19964 replies to this topic

[Traci]

Lately, I've seen some fans arguing that Kishimoto originally planned to make NaruSaku canon, but changed his mind and switched to NaruHina and SasuSaku.

I don't see much reason for him to do so besides the popularity of SasuSaku and NaruHina, and I don't think Kishimoto would succumb to such pressures. How do you guys feel about this argument?

[Transformers03]

Lately, I've seen some fans arguing that Kishimoto originally planned to make NaruSaku canon, but changed his mind and switched to NaruHina and SasuSaku.

I don't see much reason for him to do so besides the popularity of SasuSaku and NaruHina, and I don't think Kishimoto would succumb to such pressures. How do you guys feel about this argument?

I've never heard him say that, and if that was true when did he start showing signs that Naruto may like Hinata, and vice versa, when did he ever shown signs that Sasuke may like Sakura. Besides, I keep hearing that Narusaku is more popular than Naruhina in Japan, so I doubt he would have change it because of popularity. Even if did care which was more popular, I really doubt he was ever truly pressured to change the story, most likely annoyed by fans to change it or make it happen.

[Traci]

I've never heard him say that, and if that was true when did he start showing signs that Naruto may like Hinata, and vice versa, when did he ever shown signs that Sasuke may like Sakura. Besides, I keep hearing that Narusaku is more popular than Naruhina in Japan, so I doubt he would have change it because of popularity. Even if did care which was more popular, I really doubt he was ever truly pressured to change the story, most likely annoyed by fans to change it or make it happen.

Sorry, I wasn't too clear. They never claimed that he actually said that. It was just their conclusion based on how the manga has been going lately.

I agree with you, I doubt he would change his mind. Yet, isn't SasuSaku more popular than NaruSaku? Although if he cared about popularity KakaIru would be canon, lol. I think this argument is just wishful thinking.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

On the topic of Sasuke, I have to agree with PacuchoDesigns about why Sasuke was doing what he did. I've contantly expressed my annoyance and anger over Sasuke's frame of mind in wanting to destroy Konoha. The RIGHT thing to do is to follow Itachi's desires. But I after doing some thinking, I can't completely blame Sasuke. Sure he was being stupid and irrational but when I think if I went through, I can't honestly say I wouldn't hate Konoha like Sasuke does. Logically, Sasuke knows the people of Konoha does not know the truth about Itachi so they are innocents. But Sasuke was so grief-stricken to the point that he didn't give a damn anymore if they were guilty or not, I just wanted to vent his anger and suffering on something. Sasuke's mind was telling him that Konoha is the reason his Clan was destroyed so naturally he'd hold an irrational grudge against. He's being illogical and selfish in his feelings, but he can't bring himself to like Konoha again just because of Itachi. It's understandable.

My conclusion is that Sasuke will never truly forgive Konoha or even like it, but he's willing to now reflect on what Itachi wanted to point when he's not even sure what he wants anymore. I still highly disaprove of his actions and always will but I see why he thinks like that.

[TheClover]

Sorry, I wasn't too clear. They never claimed that he actually said that. It was just their conclusion based on how the manga has been going lately.

I agree with you, I doubt he would change his mind. Yet, isn't SasuSaku more popular than NaruSaku? Although if he cared about popularity KakaIru would be canon, lol. I think this argument is just wishful thinking.

A lot of people are quick to jump to conclusions. Hinata gets quite a bit of attention in the manga lately...and BOOM. Instant theory of how Kishi's gonna switch from NaruSaku to NaruHina. So, of course, all that NaruSaku development that's been going on means absolutely nothing, right? While Naruto talking to Hinata for a couple of panels is like a gold mine.

SasuSaku is the most popular hetero pairing out here in the west. But in Japan, Transformers is correct--NaruSaku is more popular. And exactly...if he was easily swayed by his fans, crack pairings like that would be canon.

Edited by DemonicxWings, 17 July 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[Jake]

Lately, I've seen some fans arguing that Kishimoto originally planned to make NaruSaku canon, but changed his mind and switched to NaruHina and SasuSaku.

