4036 replies to this topic

[ramenanmitsu]

Are you kidding? Even Kakashi went through his own fair share of annoying issues... And on top of that, I don't think he was the best team leader to Team 7. He could've done better to be honest.
I think the only one I respect the most from Team 7 is Naruto. At least he moves on from his issues and takes action towards the things that happen around him. Something about his personality seems more refreshing from all the Team 7 drama. He's realistic, even when he goes through a lot. And he doesn't make the mistakes that his other teammates make. He might feel like he's messing up somehow, but I think that's obviously not true..

As a team leader you're right he's not the best. Gai is probably a better team leader/ teacher fthan Kakashi. And yes, he could've done better. I agree. I'm not saying Kakashi is a good character, but compared to the damaged characters of Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke, he's better in comparison.

Kakashi is by far the most responsible and heroic character in team seven who knows about taking consequences and putting an end. When he found out that Sasuke turned evil, he decided to kill his own beloved student. It's a painful task for him but he has great responsibility and the mind to fulfill his duty. That is more than I can say for Sakura who couldn't go through with it because her feelings got in the way and then decide to leave the task to Naruto. If she's a ninja she should learn to take the matters in her own hands instead of relying on others.

Then after Kakashi found out that his student turned evil, NOW his best friend turned out to be the mastermind behind the war, and the murderer of his sensei. What did Kakashi do? He put his kitten back together, gave no excuses and tried to execute Obito. This is responsibility. And this is justice. This is a lot more than I can say for Naruto, who readily calls a mass murderer like Obito "cool" just because they share the same dream and tries to save them, who wants to bring Sasuke back to the village for his own selfish desires with complete disregard about the villagers feelings towards an Akatsuki criminal or facing the consequences of what his actions might bring. He never dirties his hands for the greater good, he has the privilege of doing what his heart is telling him to do, not what the world is expecting him to do.

And unlike Sasuke, Kakashi has his goals and objectives straight. He's got his only father committing suicide, his best friend killed, then his teammate he sworned to protect got killed by his own hands, his sensei killed. He's feeling alone with the feeling of failure of breaking the promise and being unable to protect his friends. Then when he finally gets a new team to take care of, they all suddenly become a terrible mess with one leaving the village and trying to kill the other two. On top of all that, his best friend was alive hating him after all these years and bringing war partially because of him. Yet he follows his duty of protecting Konoha and never loses himself with that great will power of his. That's a helluva lot more than I can say for Sasuke with how he's constantly going here and there with no strong pillar to hold himself to.

I used to dislike Kakashi. But with the terrible characterizations of the other three, I believe he's a lot better in "comparison".

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 28 September 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@Iwantbuns:

 

Naruto is not a realistic character. In fact, he's the total opposite. He's more forgiving than anyone in the real world ever would be and gets over everything bad that ever happens to him way too quickly. There's also the fact that he's unrelentingly persistent past believability since most people, in real life, do give up at those points.

 

None of Team 7 is realistic honestly. Not even Sakura, no matter how hard Kishi says she is. I can't think of many girls who would cry, confess, and beg a man to come back who has made several murder attempts on you and even projected murdering you in your mind right after.


 

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 28 September 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[六道仙人]

No, the sound effect that was there means pause or stop. He was just stopping (remember, he was walking away) to turn around.
He's lying and being tsundere. He thinks he's undeserving of her love.

Literally, that's what they think.

 

exactly... the sfx was ピタ (pita) which it's usesd for stopping sfx... he stoppied for turning back and use his genjutsu on her.

[archangel]

I just clicked on something. At 1st , I was like there is no way Sasuke die. But now that I think about it, the fact that he has the intention of killing the 5 kage hang in this balance.

