31746 replies to this topic

[gamma]

They come from the same ancestor, but they are not that related. That's being extremeeeeeeely technical saying that NH is incestuous... 

 

I've never thought of it that way... and now I can't get it out of my head, LOL.

[Dalton.T.R]

Following that logic, we're ALL related by Adam and Eve, so..... Hi cousins! 

Edited by Dalton.T.R, 22 September 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[Frankie]

Following that logic, we're ALL related by Adam and Eve, so..... Hi cousins! 

Sup, cous!

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Well this is a disturbing thing to think about

 

And the thing is, such things were actually done in ancient times (Europe and Japan primarily) under such belief that family bloodlines should remain "pure" and thus no "outsiders" should be allowed to have children with members of the family for risk of "corrupting", "dirtying", etc. that bloodline, so cousins and even siblings would have arranged marriages (incest was one of the big scandals of the Borgia family, for example). In regards to the Uchiha and Hyuga, we also saw their attitude about "purity" within their respective clans, especially since, by the present time, there is no one outside of the clan who naturally possesses the Sharingan or Byakugan; only those who have had it surgically implanted in them from an actual clan member (and without permission, which is why Kakashi was disliked by the Uchiha Clan; even Sasuke tried to talk down to him, snidely commenting about how he hopes Kakashi is grateful for the Uchiha's power).

 

Following that logic, we're ALL related by Adam and Eve, so..... Hi cousins! 

Hi cousin....ummm....a few billion times removed?

Edited by HalfDemonInuyasha, 22 September 2017 - 04:06 AM.

[Nate River]

They come from the same ancestor, but they are not that related. That's being extremeeeeeeely technical saying that NH is incestuous... 

 

I've never thought of it that way... and now I can't get it out of my head, LOL.

 

A Makoto avatar? All the game's characters are great, but she was my favorite. 

[lupina]

(This post was meant for another thread (NS debate thread) - can somebody move it please??? Copy/Paste dosen't work for some reason)

 

 

1. Yeah, sorry. It felt a bit awkward to have to explain someone who visited the forest numerous times that there are really trees in there. At least I can refer back to this post in the future in case you claim again that you were never shown anything.

 

 

- Sakura is very tender towards naruto, besides being a rough woman from time to time, wich Sai notices. Shikamarus' comment fits the narrative and I see no reason to "remove" this other than you want to reduce the amount of teasing to a minumum. The crucial point in the hug-Scene after Naruto defeated Pain are the faces of the characters in the background, wich were all blushing/looking suprised, implying that this is not just an innocent hug between two close friends.

 

- I don't know why you bring up "romantic developement", since, as far as I can remember, my original point was to show that a possible relationship between Naruto and Sakura, as well as fellings on her side with a yet unknown nature,  were teased constantly through the course of the entire manga, up until the very end. The point is that you have to ask the question, with Narutos' and Sakuras' actual developement in mind, why this scenes do exist in the first place, if they are not meant to lead anywhere or tell us something.

 

It was teased, but never executed or mentioned again, wich means either

 

- Kishimoto is a really bad writer who lost the overall view of his story

 

or

 

- crucial changes regarding following events were made, wich affected the outcome of the Story.

 

Pick one. Or both.

 

 

2. "We" could not just "actually say that", that's the way it is. There is no point in going after a Girl who is in love with your supposed rival if he Shows no interest in her. Other than that, you have no factual evidence to back up your claim expect Sakuras Suggestion in "The Last", on wich Kishimoto/SP/His Editors must've thought that this is the least damaging "Explanation" in regards to an already established plotline they never went through with.

Edited by lupina, 22 September 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[gamma]

 

A Makoto avatar? All the game's characters are great, but she was my favorite. 

 

Yay! Another Makoto stans! I love all of them as well, but her and Futaba are my girls 

[LuckyChi7]

You know I can't believe it's already been more than a month, but I'm finally going to conclude the explanation on  Narusaku and why it makes sense with this third and final part... Brace yourselves cause it's gonna be a long one: 

 

 

Let's start out with our hyper knucklehead of a hero (man i miss saying that), Naruto Uzumaki: 

 

 

 

 

 

During the bell test training with Sakura, what's the first thing he see from his thoughts on her: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are eyes of being terrified those are eyes of damn she's so beautiful to the girl standing before him.  

