4036 replies to this topic

[Gojira]

Who wants to bet that there will be an interview where Kishi says that he didn't expect a backlash from the fans about this chapter because he was trying to portray Sakura as a "heroine" again

 

Its just kind of hilarious to see Kishi make the EXACT same mistake he made during LOI....

Edited by Pepsi, 28 September 2014 - 01:16 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

From the glimpse that we were given of their dynamics in the Kazekage Rescue arc, they seem to be decently functional group that's able to work well and coordinate together without much squabbling. Guy might be overexerting them a tad bit (it could be looked at as a tactic to project his exuberant 'youthful' vigour onto these young and impressionable minds), but that's just his natural personality shining through his leadership skills. 
 
At least Guy is willing to properly train all of his students and not just a select few that he happens to identify more easily with like Kakashi. However, what causes his almost impeccable record to become tarnished is the incident with Lee's surgery where he promised to commit suicide if his favourite student died on the operating table. That made me realise, for the first time, how fanatical his devotion to Lee is. He was so blinded by his self-inflicted nindo to help Lee in becoming a great ninja that it made him lose perspective on how his actions would have negatively affected the people around him. Neji and Tenten would be left without a leader to guide them, and the village would have lost one of its most capable Jonin; all because the object of his nindo snuffed it. 
 
Kakashi might have his faults, but he never allowed his affections for the student he cared about to dictate whether he lived or died. He's able to look past the grief and loss towards the bigger picture. To rise from the despair of one's own failures and persevere is a better mark of selflessness imo.

That's a very good point I think I might have overlooked. Yes, Gai's irrational and passionate behavior could be problematic as a team leader. However I do like to point out that he is better than Kakashi in the aspect that he will stop at nothing to make all his students develop into better shinobis. That is one thing Kakashi is lacking especially with how he never bothered to train Sakura or Naruto in part one.

So in the end, these two have their positives and negatives.

Right, Kishimoto's developing Sasuke storyline at the expense of Sakura. Like Nate said, he's trashed her development over part two and reduced her to the crying 12yo girl she was back in three-quarters of the way through part 1.
 
I know a few people said they expected this, but I have to say, I didn't.
 
When I said I thought SS would rear its ugly head again, I thought it would probably come about as a result of Sasuke's actions, not Sakura's. Like some ambiguous discussion after Sasuke showed he still had a heart and suddenly protected her from harm. 
 
I never thought Sakura would issue a full blown confession like in the village, and I never thought Sasuke would attempt to harm her in front of Naruto and Kakashi. (Good thing he wasn't aiming to kill her, because they didn't react at all. Not to save her or stop Sasuke.)
 
The bad thing about this little genjutsu interlude, is that knowing Kishimoto, if he decides later on to radically alter Sasuke's behavior at the drop of a hat, and Sakura supports him in an OOC way, Kishi can retcon the whole thing by showing a flashback memory of Sasuke in the genjutsu explaining to her why he's doing what he's doing. The genjutsu could be used as a plot device later on, not just a way to torture her in the moment like we are supposed to believe is happening. Kishimoto would totally do that too. He loves his flashbacks.

I agree so much with this. I think there was a significant meaning in why Sasuke used a genjutsu instead of an actual attack. I first thought it would be used as a plot device to show later on that he couldn't really bring himself to kill her and he had a heart for his old team even before his official redemption. But then after reading your scenario, it seems to be more plausible than mine.

The way Sasuke replayed the part one moment (when he had the heart to say "thank you"), Hagoromo talking about love with Sakura in the panel, Sasuke talking about how he doesn't understand why Sakura still loves him, and most of all the fact that he used the word "annoying" instead of "hate" makes me think that all is not what it seems. After all, it was unnecessary for him to go out of his way to replay the confession and "annoying" isn't a word you use to the enemy.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 28 September 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Gojira]

imo I think he just did it so Kishi could have Sasuke do something brutal to Sakura without her having to become too injured to head to the battlefield afterwords and ofcourse to try and give the audience something shocking even though we already seen it before (using clones or illusions as a trope to trick us is something Kishi has been doing since chapter 1)

 

I don't think there will be anymore relevance to this at best we might get him saying "Thank you" to her again for more parallels but that's about it. It makes perfect sense to call her annoying, she was loud in the way and was acting like a 12 year old girl so kitten her.

[Otaru]

I agree so much with this. I think there was a significant meaning in why Sasuke used a genjutsu instead of an actual attack. I first thought it would be used as a plot device to show later on that he couldn't really bring himself to kill her and he had a heart for his old team even before his official redemption. But then after reading your scenario, it seems to be more plausible than mine.

The way Sasuke replayed the part one moment (when he had the heart to say "thank you"), Hagoromo talking about love with Sakura in the panel, Sasuke talking about how he doesn't understand why Sakura still loves him, and most of all the fact that he used the word "annoying" instead of "hate" makes me think that all is not what it seems. After all, it was unnecessary for him to go out of his way to replay the confession and "annoying" isn't a word you use to the enemy.