I don't see much reason for him to do so besides the popularity of SasuSaku and NaruHina, and I don't think Kishimoto would succumb to such pressures. How do you guys feel about this argument?

Probably the best argument aginst this is that Kishi said that nothing can change the ending he has had planed since the beginning, and that most likely includes the pairing(s) too.


@DemonicxWings: If I'm not mistaking SasuSaku is more popular in Japan too, but NaruSaku is very close behind it.

[TheClover]

@DemonicxWings: If I'm not mistaking SasuSaku is more popular in Japan too, but NaruSaku is very close behind it.

Really? I always thought it was the other way around...but I've seen other people saying the same thing you are. Overall, though, I believe NaruSasu is the most popular pairing there.

[kidNinja]

Like stated above, if popularity determined the pairings, then Kakashi and Iruka would be shacking up right now.

[PachucoDesigns]

Like stated above, if popularity determined the pairings, then Kakashi and Iruka would be shacking up right now.

Which is exactly why pairing wars are fruitless.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Probably the best argument aginst this is that Kishi said that nothing can change the ending he has had planed since the beginning, and that most likely includes the pairing(s) too.


@DemonicxWings: If I'm not mistaking SasuSaku is more popular in Japan too, but NaruSaku is very close behind it.

This poll is old it was way before the sakura's confession.
i think it was 2 or 3 years ago.
and the ammount of voters was way low, it was only for subscribers.

Edited by dovahkiin, 17 July 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Which is exactly why pairing wars are fruitless.

Pairing wars are pointless because no matter how much arguing and debating we do with opposing sides, it won't change the outcome of the series. Sure I love debating but it won't change anything. Obviously someone is wrong and someone is right in a debate. The satisfaction of course if your right is cool though

[PachucoDesigns]

Pairing wars are pointless because no matter how much arguing and debating we do with opposing sides, it won't change the outcome of the series. Sure I love debating but it won't change anything. Obviously someone is wrong and someone is right in a debate. The satisfaction of course if your right is cool though

And that's really about all it is. The bragging rights of the outcome.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I avoid pairing wars so i cannot comment this.

[TheClover]

On the topic of Sasuke, I have to agree with PacuchoDesigns about why Sasuke was doing what he did. I've contantly expressed my annoyance and anger over Sasuke's frame of mind in wanting to destroy Konoha. The RIGHT thing to do is to follow Itachi's desires. But I after doing some thinking, I can't completely blame Sasuke. Sure he was being stupid and irrational but when I think if I went through, I can't honestly say I wouldn't hate Konoha like Sasuke does. Logically, Sasuke knows the people of Konoha does not know the truth about Itachi so they are innocents. But Sasuke was so grief-stricken to the point that he didn't give a damn anymore if they were guilty or not, I just wanted to vent his anger and suffering on something. Sasuke's mind was telling him that Konoha is the reason his Clan was destroyed so naturally he'd hold an irrational grudge against. He's being illogical and selfish in his feelings, but he can't bring himself to like Konoha again just because of Itachi. It's understandable.

My conclusion is that Sasuke will never truly forgive Konoha or even like it, but he's willing to now reflect on what Itachi wanted to point when he's not even sure what he wants anymore. I still highly disaprove of his actions and always will but I see why he thinks like that.

Hard-core fans of Sasuke argue that he was traumatized by witnessing his brother slaughter his clan, and let's face it, who wouldn't be? I agree that he should've followed Itachi's wishes...honestly, now his reasoning for doing what he does is getting out of hand. I've always been annoyed with him as well...because personally, I thought he reacted to the slaughter quite irrationally and immaturely. I get that that's a horrible thing for an eight-year-old to face--heck, for anyone to face. But in the back of my mind, there's always this thought that what he's doing is really getting ridiculous and has no purpose. Even so, I can't help but feel sorry for him. I'm pretty much going back and forth between this.

