526 replies to this topic

[Don-kun]

I agree with dark here, I check every forum to see if someone would mention it but not even the SS fans did.

 

Kishi remove the Uchiha clan being noting but problem or mental illness that becomes dangerous when someone close die, while is truth that they develop a special powers when a close one die is also truth that there where being influence to believe the Senju were there mortal enemies and one wishing to end these eternal fights like Madara did at a young age could easily be influence by someone evil giving them false hope of peace. Now if we remove the constant battle and that tablet who by the way show them how to acquire MS and EMS there won't a reason to believe that another Uchiha will fallow that same pact, this is not how you end a Manga.

 

To make a long story short the Uchiha descendant will no longer be a treat to humanity since Kishi made the last Uchiha learn that there were being manipulated and he also remove that belief that all Uchiha race were noting but a time boom and made them victims of an evil mind.

 

Do I blame the Uchihas for fallowing the false hope and allow them self to be in this position? Yes but I also believe that this will never happen again.

[Nostradamus]

I agree with dark here, I check every forum to see if someone would mention it but not even the SS fans did.

 

Kishi remove the Uchiha clan being noting but problem or mental illness that becomes dangerous when someone close die, while is truth that they develop a special powers when a close one die is also truth that there where being influence to believe the Senju were there mortal enemies and one wishing to end these eternal fights like Madara did at a young age could easily be influence by someone evil giving them false hope of peace. Now if we remove the constant battle and that tablet who by the way show them how to acquire MS and EMS there won't a reason to believe that another Uchiha will fallow that same pact, this is not how you end a Manga.

 

To make a long story short the Uchiha descendant will no longer be a treat to humanity since Kishi made the last Uchiha learn that there were being manipulated and he also remove that belief that all Uchiha race were noting but a time boom and made them victims of an evil mind.

 

Do I blame the Uchihas for fallowing the false hope and allow them self to be in this position? Yes but I also believe that this will never happen again.

Yeah but here's the thing. Regardless if they were manipulated or not, the fact of the matter still remains that Uchiha lose themselves if someone close to them dies.

Even if you remove everything that was written on the tablet, it still doesn't change anything.

[luffyq1]

None of that justifies what he did to Sasuke after that. Itachi deserves a ton of blame for Sasuke being on his current path. This doesn't absolve Sasuke of anything, but Itachi made it a point to direct him down the path he went for much of his childhood.

That decision is all Itachi.

Yep.

[Don-kun]

Yeah but here's the thing. Regardless if they were manipulated or not, the fact of the matter still remains that Uchiha lose themselves if someone close to them dies.

Even if you remove everything that was written on the tablet, it still doesn't change anything.

I now what you are saying and I mention this in my post too but what I am referring to is the fact that Kishi use this flashback in a way to excuse the restoration of the Uchiha clan because when we acknowledge Tobirama's words he mention that there were a time boom and by looking back we could clearly see that this cursed clan has being the source of all confrontation so the best way to avoid another event like this in the future was by exterminating all the remaining Uchiha's or avoiding any resurrection of that clan, but now that we know that there was being influence in all the things that happen in the past, Kishi kind of make up a deception excuse to justify why the Uchiha clan should be be restored again and a in way he also make sure Sasuke does not die or even end his life to remove the cursed clan from humanity.

Edited by Don-kun, 18 June 2014 - 10:19 PM.

[NS4Life]

So correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yin Hagoromo/Hamura=Sasuke

Yang Hagoromo=Naruto

 

How can Naruto remind Kaguya of Hagoromo? Is it because they happen to be two guys fighting her that reminds her of her sons?

 

So the Uzumaki are just story fodder? Why wasn't Naruto just a Senju. I feel like the only Clans that matter are the Uchiha and Senju.

 

If we don't get anything about Uzumaki I will be highly disappointed.

 

So tired of the Uchiha clan. Sigh.......

Edited by NS4Life, 18 June 2014 - 10:26 PM.

[Nostradamus]

I now what you are saying and I mention this in my post too but what I am referring to is the fact that Kishi use this flashback in a way to excuse the restoration of the Uchiha clan because when we acknowledge Tobirama's words he mention that there were a time boom and by looking back we could clearly see that this cursed clan has being the source of all confrontation so the best way to avoid another event like this in the future was by exterminating all the remaining Uchiha's or avoiding any resurrection of that clan, but now that we know that there was being influence in all the things that happen in the past, Kishi kind of make up a deception excuse to justify why the Uchiha clan should be be restored again and a in way he also make sure Sasuke does not die or even end his life to remove the cursed clan from humanity.

I'm a bit tired so I misunderstood a couple of parts from your previous post.

Anyway I still say the best ending is just to kill Sasuke. Have him dying as a hero who sacrifice himself, getting the redemption for all he did and ending the Uchiha love nonsense once and for all. No more Uchiha, no more Sharingans, no more dictators, etc. 

[Don-kun]

I'm a bit tired so I misunderstood a couple of parts from your previous post.

Anyway I still say the best ending is just to kill Sasuke. Have him dying as a hero who sacrifice himself, getting the redemption for all he did and ending the Uchiha love nonsense once and for all. No more Uchiha, no more Sharingans, no more dictators, etc. 

