korrasami relationship because there was nothing that pointed towards them having a romantic relationship. Asami and Korra both dated a dude afterall and they never had an attraction to any female character in the show.
 
The creators are getting away with Korrasami because they messed up the Makorra/MakoAsami pairings and also the fact that relationships between two characters in general can be twisted to fit peoples fantasies.
 
 
I said it earlier, all the pairing in LOK are kitten. The best ending like you said would have been for all of them to end up being close friends or maybe if they had  introduced a new character that would have just fixed the crap they did to the characters.
 
This is why I said they wrote themselves into a corner with the romance that they decided to just make Korrasami pairing canon.

Still better than Naruto, mate
At least the korra ending didn't use retcons, asspulls and such

Edited by Nar123, 23 December 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Still better than Naruto, mate
At least the korra ending didn't use retcons, asspulls and such

This and beyond.

[Nami]

At least the debate here is much two-sided than at Naruto. Naruto is literally all BS. Here, well I see both sides to the point I'll say "Yeah!" for each posted argument.

 

Nah, not so sure it is. Maybe you think that because over here we all shipped NS. If you look through some NH and SS tumblr posts or discussions, they think the ending was perfect and make rants about how their ship was foreshadowed long ago. There'll always be people who like it no matter how stupid Kishi gets.

[Lady_duckish]

 

This woman has been writing fan songs and covering atla music for a while. She's really good i hope the right people are looking at her (:

 

 

[TouKen4Life3g]

 
Nah, not so sure it is. Maybe you think that because over here we all shipped NS. If you look through some NH and SS tumblr posts or discussions, they think the ending was perfect and make rants about how their ship was foreshadowed long ago. There'll always be people who like it no matter how stupid Kishi gets.

That's not the point. The movie don't even do it justice. It all forced and it don't even used the past manga to make it work. Only two and others are exclusives from movie. Korra didn't use a kittening movie. The worst part is the past literally got nothing but NS and in anime, it's even much worse. You know as I do that they pushed NS like how Lucy/Natsu got pushed in anime. Trust me, Naruto is far worse. I still haven't finish my LAP but again, the fact he used Shadow clone at age 8, why the kitten should you care anymore...

[Radra]

Still better than Naruto, mate
At least the korra ending didn't use retcons, asspulls and such

 

In the end, crap is still crap

 

You can say one is better than the other but in the end, they are both crap. That is enough for me to put them on the same kitten level.

 

 

Nah, not so sure it is. Maybe you think that because over here we all shipped NS. If you look through some NH and SS tumblr posts or discussions, they think the ending was perfect and make rants about how their ship was foreshadowed long ago. There'll always be people who like it no matter how stupid Kishi gets.

 

Exactly!

 

This is what I am seeing here with Korrasami. The romance was poor but people are pretending it was fine and foreshadowed even though the creators have already said that they make stuff up as they go.

[soraandven]

 

Development isn't the sole drive for an good romance. You can't just have development on it's own, it needs to be GOOD development. I found this post on tumblr that really resonates with me as of why this ending irks me so much:

 

"There is no change in my thoughts. Bryke barely develops their so-called Korrasami romance. (But then again they are on a track record for that). They made it CLEAR from the get go they wanted their shallow problematic Makorra. Always making excuses for it and Mako and Korra and their soap opera triangle drama. 

They did not do this to be progressive. They didn’t care about it, they wanted their drama infested triangles and Makorra.

Book 1 was originally all that was going to be it, never forget that.

Mako and Korra are supposedly “realistic” and “soulmates”. Never forget that. They tried defending their love triangles and Mako and Korra’s selfish actions in the name of their TRUE OTP, Makorra, never forget that.

Korrasami has jumped in popularity to the most popular pairing now, and Korra’s ratings had dropped so Nick pulled it off air. Keep that in mind.

Bryke, the guys who claimed back in ATLA would never sacrifice what they wanted for the sake of pandering to the fans…did exactly that.

They want you guys to stop criticizing. They want you to forget all that crap they put you through. They are waving korrasami in your face like it’s a shiny new toy in hopes you’ll forget that they kept breaking all your toys.

And what’s sad is it’s actually working. People are forgetting why they were mad at Bryke and Korra and all they put us through and all the disappointments all because that shiny new toy. People are praising them and they are lapping it up and spewing crap because they managed to get away with bs’ing us and are back to people kissing their butts. They used to be on top of the world, but then were knocked down when we realized what poor writers they are. So instead of trying they kept throwing new shiny toys at us and hope it would distract us from that. One of those being forcing korrasami."

 

Long story short, the only reason Korrasami happened was because Bryke was aware of how popular it became. They can say they shipped it from day one, but I don't believe them, just like you guys don't believe when Kishimoto makes his excuses. I still think Korrasami is an poorly developed romance, were Asami sole existance is to atend to all of Korra needs, because Korra herself could never be bothered to ask Asami how she feels or what she wants. Never mind Korra totally justified cheating that she never apologized for. 

 

yup makorra was the original endgame

[sushi.]

yup makorra was the original endgame

not surprising, coming from one who doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle.

