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#2561 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:02 AM

I don't think it's shallow, just like some of us ship NS because it's mainxmain.
Bleach will end before onepiece, onepiece has long way to go.

 

I don't only ship NS because they're main characters but for the development they have.  I guess I just like Ichigo and Rukia's friendship better, also because it's refreshing to see a main hero and heroine just being friends with nothing romantic going on.  But people are free to ship what they want.

That's what I thought, One Piece seems more popular than Bleach and would have a longer story.



#2562 rocci

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:05 AM

If Naruto didn't had a "love arrow" pointing to Sakura at the beginning but still had the same kind of development (kinda) he had with her in canon, I would call it canon either way

I don't, because it will change their dynamic greatly. All NS moment will goes full platonic since there are no room for romance interpretation.
And it open the path for nh & ss.

#2563 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:11 AM

 

A lot of people only support IchiRuki because it's main guy x main girl which is a shallow reason but oh well, people will ship what they want regardless of what's in the manga.

I don't read One Piece so I don't know if Bleach will end before or after it.  I'm hoping before. xD

One Piece will last like 7-10 more years. :P


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#2564 Nar123

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:16 AM

I don't, because it will change their dynamic greatly. All NS moment will goes full platonic since there are no room for romance interpretation.
And it open the path for nh & ss.


I specifically said "if their dynamic didn't changed out of Naruto not openly declaring himself towards Sakura and asking her out during part 1"
This basically means most of their main moments would be there inclunding some that cant be platonic by any means

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#2565 rocci

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:20 AM

 
I don't only ship NS because they're main characters but for the development they have.  I guess I just like Ichigo and Rukia's friendship better, also because it's refreshing to see a main hero and heroine just being friends with nothing romantic going on.  But people are free to ship what they want.
That's what I thought, One Piece seems more popular than Bleach and would have a longer story.

Me too,
Well, the same happen with NS too. Some people want NS want only friend because it threaten their ship or they just don't like NS as romantic pairing.

Luffy and nami are hero and heroine. They are friend, nothing romantic Eventhought nami nami has bigger chance to become canon with luffy then Hancock.

It has more story to cover.

#2566 rocci

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:22 AM

I specifically said "if their dynamic didn't changed out of Naruto not openly declaring himself towards Sakura and asking her out during part 1"
This basically means most of their main moments would be there inclunding some that cant be platonic by any means

Do you mean naruto has feeling for sakura?

#2567 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:25 AM

Me too,
Well, the same happen with NS too. Some people want NS want only friend because it threaten their ship or they just don't like NS as romantic pairing.

Luffy and nami are hero and heroine. They are friend, nothing romantic Eventhought nami nami has bigger chance to become canon with luffy then Hancock.

It has more story to cover.

 

Well Luffy doesn't have anyone liking him except Hancock and I think she's kinda old... XD  So I think Nami's a better match for him.  I don't really watch One Piece but they seem kinda obvious.



#2568 rocci

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:29 AM

 
Well Luffy doesn't have anyone liking him except Hancock and I think she's kinda old... XD  So I think Nami's a better match for him.  I don't really watch One Piece but they seem kinda obvious.

I love tall older big boob lady XD. + 1 if she is an amazon.

I agree, it obvious.
I think there would be open ending for onepiece.
I think in the end luffy and his crew will sail beyond raftel to the sunset for new adventure.

#2569 Nar123

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:37 AM

Do you mean naruto has feeling for sakura?


He wouldn't outright say it out loud and it wouldn't have any "love arrow" but due to his actions like the gaara fight, hospital scene and the POAL it would be quite obvious till he admitted it in chapter 458

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#2570 rocci

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:43 AM

He wouldn't outright say it out loud and it wouldn't have any "love arrow" but due to his actions like the gaara fight, hospital scene and the POAL it would be quite obvious till he admitted it in chapter 458

What I mean with no love arrow from naruto is naruto devoid any romantic feeling to sakura. Naruto just see sakura as her female teammate.

And it will change the moment you said. Like poal, hospital scene, no date, ect.

Edited by rocci, 17 May 2015 - 04:44 AM.


#2571 Nar123

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:47 AM

What I mean with no love arrow from naruto is naruto devoid any romantic feeling to sakura. Naruto just see sakura as her female teammate.