 

I tink at 1st they will grant him a pardon since he help in the war (Kabuto and Kaguya). But now, with this 5 kage idea, tailed beast enslavement and plot for world domination and the part in addition of his past crime, I don't realistically see him get that pardon. Naruto could just take the rinnegan and with Kakashi help end the tsukuyomi. I mean if Sasuke resolve is strong, even if he lose the fight, let Naruto and the world go back in the same way. 

 

Unless Sasuke revert (again) and team 7 keep the secret of him going with a mad plan (again).

 

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see him choose his resolve. Too bad Naruto gonna break him to happy doofy Sasuke. I want them both on verge of death at least (after all, Naruto said that the next time they fought they're both gonna die,) PLEASE DON'T FORGET PAST CHAPTER KISHI LIKE YOU DID ON THE LAST TWO. (Meaning Sakura break of the genjutsu too, since we never see her skill on that department yet)

 

If you want the list on how many things he kittened up with his character in 2 chapter..

-Where my resolution of the bench scene(I comeback on this one latter:P) 

-Sakura's feeling changing for Sasuke state by Kakashi, then she pull another confession

-Sakura never trusting Sasuke since he appear, every way he act show that she was right, but now she's surprised that he goes evil.

-Naruto ready to break every bone in Sasuke body to keep his promise to Sakura,but now doesn't seem to care that this guy stab his girl (from his point of view)

- Naruto suck at genjutsu, how could it possibly tell Sasuke put her in genjutsu

-Sasuke got a eternal mangekyou Sharinnegan, why can't he use his freaking eye to cast a genjutsu on Sakura.

- How Naruto is immune to genjutsu now (no bijuu, no 2nd help to break free) We know that Naruto suck at it, and Sasuke could just trap Naruto in tsukuyomi and have his head right now.

- How Sasuke adapt to the rinnegan so quickly. (Pain use all his might to trap the Naruto / 8 of the nine-tails transformation, he had the rinnegan his whole life.) Sasuke had his for like 5 hour and he is able to trap all the beast within second.

- Why everyone still want Sasuke back. The guy tried to kill you like 3 time Naruto 3 time Sakura and 2 time Kakashi. He obsessed with his goal and you see he have no problem using people, the same kind of guy that make Naruto sick. He was even an kitten to the whole team not so long ago. I understand he was Naruto 1st bond, but it as more a bond of rivalery. You see, he challenge Naruto because he was afraid Naruto was stronger, when he realise that was the case, he couldn't take it and went to Orochimaru(easy way to achieve vengeance). He save Naruto once (if you count Haku twice) and Sakura once (if you count the chunin exam). After that, all the save goes to Naruto. They were 12. Going 16/17, after all they've been through with him, I don't see how you can care for the guy realistically unless you're blood related or you directly responsible for him going evil. Plus he was away for like 3 to 4 years, where you barely see him and he doesn't hesitate in murderous attempt on you. How can you still connected with him?  My last point is a little stupid, because in a way, we knew that Naruto vs Sasuke will happen. But I would have prefer Sasuke to not be an Ahole during th whole Kaguya fight and work with the other as a team, to show that there is still something bonding them. The way that last fight goes, you have to be blind to not see a backstab and that is why I guess last chapter hurt so much.

 

-Kakashi contradict himself with the other chapter.

 

Well I drift apart from my original idea, which was how the fight between Naruto an Sasuke goes. I'm still pissed at the 693 mess I guess .

[FireFox]

(btw, http://motherofdrago...ragnar-wins-the )

I'm younger enough 

 

Well, i was doing a LAP. But explaining everything, character for character...Sakura alone has 3 pages...I'm writing about Sasuke now...Well, i won't post it here, but i can post that part about the list of scenarios,...i guess.

I knew he was gonna be the king  .

 

Well when you are done you can post the link in here if you like  but why don't you want that ? Still list of scenarios is also god  people will take whatever they can right now .

