381 replies to this topic

[MoonStar]

My God, Atheck! You sure went out of your way to voice that Sakura hasn't surpassed Tsunade. I don't think she has either but does it require that much detail? Also, there's nothing wrong with Sakura being a "carbon copy of Tsunade", as you put it. She's has no bloodlines, no Hidden Jutsu, no clan or ninja family traditions, nothing. All she has is 3 years of training under Tsunade to which she has to use to compete with Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi. And in any circumstance, a comparison of her performance to Naruto and Sasuke's is flawed under the understanding that they were granted a great advantage at birth. This isn't a manga about working hard to achieve great power, it's about predisposed power. Sasuke is from a clan of demigods and Naruto is the product of a prophecy and his reliance on the Kyuubi. Looking at it objectively, Sakura's accomplishments has made quite the number of characters look pitiful.

[rocci]

@moonstar
Agree, that's why I believe sakura is potentially the strongest kunoichi while didn't have kekkei genkai, family secret jutsu, or a bijuu.
She only rely on chakra control, but this thing is what make her powerful in my opinion.
Because unlike hyuga, yamanaka, Nara, akimichi, or aburame clan who only rely to their exclusive jutsu.
While sakura have a freedom to chose whatever jutsu she want. Just like kakashi or minato.
What restrict her is jutsu arsenal and chakra pool which she lack.
Now why she never perform genjutsu, that's because sakura can one shot Half naruverse character. And genjutsu only show for sharingan user, or one time genjutsu performer(kurenai and C).

@atheck
Wow atheck great job
If you don't mind, can you do that in narutoforum pairing debate thread? Because I want to see you to own theme

[Otaru]

 

I see this too, maybe a double lariat konoha syle lol

 

Lol that would be fun ^^

[Strangelove]

@Gamakushii
I see a fox and a man.
@atheck
What tsunade can do, sakura do better. And she is genjutsu type.
Is the problem because kishi never show sakura power/action?

 

I see that too...uhhh....

 

 

Kishi kind of abandoned that statement, it just means she has a high degree of chakra control...and she is able to tell when a genjutsu is active. She did so I believe with Itachi;s genjutsu at the very beginning of part 2, and then she dispelled the one cast unto Naruto.

 

I don't think it means that she herself can cast genjutsu...unless she is saving up a technique..but I doubt it.

Edited by Strangelove, 12 July 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Canadian_DJ]

@Atheck

Whoa, long ass wall of text!! And yeah im not offended at all by your points. I respect your opinion.

I agree with you that sakura hasnt surpassed tsunade but she's definitely almost there going by the theme of the manga the old generation surpasses the old aka naruto, sakura and sasuke. If you dont agree agree to disagree.

Judging by the way you put your words, looks like you think sakuras abilities compared to her team mated is pathetic and theres no competition whatsoever, im gonna have to disagree. As of now sakura hasnt been said to be in their shadows, as of chp 632 sakura said shes been in their shadows and it was pretty clear that kishi wanted us to know that shes in their league, since she said that she caught up to them. You think its irrelevant so until it is actually said in the manga or shown that shes no match with them, then im gonna stick to the fact that she's in their league. But to each their own.

I didnt say that hashirama said thats sakuras seal is stronger than tsunades, i said hashirama commented on how sakuras strength might be better than tsunades. And when characters in naruto used to say how narutos a failure and hes not talented etc, he would prove them wrong. Lets wait and see if sakura will prove hashiramas statement true or false. Hashirama might have not seen tsunade, thats why he said she might be stronger, but i think he's a talented enough ninja to know an amazing techinque from one thats not. And since he complimented sakuras strength, then that must mean something big. Again, if you still dont agree agree to disagree.

About sakuras status as heroine. Shes the heroine no doubt but Just because kishi said sakura slipped his mind doesnt mean she slipped his mind throughout the whole manga, it was just in the 2011 interview. As you can see now she hasnt slipped his mind. And i wouldnt take that comment too seriously cuz i doubt kishi would make a mistake as in "slipped his mind" so if sakura had a big role in the manga at the time that she "slipped his mind" then kishi would probably be in a pickle right now. Kishi might have neglected sakura in some situations, but that doesnt tarnish her role as heroine or mean her roles so far have been dog kitten, you say that sakura hasnt contributed to the story but i beg to differ, sakura according to the events of the manga, has contributed alot to the manga which is why shes the heroine. Sakura is the most popular female character in naruto according to her popularity, so that must mean that the japanese fanbase thinks she's a great heroine, but ofcoarse, in every fanbase there are some who.differ in opinion. Again, if you dont agree, agree to disagree.

About Sakuras next move, kishi has so many options to do with sakura, i know its gonna be badass, (heres hoping) but shes definitely not gonna be sidelined.
Im not used to debating so if i made any mistakes in my previous posts (which i corrected) i apologize.

[Otaru]

I agree with you that sakura hasnt surpassed tsunade but she's definitely almost there going by the theme of the manga the old generation surpasses the old aka naruto, sakura and sasuke. If you dont agree agree to disagree.

 

 

This.

 

It's pretty obvious it's gonna be like this

[Canadian_DJ]

I also wanted to add something to my post.

Sakura has perfectly mastered fuinjutsu the byakugo seal, and when the uzumaki clan was revealed, it was revealed that sealing as originated from the uzumakis, so theres my proof that sakura has mastered fuinjutsu.

Also, it wasnt said in the manga that tsunade was the one who made up that seal, mito uzumaki was shown to be using it, so no, tsunade didnt create that seal. And sakura doesnt need to use any chakra to keep young, so thinking logically, it means that she has more chakra focused on her chakra, speed, strength and god knows what else she uses it to enhance. Tsunade uses some of her chakra to keep her young, which logically means that she wont have as much chakra focused on her strength. Mito Uzumaki's seal and sakuras seal have one thing in common; they dont need it to keep their selves young.

And honestly, I never mentioned that sakura is gonna surpass her master just because of tsunades genes, thats a really poor argument since kishi himself never pointed out in the manga that since tsunade is half uzu half senju she's biologically stronger than sakura, so i wouldnt go into stuff kishi hasnt even touched in the manga which is irrelevant.