 

Yeah me too. I know it can seem like a crack, but the fact that he cast a genjutsu on her instead of really hurt her physically is a hint. I know he hurt her too within the genjutsu, but IDK, maybe it will be used later.
The fact Sasuke said again "annoying" to her felt nostalgic in a hearbreaking way. Maybe Kishimoto also wanted to parallel that time when Kakashi killed Rin, even if it's not the same situation at all. Kishimoto likes parallels so much.

I also agree a lot with what Nameanash said earlier. Kishimoto is coming full circle, because he's revisiting the very firsts key chapters.

I'm sure there will be one with the bench scene.

[Gojira]

 

Yeah me too. I know it can seem like a crack, but the fact that he cast a genjutsu on her instead of really hurt her physically is a hint. I know he hurt her too within the genjutsu, but IDK, maybe it will be used later.
The fact Sasuke said again "annoying" to her felt nostalgic in a hearbreaking way. Maybe Kishimoto also wanted to parallel that time when Kakashi killed Rin, even if it's not the same situation at all. Kishimoto likes parallels so much.

I also agree a lot with what Nameanash said earlier. Kishimoto is coming full circle, because he's revisiting the very firsts key chapters.

I'm sure there will be one with the bench scene.

I can all but confirm that there will be a bench scene in the future.

 

But like I said to someone else in a pm. "I really hope we're not supposed to buy that Naruto will be her gold medal because of the forehead comment he made (that would sink her credibility even lower) that would mean any person with a  forehead fetish could have come along and swept Sakura off her feet from the beginning."

[rocci]

@pepsi
So shikaku could marry kushina if he is the one who compliment her hair instead minato?

[Gojira]

@pepsi
So shikaku could marry kushina if he is the one who compliment her hair instead minato?

Probably, yeah.

[ns.Believe.It]

At least Guy is willing to properly train all of his students and not just a select few that he happens to identify more easily with like Kakashi. However, what causes his almost impeccable record to become tarnished is the incident with Lee's surgery where he promised to commit suicide if his favourite student died on the operating table. That made me realise, for the first time, how fanatical his devotion to Lee is. He was so blinded by his self-inflicted nindo to help Lee in becoming a great ninja that it made him lose perspective on how his actions would have negatively affected the people around him. Neji and Tenten would be left without a leader to guide them, and the village would have lost one of its most capable Jonin; all because the object of his nindo snuffed it. 

I'm mot sure that's how its supposed to be taken. For probably the first time in his life, Lee had lost all confidence. He was unsure on whether or not he should risk his life for an operation which only had a 50% chance of success( Tsunade mentioned Lee could die if it was unsuccessful) Lee was scared and had seemingly lost the will of fire that normally burned brighter in him than most ninjas of Konoha. 

 

Gai was broken when he saw his student's state. It greatly pained him to see his student suffering this way. Lee asked his Sensei to tell him whether or not he should undergo the operation. Initially Gai asks Lee to take a risk and get operated. 

 

Then Lee asks him- " Sensei, what If I die..?"

 

Can you imagine how hard it must have been for Gai at that moment? He would never be able to forgive himself if he forced Lee to get operated and it turned out to be unsuccessful.

 

Lee had lost the very thing that made him a great ninja, confidence. 

 

This is the reason why Gai says he would die alongside Lee if the worst happened. He was trying to make Lee feel confident. Lee always looked up to Gai , almost like his Father. Hearing Gai say that he was prepared to sacrifice his life for Lee gave Lee the confidence and spurred him on to take the risk and not fear death.

 

Gai's resolute words of support were very important to Lee at that moment.

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 28 September 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[only Naruto]

I can all but confirm that there will be a bench scene in the future.

 

But like I said to someone else in a pm. "I really hope we're not supposed to buy that Naruto will be her gold medal because of the forehead comment he made (that would sink her credibility even lower) that would mean any person with a  forehead fetish could have come along and swept Sakura off her feet from the beginning."

hmm  . imo   i dont think it would have the same effect as when the guy she likes say it . maybe she will be happy and say thanks ..  and thats it .

 

[六道仙人]

otaru e ramen... i don't understand you very well... are you saying that at the end Sasuke will return Sakura's feelings romantically? :/

[Princess Iris]

Who wants to bet that there will be an interview where Kishi says that he didn't expect a backlash from the fans about this chapter because he was trying to portray Sakura as a "heroine" again
 
Its just kind of hilarious to see Kishi make the EXACT same mistake he made during LOI....

i think so

[ramenanmitsu]

otaru e ramen... i don't understand you very well... are you saying that at the end Sasuke will return Sakura's feelings romantically? :/

Nope, that's not really what I'm talking about.

[luffyq1]

It can be argued that the genjutsu death is actually worse than the actual attempt. To Sakura, it felt like she just died since the genjutsu manipulates all five senses of the human body. It was a simulation and to her it felt 100% real. He gave her the sensation of death.

