3406 replies to this topic

[StriderC]

It's already confirmed that Sakura = Kushina and you know that

http://i29.mangaread...uto-1377327.jpg

http://i30.mangaread...uto-1377329.jpg
he looked like a flaky girly boy

http://i10.mangaread...uto-1377331.jpg
i looked down my nose at minato.

http://i2.mangareade...uto-1377333.jpg
and most important he changed me

I think it cant be more obvious.
Minato changed the way she looked at him and most important he changed her views about herself.

Naruto changed sakura's view about him but did not changed her views about herself.


I disagree with you and yes it's something that Naruto must do.

Naruto ISN'T the only one who changed her. Naruto changed her outlook on him, but it wasn't just Naruto who influenced or help make her a better ninja. Sasuke when she talked about how annoying she was. Rock Lee, Sasuke and Naruto in the Forest of Death. Tsunade played a nice part in her fight with Sasori. Sure, a lot of it involves Naruto, but he's not the sole reason for her changes, and of course he can't change the views on her way of thinking. That's something she has to overcome on her own. JUST LIKE HINATA DID. Hinata gained the inspiration for her changes from Naruto but ultimately, it was her who pushed herself to make the change. You're making it seem as though Naruto has to do pretty much everything when it comes to her character. He already influenced her to get stronger, and now you want him to change her way of looking at herself? Seriously? I'd personally rather she tackle that hurdle on her own but that's just a difference of opinion.

This isn't even a right or wrong situation. Its you feel one way while I feel the other. Some will agree, and some won't.

What needs to be realized IMO, is that she can never do too little for Naruto because he appreciates her. It's just like what Yamato said. Realizations can't be made until she does something about it.

Naruto needs to prove his love in a certain way, yes. He needs to prove that he truly loves by listening to her and not push her aside because of Sasuke. That's why he is the final hurdle. Get him out of the way and let's see what happens from there. The mix-up with Sakura's confession has created some problems. I don't think Sakura was lying, but there to the characters themselves that is the different story. You have to see it from their view, not ours. In their shoes, they have to prove it. They have to show it when it is challenged. Only then can it succeed.



I never said anything about Minato saving Kushina as the reason why she fell in love with him. If you read what I posted again I said he proved it to her. That could mean anything.

Read what I said: "I think he has. It just hasn't sunk in yet. Kushina fell in love with Minato as soon as he proved it. Naruto has proved it the same exact way several times and Sakura is still stubborn for one reason or another. Whether she thinks she is burden or because Kishi is stalling. Whatever the case may be."

I never said anything about Minato "saving" Kushina as what you are implying. I just said he has to prove it. And Naruto has proved it, but Sakura is too stubborn thanks to Sasuke...or should I say Kishimoto? Should I mention the bench scene and how maybe this will come into the equation later down the story path? Many NS fans would like to think so. It does seems like an important moment not to pass up.

Be aware that when Minato did it, he only had to do it once.

Also, notice how the "idea vs reality" I stated before plays in this again?



See, you're just splitting hairs here. "Naruto didn't influences her. Naruto AND Sasuke influenced." Naruto still had a part in influencing her to become better. That's why she became a medic and stopped relying on her good looks and popularity. So she changed, just she has more changing to do. She stopped being self-centered and she started to be a more active role. Is that not changing a person? I think it is. I think that is a big change for her. She also, while arguably still has feelings, hasn't been fan-girling Sasuke anymore.

People change in many different ways and Sakura has change in the way she thinks, looks, and even her own nindo.



Is that what you want to believe? Do you know what a "pep-talk" is? I am just asking so we are on the same page here.

Let's look at the definition: http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/pep talk
pep talk - a speech of exhortation attempting to instill enthusiasm and determination in a team or staff

http://www.mangapand...chapter-73.html

http://www.mangapand...chapter-74.html

And we got what Don-Kun posted



These are pep-talks. and a few others I believe, but too lazy to find.

If you mean a conversation about how he feels about her and her confession (He has technically did this, but it wasn't a "pep-talk"), as I said this is going to be something saved for last and you should be aware of this. He thought she was lying. So a "pep-talk" about this situation is not going to work as long as Sasuke is out there.

We also have this undeniable fact that he has tried to give her more pep-talks in the past, but Kakashi stopped Naruto from telling the whole truth. Then the war happened. I am going to say this again, if Kishi were to do this back then then NS would be canon right now, but we all know he won't do this till the end. He won't have Naruto and Sakura sit down and really talk it out because there is too much going on and they still have Sasuke to deal with. Plus the other pairings to deal with.