I understand you.

Anyway we think alike since I also wish for the same thing you do.

[Atheck]

So correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yin Hagoromo/Hamura=Sasuke

Yang Hagoromo=Naruto

 

How can Naruto remind Kaguya of Hagoromo? Is it because they happen to be two guys fighting her that reminds her of her sons?

 

So the Uzumaki are just story fodder? Why wasn't Naruto just a Senju. I feel like the only Clans that matter are the Uchiha and Senju.

 

If we don't get anything about Uzumaki I will be highly disappointed.

 

So tired of the Uchiha clan. Sigh.......

 

Because they represent a fundamental component of humans which they inherited from their mother. It's sounding more and more like Kaguya was the original distributor of Yin and Yang chakra. The fact that they're acting with the expressed purpose of stopping Kaguya's plans might be the impetus for her remembering her two children, but it's being shown that there are actual similarities between the four of them. Hagoromo happens to bear a strong likeness to Naruto and Hamura came across as having that calm, aloof swagger that Sasuke is known for having. Even the collar of his robes is open like Sasuke's. 

 

The Uzumaki have a purpose. It's just undisclosed at the moment. We should learn more about them once Hamura's story is brought into the limelight; that's assuming Naruto's distant ancestor was the Sage's sibling. 

[NS4Life]

Thanks.

 

I thought it was interesting that they showed Hagoromo showing his sun sign on his right hand, the same one he gave Naruto. Did his brother have the moon sign?

 

I know a lot of people don't want this, but I am holding out for Naruto to get the Rinnegan. Why is obito still there? Will he give his eyes away before he dies?

 

Just wondering.

[Lid]

What on earth did I just read?  I really don't get what Kishimoto's doing anymore, he keeps digging a bigger and bigger hole and filling it with convoluted nonsense. I want to like this manga, I really do, but I just don't anymore. Maybe I'll just have to check in to see whether Sakura ends up getting to do anything worthwhile and then I'll just move on and pretend the manga ended with the Pein arc.

 

That's the same thing I was thinking when I was reading this chapter. I didn't have a problem that it was an explanatory chapter, my problem was with what it was explaining. 

 

I mean, every week it's this new crazy plot thread that wasn't built up. Instead it feels like it comes out of left field. 

 

One thing that I ask is, remember when this manga was about ninjas?

[sushi.]

perfect illustration of the villains guys

 

this is it this is the series. kishi tricked me so many times about who the big boss was :c

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

One thing that I ask is, remember when this manga was about ninjas?

 

Those were the days.  I miss it.

[Lid]

perfect illustration of the villains guys

 

this is it this is the series. kishi tricked me so many times about who the big boss was :c

 

That is just perfect, 

[Gojira]

perfect illustration of the villains guys

 

this is it this is the series. kishi tricked me so many times about who the big boss was :c

And we still got one more to go.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah but here's the thing. Regardless if they were manipulated or not, the fact of the matter still remains that Uchiha lose themselves if someone close to them dies.
Even if you remove everything that was written on the tablet, it still doesn't change anything.

It does resolve the problem is that after they get those powers they look into the hoax that is written by BlackZetsu then they think that following that brilliant plan will make them saviors, if you look closely all the uchihas who followed that path believed they were some sort of saviors, Madara/Obito.

Whatever you want to believe, Dark.
 
I already showed several evidence and shown manga proof to say what it isn't, but I have learned that even with manga evidence or any evidence to prove you wrong, you still believe the other way. You want to think it is teleporting that's fine.

You proved nothing.
He did used a jutsu similar to shushin but doesnt explain how Madara got stabbed before, and how he made Madara teleport to where he and Naruto landed their jutsus earlier.
So therefore how it works is unclear and will be explained furthermore.
You showed no proof and your post is a big "DEAL WITH IT".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 June 2014 - 12:43 AM.

[tekopi]

So correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yin Hagoromo/Hamura=Sasuke

Yang Hagoromo=Naruto

 

How can Naruto remind Kaguya of Hagoromo? Is it because they happen to be two guys fighting her that reminds her of her sons?

 

So the Uzumaki are just story fodder? Why wasn't Naruto just a Senju. I feel like the only Clans that matter are the Uchiha and Senju.

 

If we don't get anything about Uzumaki I will be highly disappointed.

 

So tired of the Uchiha clan. Sigh.......

I think the reason as to why the Uzumaki never come into the picture (yet) is because, as I said in my previous post, it's a clan that comes a few generation later from some Senju that decide to 'break tradition' and married off to someone from outside the close relative circle, meaning they married someone that is not a Senju. This is almost similar to the concept of Hyuuga's main and branch family. Rather, Uzumaki and Senju didn't discriminate and keep their clans as equals and maintain their bonds as distant relatives.

 

Those were the days.  I miss it.

Wasn't even the way Kishimoto make the story plot shows what a ninja is? I think that ninja is strongly connected with the image of deception. And up until now, we are subtly being shown that there are so many deception that occurs, even to his readers. LOL.