 

I still wonder what  was the point of this chapter ? Why does Kishimoto revives SS in order to brutally kill it and then revive it again , why did he trow all the NS development into the sewer ? I can't make up my mind whether this is his idea of love (I had a bad feeling after that horse cover and 685 ) or he just hates SS so much that he needs to sadistically kills it time an a time again its like watch him stabbing a dead corps  even if its at the cost of the manga and his supposedly main paring NS  its like nothing matters as long as he can kill SS one more time  its crazy really its worse then watching a horror movie . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 28 September 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[DarkRadeon]

When is Viz coming out with their version?I want to know whether the transitional panel was a shake or a turn.MP hasnt labelled it and MS has said its a shake which SS is using to say that Sasuke was affected by Sakura's speech

[六道仙人]

When is Viz coming out with their version?I want to know whether the transitional panel was a shake or a turn.MP hasnt labelled it and MS has said its a shake which SS is using to say that Sasuke was affected by Sakura's speech

 

shaking? Well, at least MS is wrong

 

http://thejadednetwo...fx/browse/pita/

[LadyGT]

I'm pretty sure ピタ is a SFX for stopping, I just used it in my doujinshi.

[Princess Iris]

I'm pretty sure ピタ is a SFX for stopping, I just used it in my doujinshi.

ask SS fans

U'll be amazed

[*- ZerΩ -*]

@Iwantbuns:

 

Naruto is not a realistic character. In fact, he's the total opposite. He's more forgiving than anyone in the real world ever would be and gets over everything bad that ever happens to him way too quickly. There's also the fact that he's unrelentingly persistent past believability since most people, in real life, do give up at those points.

 

None of Team 7 is realistic honestly. Not even Sakura, no matter how hard Kishi says she is. I can't think of many girls who would cry, confess, and beg a man to come back who has made several murder attempts on you and even projected murdering you in your mind right after.


 

Naruto is far more forgiving that Jesus himself!

Now everytime i pray ill say:

 

Ohhh Naruto...Forgive me for my sins!

-Voice inside head :Your the coolest,tattebayo!

Edited by *- ZerΩ -*, 28 September 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[rocci]

@ramen
Naruto is a heroic character.
In shonen manga, heroic character doesn't kill human character.
Ofc there are exception. But I think they are rare, and mostly kill someone in flashback.

[Otaru]

Otaru, from now I will consider you as SS fan, like my inner self

 

LOL if you want. I'm not SS fan at all lol
I know my analysis is like a crack.

 

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this on many levels.

If we are really going to look at this analytically, then why not just knock Sakura out entirely instead of a genjutsu of him ripping out her heart? As pointed out, genjutsu is torture. Your analysis makes it sound like he is doing Sakura a favor by doing this and I can't stand by that logic. That's basically saying that no one is evil because eventually all evil deeds can be washed away by the fact that "they care too much." Should we say this about Obito too? "He started a war and killed people because he has a soft spot for humanity." I don't think anyone here would agree with that. How about Madara and the Tsukuyomi? Was what he did all part because he loved humanity too much or he had some deep hidden feelings that he wanted people to stop killing each other and save the world?

This is why people have this crazy notion that Sasuke secretly loves Sakura all because it starts with this. "Well, if he was truly evil, he could have just killed her outright." Well, if he was truly good why not just knock her out like he did before instead of the torture he just inflicted on her? Hell I could even argue that he didn't phycially attack her because he knew Naruto could stop him from doing it. Genjutsu is instantaneous and so it can't be stopped as easily as say a chidori would.

I don't see regret on Sasuke's face. I see a man who is tired of it all and just wanted her to shut up. He wants everyone to shut up and stop trying to tell him what to do. To me, it almost looked like he was laughing saying "What is this a joke? You're still on this kick? You serious?" Sasuke may soon feel regret, but right now he has none. I don't see it and I don't want to promote this idea that he was apparently "always regretful" of his actions like some are proclaiming.

 

I understand what I said can make you disagree no problem.