We also have moments where he could have pep-talked but as some said Naruto still believes Sakura loves Sasuke which is another reason why he has not. I would further the guess and say that Sai's pep-talk is what Naruto's pep-talk would have been. Although I wouldn't tehnically call them pep-talks as they weren't their to bring their spirits up, but more to tell the truth.

As I said, I think I know what Kishi is thinking. I don't agree with the execution, but I think I know what he is trying to do.

I personally wouldn't call the final conversation a pep-talk either because it's them telling the truth, not to bring their spirits up. It's not like they are down and then Naruto wants to brighten her spirits up. They just have to tell the truth.

BTW, I forgot to mention. Naruto DID influence her to change for the better. It wasn't until Sai told her about the POAL that she started to feel like a burden again. You have Naruto to bring her up and Sai brought her back down. Arguably, Sai became the realist.

I pretty much agree with you here.

Edited by StriderC, 04 January 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Naruto ISN'T the only one who changed her. Naruto changed her outlook on him, but it wasn't just Naruto who did that. Sasuke when she talked about how annoying she was. Rock Lee, Sasuke and Naruto in the Forest of Death. Tsunade played a nice part in her fight with Sasori. Sure, a lot of it involves Naruto, but he's not the sole reason for her changes, and of course he can't change the views on her way of thinking. That's something she has to overcome on her own. JUST LIKE HINATA DID. Hinata gained the inspiration for her changes from Naruto but ultimately, it was her who pushed herself to make the change. You're making it seem as though Naruto has to do pretty much everything when it comes to her character. He already influenced her to get stronger, and now you want him to change her way of looking at herself? Seriously? I'd personally rather she tackle that hurdle on her own but that's just a difference of opinion.

This isn't even a right or wrong situation. Its you feel one way while I feel the other. Some will agree, and some won't.

What needs to be realized IMO, is that she can never do too little for Naruto because he appreciates her. It's just like what Yamato said. Realizations can't be made until she does something about it.



I pretty much agree with you here.

About the bolded one look at the context , when sasuke told this she thought about being more kind to Naruto.

This was the start of her changing her view of Naruto not herself.
Was about protecting Naruto and Sasuke her ninja way, it changed her but not the view of how she thinks about herself, does not matter because on the Sai's chapter she viewed himself as a bad person, she viewed himself as weak, a person that only do mistakes and rely too much on Naruto.

Kushina didnt figured out for herself, despite being strong, being a jinchuuriki how much evidence you still want?
Naruto will change her and she will love him.

About Hinata read the chapter when Naruto says that Hinata is strong, Naruto give her confidence she didnt figured out for herself., Naruto give that pep talk to her, but was not something regarded to love, Hinata always was behind Naruto and her concern was about she could not protect him she wasnt strong enough to do it.
It's different with Naruto and Sakura.

I disagree with the way you say "sakura as to figure out for herself" and you know that she wont.
because if she figure out there will be no reason for her to fall in love with Naruto and we both know about this.

She already views Naruto as a strong ninja and an amazing person since part 2.
Unfortunately she does not think this way about herself she has not found her "soulmate".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 04 January 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

And still did not change her what happened was Sakura acknowledge Naruto this is not the type of talk i tried to say look at what Minato said to Kushina and the implications of that look at how Sakura feels about herself and etc.

She only acknowledge Naruto it didnt changed her, this was an acknowledgment about her her views of Naruto.
it was more like thanks naruto.

you're talking about other stuff i'm talking about a serious business about Sakura, she didnt figure out for herself she's unable to do it, she didnt realized it during her fight with chyo and even with chyio saying those stuff didnt change her, she helped to defeat an akatsuki member and obtain info about orochimaru and still she said "i only do small things".

And later she repeats the same speech.
When sai told her that Naruto loves her.

You believe what you want to believe, dude. I can keep giving you evidence all day and posting examples, but it's not going to change your mind or your view.

So we agree to disagree.

As a kid Ino picked on her for her forehead. In Part 1, she saw herself as popular and pretty. Then Sasuke said she was worthless. Naruto gave several pep-talks over the course and she felt better and stronger for it. Time Skip happens and now she doesn't feel useless. She feels like she can help. Then the transformation happened at the bridge and she feels like what she does is so little. Yamato pep-talks in saying that she does a lot more than she thinks she does and she feels better again. Then everything is fine for a while and she helps Naruto through the course realizing that even the little things can matter in a big way. Sai then tells her of Naruto's feelings and she feels like a burden again. The whole incident with Sasuke once again she is back up thanks to what Naruto said.