And it will change the moment you said. Like poal, hospital scene, no date, ect.

But ehh
"love arrow" is basically when characters acknowledged their feelings isn't it?
So basically a Naruto with no love arrow would be a Naruto who didn't acnowledge his feelings yet but throthrough his actions, it becomes pretty obvious

Edited by Nar123, 17 May 2015 - 04:55 AM.

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#2572 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:52 AM

But ehh
"love arrow" is basically when characters acknowledged their feelings isn't it?
So basically a Naruto with no love arrow would be a Naruto who didn't acnowledged his feelings yet but throthrough his actions, it becomes pretty obvious

 

When there's no love arrow it's ambiguous.  The problem would be that Hinata would still have her monster crush on Naruto, making NH more legit.  Naruto's crush on Sakura cancelled out Hinata's crush since his feelings are more important as the main character.



#2573 Nar123

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 04:55 AM

 
When there's no love arrow it's ambiguous.  The problem would be that Hinata would still have her monster crush on Naruto, making NH more legit.  Naruto's crush on Sakura cancelled out Hinata's crush since his feelings are more important as the main character.


Yeah there would be this but NS dev. wouldnt change and it would still be strong
Naruto would then eventually acknowledge his feelings in 458

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#2574 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 05:01 AM

Yeah there would be this but NS dev. wouldnt change and it would still be strong
Naruto would then eventually acknowledge his feelings in 458

 

Well yeah, if the main character's feelings suddenly changed and he realized he loved his female best friend then that couple would be more canon than him and the girl with the one-sided crush.



#2575 AHK

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 05:14 AM

So a teenage guy blushing over a girl's sexy outfit is not proof that he finds her attractive?
 


 
He's embarrassed that she's showing skin, if he didn't see her sexually at all he wouldn't have had such an intense reaction.  Also Yoruichi was naked when she made Ichigo blush, of course he's going to get embarrassed over seeing a naked woman and Rangiku was intentionally trying to seduce him while lifting her skirt.  Orihime was simply wearing a revealing outfit.
Orihime getting jealous of Ichigo and Rukia's bond is not proof that they have romantic feelings for eachother.  By that logic are you saying that Nel and Ichigo have romantic feelings for eachother since Orihime recently got jealous of Nel over Ichigo last chapter?  Rangiku also told Orihime that "she was a fool" for being jealous of Rukia, that Ichigo needs them both.  Orihime also hasn't gotten jealous of Rukia in over 200+ chapters.  When something is not mentioned for a long time it usually means that things have changed.
Ichigo is more protective of Orihime than he is of Rukia, he's gotten angry at Shinji for flirting with Orihime and gets easily angered when his enemies threaten her.  He constantly asks Orihime if she's okay during battles and tells her to stay back during fights.  Aizen, Ulquiorra, and Grimmjow frequently used her as a way to goad Ichigo because they knew how protective he was over her.
Yes the Hollow is what brought Ichigo back to life but it doesn't change what caused him to want to come back to life; to protect Orihime.  It doesn't prove that he has romantic feelings for her but it does prove that their bond is strong and not any less important than IR's.
Again, Ichigo and Rukia having a strong bond doesn't prove that it's romantic nor does it diminish Ichigo and Orihime's relationship.
Yes Ichigo is protective of all his friends but the difference is that Orihime's in love with him.  He has romantic potential with her unlike Rukia who has no romantic feelings for him. 
When a main character is teased about a love interest it's usually evidence that he'll end up with her.  Chad is one of Ichigo and Orihime's closest friends and he seems to support a romantic relationship between them. 
Yeah lots of people ship IchiRuki in fandom but when it comes to debates I think IchiHime has more canon evidence.

Sexual attraction doesn't equate to romantic love, and also, Ichigo has been shown to be embarassed by such things, as he is conservative. You can blush out of embarrassment as well. It doesn't have to mean that he is attracted to her beyond sexually. Furthermore, you said that he blushed when Rangiku tried to seduce him, keyword being seduce, because Orihime's entire purpose behind wearing that outfit, as it was later revealed, was to try to seduce Ichigo. She wasn't "simply wearing a revealing outfit".