[sushi.]

Sakura didn't master fuinjutsu because of one seal. Fine..it's an S-class, but still.

[Otaru]

I personally think she's capable of fuinjutsu, because she's really smart, but i think she can't yet use some "real" fuinjutsu.

This seal isn't really like that. 

to me it's something a little different.

Maybe i'm wrong.

This is my first impression.

[Canadian_DJ]

Mastering fuinjutsu isnt by the amount of seals you can perform. And no, the seal that sakura, tsunade and mito mastered is fuinjutsu, its a seal and seals originated from the uzumaki. And what exactly do you mean by "real" fuinjutsu? there is no "real" fuinjutsu, you either master it with no mistakes, or you dont master it at all. Bottom line, sakura has mastered the Byakugo no in which is classified as S rank which is fuinhutsu. And we're yet to see what she has in store. Wow i had no idea this is the opinion of sakura by some people :|

[James S Cassidy]

Hmmm....I guess people never heard of the term "child prodigy" before which is very much a possible thing to occur. Sometimes there are kids that have accomplished thing that most don't do until they hit their 50s or later.

Jackie Evancho is 13 years old and she can sing as good if not better than some Opera singers we have today. She is even better than most artists on the music market at the moment.

The idea that Sakura could be just as good if not better than Tsunade at this point is a definite possibility, but just like the people who say "There is no proof she is as powerful," well there is no proof that she isn't. How many times has Kishi proved us wrong with the fact that, despite lack of evidence, things still come to pass. How many of you believed she couldn't summon slugs? Some were proven wrong on that one.

 So in my opinion, until proven otherwise I am gonna say Sakura is as powerful as Tsunade at the moment.

[Atheck]

Whoa, long ass wall of text!! And yeah im not offended at all by your points. I respect your opinion.

 
Admittedly, it's difficult to reciprocate that respect with the conditions of your post that I just thought was oddly directional. There is nothing more exasperating than intentional mismanagement of a situation. Not that you were actually doing that, but that was a forethought before reading. 
 

I agree with you that sakura hasnt surpassed tsunade but she's definitely almost there going by the theme of the manga the old generation surpasses the old aka naruto, sakura and sasuke. If you dont agree agree to disagree.

 
Kishi's thematic intentions of the young reaching a new pinnacle that the old couldn't seems to be related mostly to ideology and the quest to bring universal peace to the world. Considering that Naruto has been receiving a deus ex machina for many of his insolvable predicaments, like Nagato contentedly accepting Naruto's cryptic declaration that he would "believe in what Jiraiya believed in" after bringing up several valid arguments that Naruto failed to provide a specific answer or strategy for, it's really just a matter of time before he gets everything he wants. 
 
The aphorism could also be interpreted as referring to the youth becoming the most powerful generation as this is the culmination of the world's historical progress in ninjutsu, taijutsu, and genjutsu. As of now, many of the rookies have arguably surpassed their predecessors. Naruto and Sasuke have done so as well and Sakura is on her way to doing the same. However, this shouldn't be misconstrued that they will surpass literally everyone who came before them because quite frankly, from what we saw of Hashirama and Madara's battle, the younger generation looks pathetic in comparison. It's not just those two, when Tobirama reacted angrily at Sasuke's statement that he would destroy Konoha, everyone in the room appeared to be stunned and nervous by the intensity of the chakra that he was emitting. When have Orochimaru or Sasuke ever exhibited anything reminiscent of fear in P2? What does this imply for the older Hokages? That they're much more powerful than the fans initially gave them credit for in P1 or that they're more intimidating than anything else that we have seen in the manga? It's only thanks to these historical figures that the Alliance is still alive. 
 
The point of this tangent is to show that there is always going to be someone or some group from the past that is skilfully better than what the current generation can do. Thus far I have no reason to believe that Naruto could defeat Hashirama when he was shown to be at the mercy of his Mokuton dragon. For Naruto who is heavily dependent on their bjjuu in a fight, someone with chakra suppressant abilities is an Achilles' Heel. Moreover, Sasuke has yet to show that he could overcome Madara (when he was alive) in battle albeit he has a greater possibility of succeeding due to him not having any inherent weaknesses that Madara's techniques could exploit like with the Mokuton and bijuu. 
 
If they do overcome these two legends, then the next step will be Edo Madara (who wields Rinnegan and Mokuton) and jinchuuriki Tobi, and if they still somehow manage to surpass those two, all by themselves, then they will have the progeny of the Sage and Rikudou Sennin himself to contend with. But with everything they have currently, their statistical strengths and techniques with the consideration that this is practically the end of the manga, all of that isn't likely. 
 

Judging by the way you put your words, looks like you think sakuras abilities compared to her team mated is pathetic and theres no competition whatsoever, im gonna have to disagree.

 
It is, the scale of their respective abilities are on two completely different levels with their most recent power enhancements. Sakura's talent for analysing her opponent and counteracting anything that they unleash hasn't been touched upon since the Sasori fight; consequently, we have no reason to believe that she can grasp the attack patterns of her opponents more easily or that it is possible against Kage level opponents without outside assistance first protecting her. Any presumed improvements is speculation until the manga says otherwise.
 
I'm sure you don't need me to repeat this but Sakura is still prone to distractions even when being in the midst of a cataclysmic battle. Physical endurance remains subpar. Her agility, taijutsu skill, and combat intelligence is stagnant unless further depictions in combat argue otherwise. To be perfectly honest, I see no reason for Sakura being able to outmaneuver or surpass Naruto and Sasuke without Sage Mode, Kurama, or the Sharingan. Were it not for the collateral damage brought about by her punches and the reservoir of chakra that's now available on her forehead, Sakura would probably be inferior to Naruto and Sasuke's peak P1 counterparts. 
 