She is waving line of emotion and conflictions. Up and downs of a wave over the course of this entire manga. Recently, she is up. She says she is going to be with Naruto til the end. That doesn't sound like someone who is insecure to me. Has she changed as a character? Yes, she has, but her feelings are a wobbly mess because she has conflictions in her love and again this will be addressed in the end. Again if this was covered before, we already would have canon pairings. It is by far the most important topic in this manga because it could decide everything.

She is not insecure about herself. She is conflicted with her emotions.

Kushina was insecure because everyone picked on her about her hair and she wasn't popular. While Sakura had this problem in part 1 with her forehead, she doesn't feel this way now.

The confession was her last insecurity. After that, she is not insecure anymore, she is just conflicted. That's how I see it. She can fight fine, she can heal people, she has confidence in her abilities. She has confidence in her looks too. She doesn't hide her forehead and even thinks she is more womanly now. That's how I view it. She is a wave of up and down moments as Naruto is also a wave of up and down moments. How many times has Naruto been insecure about himself and his abilities? At least thrice in Part 2. Unlike in part one where he had all the confidence in the world.

Other than that, I can't show you enough evidence to change your opinion and just have to disagree with you.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 January 2013 - 11:01 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You believe what you want to believe, dude. I can keep giving you evidence all day and posting examples, but it's not going to change your mind or your view.

So we agree to disagree.

As a kid Ino picked on her for her forehead. In Part 1, she saw herself as popular and pretty. Then Sasuke said she was worthless. Naruto gave several pep-talks over the course and she felt better and stronger for it. Time Skip happens and now she doesn't feel useless. She feels like she can help. Then the transformation happened at the bridge and she feels like what she does is so little. Yamato pep-talks in saying that she does a lot more than she thinks she does and she feels better again. Then everything is fine for a while and she helps Naruto through the course realizing that even the little things can matter in a big way. Sai then tells her of Naruto's feelings and she feels like a burden again. The whole incident with Sasuke once again she is back up thanks to what Naruto said.

She is waving line of emotion and conflictions. Up and downs of a wave over the course of this entire manga. Recently, she is up. She says she is going to be with Naruto til the end. That doesn't sound like someone who is insecure to me. Has she changed as a character? Yes, she has, but her feelings are a wobbly mess because she has conflictions in her love and again this will addressed in the end. Again if this was covered before, we already would have canon pairings. It is by far the most important topic in this manga because it could decide everything.

She is not insecure about herself. She is conflicted with her emotions.

Kushina was insecure because everyone picked on her about her hair and she wasn't popular. While Sakura had this problem in part 1 with her forehead, she doesn't feel this way now.

The confession was her last insecurity. After that, she is not insecure anymore, she is just conflicted. That's how I see it. She can fight fine, she can heal people, she has confidence in her abilities. She has confidence in her looks too. She doesn't hide her forehead and even thinks she is more womanly now. That's how I view it. She is a wave of up and down moments as Naruto is also a wave of up and down moments. How many times has Naruto been insecure about himself and his abilities? At least thrice in Part 2. Unlike in part one where he had all the confidence in the world.

Other than that, I can't show you enough evidence to change your opinion and just have to disagree with you.

Your evidences is completely useless thanks to this.
http://i19.mangaread...ruto-536480.jpg
Sakura wanst popular.
Nope

If she has confidence why she did say "i only did mistakes".
Sakura does not feel this way about herself and this is not conflicted about her emotions, Naruto will change her.

After skipping the whole kittenry, you find this.
http://i10.mangaread...uto-1242678.jpg
"All i've ever done is to rely on him and cry, i was supposed to change that...".
She thinks that she only do that, and we all know that she dont.
Yeah she cant change by herself, it's a task for our hero Naruto.

Like i said i cant imagine sasuke saying stuff liek " no sakura you didnt do only mistakes and etc.."
Naruto is the only one who can do this because he loves her, Sakura will fully develop when this mess is resolved like Minato did with Kushina.
After it she will see Naruto as her soulmate this is how i think.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 04 January 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Sakura Blossoms]

Your evidences is completely useless thanks to this.
http://i19.mangaread...ruto-536480.jpg
Sakura wanst popular.
Nope

If she has confidence why she did say "i only did mistakes".
Sakura does not feel this way about herself and this is not conflicted about her emotions, Naruto will change her.

After skipping the whole kittenry, you find this.