 

 

Also you've got this scene right after that: 

 

 

 

 

 

It's been two years since he's last seen her, and he still has feelings for Sakura just from this dialogue alone. 

 

 

 

Then you've got this: 

 

 

 

 

Just like with the Bell test training, you see look of amazement in Naruto's eyes towards Sakura as she's healing Konkuro. 

 

 

 

This part here when "Itachi" trapped Naruto under a genjutsu who was the one that broke him out of it? Sakura did and it's important to know his immediate attention goes specifically towards her. 

 

 

 

Then we get to this moment in the aftermath of Naruto's fight against Orchimaru: 

 

 

 

 

Do you see the look on his face? He is shocked even speechless for that matter thinking to himself that he harmed the girl whose most precious to him. All because he let his rage get the better of him and in a sense consume him. 

 

 

 

 

Then we cut to after the arc ends the scene at the ramen shop: 

 

 

 

This scene alone further reinstates Naruto's feelings towards Sakura, he's surprised and stares at awe that it was gonna happen.

 

 

 

Then we get probably one of the most important pieces that solidifies  Naruto's love or Sakura being reinstated:

 

 

 

 

 

That promise he's made since Part 1 has been the sole reason why he's been holding it back, and it's a big indication that matter was going to get settled. He was going to take that next step.  So again I state this manga this whole story is about Naruto.  a series that's about this kid who wants to prove everyone wrong, and accomplish goals. I get it that it wasn't stated that Sakura wasn't exactly a goal for him, but still as the title suggests NARUTO the role she represents is that of a love interest. The phrase Get the girl! Many series have done that time and time again, and it's just really baffling. 

 

 

 

 

Naruto's side of things are kind short, but that's because of points that's reinstating his feelings for Sakura it's more than as a crush it's genuine love. He puts so much aside just for her that's not exactly by defintion a crush. 

 

Actually you know what lets bring that up: 

 

Love: a deep romantic attachment towards Someone. 

 

Crush: a strong attraction that stems from a very innocent form of lust.

 

 

 

So for Naruto's case it wasn't just a crush it was genuine love like I stated before.  People just don't understand one bit.  Also if you're claiming it as a red herring then your practically destroying one of the key elements of a character. That's like taking Percy Jackson's love for Annabeth in the Percy Jackson series (which did become canon) and at the final end saying that wasn't true. He didn't really love her.  Rachel was always the choice from the beginning.  You'd be sitting there going like that doesn't make any sense at all. 

 

 

 

Now let us get into Sakura Haruno: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now take a look at this subtle in Sakura's character. without even realizing it  an attraction to Naruto has sparked within her, and I mean granted what gets followed up is amusing, but in the moment you can tell she's giving him that look of impressed. 

 

 

 

Then we cut to this scene right over here with Lady Chiyo: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This scene alone holds weight and alot towards Sakura and her feelings towards Naruto. Again she cares, but one can only notice just how much she really cares without realizing it.  Naruto does point that out to her and tries to brush off the talk, but even then Naruto is the only thing she can think about. 

 

 

 

 

 

After Gaara had the jinchuriki removed from him,  only Naruto throws a fit about it, and look at at how Sakura is towards Naruto. She just genuinely feels bad for him almost wanting to comfort himself as well when you really look at it.

 

 

 

Now comes the big moments:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah sure you can say cause of Sasuke, but that's not the point.  She doesn't do a damn thing to Sai not because of working together to save Sasuke, but becuase Naruto is one that points it out. It's even more important to keep in mind what Sai says to Sakura about her being gentle towards him. Again further establishing that she's unaware of how much she really cares about Naruto. 