If we look over how they would match up against each other, Sasuke would characteristically enter Susanoo first and begin shooting off chakra arrows, Amaterasu magatamas, or Amaterasu arrows. Already we have an explicable and probable method for Sasuke to defeat Sakura easily as she has no dodging feats that would allow her to avoid something that a seasoned shinobi like Kabuto required enhanced perceptual sight and reflexes from senjutsu training before facing. That's if Sasuke doesn't just ignite her with a simple glance. Precognitive observation of Sakura's movements allow for Sasuke to act accordingly before she can close the distance to use taijutsu. Genjutsu dissipation capabilities are unknown, but just like with her analytical talent, no additional feats or comments have been given to suggest that she could break a Sharingan genjutsu. Not that Sasuke would use one as they aren't his cup of tea. 
 
If Sakura isn't incinerated then she will be fatally damaged with an enormous chakra arrow replacing her chest cavity; her spinal cord will be shattered as well, rendering her paralytic. Please don't try to argue that she could just do what Tsunade did and regenerate. Sakura lacks the appropriate feats to prove that she can use Byakugou jutsu or Sozo Saisei. No one except a character's most overzealous fans would lean on the excuse that they "might" be able to use an ability that they have never shown before in a hypothetical match-up like this. It's insufficient and people won't take it seriously.  
 
As for Naruto, it would be in-character for him to use Kurama's chakra almost immediately when going into a fight. Already one of the few advantages that Sakura possesses, stamina, has become void as the accumulated chakra from a girl with average level reserves couldn't hope to match the inestimable levels of strength and stamina that a bijuu of Kurama's calibre has. Now for the actual accomplishments, Naruto's speed was shown to be superior to Raikage's. Kakashi mistook him for being Minato due to the intensity of his movement causing him to resemble a yellow blur, a characteristic that's usually associated with Minato, hence the moniker "Yellow Flash".
 
We're able to gauge that the Sharingan's precog is incapable of following Raikage's greatest speed as Sasuke was still looking in the other direction when Raikage appeared on his other side. Were it not for Susanoo, he would have been decapitated. That same speed which Raikage used, Naruto outperformed and it was stated that he is able to match Raikage's shunshin. This is when he was only using a fragment of Kurama's chakra, not the entire thing. Sakura lacks the definable ability to avoid Susanoo's projectiles, it's likewise with Naruto. She'll be blitzed by either Naruto or one of his clones. 
 
In addition to the mobility increase, Kurama's chakra also provides Naruto with the ability to protract chakra arms from his body that are effective for long-ranged attacks or improvising to escape a difficult situation like what Naruto did when he used a chakra appendage to stifle the impact of the boulder that Nagato had summoned. This includes the Bijudama that he can safely unleash from a distance.
 
We aren't even accounting for the Rasenshuriken that has an impressive radius. Do you remember what the FRS's effects are? They produce countless microscopic Futon blades that cellularly damage the body. They were so numerous that Kakashi commented that even his Sharingan was unable to deduce how many blades there were exactly. If what became of Kakuzu is any indication, then Sakura won't be able to lift even a finger to perform any medical jutsu; leaving her completely immobilized and vulnerable to Naruto unleashing a final Rasengan to finish the battle. And if she's able to somehow heal the cellular devastation caused to her entire body by using the technique that we saw in her fight against Sasori, then the process will only repeat itself. He can continue materialising clones with substantiated feats that put anything Sakura has done to shame. Oh, and by the way, that Rasenshuriken used on Kakuzu was only 50% completed.
 

 
I have evidence to prove my argument here. If he were to use the Sage Mode variation of the technique then Sakura would be disintegrated like Nagato's Human Path body. Do you need proof of what became of it? Here...
 

 
Just substitute Human Realm with Sakura and the above panels are a fairly accurate depiction of what would become of her if she were to fight Naruto. I don't believe Tsuande could regenerate from that level of damage either. It literally disintegrated a person until there was nothing but part of of their head remaining. So with her situational evasion feats that require prior analysis and inferior medical ninjutsu she will somehow nullify the effects of such a dangerous jutsu? Unless you have the exterior of a monster like the 3rd Raikage or a bijuu, you're not going to tank that sort of attack. Which brings me to another point.
 
If for some reason Sakura hasn't been eclipsed by Naruto in just the regular KM state or Sage Mode, he still has the behemoth that forms when he uses all of Kurama's chakra. All of Kurama's feats would logically be given to Naruto since the chakra entity is essentially the same same as the bijuu itself. Let's go down Kurama's feats in battle throughout the manga.
 
1. Has proven to have virtually limitless reserves of chakra and stamina
2. Durability that allowed it to withstand the aforementioned Rasenshuriken with only its fur singed
3. Destroyed many of Hashirama's Shu Susenju mountainous arms with a barrage of Bijudama
4. Obliterated entire landscapes with a single Bijudama
5. Almost overcame Pain's Chibaku Tensei with only eight of its tails
6. Easily overwhelmed five other bijjuu at once; then it proceeded to match their combined strength with an attack of its own
 
You expect me to believe that Sakura's substandard feats could feasibly match the Bijudama, clones equally as powerful as Naruto, Raikage level agility, versatile chakra appendages that can be used for offence or defence, Sage Mode sensory perception, senjutsu enhanced strength, Futon Rasenshuriken, or a chakra entity that is equally powerful as Kurama with Naruto's strategic mindset. 
 
Sakura's strength feat in #632 is minuscule when compared to what the bijuu has shown. It would easily be tanked by a creature of Kurama's stature. That is, if Sakura isn't obliterated or transformed into a bloodied mush on the ground beforehand. Taijutsu doesn't work against against something like Kurama and you can't beat it through a war of attrition. The only way to win is by sealing, absorbing, or suppressing its chakra. Oh, and there's genjutsu as well, I suppose. That's what Hashirama, Minato, Naruto, Tobi, and Madara all did. 
 
You'll forgive me if I think that that opinion is absolutely preposterous. But please, if you think Sakura is able to take on demi-gods with her comparatively mediocre abilities, try and prove it. 
 