To me, Sasuke is NOT doing Sakura a favor. Sorry if this is what you felt from my post. It was not my intention. But I felt something subtle Kishimoto may have hidden in there. To me, Sasuke is still in conflict. I think he refuses to accept his "family" love (Kakashi, Sakura, Naruto). I'm sure something like this will be brought up by Kishimoto at some point.

 

"all evil deeds can be washed away by the fact that "they care too much"." /// hey don't you remember ? Kishimoto has done something like that already. With Obito yes. It's the utter truth written in the manga... I understand you don't like it, I don't really like it either. But it's here...

 

I agree with you there is no regret on Sasuke's face... yet. It will come in the future. For now, I agree with you, he's just tired of it, and he wanted her to shut up because what she was saying was touching him in a way, even if he refused it. What I said, is that his face look softened. His expression was full of nostalgia. IDK something like that.

Edited by Otaru, 28 September 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Atheck]

As a team leader you're right he's not the best. Gai is probably a better team leader/ teacher fthan Kakashi. And yes, he could've done better. I agree. I'm not saying Kakashi is a good character, but compared to the damaged characters of Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke, he's better in comparison.

 

From the glimpse that we were given of their dynamics in the Kazekage Rescue arc, they seem to be decently functional group that's able to work well and coordinate together without much squabbling. Guy might be overexerting them a tad bit (it could be looked at as a tactic to project his exuberant 'youthful' vigour onto these young and impressionable minds), but that's just his natural personality shining through his leadership skills. 

 

At least Guy is willing to properly train all of his students and not just a select few that he happens to identify more easily with like Kakashi. However, what causes his almost impeccable record to become tarnished is the incident with Lee's surgery where he promised to commit suicide if his favourite student died on the operating table. That made me realise, for the first time, how fanatical his devotion to Lee is. He was so blinded by his self-inflicted nindo to help Lee in becoming a great ninja that it made him lose perspective on how his actions would have negatively affected the people around him. Neji and Tenten would be left without a leader to guide them, and the village would have lost one of its most capable Jonin; all because the object of his nindo snuffed it. 

 

Kakashi might have his faults, but he never allowed his affections for the student he cared about to dictate whether he lived or died. He's able to look past the grief and loss towards the bigger picture. To rise from the despair of one's own failures and persevere is a better mark of selflessness imo. 

[Otaru]

 

Yeah definitely. The statement Sasuke made about 'why would she even like someone like me' is very introspective, and speaks more of his self-loathing than a hatred of Sakura. Like I said, Kishimoto has already worked out how he's going to make all of this okay so he can redeem Sasuke, so all the love talk in this chapter will show up again later. And I agree, I think what SS-ers are interpreting as his undying love is really just the things that will be twisted around to redeem Sasuke eventually. Not through love but through some team bond. 

 

Yes that's exactly what I think.

 

I just keep reading this panel over and over again and each time I do, it makes it seem that Sasuke was the most logical one in this chapter. Seriously, he's the biggest Anti-SS to have ever exist and his explanation right here, tells it all when it comes to his dislike for Sakura as a love interest. 

 

 

IMO, if you believe Sasuke is just evil, and nothing else, you're falling into Kishimoto's trap.
You have to read underneath the underneath, and it's pretty clear about Sasuke IMO.

 

What I don't understand right now, is what Kishimoto wants to do with Sakura, because he has contradicted himself IMO.

Edited by Otaru, 28 September 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[only Naruto]

 

wow 131 pages   ooh kishi what have u done t us   .calm down guys. am sure  the next  little  NS moment  will turn the negative people to   . .lol . i mean  685 wasnt that far right. . and in the chapters after 685  smile from sakura  to naruto  we were like NS all the way and perfect. canon.