 

 

 

 

Now things start getting real from her for Sakura's character and because it's where I was completely sold on NS: 

 

 

 

 

 

This is only just the beginning, but you can tell how shocked Sakura is to see Naruto in the state of mind that he's in especially when she remembers what Lady Chiyo had told hr, and you all know where this leads to the most important scene of all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at the lengths that Sakura is willing to go just get Naruto back to his senses.  She's not wanting to Save Sasuke for her own sake, but for Naruto and specifically Naruto alone. Again further establishing just how much he really means to her especially with this next upcoming scene: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

my man Yamato is on the dot with this... I mean look at this she doesn't think she can do much Naruto, but Yamato making points!  Sakura doesn't realize that, but she is developing feelings for Naruto, and in stories that is entirely possible even here and remember this is NARUTO'S STORY. Who does Sakura Haruno represent? His love interest correct? That's exactly what the story's setting its course towards with this scene alone. 

 

 

 

 

 

This scene alone is another key important moment for Sakura cause Naruto doesn't realize what he had done especially to the love of his life atleast not until after this scene ,but you get where I'm getting at. Sakura knew how hurt Naruto will probably have felt if she had told him what happened, and for his sake she's keeping it to herself. Why? so she doesn't hurt him. 

 

 

 

 

 

Again I'm gonna point it out, her concern for Naruto without realizing how much she feels for him is there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again Sakura Haruno putting Naruto before herself right after their encounter with Sasuke  almost like the end of Part 1. 

 

 

 

 

Now we cut to this scene here: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right before she's about to feed Naruto, she thinks back to their conversation in the hospital.  Yes Sasuke got brought up again, but again who is it that comes to her mind it's none other than Naruto am i right? That is exactly what it is. 

 

 

 

Now lets cut to another big moment: 

 

 

 

 

Right before his most bad ass entrance ever, Sakura calls out to him. Then we've got arguably one of the best moments for NS: 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at how speechless he is after recieving that Sakura and just look at Sakura truly feels about having Naruto coming back to the village, and quite honestly she's got every right. He nearly killed himself, and that just makes her feel so relieved to see that he's okay after everything's said and done. Once again because of she truly feels about Naruto, and this scene shows. 

 

 

 

Now we cut to the scene and it has to be said: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now Kishi are you trying to tell me this isn't realistic? Well answer my question... Seriously what were you smoking?  Something toxic that's for sure that really messed up your quality in  writing significantly... How the hell does this scene match with the ending? how it really doesn't. No character would pull the kind of thing you made Sakura do after this chapter.   Anyway my point is Look at Sakura's reaction... This is how she genuienly feels about the matter with this realization.  It's like I've been saying  She's thinking about Naruto before herself and that's exactly what we've been building up to this scene supports that 100%. 

 

 

 

 

Wanna know another series that handled this perfectly,  Psyren:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You might be wondering why i'm bringing this into the discussion well its similar to Sai and Sakura's conversation in a way only here (funny enough) the main female's, in psyren's first name is Sakurako (and cause that's what the official translations go by)  feelings instead of it being the other way around.   

 

 

Now we all remember  after the scene with Sakura: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again Kishi, what the hell are you smoking? It doesn't add up one bit. Right there in one line a girl's  feelings can change like the seasons right? You're telling me after realizing that Naruto has loved her all this time, That she has to lie because you think "THAT's what makes her a true woman?"  That's not realistic at all that is just pure absolute trash.  I remember full well what you said about Sakura, AN HONEST, BUT STUBBORN GIRL! don't think I forgot about that and it fits perfectly with this scene, and you just pretend like none of it even matters. Seriously, I'll be shocked if you actually manage to make the romance in your next manga (if it ever comes out) have the same dynamic as NaruSaku and it actually becomes Canon because as a fellow writer myself this has proven you don't know how to write romance, and I'm gonna stand by that until and if your next series proves me wrong. 

 

 

 

So you see what Kishi did with after the realization ,but now look at how Iwashiro handles a confession in Psyren with Sakurako and Yoshina:

 

 

 

 

 

 

See now that's how you handle a confession right there Iwashiro > Kishi anyday, but anyway I just mainly brought  Psyren into the mix as  a comparison between how these two series handled the confession with their lead female leads. 