She was jealous of the connection they had, and because she saw how Ichigo responds to Rukia, noting that she doesn't have that same kind of bond. She wanted what they have, and she knew that they had a special connection with each other. It wasn't the same as the Nel example. On an unrelated note, I like Orihime, but I thought that was a bit shallow. Why get jealous over that scene when you know Nel is like a sister to Ichigo, and that Ichigo doesn't like her romantically? Anyway, moving on.

He isn't more protective of her than Rukia. Context matters. For example, Shinji. He was wary of Shinji because he and Shinji had just fought the night before, and Shinji showed him his hollow powers. Shinji was a threat to Ichigo. He tells her to get back during fights because, don't kill me for it, but she's relatively weak. Fighting isn't her specialty.

The bond between Ichigo and Rukia is much stronger. Keep in mind that I never said that Ichigo and Orihime's wasn't, but that Ichigo and Rukia's is stronger than Ichigo and Orihime's. That is a fact, as I've said. The only person in the manga that has consistently had a positive emotional impact on Ichigo is Rukia. She is the one that picks him up when he is down, she is the one he responds to. It's highly likely that chad could have been about to snuff it via Ulquiorra and he would have risen to protect chad too, because that's Ichigo's motif.

So because Orihime is romantically attracted to him, he has to love her? Rukia has been shown to have possible romantic attraction to Ichigo, more than Ichigo has had for orihime.

So because Chad "seems to approve of a relationship" between the two, it has to happen? Ichigo doesn't have a say? Honestly, it doesn't even really come off as teasing him as much as it does forcing her on him. If he likes Orihime, fine. Let him make his own choice.

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#2576 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 06:18 AM

Sexual attraction doesn't equate to romantic love, and also, Ichigo has been shown to be embarassed by such things, as he is conservative. You can blush out of embarrassment as well. It doesn't have to mean that he is attracted to her beyond sexually. Furthermore, you said that he blushed when Rangiku tried to seduce him, keyword being seduce, because Orihime's entire purpose behind wearing that outfit, as it was later revealed, was to try to seduce Ichigo. She wasn't "simply wearing a revealing outfit".

She was jealous of the connection they had, and because she saw how Ichigo responds to Rukia, noting that she doesn't have that same kind of bond. She wanted what they have, and she knew that they had a special connection with each other. It wasn't the same as the Nel example. On an unrelated note, I like Orihime, but I thought that was a bit shallow. Why get jealous over that scene when you know Nel is like a sister to Ichigo, and that Ichigo doesn't like her romantically? Anyway, moving on.

He isn't more protective of her than Rukia. Context matters. For example, Shinji. He was wary of Shinji because he and Shinji had just fought the night before, and Shinji showed him his hollow powers. Shinji was a threat to Ichigo. He tells her to get back during fights because, don't kill me for it, but she's relatively weak. Fighting isn't her specialty.

The bond between Ichigo and Rukia is much stronger. Keep in mind that I never said that Ichigo and Orihime's wasn't, but that Ichigo and Rukia's is stronger than Ichigo and Orihime's. That is a fact, as I've said. The only person in the manga that has consistently had a positive emotional impact on Ichigo is Rukia. She is the one that picks him up when he is down, she is the one he responds to. It's highly likely that chad could have been about to snuff it via Ulquiorra and he would have risen to protect chad too, because that's Ichigo's motif.

So because Orihime is romantically attracted to him, he has to love her? Rukia has been shown to have possible romantic attraction to Ichigo, more than Ichigo has had for orihime.

So because Chad "seems to approve of a relationship" between the two, it has to happen? Ichigo doesn't have a say? Honestly, it doesn't even really come off as teasing him as much as it does forcing her on him. If he likes Orihime, fine. Let him make his own choice.

 

How can there be a "choice" when Ichigo isn't in love with either Rukia or Orihime?  I agree, let the guy do what he wants instead of trying to say there's some sort of love triangle when there is not.  I think Orihime's a better match for Ichigo because she's actually in love with him unlike Rukia.  IchiRuki "romance" is ambiguous.  It's not confirmed unlike Orihime's love for Ichigo. 

As I said before strong bond =/= romance.  Just because a guy and a girl share a strong friendship doesn't mean they're going to hook up.  Orihime's case is different because she has romantic feelings for Ichigo. 