Agreed, and these two posts kinda explain what I feel about him:
http://narutoshippin...ost/21490686202
http://narutoshippin...ve-sasuke-and-i <-- Minus the part about loving Sasuke.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Hard-core fans of Sasuke argue that he was traumatized by witnessing his brother slaughter his clan, and let's face it, who wouldn't be? I agree that he should've followed Itachi's wishes...honestly, now his reasoning for doing what he does is getting out of hand. I've always been annoyed with him as well...because personally, I thought he reacted to the slaughter quite irrationally and immaturely. I get that that's a horrible thing for an eight-year-old to face--heck, for anyone to face. But in the back of my mind, there's always this thought that what he's doing is really getting ridiculous and has no purpose. Even so, I can't help but feel sorry for him. I'm pretty much going back and forth between this.

Agreed, and these two posts kinda explain what I feel about him:
http://narutoshippin...ost/21490686202
http://narutoshippin...ve-sasuke-and-i <-- Minus the part about loving Sasuke.

Sasuke never truly grew up since the massacre. He stayed frozen in the past and could never seem to let go of it. Sasuke himself said recently he can't afford to be child anymore. He openly admits his immaturity. I do still sympathize with Sasuke for his hard childhood but at the same time I'm greatly annoyed by his misguided logic. I love Sasuke's character only for these reasons. 1. Sympathy 2. Naruto wanting Sasuke back 3. I miss the good Sasuke and want that Sasuke back. I can't really say I'm a Sasuke hater or a true lover of his character(At least not anymore. After his fight with Itachi, I'm too angry with him to be one of my favorite characters).

My ideal wish is for Sasuke to return to Team 7 and Konoha. And that does somehow really happen, it will only be because Sasuke would following Itachi's wishes like he should. Not because he genuinely wants to. Even if Naruto makes him let go of his hate, I have no doubt some part of him will always resent the village(Unless he lets go but Sasuke's poor at letting go). True. Sasuke's desire for revenge won't give his life a true meaning. I hope he only realizes that soon. So no I can somehow never bring myself to truly hate Sasuke. I think it's my sympathy as well as the memory of Part 1 Sasuke that stops me.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 17 July 2012 - 12:21 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Sasuke never truly grew up since the massacre. He stayed frozen in the past and could never seem to let go of it. Sasuke himself said recently he can't afford to be child anymore. He openly admits his immaturity. I do still sympathize with Sasuke for his hard childhood but at the same time I'm greatly annoyed by his misguided logic. I love Sasuke's character only for these reasons. 1. Sympathy 2. Naruto wanting Sasuke back 3. I miss the good Sasuke and want that Sasuke back. I can't really say I'm a Sasuke hater or a true lover of his character(At least not anymore. After his fight with Itachi, I'm too angry with him to be one of my favorite characters).

My ideal wish is for Sasuke to return to Team 7 and Konoha. And that does somehow really happen, it will only be because Sasuke would following Itachi's wishes like he should. Not because he genuinely wants to. Even if Naruto makes him let go of his hate, I have no doubt some part of him will always resent the village(Unless he lets go but Sasuke's poor at letting go). True. Sasuke's desire for revenge won't give his life a true meaning. I hope he only realizes that soon. So no I can somehow never bring myself to truly hate Sasuke. I think it's my sympathy as well as the memory of Part 1 Sasuke that stops me.

Imagine you are in a building with a lot of people. Suddenly, there is a huge explosion in that building. You're now surrounded by the corpses and severed pieces of the people who were just alive not ten seconds ago. You survived, but the building was a raging inferno, and you had to crawl to safety. You barely make it out, and you find out that you are the only survivor. Tell me, how many years of "growing up" would you need to get over that trauma? Would it be easy to just "let go?" How long would you be "stuck in the past?"

Also, what true meaning would be gained if he stayed in the village as a part of Team 7?

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 17 July 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[TheClover]

Sasuke never truly grew up since the massacre. He stayed frozen in the past and could never seem to let go of it. Sasuke himself said recently he can't afford to be child anymore. He openly admits his immaturity. I do still sympathize with Sasuke for his hard childhood but at the same time I'm greatly annoyed by his misguided logic. I love Sasuke's character only for these reasons. 1. Sympathy 2. Naruto wanting Sasuke back 3. I miss the good Sasuke and want that Sasuke back. I can't really say I'm a Sasuke hater or a true lover of his character(At least not anymore. After his fight with Itachi, I'm too angry with him to be one of my favorite characters).