What the heck? Seriously, what the heck? Number 1, James already said that he'd have to agree to disagree with you, and you respond by telling him his evidence is useless? Then to make it all much much worse, you use one of the most degrading words in all of the English language 'kittenry' to further shove in his face your opinion that what he said is useless?

That's not going to fly here. Agreed to disagree and move on AND read the forum rules (which you have been instructed to do more times than I'm willing to count) about language and derogatory statements.

[Chucky-kun]

Your evidences is completely useless thanks to this.
http://i19.mangaread...ruto-536480.jpg
Sakura wanst popular.
Nope

If she has confidence why she did say "i only did mistakes".
Sakura does not feel this way about herself and this is not conflicted about her emotions, Naruto will change her.

After skipping the whole kittenry, you find this.
http://i10.mangaread...uto-1242678.jpg
"All i've ever done is to rely on him and cry, i was supposed to change that...".
She thinks that she only do that, and we all know that she dont.
Yeah she cant change by herself, it's a task for our hero Naruto.

Like i said i cant imagine sasuke saying stuff liek " no sakura you didnt do only mistakes and etc.."
Naruto is the only one who can do this because he loves her, Sakura will fully develop when this mess is resolved like Minato did with Kushina.
After it she will see Naruto as her soulmate this is how i think.

Making mistakes doesn't mean having insecurities.

[StriderC]

Making mistakes doesn't mean having insecurities.

EXACTLYYYYY. Sakura have made mistakes, but her character is just fine. She's grown into such a great individual, and her relationship with Naruto has changed into one of the best relationships in the manga. She grew out of being picked on at a young age thanks to Ino, and she's been complimented several times. She's content with her looks I'm sure. She's gained skills from basically having close to nothing in Part 1, and proved that she can definitely be useful in and out of battle. She's learned to be more open as a person and more accepting thanks to Naruto. Her only problem IMO is that she feels she's a burden to Naruto, and what will likely happen is that she's not good enough for him. I'm not saying she feels this way now but it's a possibility after what just happened in these few chapters. I wouldn't mind that.

[sushi.]

There is a difference between introspection and selfconfidence.

Intrapersonal intelligence:
This area has to do with introspective and self-reflective capacities. This refers to having a deep understanding of the self; what your strengths/ weaknesses are, what makes you unique, being able to predict your own reactions/emotions.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

She is waving line of emotion and conflictions. Up and downs of a wave over the course of this entire manga. Recently, she is up. She says she is going to be with Naruto til the end. That doesn't sound like someone who is insecure to me. Has she changed as a character? Yes, she has, but her feelings are a wobbly mess because she has conflictions in her love and again this will be addressed in the end. Again if this was covered before, we already would have canon pairings. It is by far the most important topic in this manga because it could decide everything.

She is not insecure about herself. She is conflicted with her emotions.

Kushina was insecure because everyone picked on her about her hair and she wasn't popular. While Sakura had this problem in part 1 with her forehead, she doesn't feel this way now.

The confession was her last insecurity. After that, she is not insecure anymore, she is just conflicted. That's how I see it. She can fight fine, she can heal people, she has confidence in her abilities. She has confidence in her looks too. She doesn't hide her forehead and even thinks she is more womanly now. That's how I view it. She is a wave of up and down moments as Naruto is also a wave of up and down moments. How many times has Naruto been insecure about himself and his abilities? At least thrice in Part 2. Unlike in part one where he had all the confidence in the world.

Otherwise known as being a teenager. Ha!

Not disagreeing or disregarding your post or anything, but sometimes it feels like we're forgetting that most of the principle cast of Naruto are still teenagers.

Not trying to be stereotypical here, but puberty and teenage-hood are usually characterized by conflict within ourselves. Doubly so when you add romantic feelings to the mix. Celestia knows I went through the same thing, especially at the entirety of my Senior year in High School. They're also at war too! My god, I hope they have Ninja-therapists.

[James S Cassidy]

Otherwise known as being a teenager. Ha!

Not disagreeing or disregarding your post or anything, but sometimes it feels like we're forgetting that most of the principle cast of Naruto are still teenagers.

Not trying to be stereotypical here, but puberty and teenage-hood are usually characterized by conflict within ourselves. Doubly so when you add romantic feelings to the mix. Celestia knows I went through the same thing, especially at the entirety of my Senior year in High School. They're also at war too! My god, I hope they have Ninja-therapists.

Real life standards....yes.