This is why I don't like IR, it has to diminish Ichigo's bond with his other friends in order to make an argument.  Yes Ichigo and Rukia have a strong bond but that doesn't make Ichigo and Orihime's friendship any less close or mean that Orihime isn't a good match for him.  It's not about who has the "strongest bond", it's about who's going to end up with eachother romantically.  Rukia is an old dead girl with no romantic connection to Ichigo while Orihime is a living teenage girl who's in love with Ichigo, goes to his school, and lives in the same town as him.  Orihime is the more logical choice.

Rukia also has a strong bond with Renji, why do you ignore this and only make a case for IchiRuki?  It's hypocritical to dismiss any romantic evidence that IchiHime and RenRuki may get yet take it for granted that Ichigo and Rukia are already in love with eachother when they have zero evidence of it.  You try to dismiss any hints that shows Ichigo may be attracted to Orihime yet automatically assume that he's already in love with Rukia?  IR has to prove itself just as much as IH.

Also why would Kubo focus so much on Orihime's love for Ichigo if Rukia was his supposed love interest?  He's set her feelings in stone since the pilot chapter where Rukia herself teased Ichigo about liking Orihime.  If Ichigo had a crush on Rukia it would be different, but he doesn't.  Orihime and Rukia are both good friends of Ichigo, but Orihime is the better romantic choice because she's the one who's in love with him.

But I know I'm not going to change your mind about this no matter how much evidence I give you so I don't really see the point of debating this with you anymore.  You'll continue to support IchiRuki while I'll continue to support IchiHime so wanna just drop this?



#2577 mone_

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 07:45 AM

I think Bleach will not end with open ending; IchiRuki and IshiHime will at least be hinted at. While IchiRuki is without a tiniest doubt the strongest bond in the entire manga (and more than friends, Kubo said), their feelings are not romantic yet / they didn't realise it yet, the majority of their interactions show us they care for each other in a special way. Meanwhile, Ichigo deems Orihime his nakama alongside Chad, Ishida, Renji etc. His feelings towards her are not special - hers are, but that's all. Story-wise it would be rational if in the end she realised that the price that she always imagined to be Ichigo has always been Ishida, who cares for her more than for others and it's been shown. I don't mean to be rude of course, but I don't see how IchiHime has any canon proof even if I squint.



#2578 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 07:51 AM

I think Bleach will not end with open ending; IchiRuki and IshiHime will at least be hinted at. While IchiRuki is without a tiniest doubt the strongest bond in the entire manga (and more than friends, Kubo said), their feelings are not romantic yet / they didn't realise it yet, the majority of their interactions show us they care for each other in a special way. Meanwhile, Ichigo deems Orihime his nakama alongside Chad, Ishida, Renji etc. His feelings towards her are not special - hers are, but that's all. Story-wise it would be rational if in the end she realised that the price that she always imagined to be Ichigo has always been Ishida, who cares for her more than for others and it's been shown. I don't mean to be rude of course, but I don't see how IchiHime has any canon proof even if I squint.

 

Orihime doesn't even like Ishida that way. :/   IchiHime has plenty of romantic evidence, I think you'd have to be bllnd and extremely biased not to see it.  Ichigo cares about Orihime, I hate how IR shippers try to diminish this. >.> 



#2579 mone_

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 07:55 AM

 

Orihime doesn't even like Ishida that way. :/   IchiHime has plenty of romantic evidence, I think you'd have to be bllnd and extremely biased not to see it.  Ichigo cares about Orihime, I hate how IR shippers try to diminish this. >.> 

 

I'm NOT diminishing it! I said that Ichigo cares for Orihime the same as he cares for his other nakama - while he shares a special bond with Rukia.



#2580 Aizen-Sama

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 07:58 AM

 

I'm NOT diminishing it! I said that Ichigo cares for Orihime the same as he cares for his other nakama - while he shares a special bond with Rukia.

 

I agree but that special bond doesn't mean it's romantic.  I think Ishida x Orihime is cute but I don't actually want it for canon.  What other pairings do you like besides IR and IshiHime?


Edited by Aizen-Sama, 17 May 2015 - 08:17 AM.





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