My ideal wish is for Sasuke to return to Team 7 and Konoha. And that does somehow really happen, it will only be because Sasuke would following Itachi's wishes like he should. Not because he genuinely wants to. Even if Naruto makes him let go of his hate, I have no doubt some part of him will always resent the village(Unless he lets go but Sasuke's poor at letting go). True. Sasuke's desire for revenge won't give his life a true meaning. I hope he only realizes that soon. So no I can somehow never bring myself to truly hate Sasuke. I think it's my sympathy as well as the memory of Part 1 Sasuke that stops me.

I'm kinda proud of him for starting to grow up, but like you said, he still doesn't have the right idea about what to do. Hmmm...I always thought of Part I Sasuke as an arrogant, rude little guy...but he was definitely better than our current Sasuke. He was a good guy, for one. Loyal, strong, smart...learned to protect his comrades, etc. I don't hate him, nor do I love him, either. He's a confused guy who quite possibly won't have a reason to live anymore.

It's hard to forget your reason for living and the consequences of it. Maybe, MAYBE he can forgive. But letting go is a different story.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Nope i dont like his character.
He represents things that i detest.
A kid that always had everything and thinks that his cause is right and understandable.

Its like a playboy that thinks he can argue with another guys that work and have responsabilities.
The difference between naruto and sasuke is because naruto has reponsabilites like he needs to protect his village and friends.
Sasuke has nothing it's just him and his hatred i'm not talking about objetives this has nothing to do with abandoning his frieds or kill them by himself, he has not show any compassion towards sakura or another person.

This character f**cked up the story Naruto.
when i was hoping to see about the other jinchuurikis or naruto could make a chase to save them.
No, we have to see his "TAKA" team for 60 chapters until we could see naruto again, and naruto's pathetic chase on sasuke "bridge", that guy was going to kill sakura and naruto and was goign to use Kirin on them but after it they still wanted to bring him back.
After Taka they went to chase again with team Kurenai.
that was annoying.

Edited by dovahkiin, 17 July 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Branden]

Sasuke is an avenger, I think thats fantastic.

Naruto however, has a pretty standard life of a hero. Have a ridiculous dream, and a never give up lifestyle. Start off as an underdog, then 2 years later become a demigod. Then (in the future of course) he saves the world and get's the girl. Yep, pretty average. But there's really nothing wrong with that, it's the other characters I care about.

I want to see Lee become the greatest taijutsu user who ever lived, I want Neji to be freed of his bird cage, I want Sasuke to kill everyone in Konoha, I want Konohamaru to become Hokage, I want Hinata to become the leader of her clan, I want Naruto to bring peace to the ninja world, and I want Kakashi to take off his freaken mask!


Anyways, back to my point.


How exactly could NaruHina happen?
Place : Streets of Konoha
Naruto is just taking a leisurely stroll when he sees Hinata and walks over to her.
Naruto : Want to be my girlfriend?
Hinata : Sure

THE END

Do these NaruHina fans really think this is going to happen? Really? Why would it? How is that relevant to the story? What would that accomplish? Neither Naruto or Hinata are changing in any way shape or form by doing that.

At with NaruSaku you have some purpose.


Point A : Naruto mirrors Jiraiya.

There are many ways we can compare team 7 to Sarutobi's team. We know how much they mirror each other. That bring me to my point. It's been hinted at that Jiraiya loves Tsunade. However Jiraiya took his feelings to the grave because he didn't want Tsunade to suffer any more if he didn't make it back. Selfless love in a nutshell. Why am I saying this? Because Naruto is going to succeed where his predecessors failed.

Point B : The freaken drama!