As of now sakura hasnt been said to be in their shadows, as of chp 632 sakura said shes been in their shadows and it was pretty clear that kishi wanted us to know that shes in their league,

 
She isn't though. Neither most of the fanbase or myself just take these comments at face-value and leave it at that. We want hard, physical evidence showcasing her equatable strength and power. Otherwise, the means through which she is able to compete with them remains horribly undefined and contrived. What, does she pull Hiraishin or Bansho Tenin out of nowhere to close the distance so she can land an attack? Is her speed on par with the likes of Raikage or Naruto? Making these comments amounts to nothing if you're unable to prove their validity through your actions. Realistically, Sakura could never reach the level of two naturally gifted prodigies such as Naruto and Sasuke who wield so many profoundly impacting advantages. 
 
If Sakura can't support her statements with actions, then what she says amounts to little. But I don't even think the context of her statement is being accurately interpreted by people like you. What has Sakura's intention always been concerning Team 7? To see it permanently reconstituted, yes, but she also wants to prove her worth. That she isn't just a valueless crybaby needing someone to rescue her at every turn. Sakura wants to stand alongside her teammates as an equal member. Not that she is on their level of strength, but that she can make contributions to the betterment of the group as well. It's the same for Kakashi, Sai, and Yamato. Excluding maybe Kakashi, these other members aren't even close to Naruto and Sasuke's level, yet they want to stand next to them as teammates of equal value. Does it have to be proven that Sai could match Naruto? No, because that isn't what he was referring to when he tried to help by flying towards the Jubi. The same applies to Sakura in this situation. 
 

since she said that she caught up to them.

 
Prove it. Bring up an exact method for her to counteract everything that Naruto and Sasuke wields that was referenced above with feats and stats that she has. 
 

You think its irrelevant so until it is actually said in the manga or shown that shes no match with them,

 
I don't think it's relevant, yes. Because there is nothing that reinforces her claim which I think you're misconstruing. I take it with as much value as Naruto thinking he could take Kakashi on in a direct confrontation at the beginning of P1. 
 

then im gonna stick to the fact that she's in their league. But to each their own.

 
Once again, prove that she was referring to being their combative equal and not just acting as a teammate who is able to contribute. Present logical and feasible counterpoints for everything mentioned about Naruto and Sasuke's fighting abilities. 
 

I didnt say that hashirama said thats sakuras seal is stronger than tsunades,i said hashirama commented on how sakuras strength might be better than tsunades.

 
Remember the time the kages were fighting madara and tsunade released her yin seal and it was the byakugo jutsu, now as we know from what sakura's capable of, her byakugo seal is just as strong, or maybe better, (hashiramas comment) as tsunades released yin seal the name also suggests that its just as strong or even stronger,
 
You referred to Hashirama's comment when addressing how Sakura's seal was "just as strong or maybe better than Tsunade's released Yin Seal"; i.e, you meant Sakura's debunked aptitude to distribute Sozo Saisei to the Alliance shinobi. Either you're contradicting yourself now, there is a misinterpretation of the text, or the phraseology was poorly worded. 
 

And when characters in naruto used to say how narutos a failure and hes not talented etc, he would prove them wrong.

 
He proved them wrong because of advantages or circumstances that allowed him to succeed. Let me run down the list of a few of Naruto's accomplishments...
 
1. Defeated Haku - Without Kurama, a chakra entity that was sealed into him during infancy, enhancing his strength and speed to where he could follow Haku's movements, he would have been put into a death-like and left for Zabuza to finish off later on .
 
2. Defeated Kiba - Okay, this was accomplished entirely by Naruto's own merits and not with the assistance of any bijuu or other people. He warrants credit for defeating his opponent here.
 
3. Defeated Neji - Once again, this only occurred because Naruto had Kurama available to reopen his chakra system after it was thoroughly shut down by Neji's 64 Palms. Were it not for Minato having the foresight to provide Naruto with a potent advantage in order to defend himself, he would have likely died by Neji's hand because he's too bull-headed to acknowledge when he's been defeated. Unless you're going to tell me that Naruto would conjure up a deus ex machina so he can win when his best abilities with all the chakra needed at his disposal were promptly countered and made ineffectual by Neji's superior taijutsu skills and doujutsu. 
 
4. Kabuto - Managed an offensive because Kabuto had come down with a bad case of plot induced stupidity inhibiting him from just kicking Naruto away before the Rasengan could be used. Not that it succeeded because Kabuto's applauded medical expertise allowed him to endure. Naruto was left unconscious and he would have been killed if Tsuande hadn't been around to protect him. 
 
5. Sasuke - Naruto definitely improved as he showed when he was capable matching and getting the better of Sasuke at the beginning of their fight. However, when Sharingan lifted itself from unusage after forty something chapters (?), Naruto was almost immediately overwhelmed and forced to rely on Kurama to turn the tides of the battle once again. Without his bijuu, Naruto would have no jutsu to use and his movements would be severely constrained by the hole made in his chest. He would have easily been killed by Sasuke and the manga would end there if it didn't continue with the focus shifting to Sakura and Kakashi. 
 
6. Kakashi - Warrants credit for holding his own and outwitting Kakashi to acquire the bell. There was assistance from Sakura but it was mostly Naruto's  strategy that allowed them to succeed. 
 
7. Orochimaru - This isn't even what I would believe to be an accomplishment. He allowed Kurama's influence to overtake him in this fight. It was Kurama versus Orochimaru, not Naruto vs Orochimaru.
 
8. Defeated Kakuzu - Needed Kakashi and Yamato to rescue him on at least one occasion. Naruto himself did ultimately beat Kakuzu although we musn't forget that he was already weakened by two of his hearts being destroyed and like Kabuto he seemed to be afflicted with a dosage of PIS during the final exchange. 
 
9. Defeated Pain - Pain was handicapped at the beginning and Naruto required Kurama to escape. 
 
Every accomplishment after this except for a few oddities like the 3rd Raikage happened when Naruto had already tamed Kurama.
 
Do you remember his assurances to "rescue" Sasuke from himself? When he was subverted to the darkest possible point on the morality scale, it wasn't Naruto or his brotherly love for Sasuke that rescued him, but the clarification to his questions about the massacre and the origins of Konoha that made Sasuke have this moral epiphany. Yes, there is still progress to be made in having Sasuke consciously choose to forswear his destructive mindset and allow compassion and understanding to be his guiding principals in life, but it just seems like Naruto is handling the finishing touches to this psychological change, not that he was the single driving force that could bring Sasuke back from his own insanity as Sakura implied. 
 