 

So when a SS fan says "at least he didn't actually attempt to harm her". Think again. 

[Hiyuusha]

Quick question since I'm not as savvy as the rest of you. What does LOI mean?

[luffyq1]

Quick question since I'm not as savvy as the rest of you. What does LOI mean?

Lots of income.

[Liu bie]

otaru e ramen... i don't understand you very well... are you saying that at the end Sasuke will return Sakura's feelings romantically? :/

I think they are saying  that Sasuke is not evil, he has a heart. But why with Naruto doesn't have same mercy?

Edited by Liu bie, 28 September 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[tricksie]

 

 

I agree so much with this. I think there was a significant meaning in why Sasuke used a genjutsu instead of an actual attack. I first thought it would be used as a plot device to show later on that he couldn't really bring himself to kill her and he had a heart for his old team even before his official redemption. But then after reading your scenario, it seems to be more plausible than mine.

The way Sasuke replayed the part one moment (when he had the heart to say "thank you"), Hagoromo talking about love with Sakura in the panel, Sasuke talking about how he doesn't understand why Sakura still loves him, and most of all the fact that he used the word "annoying" instead of "hate" makes me think that all is not what it seems. After all, it was unnecessary for him to go out of his way to replay the confession and "annoying" isn't a word you use to the enemy.

 

@Ramenanmitsu - I hadn't thought of the choice of words on Sasuke's part — 'you're still annoying' — but yeah, it seems to be a glaring statement that he hasn't moved much either. It's almost like a taunt, when he could certainly threaten her with more cold-blooded statements. The same thing as him chosing a genjutsu when he could certainly harm her if he wanted. 

 

I think it's all part of Kishimoto's master plan of giving Sasuke a way out. For every situation Kishimoto gives Sasuke an out, an excuse, a justification, a get-out-of-jail-for-free pass for what he's done.

 

It's a shame that looking 'underneath the underneath' in this manga has become less about shinobi stealth and more about Sasuke and his plot devices.

[ns.Believe.It]

Quick question since I'm not as savvy as the rest of you. What does LOI mean?

Land of Iron. The Kage Arc....

[TsukiChan ♥]

You know what? I could see why NH fans say Hinata deserves Naruto

 

She knows how Naruto feels about her...yet confesses her love for Sasuke right in front of him...my gosh

I'm honestly tired of her love over Sasuke, when will she get that he doesn't give a damn? ugh

[Atheck]

I'm mot sure that's how its supposed to be taken. For probably the first time in his life, Lee had lost all confidence. He was unsure on whether or not he should risk his life for an operation which only had a 50% chance of success( Tsunade mentioned Lee could die if it was unsuccessful) Lee was scared and had seemingly lost the will of fire that normally burned brighter in him than most ninjas of Konoha. 

 

Gai was broken when he saw his student's state. It greatly pained him to see his student suffering this way. Lee asked his Sensei to tell him whether or not he should undergo the operation. Initially Gai asks Lee to take a risk and get operated. 

 

Then Lee asks him- " Sensei, what If I die..?"

 

Can you imagine how hard it must have been for Gai at that moment? He would never be able to forgive himself if he forced Lee to get operated and it turned out to be unsuccessful.

 

Lee had lost the very thing that made him a great ninja, confidence. 

 

This is the reason why Gai says he would die alongside Lee if the worst happened. He was trying to make Lee feel confident. Lee always looked up to Gai , almost like his Father. Hearing Gai say that he was prepared to sacrifice his life for Lee gave Lee the confidence and spurred him on to take the risk and not fear death.

 

Gai's resolute words of support were very important to Lee at that moment.

 

Guy is considerate of Lee's feelings, there's no question about that. But he's not the sort of man to speak lightly of a topic as grim and impactful as the possibility of Lee dying in an operation that may or may not enable him to continue pursuing his dreams. Guy understood that everything hinged on the succeed of the operation. The promise made to Lee might have been intended to bolster his wavering spirits, but it came as a second thought next to the blind faith that was being conveyed in assuring Lee that he would not be the only one to have lost their purpose in life if he could never continue his career as a shinobi. The assurance that he would take his own life as an act of self-reproach for his "failure" to uphold his nindo was sincere. Again, you can't trivialise an issue as sensitive as whether two people live or die. 

 

Guy's reasons for dying is one part Lee, and another part his personal feeling of self-worth. He's pull all of his eggs into Lee's basket. To him, Lee's success means the difference between accomplishing anything of importance in his life (in his mind) and deprecating himself for his lack of success. That's a significant flaw to his character imo. He's so centred on Lee for personal happiness and meaning to his life that his individual worth apart from his student has become clouded along the way. A lot of his actions, even his suicidal charge against Madara, was motivated, in part, by protecting Lee so that he could continue to grow as a shinobi. While it does prove how fearlessly and unwaveringly loyal he is to his student, it also portrays him in a limited and simplistic light.