Unlike NaruHina, when NaruSaku becomes cannon it won't just be with a casual conversation, it will be an extremely emotional revelation, kind of like Hinata's confession. NaruSaku becoming cannon would be far more interesting and emotional then NaruHina. This is because of how awkward Sakura's confession was, and how Naruto still can't believe she's over Sasuke.

Point C : Development, plain and simple.

By NaruSaku happening it would prove Sakura has finally acknowledged her love for Sasuke was an immature vision of love that was derived from her crush, and that she has finally moved on. Sakura acknowledging this is very much needed if she is ever going to grow up. Naruto had his "growing up" moment when Jiriaya died. Shikimaru had his when Asuma died. Sasuke is currently having his since Itachi "died". Sakura need to recognize what love truly is. Other then that she is actually quite grown up.



Anyways, I have no idea what you guys were discussing, I just hope this shakes things up a bit.

[Traci]

Sasuke is an avenger, I think thats fantastic.

Naruto however, has a pretty standard life of a hero. Have a ridiculous dream, and a never give up lifestyle. Start off as an underdog, then 2 years later become a demigod. Then (in the future of course) he saves the world and get's the girl. Yep, pretty average. But there's really nothing wrong with that, it's the other characters I care about.

I want to see Lee become the greatest taijutsu user who ever lived, I want Neji to be freed of his bird cage, I want Sasuke to kill everyone in Konoha, I want Konohamaru to become Hokage, I want Hinata to become the leader of her clan, I want Naruto to bring peace to the ninja world, and I want Kakashi to take off his freaken mask!


Anyways, back to my point.


How exactly could NaruHina happen?
Place : Streets of Konoha
Naruto is just taking a leisurely stroll when he sees Hinata and walks over to her.
Naruto : Want to be my girlfriend?
Hinata : Sure

THE END

Do these NaruHina fans really think this is going to happen? Really? Why would it? How is that relevant to the story? What would that accomplish? Neither Naruto or Hinata are changing in any way shape or form by doing that.

At with NaruSaku you have some purpose.


Point A : Naruto mirrors Jiraiya.

There are many ways we can compare team 7 to Sarutobi's team. We know how much they mirror each other. That bring me to my point. It's been hinted at that Jiraiya loves Tsunade. However Jiraiya took his feelings to the grave because he didn't want Tsunade to suffer any more if he didn't make it back. Selfless love in a nutshell. Why am I saying this? Because Naruto is going to succeed where his predecessors failed.

Point B : The freaken drama!

Unlike NaruHina, when NaruSaku becomes cannon it won't just be with a casual conversation, it will be an extremely emotional revelation, kind of like Hinata's confession. NaruSaku becoming cannon would be far more interesting and emotional then NaruHina. This is because of how awkward Sakura's confession was, and how Naruto still can't believe she's over Sasuke.

Point C : Development, plain and simple.

By NaruSaku happening it would prove Sakura has finally acknowledged her love for Sasuke was an immature vision of love that was derived from her crush, and that she has finally moved on. Sakura acknowledging this is very much needed if she is ever going to grow up. Naruto had his "growing up" moment when Jiriaya died. Shikimaru had his when Asuma died. Sasuke is currently having his since Itachi "died". Sakura need to recognize what love truly is. Other then that she is actually quite grown up.



Anyways, I have no idea what you guys were discussing, I just hope this shakes things up a bit.

Well, I know one NaruHina fan who thinks that when the war is over, Hinata will be the one to hug and embrace Naruto instead of Sakura. To paraphrase what he said, "Think the hug between Naruto and Sakura at the end of the Pain arc, except Naruto will actually hug Hinata back." I don't mean to disrespect his opinion, but I kind of found this prediction ridiculous... And isn't he basically admitting that the hug between Naruto and Sakura was romantic because he wishes it for Naruto and Hinata?

I believe he also thinks Naruto and Hinata will fight or share another moment together when K14 meets up with Naruto, which I don't think is really unreasonable. Honestly, the only way I see NaruHina happening is in the epilogue they are together or if Naruto asks Hinata for some ramen or something at the end... Unless, of course, Kishi pulls a plot twist or something.

Edited by Traci, 17 July 2012 - 04:57 PM.