Lets wait and see if sakura will prove hashiramas statement true or false.

 
With the folks of this board preferring that Tsunade unveil this Slug Sage Mode, that's looking more and more unlikely, if their expectations are accurate. How, when, and against who do they expect Sakura to outstrip Tsunade if she indeed has SSM? This is probably the final opportunity that she will have to showcase what she is capable of against worthwhile opponents. Sasuke's tagalongs wouldn't make for the best sport to exploit if Kishi is intending to have Sakura push beyond her Kage level teacher. 
 
Are we only going to receive a suggestive comment that Sakura has assumed Tsunade's role as the figurehead of the medical practicing world in the epilogue as an indicator? Words cannot describe how ridiculous that would be if she couldn't prove herself in a fight like her teammates did. 
 

Hashirama might have not seen tsunade, thats why he said she might be stronger,

 
Tsunade during her infancy when she had probably not received any formal training by a shinobi instructors and had only her natural strength to use. You can see why people are questioning Hashirama's statement here. 
 

but i think he's a talented enough ninja to know an amazing techinque from one thats not.

 
Your argument here amounts to Hashirama knowing about unseen techniques and a seal that differ greatly from the knowledge that he would possess just because he's that great. Like his misunderstanding of who the 5th Hokage was, there isn't anything that points to Hashirama having knowledge of Byakugou jutsu, Yin Seal, chakra enhanced strength, or Katsuyu. His instantaneous healing when using Sage Mode and the markings on his forehead are similar, but there isn't an established connection between them. The circular marking is just for decoration whereas Sakura and Tsunade's seals contain their accumulated chakra. 
 

And since he complimented sakuras strength, then that must mean something big.

 
Yes, his uninformed, enthusiastic compliment about the only character to have used such strength on the battlefield thus far before his eyes which he compared to his final living memory of Tsunade as a child. 
 

Again, if you still dont agree agree to disagree.

 
That I am and with an expression of those contentious sentiments being provided right now. 
 

About sakuras status as heroine. Shes the heroine no doubt

 
The heroine with three arcs worth of inactivity under her belt and only a few direct contributions made to the story. 
 

but Just because kishi said sakura slipped his mind doesnt mean she slipped his mind throughout the whole manga, it was just in the 2011 interview.

 
The fact that he forgot about her at all is very telling. Like I stated in a previous responce, what does that indicate for Sakura? Her significance to the overbearing conflicts in the manga is average at best. Sakura's screen time is centred around either the Team 7 or Sannin parallel subplots. Her character has nothing else that's extraordinary or unique to itself. Kishi placing her in the same regulatory outfit as the general masses and the obscurity of her presence is very fitting of what Sakura's role is when she isn't thinking about her teammates or her teacher. 
 

As you can see now she hasnt slipped his mind.

 
That would be incorrect. He only just offered recompense for his neglect recently. For the majority of chapters 490-627 she has been almost a non-factor in the grand scheme of things. Just because he attempted to make up for Sakura's lack of screen time in a few short chapters doesn't negate everything that came before the present situation. 
 

And i wouldnt take that comment too seriously cuz i doubt kishi would make a mistake as in "slipped his mind" so if sakura had a big role in the manga at the time that she "slipped his mind" then kishi would probably be in a pickle right now.

 
I am taking it seriously because it shows me how much concern he has for her character to allow her to become part of the nameless hordes of fodder for so long. Isn't a hero supposed to be a distinguished figure whose accomplishments, personality, ideology, or influence has brought about significant changes to the general plotline? Anything about Sakura that's intended to represent courageousness can be seen in all of the characters who would be suicidal enough to challenge the Jubi or Madara. All Sakura has to her name is the assistance of Sunagakure's senior medical senior in defeating an Akatsuki member, becoming Tsunade's pupil, and the chance assignment of herself to Team 7.
 
Yes, Kishi seems to be unskillful at providing an equally worthwhile role to female heroes in his manga, and Sakura's role is supplementary most of the time instead of direct. 
 

Kishi might have neglected sakura in some situations,

 
He's neglected her for most of  P1 and at least half of P2. Don't try to soft-pedal the fact that she has been irrelevant throughout numerous arcs in the manga. 
 

but that doesnt tarnish her role as heroine

 
Yes, it does, for the reasons I already provided above. 
 
Isn't a hero supposed to be a distinguished figure whose accomplishments, personality, ideology, or influence has brought about significant changes to the general plotline? Anything about Sakura that's intended to represent courageousness is seen in all of the characters who would be suicidal enough to challenge the Jubi or Madara. All Sakura has to her name is the assistance of Sunagakure's senior medical practitioner in defeating an Akatsuki member, becoming Tsunade's pupil, and the chance assignment of herself to Team 7. Beyond those qualities, she is about as relevant as Ino or Tenten. 

Edited by Atheck, 13 July 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[Atheck]

or mean her roles so far have been dog kitten,

 
For the overarching plot line, it definitely has. Everything about her is mostly geared towards her emotions or the rehashed parallel narrative tool that Kishi likes to pull out every few chapters. Like I said in the previous post, she seems to have been created to act as a representational hero of emotions rather than fulfilling the same archetype that Naruto and Sasuke act as.
 

you say that sakura hasnt contributed to the story but i beg to differ,

 
Then elaborate on how Sakura is this heavily impactful character who isn't just a love interest or the occasional third-wheel to a parallel trinity. She was practically useless for the majority of P1 and in P2 she was almost nonexistent in the Hidan and Kakuzu, Itachi Pursuit, Invasion of Pain, and the Shinobi World War arcs. There isn't much else to her besides acting as a medic if she isn't involved with Team 7 or the Sannin. Kishi has been depicting her in this light for the majority of the manga and any fictitious exaggerations made by the overzealous fandom won't take away from this fact. 
 

sakura according to the events of the manga, has contributed alot to the manga which is why shes the heroine.

 
Give specific examples besides temporarily protecting her team from the Sound nin, helping to beat Sasori, healing Kankuro, the past few chapters, or the romance subplot.  
 