 

 

there were posts i red about the promise . and i actually forgot at what page   (i mean its 131 pages ). so i  just wanted o say my opinion about them.. i know  (who cares ) 

 

naruto told sakura what she wanted to hear in 469 about the promise (he even closed his eyes like when he did the promise to her hiding his feelings) .he felt she was forced to tell him leave the promise .  he knew she was  still caring for sasuke. .and also because he thinks that  to get sasuke back is what will make her most happy.  (i know naruto is the best when it comes to girls feelings ) thats why the promise continued .actually it was never off.

 

 

the other thing is  some posts mentioned that naruto was free from the burden of the promise in 484.  ? i thought he was free because he finally met sasuke  and talked to him . and told him that he is not giving up on him and that he still can be saved from darkness . naruto thought that might  affect sasuke .like what iruka  did with naruto.   (i mean even if naruto dropped the promise in 469 he renew it again  and sakura heard that. in 484 ).   maybe am wrong about this but that is how i saw these panels .

[Codus N]

As a team leader you're right he's not the best. Gai is probably a better team leader/ teacher fthan Kakashi. And yes, he could've done better. I agree. I'm not saying Kakashi is a good character, but compared to the damaged characters of Naruto, Sakura, or Sasuke, he's better in comparison.
Kakashi is by far the most responsible and heroic character in team seven who knows about taking consequences and putting an end. When he found out that Sasuke turned evil, he decided to kill his own beloved student. It's a painful task for him but he has great responsibility and the mind to fulfill his duty. That is more than I can say for Sakura who couldn't go through with it because her feelings got in the way and then decide to leave the task to Naruto. If she's a ninja she should learn to take the matters in her own hands instead of relying on others.
Then after Kakashi found out that his student turned evil, NOW his best friend turned out to be the mastermind behind the war, and the murderer of his sensei. What did Kakashi do? He put his kitten back together, gave no excuses and tried to execute Obito. This is responsibility. And this is justice. This is a lot more than I can say for Naruto, who readily calls a mass murderer like Obito "cool" just because they share the same dream and tries to save them, who wants to bring Sasuke back to the village for his own selfish desires with complete disregard about the villagers feelings towards an Akatsuki criminal or facing the consequences of what his actions might bring. He never dirties his hands for the greater good, he has the privilege of doing what his heart is telling him to do, not what the world is expecting him to do.
And unlike Sasuke, Kakashi has his goals and objectives straight. He's got his only father committing suicide, his best friend killed, then his teammate he sworned to protect got killed by his own hands, his sensei killed. He's feeling alone with the feeling of failure of breaking the promise and being unable to protect his friends. Then when he finally gets a new team to take care of, they all suddenly become a terrible mess with one leaving the village and trying to kill the other two. On top of all that, his best friend was alive hating him after all these years and bringing war partially because of him. Yet he follows his duty of protecting Konoha and never loses himself with that great will power of his. That's a helluva lot more than I can say for Sasuke with how he's constantly going here and there with no strong pillar to hold himself to.
I used to dislike Kakashi. But with the terrible characterizations of the other three, I believe he's a lot better in "comparison".

This. Of course, he did have some help from Naruto getting out of his funk in 608, but most of the things that he did were of his own efforts alone. I honestly think Kakashi is far more deserving of the Hokage title at this point, not just because of his skills and mindset, but also because it would reward Kakashi for all of the kitten he's gone through.

If I had to describe Kakashi's character development, it would be best described as a journey of self-acceptance, as opposed to Naruto's journey of seeking acceptance. Kakashi has had a problem of being unable to accept the fact that he is worth more than he thinks he is, only viewing himself as an absolute failure. This has become something of a psychological hindrance for him. Kakashi's entire philosophy was entirely taken from the former Obito, but in reality, it held him back from creating his own philosophy, his own ideals and his own character. When he finally confronted Obito, he was able to accept the fact that he is his own man, creating his newfound ideals needed to face Obito once and for all and carry out his responsibility not just as a Konoha nin, but also as his friend.