[soraandven]

i do remember that lok was suppose to end with season 1, which is why the pace was so fast with only 11-12 episodes, right?

 

i do remember that lok was suppose to end with season 1, which is why the pace was so fast with only 11-12 episodes, right?

correct luffy

[Radra]

 

Development isn't the sole drive for an good romance. You can't just have development on it's own, it needs to be GOOD development. I found this post on tumblr that really resonates with me as of why this ending irks me so much:

 

"There is no change in my thoughts. Bryke barely develops their so-called Korrasami romance. (But then again they are on a track record for that). They made it CLEAR from the get go they wanted their shallow problematic Makorra. Always making excuses for it and Mako and Korra and their soap opera triangle drama. 

They did not do this to be progressive. They didn’t care about it, they wanted their drama infested triangles and Makorra.

Book 1 was originally all that was going to be it, never forget that.

Mako and Korra are supposedly “realistic” and “soulmates”. Never forget that. They tried defending their love triangles and Mako and Korra’s selfish actions in the name of their TRUE OTP, Makorra, never forget that.

Korrasami has jumped in popularity to the most popular pairing now, and Korra’s ratings had dropped so Nick pulled it off air. Keep that in mind.

Bryke, the guys who claimed back in ATLA would never sacrifice what they wanted for the sake of pandering to the fans…did exactly that.

They want you guys to stop criticizing. They want you to forget all that crap they put you through. They are waving korrasami in your face like it’s a shiny new toy in hopes you’ll forget that they kept breaking all your toys.

And what’s sad is it’s actually working. People are forgetting why they were mad at Bryke and Korra and all they put us through and all the disappointments all because that shiny new toy. People are praising them and they are lapping it up and spewing crap because they managed to get away with bs’ing us and are back to people kissing their butts. They used to be on top of the world, but then were knocked down when we realized what poor writers they are. So instead of trying they kept throwing new shiny toys at us and hope it would distract us from that. One of those being forcing korrasami."

 

Long story short, the only reason Korrasami happened was because Bryke was aware of how popular it became. They can say they shipped it from day one, but I don't believe them, just like you guys don't believe when Kishimoto makes his excuses. I still think Korrasami is an poorly developed romance, were Asami sole existance is to atend to all of Korra needs, because Korra herself could never be bothered to ask Asami how she feels or what she wants. Never mind Korra totally justified cheating that she never apologized for. 

 

 

 

I can't believe I missed this. I agree with this 100%

 

These guys are definitely no different from Kishimoto as far as I am concerned. For them to have been justifying the kitten Makorra relationship in interviews.... just wow 

 

You can see that they really just made stuff up as they went along and now we can add pandering to fans to that list lol

[Broken Figurine]

I don't hate the Makorra fandom and I understand why they shipped the pairing, but I thought given how rushed, how turmulent, how problematic it was, people could understand that the relationship could have gone any which way. They did tack on a lot of evidence for Makorra, but they also tacked on a lot of problems. If they truly wanted Makorra and then just jumped ship last moment, they really shouldn't have done the love-triangle in which cheating happened. It makes me question MAKO in the situation. He was the one who had the choice to break up with Asami in lieu of his budding feelings for Korra, or to stay with Asami. 

 

Asami wasn't mad at Korra, because she doesn't demonize the 'other woman' like a lot of us are taught to. Men aren't so fickle that women can have the power to seduce them away from their commitments. Korra didn't cast some Avatar spell on Mako; they had feelings for each other, but as he came to acknowledge them he didn't break up with Asami--Asami noticed what was up and broke up with him. Also we need to look at the character's feelings on the matter, not our own, in how Asami felt about the situation. "I like Korra," she said. She didn't blame Korra for Mako's feelings--she blamed him. She didn't want an uncertain relationship.

 

However, in season 2 when he had broken up with Korra, it's not impossible that she was yearning for any kind of relationship--and Mako was there helping her. Of course, when she saw that he wasn't honest with Korra about their break up (convenient amnesia) we could see she wasn't pleased with him again and so they broke off their 'thing' and Asami's attention turned more to Korra and being supportive of her. This role of friendship with the main character, rather than support, was an upgrade to her position in the show. As a non-bender she had been featured very little, and when she was there was great emphasis as being 'Mako's girlfriend'. 

 

As Korra's love interest, it was her reacting to what was happening with the titular character and she wasn't put in explicitly romantic situations. Some feel she should have been, but then that would support the argument that she became Korra's relationship satellite and not Mako's. Considering the whole fiasco of the love triangle maybe a slow build up was needed for their relationship, and they had been put in some difficult positions where Korra's well being should rightly trump that particular history, which they had addressed. In the show they had explicitly agreed to move on and forgive each other from the KorraxMakoxAsami deal. Then in bonding with each other, they shared a special connection and now that the show has ended, they feel they want to progress as a couple. 

 

 

 

In the end, crap is still crap

 

You can say one is better than the other but in the end, they are both crap. That is enough for me to put them on the same sh*tty level.

 

 

Exactly!

 

This is what I am seeing here with Korrasami. The romance was poor but people are pretending it was fine and foreshadowed even though the creators have already said that they make stuff up as they go.