You understand that other female characters also have such depictions in at least one chapter, correct? Sakura's virtue is that she's part of the team that happens to consist of the main protagonists. She receives more panel time than any other female character. However, panel time doesn't equate to contribution. Like what is occurring at this very moment in the manga, she's staring in the background, "hoping" that her teammates will liberate themselves and her from whatever situation they happen to become part of. 
 

Sakura is the most popular female character in naruto according to her popularity,

 
Popularity doesn't equate to much when you have Iruka, a side-character who has been irrelevant for nearly the entire manga, consistently moving ahead of Sakura in just about every major poll that has been created. 
 

so that must mean that the japanese fanbase thinks she's a great heroine,

 
Do you speak for the totality of the Japanese fanbase? Are you their front man who expresses the universal opinions which they apparently share about Sakura being such a wonderful heroine? Most likely you're not. There are varying reasons for Sakura's popularity. It could be that people find her personality or appearance attractive. She is the most frequently portrayed female character in the manga and she's a part of Team 7. Affiliation with popular figures can oftentimes have an effect that makes people look at you in a perceivably favourable manner. 
 

but ofcoarse, in every fanbase there are some who.differ in opinion.

 
There is a frictional conversation going on at the moment. It's an expression of opinion though. Just please don't try to emphasise this preconception about Sakura as the primary reasoning for her popularity when we no understanding of why people chose to poll her above the other female characters (most of the time). 
 

Again, if you dont agree, agree to disagree.

 
That I am and with an expression of those contentious sentiments being provided right now. 
 

About Sakuras next move, kishi has so many options to do with sakura, i know its gonna be badass, (heres hoping) but shes definitely not gonna be sidelined.

 
She was side-lined for three arcs in P1 (Land of Waves, Search for Tsunade, Rescue Sasuke) and 3 and half in P2 (Kakuzu and Hidan, Itachi Pursuit, Invasion of Pain, and much of the Shinobi World War); mind you, I'm being generous with condensing her role in the most recent arc to just half when she was technically only visibly present for less than like twenty or thirty chapters during this war. That equals out for a total of 6 and half arcs in a manga spanning over 11 major arcs. And currently she has done nothing but passively observe the fight against Tobi and the Jubi for 4 chapters. So no, I don't expect her to take any centre role like she did in #632. Kishi has a knack for omitting characters once they have had a chapter or two dedicated to them. 
 

Im not used to debating so if i made any mistakes in my previous posts (which i corrected) i apologize.

 
Whatever mistakes you make I really am not concerned about.
 

Sakura has perfectly mastered fuinjutsu the byakugo seal,

Katsuyu and Shizune praised Sakura for materialising the seal, not that she had refined it to the point where she is a master. When Sakura releases its contents and is given auto-regenerative abilities on the same level as Tsunade's then we can argue that it is indeed mastery. Of course, you're free to speculate idly whether she can definitely accomplish it or not. Just don't don't preemptively assign jutsu to her list without a proper demonstration that she can indeed carry out those feats
 

and when the uzumaki clan was revealed, it was revealed that sealing as originated from the uzumakis,

 
Nowhere in the manga is it argued that fuinjutsu originated from the Uzumaki. Only that they specialised in creating and using seals. You seem to be exaggerating or misrepresenting quotes that characters make again.
 

so theres my proof that sakura has mastered fuinjutsu.

 
It's one seal in a universe where there could be thousands, if not millions of different techniques. I would hardly refer to Sakura as a mastered practitioner when she hasn't even displayed everything that her teacher could do with their seal. This would be like saying Naruto mastered Futon ninjutsu because he developed the Rasenshuriken. He only has one elemental ninjutsu to his name. It's doubtful if he even understands the principals of wind (elemental or spatial recomposition is not what I mean) in general since Kakashi focused mostly on implementing elemental chakra into the Rasengan.
 

Also, it wasnt said in the manga that tsunade was the one who made up that seal, mito uzumaki was shown to be using it,

 
I never stated that it was the irrefutable origins of the seal, only that she may have been the one to create that particular variation of the diamond shaped seal if her grandmother didn't pass down her own. How do you know that the two seals were the same? If there is anything more to these discrepant names then Sakura's White Strength Seal would contain differing effects compared to the Byakugou jutsu which Tsunade used.
 

so no, tsunade didnt create that seal.

Just keep in mind that these techniques were originally Tsunade's. She was probably the one who created Byakugou jutsu and the other abilities that she knows if Mito didn't instruct her in their usage.
 
A quote from my previous retort. I already acknowledged that it may have originated from Mito. Whether the two seals are one in the same is unknown, but what's undeniable is that Tsunade was the first person in the manga to actually use these abilities or don the seal. Chronologically, Mito came before her, but she was already dead by the time P1 began so we are unable to learn what she could do except for the bits and pieces of information given through comments or flashbacks. 

And sakura doesnt need to use any chakra to keep young,

 
The proverbial crutch which is the only empirical condition mentioned that allows her to "surpass" Tsunade in brute strength at the moment. 
 

so thinking logically, it means that she has more chakra focused on her chakra, speed, strength and god knows what else she uses it to enhance.

 
Strength was the only stat confirmed to be enhanced by not needing to allocate to the seal. Anything else is speculation made by the fandom. And how do you "focus more chakra on chakra"? I'm going to assume that you misworded that part. 
 

Tsunade uses some of her chakra to keep her young, which logically means that she wont have as much chakra focused on her strength.

 
Yes, this is true. It acts as a hindrance to her being able to use her own "full power". Should the transformation jutsu ever be dispelled in favour of qualitatively improving the force of her attack, she could very well match or surpass Sakura's strength...or it could remain inferior for some reason. 
 

Mito Uzumaki's seal and sakuras seal have one thing in common; they dont need it to keep their selves young.

 
We don't know anything about Mito's life or the specifics behind her fuinjutsu. Only that she could sense the emotions of other people and that she was the first jinchuuriki for Kurama.
 