Surprisingly, Obito survives till the end. But once again, Obito leaves a few words that changes Kakashi's outlook. Obito telling him to become Hokage. The real meaning of Obito's request is that Kakashi should accept the fact that he is not the man who can become Hokage. It's that he will become Hokage. Which is why I would be perfectly happy if he is Hokage in the new movie. Because it would complete his development and wrap it all up nicely for him, because it would finally show that he has fully accepted that he is far from an absolute failure. Hell, with how Hagoromo seems to be sticking around for a while, I wouldn't mind one bit if he decides to give Kakashi an asspull power-up because it would be totally deserving. Especially with how he spoke of Kakashi not giving up till the end in the battle against Kaguya.

[六道仙人]

no one is saying that sasuke is evil here... It's just Sasuke cannot have a romantic feelings into his heart for her, that's all..Surely he will be redeemed. abou this there's no doubt.

[Gojira]

I'm pretty sure ピタ is a SFX for stopping, I just used it in my doujinshi.

Yeah there's really nothing indicating that he's shaking in anyway, even if he was it couldn't be used as an excuse anyway.

[tricksie]

 

IMO, if you believe Sasuke is just evil, and nothing else, you're falling into Kishimoto's trap.

You have to read underneath the underneath, and it's pretty clear about Sasuke IMO.

 

What I don't understand right now, is what Kishimoto wants to do with Sakura, because he has contradicted himself IMO.

 

Right, Kishimoto's developing Sasuke storyline at the expense of Sakura. Like Nate said, he's trashed her development over part two and reduced her to the crying 12yo girl she was back in three-quarters of the way through part 1.

 

I know a few people said they expected this, but I have to say, I didn't.

 

When I said I thought SS would rear its ugly head again, I thought it would probably come about as a result of Sasuke's actions, not Sakura's. Like some ambiguous discussion after Sasuke showed he still had a heart and suddenly protected her from harm. 

 

I never thought Sakura would issue a full blown confession like in the village, and I never thought Sasuke would attempt to harm her in front of Naruto and Kakashi. (Good thing he wasn't aiming to kill her, because they didn't react at all. Not to save her or stop Sasuke.)

 

The bad thing about this little genjutsu interlude, is that knowing Kishimoto, if he decides later on to radically alter Sasuke's behavior at the drop of a hat, and Sakura supports him in an OOC way, Kishi can retcon the whole thing by showing a flashback memory of Sasuke in the genjutsu explaining to her why he's doing what he's doing. The genjutsu could be used as a plot device later on, not just a way to torture her in the moment like we are supposed to believe is happening. Kishimoto would totally do that too. He loves his flashbacks.

[Otaru]

 

Right, Kishimoto's developing Sasuke storyline at the expense of Sakura. Like Nate said, he's trashed her development over part two and reduced her to the crying 12yo girl she was back in three-quarters of the way through part 1.

 

I know a few people said they expected this, but I have to say, I didn't.

 

When I said I thought SS would rear its ugly head again, I thought it would probably come about as a result of Sasuke's actions, not Sakura's. Like some ambiguous discussion after Sasuke showed he still had a heart and suddenly protected her from harm. 

 

I never thought Sakura would issue a full blown confession like in the village, and I never thought Sasuke would attempt to harm her in front of Naruto and Kakashi. (Good thing he wasn't aiming to kill her, because they didn't react at all. Not to save her or stop Sasuke.)

 

The bad thing about this little genjutsu interlude, is that knowing Kishimoto, if he decides later on to radically alter Sasuke's behavior at the drop of a hat, and Sakura supports him in an OOC way, Kishi can retcon the whole thing by showing a flashback memory of Sasuke in the genjutsu explaining to her why he's doing what he's doing. The genjutsu could be used as a plot device later on, not just a way to torture her in the moment like we are supposed to believe is happening. Kishimoto would totally do that too. He loves his flashbacks.

 

Yeah it's a possibility.

 

/// I had never thought he would do things at Sakura's expense too...