 

I hate to break it to you, but most of media is 'make it up as they go'. To use that as an example of poor development means that you think long-term stories as a whole are poor in development. That doesn't mean they sat down and just said "hey, let's do this just because"; there was a process and great thought involved with their decisions, but just because something isn't a carbon copy of what they originally decided on doesn't mean that it's bad. 

 

People have a difference of opinion of how it was handled--that's fine. For me, even with all the support of Makorra in season one and two, I thought it was a pretty poor pairing that was rushed. I preferred how Korrasami was handled. Their address to their fans is reasonable. Your standards of writing are your own, but equivocating a 700+ chapter work with Legend of Korra as 'the same sh*tty level' tells me that according to my standards, you're full of it. 

 

Korrasami isn't nearly as shallow, as out of the blue, and while not perfect I am genuinely surprised how upset some people are that it happened. I shipped Zutara and I GOT that Kataang happened. I didn't ship Makorra season 1 and 2 but I got that it was a valid pairing. I never have and never will ship NaruHina because of its handling. I have once, but never will again, ship SasuSaku because how terrible its message is.

 

What is so horribly bad about Korrasami? That people didn't see them as a couple and wanted them to be 'just friends'? That they feel that there wasn't enough support for a romantic relationship? Okay, but they happened AFTER the first pairing had broken up. They happened WHILE Mako and Korra were discussing that THEY were 'just friends'. Yet, now I see stuff as bad as 'oh they pandered to fans!' but as Bryan said, WHAT fans? 

 

I get that in some preferences, people think that should have been alone. I get that because of the way season 1 and 2 were handled, some people don't feel it's realistic. Those are all valid points, but again, it's like... okay, so it didn't end perfectly. Does this mean it's something to rally and hate so much? I thought here, where we KNOW what standard of horrible endings are possible--what level a creator can turn his back on a fandom, this would be a lot easier to accept. Or are we truly as we're accused of being, just bitter that we didn't get the ending we want? There's problematic endings, and then there is disappointing ones, but Korrasami is not the worst thing to happen to Legend of Korra. You may not like the pairing, but it's there and it's not hurting anyone. It's empowering some underrepresented people and we shouldn't want to take that away unless it truly deserves to be under a magnifying glass. That is FAR more than we can say about NaruHina or SasuSaku. 

[firegirl]

Makorra was endgame for book 1 only. For god sake they thought it was a one shot, hence the horrific pacing of the triangle. Also do remember that Bryan stated he was the first Korrasami shipper and I do recall him saying he was playing with the idea of it.

 

One quote from Asami is quite questionable tbh. "I like Korra" 

[Radra]

@ Broken Figurine

 

My problem is simply the way some people are trying to justify Korrasami and it is reminding me too much of how Naruhina/SasuSaku fans where justifying the naruto ending.

 

Korrasami was the better option at the end of the day, Yes, but it was executed poorly and people are ignoring that and acting like it doesn't matter.

 

I am quite the pervert and nothing makes me more happy that Korra and Asami will be making sweet love to each other in canon. I am glad that they picked Korrasami instead of Makorra because that was a useless pair after what they did to it.

 

However, this doesn't change the fact that Korrasami was poorly handled. So it is not that I hate Korrasami it is just that I want people to stop pretending like the pairing was totally hinted, badass and awesome with only minor flaws. A fools errand, I know.

 

Kishimoto wrote a story for 15 years. You can somewhat understand the idiot losing his way after writing a story for so long but these Korra guys spent a shorter time on legend of Korra and still they could not write a good romance subplot? really? maybe I gave them too much credit.

 

Of course, writers most of the time make changes to their original story as the write, and I am not saying that is bad or stupid. I am simply saying that the Korra guys made this Korrasami thing close to the end of the story and people are now acting like the whole thing was planned and hinted very early. It's not as if I cant see the Korrasami hints in the the final season. It is just that they did a poor job because the hints are only "obvious": now because of the ending.

 

This is all I would say on this matter.

Edited by Radra, 23 December 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[sushi.]

^What would you have made different? What made it so bad? I ship Korra and Asami, but I want to seperate my happiness for shipping victory and the writing quality. For example, just generally I would've challenged Su's unequal treatment of Kuvira and Bataar. Apparently she was like a daughter to her. She should've questioned herself on where she'd handled Kuvira wrong. Even though Bataar was in no way better than Kuvira, all he got was a hand to hold and no there is no sign of him ending up behind bars. Kuvira however, even after she surrenders and apologizes to Su, is still scolded by her. I felt so sorry for her then, but it was brushed off. And like I've said, Hiroshi's death was very unnecessary.

 

Back to KS though, I personally would've not pooped on Asami's character and given her more screentime. I would've planted the KS seed of maybe not romance, but at least friendship much earlier. Their development wasn't too late, it's just when they have literally nothing between them for the first two seasons you notice Bryke make up things as they go. That doesn't mean Korrasami is an asspull or was handled the last minute. Two seasons is enough of development, but their relationship change from book 2 to three was a bit abrupt. From book 3 and then on however, was done wonderful imo.

Edited by sushi., 23 December 2014 - 11:22 PM.