And honestly, I never mentioned that sakura is gonna surpass her master just because of tsunades genes, thats a really poor argument since kishi himself never pointed out in the manga that since tsunade is half uzu half senju she's biologically stronger than sakura,

 
We only need to refer to the Databook for clarification that Tsunade's stamina is much greater. Sakura is listed as having a 2.5 and Tsunade is a 4. Arguments suggesting that Sakura's reserves still have time to grow are subjective but considering her genetic variables when compared to Tsunade's, it's probable that she will never overcome her teacher's stamina levels. Personally, it would be unrealistic if she did since Sakura is apparently intended to fulfill the "normal girl without any unique ability or clan" archetype that Kishi made. 
 
Genetics aren't the only condition to look at when estimating how powerful or intelligent someone will become. Perseverance, attitude, talent, and perhaps some good fortune are also factors to consider. Still, you can't deny that nearly all of the most powerful shinobi in existence were either somehow distantly related to the Sage or they genetically modified themselves to attain similar qualities. Hell, Sakura's abilities all came from a Senju/Uzumaki hybrid. It's one of those little ironies that Sakura, a girl touted as being a success without the need for any innate abilities or biological advantages, wields the abilities of two very powerful clans.
 

so i wouldnt go into stuff kishi hasnt even touched in the manga which is irrelevant.

 
I would argue the same for whatever ability, if she has any, that Sakura is able to unleash when releasing her seal. Actually, that could be said of just about anything in this manga that isn't in the spotlight or the topic of conversation.

Edited by Atheck, 13 July 2013 - 05:32 AM.

[Atheck]

Mastering fuinjutsu isnt by the amount of seals you can perform.

 
Not every seal has the same activation process or applications for a situation. They're different in a myriad of ways both in how you implement them, the design, ect. 
 
As previously claimed, Naruto isn't a master of Futon just because he happens to wield an incredibly dangerous jutsu. 
 

And no, the seal that sakura, tsunade and mito mastered is fuinjutsu,

We don't know if Tsunade or Mito "mastered" the ability to use fuinjutsu. Sakura definitely hasn't mastered hers. It requires three years before materialising and she has yet to unleash its contents. She will need to find a way to overcome that fault with a more hasty accumulation process if some of us are to consider her an equal to Tsunade who is capable of gathering enormous reserves of chakra in a very short amount of time by just eating large amounts of food.
 

its a seal and seals originated from the uzumaki.

Nowhere in the manga is it argued that fuinjutsu originated from the Uzumaki. Only that they specialised in creating and using seals.

To my knowledge, there are only two panels in the manga that specifically refer to the Uzumaki Clan's knack for sealing techniques. I'll present those panels now.



No reference to the origins of fuinjutsu being the Uzumaki. They were apparently devout practitioners of the craft, but that's it. If you want to confirm it for yourself then the chapter is #500.

And what exactly do you mean by "real" fuinjutsu? there is no "real" fuinjutsu, you either master it with no mistakes, or you dont master it at all.

Master, refining, practice, dabble... Quality and Quantity...

All are terms directly connected to a practice. Each with their specific meaning and conclusion to draw upon. If Tsunade qualitatively mastered the Yin Seal at the expense of quantity, then she is an expert with that specific seal. But if someone like Minato who acquired and practiced many seals at once, should his own focus into fuinjutsu be looked upon as mastery? No, because "mastering fuinjutsu" is too ambiguous of a concept to state with any accuracy that any character has done. The only exception to this would probably be if someone were to learn and master all existing fuinjutsu in the world.

Both Minato, Tsunade, and Mito haven't "mastered" fuinjutsu. Minato understands how to use a variety of unnamed Uzumaki seals, but it was never stated if his usage of them was perfectly refined. Tsunade has mastered the Yin Seal and the jutsu it provides, but that is the only seal that she has used so far. The specifics of Mito's seal are a mystery so we can't argue if she's "mastered" it or not.
 

Bottom line, sakura has mastered the Byakugo no in which is classified as S rank which is fuinhutsu.

It requires three years before materialising and she has yet to unleash its contents. She will need to find a way to overcome that fault with a more hasty accumulation process if some of us are to consider her an equal to Tsunade who is capable of gathering large reserves of chakra in a very short amount of time by just eating large amounts of food.

Well technically her seal hasn't received an official ranking yet, if you're of the opinion that it is a separate from Tsunade's Yin Seal. More than likely, it will be designated as S-Rank, but for what reason? The proficient chakra concentration that is necessary to use it? Its repercussions when released that could feasibly allow the user to regenerate body parts? Releasing a seal is classified as a technique though.

And we're yet to see what she has in store. Wow i had no idea this is the opinion of sakura by some people

It could be Slug Sage Mode, Byakugou jutsu, Sozo Saisei, or some other unnamed technique, or nothing at all. Maybe she won't have the opportunity to release it. Who can predict what the future will entail?
 

Hmmm....I guess people never heard of the term "child prodigy"

I have actually. Here is Wikipedia's definition of it.

Child Prodigy - "someone who, at an early age, develops one or more skills at a level far beyond the norm for their age."
 

before which is very much a possible thing to occur. Sometimes there are kids that have accomplished thing that most don't do until they hit their 50s or later.

Sakura was insinuated to be a "late bloomer" or someone who's progression rate with a skill or ability is slower than average. Throughout P1 and P2 this notion was upheld with Sakura taking up until now to materialise her seal and join her teammates in battle. Alternatively, her acquirement and understanding of Tsunade's medical jutsu was suggested to be impressive when she was likened to Shizune; someone whose progression rate was apparently outstanding enough to warrant applause from someone of Tsuande's calibre.

But which title is best applicable to Sakura? Child prodigy or late bloomer? Or could it be some unusual combination of these two opposite concepts that define her character? Someone who is quick to learn new abilities but requires long periods of time before implementing them. Perhaps that is what Kishi's emphasis on Sakura is.
 

The idea that Sakura could be just as good if not better than Tsunade at this point is a definite possibility, but just like the people who say "There is no proof she is as powerful," well there is no proof that she isn't.

Except for the lack of auto-regeneration, a technique that disrupts the electrical signals from the brain, usage of enhanced strength through other parts of her body besides her hands (in the manga), more versatile restorative feats (healing psychological trauma or petrified arms), quicker attainment of chakra for her seal (by eating large amounts of food), physical endurance, or combat experience, yes, that would be correct.