But we have to also remember that while yes, they are teenagers, they don't work on the same principle of real life teenagers. If Sakura and Naruto were real people, they would probably do a few things differently and I doubt in real life they would avoid talking to each about the issues they have come across. Example, I doubt a real life Naruto would ignore the hug and be as oblivious to the occasional come on that he has received.

That's the thing about stories like this. Sometimes the characters behave in ways that in real life would never work or it wouldn't be that dramatized as it is. So it's not that I forget that real life things can happen, but that I don't like to bring in real life logic. That my personal preference.

Also, in real life the minute the guy tries to kill her is the minute she would leave and call the police and since Sakura doesn't seem the kind of girl who is abused I doubt the "too abused to stand up" would apply to her.

It's just easier for me if I play by the rules the universe sets up.

(Sakura especially does not behave like a real life teenage girl I have ever seen at her age. The way most girls behave would be more similar to the way she was in part 1. )

Edited by James S Cassidy, 05 January 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Chatte]

Uhm, guys, since we were talking about this, someone on Tumblr posted this

I hate Kishimoto…i hate Kishimoto…I hate HIM!!
”Despite being the heroine of the series, Kishimoto stated himself during the 2010 interview that Hinata would make a better heroine than Sakura, this is due to the fact that because Sakura not only has a ‘normal’ background in comparison to Hinata but also because he has a hard time making good roles for female characters like Sakura, having stated on several occasions that he has a very hard time viewing her as the heroine of the series.
cit. Narutopedia

Is that true?

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Need a link to that interview first.


If it IS true, explains a lot.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 05 January 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[sushi.]

Uhm, guys, since we were talking about this, someone on Tumblr posted this



Is that true?

^that is old news

But it's weird.. because in interviews, Kishi tends to sometimes favor Hinata over Sakura. Sometimes(hopefully most times), it's the other way around.

[Don-kun]

Your evidences is completely useless thanks to this.
http://i19.mangaread...ruto-536480.jpg
Sakura wanst popular.
Nope

If she has confidence why she did say "i only did mistakes".
Sakura does not feel this way about herself and this is not conflicted about her emotions, Naruto will change her.

After skipping the whole kittenry, you find this.
http://i10.mangaread...uto-1242678.jpg
"All i've ever done is to rely on him and cry, i was supposed to change that...".
She thinks that she only do that, and we all know that she dont.
Yeah she cant change by herself, it's a task for our hero Naruto.

Like i said i cant imagine sasuke saying stuff liek " no sakura you didnt do only mistakes and etc.."
Naruto is the only one who can do this because he loves her, Sakura will fully develop when this mess is resolved like Minato did with Kushina.
After it she will see Naruto as her soulmate this is how i think.

Naruto does not need to chance Sakura in any way or form, Sakura was already influence in the past and decided to change for the better, the only thing that is pending between the two is that they need to acknowledge how important they are to each other when they are finally honest with each other, what Naruto needs to understand that people can chance and also feelings can change, Sakura need to understand that she is not a burden to Naruto.

But he doesn't need to change since he doesn't command her life, Naruto only inspired her Sakura decided to become a better person and ninja on her own.

[Chucky-kun]

Uhm, guys, since we were talking about this, someone on Tumblr posted this



Is that true?

Went to Narutopedia.
Found the quote.
Looked at references.
Didn't see anything besides the databooks and Chapters.
Narutopedia is biased, nuff said

[Don-kun]

Uhm, guys, since we were talking about this, someone on Tumblr posted this



Is that true?

I don't believe it but I also don't deny it, an neutral about it, but it's like Chuky-kun said Narutopedia is very bisaed towards NH and Hinata caracter.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That isn't true. He said that it was his fault for not making her more heroine than people expected it. At one point, people could say it's Hinata, but he's not letting anyone to take Sakura's place, so he's going to make her more heroine from that point forward.

[James S Cassidy]

That isn't true. He said that it was his fault for not making her more heroine than people expected it. At one point, people could say it's Hinata, but he's not letting anyone to take Sakura's place, so he's going to make her more heroine from that point forward.

Sounds good to me.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Sounds good to me.

Indeed.

Btw, I read your LAP. Incredible post. That's a well done post and you made me rethink on a lot of things. I see it differently. It's a really nice take on the whole situation. Of course, I agree that every pairings before final pairing get their last moments. I guess people in here wasn't prepare or hope to never happen. Plus it's Hinata's first time to physically touch him. Sure took a long time, but I digress. Anyway, a well done post. It's just what L would write.

Honorable mention to RomanceGirl (please correct me).

[Tsubaki]

are you talking about that interview?

http://narutoxsakura...rview-334624389