Edited by tekopi, 19 June 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Nate River]

I think the reason as to why the Uzumaki never come into the picture (yet) is because, as I said in my previous post, it's a clan that comes a few generation later from some Senju that decide to 'break tradition' and married off to someone from outside the close relative circle, meaning they married someone that is not a Senju. This is almost similar to the concept of Hyuuga's main and branch family. Rather, Uzumaki and Senju didn't discriminate and keep their clans as equals and maintain their bonds as distant relatives.
 
Wasn't even the way Kishimoto make the story plot shows what a ninja is? I think that ninja is strongly connected with the image of deception. And up until now, we are subtly being shown that there are so many deception that occurs, even to his readers. LOL.

Indeed. He's such a master of deception he convinced most of us he knew what he was doing. Suckers.

[Nostradamus]

It does resolve the problem is that after they get those powers they look into the hoax that is written by BlackZetsu then they think that following that brilliant plan will make them saviors, if you look closely all the uchihas who followed that path believed they were some sort of saviors, Madara/Obito.

 

Actually it changes nothing and it resolves nothing. It seems you forgot the part where we found out, that the Uchiha lose their sanity when they lose someone they cared about. If the bloodline of the Uchiha continues, eventually one of them is going to love their father or mother or brother, girlfriend, boyfriend etc. so much and they're going to lose that person. And because of this, that Uchiha will decide to change the world because he/she can't dealt with it. And he/she will do this the only way they know how. By controlling people, by forcing people to submit to their will.

The only thing that tablet tells them is that, they can create a dreamworld that can control people and force them to follow your will. It doesn't change the fact that one day an Uchiha will decide to change the world by submitting people in the real world. Which is what Sasuke wants to do. He wants to became Hokage, so he can control people. He wants to create his perfect world but in the real world. He wants to be Hitler.

The only thing on that table, that actually is worth something to them is how to get the Rinnegan. If that's even written on it.

[Gojira]

No matter how you look at it there doesn't seem to a possible way to end this conclusively

 

Scenario 1: Sasuke survives and builds a world of peace with Naruto like Hagoromo planned (problem: the uchiha lineage will continue and that in itself is cause for concern)

 

Scenario 2: Sasuke dies at the end, and that's the last of any uchiha problems (problem: the reincarnation war between Ashura and Indra will eventually continue)

[James S Cassidy]

None of that justifies what he did to Sasuke after that. Itachi deserves a ton of blame for Sasuke being on his current path. This doesn't absolve Sasuke of anything, but Itachi made it a point to direct him down the path he went for much of his childhood.

That decision is all Itachi.

Wow, you guys are so quick just hang somebody for one mistake. A man could do a thousand goods deeds, but one mistake is enough to condemn him. Itachi never had that much of a choice now did he? He was kind of a double agent that had to keep up an appearance so as to stay with him the group he was spying on. It would look really suspicious if all of a sudden he just went extremely soft on his brother.

I also like the double standard on this logic where it doesn't absolve Sasuke of his crimes, but apparently he is to blame for Sasuke being the selfish jerk that he is? What ever happened to your "people should be responsible for their own actions?" If that is the case, then Sasuke turning into the man that he is now should not have been affected at all by Itachi's doing. Sasuke could have easily ignored his brother. Sasuke could have easily stayed in Konoha and chose to live a peaceful life....like Itachi wanted him to.

Should we also blame Sasuke's father and how his upbringing on how he treated his son like crap growing up? Should we blame the clan for having these high standards and not teaching their clan the values of it all?

People make their own choices. We can only be influenced by other people if we let them influence us and just as you blame Obito for him siding with Madara, then you should blame Sasuke for allowing himself to succumb to his emotions of revenge. Also, funny how when you learn the truth about Itachi and what he wanted for Sasuke....Sasuke still does the opposite and doesn't listen at all. It took a story from Hashirama to convince him not to destroy Konoha. So if Sasuke wants to be like Hitler and enslaved Konoha now, should we blame Hashirama then?

I don't see it like that because of the position Itachi was in and what he thought was the good choice of action. He wanted Sasuke to hate him so he didn't hate Konoha for what they did. He purposely wanted to take the blame so Sasuke would stay in Konoha and support it. See Konoha as the good guys, but Sasuke is just too stubborn. So Itachi influenced Sasuke by...not influencing him?

Sasuke made his own choices and it was his choice alone. Just as every other character made their choices as well.  There is no way any person can say that one action can cause the downfall of another. Hell, in Trigun they even play with this idea where Vash let the main villain go and another character blamed him because she believed Vash was the reason her father treated her mother so badly, but upon further inspection if Vash stopped him before and didn't let him go...then she never would have been born in the first place. There is more to it than just saying one can influence another because you never know what the outcome could be.

You can simplify it if you really want to like that, but Sasuke made his own choices. 

Unless you really want to get technical, then Kaguya is to blame for it all. Kaguya who basically forced the two clans to fight and altered things in the clan to better suit her needs. If her Black Zetsu never altered the tablet, then the Senju and Uchiha war would not have happened in the first place.

So I guess all the blame is on Kaguya.