 

 

 

 

After this moment it had been very long time before we got anything from Sakura's thoughts needless to say we didn't get anything after that, but lets just go ahead and dive into the war arc: 

 

 

 

What is it that Kishi here is trying to do, showcase that the confession Sakura made to Naruto wasn't exactly a lie. You can tell that everything that was being said from the previous arcs are still panning out in that direction. Just the look in her eyes show that she has a special feeling for Naruto, and it shows more often: 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again putting Naruto before her own needs! I mean do i need to say more. 

 

 

 

 

 I think this one is pretty self explanatory if you ask me, I mean come on who wouldn't feel a little embarrassed if your parent the girl you love is your girlfriend? I'm sure many of us would.  I mean sure the love of your life would feel a little embarrassed about it too if you asked me i mean look at how Sakura feels about the whole thing.  You know  what i get it that Sasuke shows up soon after, but keep focus on this: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to address the fact that SASUKE is already there, and yet after all this time who is it that Sakura Haruno is concerned about? definitely not Sasuke cause once again it's obviously Naruto and the manga backs this up time and time again.  Lets go even further: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then we cut to probably one of the most legendary moments in the fanbase: 

 

 

 

 

 

This overhere was a complete seal the deal not just for NaruSaku, but also for SasuKarin.  The parallels are there for the two women that deeply care about the ones in danger, and here is thing Sasuke's still there and throughout the whole time Sakura doesn't even once think about him. Know why, because her role in Naruto's story is to be portrayed as his love interest, and that's what we've been building towards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again ,  Naruto is the only one that comes to her mind during the entire time, and that shows growth and i mean tremendous amount of growth in development for her as a character. 

 

 

 

 

Let's not forget about this as well. 

 

 

 

 

EVEN THE COOLEST GUY EVER   points this out to Sakura too about how far she's willing to go because of Naruto I mean come on and that is still 685 chapters deep into the story. Once again it continues to be backed up by the previous arcs. 

 

 

Then finally we have Chapter 690: 

 

 

 

 

Okay a little bit of comedy is necessary, but it is pretty amusing just looking at this scene, but anyway lets get to the main point: 

 

 

 

 

Now at first glance you might be thinking why this? well again Sasuke is there he hasn't exactly pulled the revelation card just yet so you would think that Sakura would say "Sasuke who is he?" instead who does she ask? Naruto why because the manga's been showcasing these small subtle hints behind not only her growth in terms of as a character, but also for NaruSaku. Truth be told its the last legit real moment we have in the manga before well we all know what happens. 

 

 

Man I can't believe we finally managed to get to this point, but I finally managed to pretty much cover everything that I needed to regarding NaruSaku, and it's not a red herring. I'm sorry there is no way you can convince me that everything that was building up was all meant to be for nothing. I understand in a shounen series romance should not be the focus, and that's not what Naruto was about. NaruSaku didn't not overtake the plot of Naruto it was littered throughout the story just like in other mangas like Rave Master, Deadman Wonderland, Tokyo Ghoul, O-Parts Hunter, Sukedachi 9, A Silent Voice, Assassination Classroom. All these mangas have it romances in their stories and in each one the end result always makes sense.  Whatever, Kishi is suggesting since the ending is nothing more than pure ludicrous to me. I honestly believe that  there will come a time when Kishi will admit the truth, but it'll be a while before it happens... years even.  

 

 

We all know how the ending turned out, but NaruSaku never died after that, sure Kishi and everyone that was involved with Naruto aren't gonna admit to it, but the legacy of NaruSaku is certainly going to live on forever. Believe I know since in my story I've actually got a couple planned out and you say they represent the spirits of NaruSaku more so with their serious moments and less with the comedic ones if that makes any sense. 

 

 

So that is pretty much all i have to say you guys, and that I got to say it's been fun looking back on these moments like it really makes me sad, but it makes feel reassured that moving forward their legacy will carry on forever. 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Wonder how long until you-know-who appears to try to pick apart every panel as to why they don't support NS. XP

[Bail o' Lies]

Wonder how long until you-know-who appears to try to pick apart every panel as to why they don't support NS. XP

It's late... so early in the morning.

[hinataiscreepy]

I'm back ya'll, but yeah its why many say Hinata is best for Naruto cause she has big boobs and sweet hips perfect for child birth and that she has a blood line so she will make powerful babies.