These are actual, verifiable abilities that Tsuande has which Sakura lacks. Could Sakura perform those feats as well? It's possible, but unlike Tsunade's actions which have already been canonized, Sakura's is purely speculation.

Versatility isn't the only aspect to consider, but thus far Sakura's conditional strength is the only confirmed advantage that she has over Tsunade. At best, the areas of expertise these two characters focus their talents in are too ambiguous at the moment to determine who is better, except for what I already mentioned above.
 

How many times has Kishi proved us wrong with the fact that, despite lack of evidence, things still come to pass. How many of you believed she couldn't summon slugs? Some were proven wrong on that one.

It was never specified during which interval of time that Sakura learned how to summon slugs although it definitely wasn't before the end of P1. When Sakura conjured up Katsuyu, that was solid evidence depicting her ability to perform summoning jutsu. The claim had substance to itself then. But prior to that moment no one was about to perch Sakura on a tower as the equal of Tsunade just because she "might" reveal summoning jutsu.
 

So in my opinion, until proven otherwise I am gonna say Sakura is as powerful as Tsunade at the moment.

That's debatable but you're entitled to your opinion.
 

Edit: If you notice any misplaced words or spelling errors then I apologize. 

Edited by Atheck, 13 July 2013 - 05:26 AM.

[sushi.]

Atheck, I don't mean to be rude, but can you please let it go? Your essays are taking over the thread. Or take it in another thread, because this is a chapter thread and there was nothing about Sakura's abilities in it.

 

This is just my opinion, because I don't think you're breaking any rules or anything. I just think you're taking it too seriously and way too far..

 

That counts for others too. I think we've gone off-topic.

Edited by sushi., 12 July 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[StriderC]

Here's my take on it all. Sakura doesn't have to be as strong as Naruto or Sasuke and I do believe she'll eventually surpass Tsunade. She's gaining the necessary bitsy and now she'll be able to do a lot more in battles and outside of them thanks to the seal though we're unaware of how much chakra is houses. Its enough to heal numerous ninja and summon. She's top tier chakra wise I'd guess and her chakra control plays a nice part in that.

 

Anyway, shes still fresh. As moonstar pointed out, shes only had 3 years of training and it matters not of she's CURRENTLY a copy of Tsunade. I'm sure after she's learned all that she can from her, shell branch out. After all, look at the progress she has made in only 3 years.top tier medic nin with other feats. She's an amazing ally and that's what counts. I hope to see her learn sage mode over creation rebirth. I'm not for her losing years on her life. She's no senju/uzumaki. Sage mode would be best and it'd be awesome combined with her seal I'm sure. 

[Canadian_DJ]

Look Atheck, the reason i put all those "agree to disagree" is so if you still dont agree, we can just stop, since clearly no one is gonna change their mind. I believe what your saying, just doesnt fit, your whole post, including sakuras status as heroine and sakura considered a good heroine. I could reply back to you why and why sakura isnt inferior to her comrades, about the seal etc and counter your arguments, but we're just gonna keep going in circles. So yeah, lets just drop it, and to each their own. Oh and, im not japan's head man, but the same way we know that there are people who bash on sakura in the west and are ignorant just by telling on the internet, I've been on many japanese forums and haven't seen anything or anyone say sakura is a terrible heroine. So yeah, with all due respect, im done.

@James and strider

well put.

Edited by Canadian_DJ, 13 July 2013 - 07:53 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

Well, Atheck, it is your opinion as well. Kishi can make Sakura stronger than anyone on the field if he wanted. Just look at Sasuke who gains powers through writer will and not logic. This is especially true in a fictional world where the writer can pretty much do whatever they want.

 

It was never specified during which interval of time that Sakura learned how to summon slugs although it definitely wasn't before the end of P1. When Sakura conjured up Katsuyu, that was solid evidence depicting her ability to perform summoning jutsu. The claim had substance to itself then. But prior to that moment no one was about to perch Sakura on a tower as the equal of Tsunade just because she "might" reveal summoning jutsu.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is just denial right here. There are so many instances where surprise effects come into play that never had build up to them. Would you say Naruto learning Sage mode and being better than Jiraiya at it was foreshadowed? Here is where you're probably say that "Yes, because he was Jiraiya's student." Well, that same logic I can apply to Sakura and Tsunade.

There have been many substance claims in the manga where several people have said "Sakura is going to be more powerful than Tsunade." Kakashi and Jiraiya to name a few if I remember correctly.

Point is, your opinion is just that. Sure you can pull up manga pages, but unless you bring up a manga page that says "No, Sakura is still weaker" then I will say that she is as least on par if not better than Tsunade.
 

I feel you come off as saying "Because I haven't seen her do it, means she can't do it." Well, same with the slug summoning. We haven't seen her do it till jsut now and many have laid claim that she could. I guess those people were right to have that speculation as there was a good chance she could. Same with this. There is a good chance she is as powerful as Tsunade at the moment. More powerful? I am not sure, but I am sticking with "just as powerful."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 July 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Canadian_DJ]

@james

I've pointed many reasons out why sakura is on tsunades level and how she's mastered fuinjutsu aka her seal, and how she's in naruto and sasukes league, but looks like this is just atheck's opinion, even though sakura was never said in the manga to be weaker than sasuke and naruto and all that other stuff he claims and in fact she was said by hashirama to might be better than tsunade.

So yeah, i dropped the argument james, i advise you to as well, if you dont want a head ache

Edited by Canadian_DJ, 13 July 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[T XD]

It's simple, really. Sakura standing still in the same spot in this battle all the time while having a seal showing on her forehead that she can pull out any technique, ability, jutsu that she wants and can do... That won't happen cause it can't happen. Kishi will have her to make her at least make a move.

 

When Sakura showed on the battlefield when the alliance arrived, many started to panic cause Sakura isn't doing anything till came the time that she started to act then shows us what she's capable to do. Not everything will happen in one chapter...

 

Have some faith in Sakura.

Edited by T XD, 13 July 2013 - 12:51 PM.