 

Its why in away Db is better than Naruto yes Goku is stupid but both He Vegeta and Gohan didn't pick wives that would make their young all the more powerful with the latter two at least Vegeta fell in love with Bulma and Gohan feel in love with Videl and what is funny a film was never really needed to bring them or show them why they fell in love, we know that they loved each other.

 

Plus I think we can both agree Vegeta is a better man than Sasuke will ever be, plus I have been watching one piece more and well as other far older anime.

 

Vegeta's character development is literally the opposite of Sasuke.

 

Kishi tried to make Sasuke his big boss and its too similar to MGS3 but the way Big Boss is written is far more superior, and subtle.

 

Found this analysis on the Snakes. 

 

https://comicvine.ga...ss-and-1876701/

 

 

I find the fact that one of Big Boss's most defining traits is overwhelming charisma to be very interesting. It's not what you would expect from a character in that archetype, typically a character like Big Boss would be a dark, brooding antihero, but he's actually the exact OPPOSITE of a man of few words. That's Kojima writing for you.

 

 

 

The guy is goofy, he's got a genuine sense of humor that makes him likable to people, but when things become serious, he leaves his men in awe with his knowledge and spirit. I find this character trait of overwhelming charisma, which is so amazing that it arguably becomes the heroes greatest tool and can even convince enemies to aid him, which you can also find in characters like Goku, Luffy, and Superman, to be extremely interesting, but with Big Boss it is especially so because you do not expect him to be that type of character, and every single time he shows his amazing leadership, it catches me off guard.

 

What I really enjoy though, is how this same trait is also possessed by Solid Snake, but in a much more subtle way. He really is a loner, he doesn't have as big a mouth as Big Boss does, so he only really opens up to people individually, after getting to know them. Big Boss has to lead an entire army meaning he can't possibly have individual, personal relationships with every single soldier, he has to be an icon and a leader more than a friend. But Snake specializes in one-on-one relationships. Instead of amassing an entire army to follow him, he instead focuses on a few personal relationships and making them as deep as possible.

Meryl, Raiden, and Otacon all revere Snake just as much as Big Boss's men revere him, but it's out of love, not creepy obsession like how Ocelot and others treat Big Boss. This is because Big Boss pushes his own beliefs onto others and makes them follow him (he literally kidnaps enemy soldiers and holds them in prison until they join him) but Snake is much more selfless in how he inspires people (but this ironically makes him come off as more cold).

 

Look at his conversation with Raiden. He never tells Raiden what exactly to believe in, he knows that is not for him to decide, Raiden has to find his own ideology that he believes in. Snake does the same with Meryl, Otacon, and others. Snake simply pushes them into believing in something of their own choice, rather than telling them exactly what to believe in. This makes Snake's minimal relationships much more genuine and personal than Big Boss's, and leads to characters like Raiden choosing to follow the same or similar ideology as Snake anyway, strengthening Raiden as a person immensely and allowing him to follow his own path that is inspired by Snake, whereas Big Boss's followers are all dependent on him and obsessed with him.

What do you guys think about this aspect of their characters? Kojima really tailored Big Boss's character very delicately when writing the prequels in order to contrast with Snake in a way that expresses all of the core themes of the franchise.

Edited by hinataiscreepy, 23 September 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[T XD]

Wonder how long until you-know-who appears to try to pick apart every panel as to why they don't support NS. XP

One of the usual cooked stew : NS is a red herring since the beginning, we didn't understand when we were reading, Naruto had a crush, Naruto and Sakura had platonic feelings towards each other, NH and SS were planned form the beginning, Naruto wasn't aware of the love he had for Hinata.

 

This stew is without the salt I need in it.

Edited by T XD, 23 September 2017 - 03:28 PM.

[lupina]

One of the usual cooked stew : NS is a red herring since the beginning, we didn't understand when we were reading, Naruto had a crush, Naruto and Sakura had platonic feelings towards each other, NH and SS were planned form the beginning, Naruto wasn't of the love he had for Hinata.

 

This stew is without the salt I need in it.

 

This especially.

She used the term "fell into the love he alread had", which I found hilarious, because such such a thing does not exist.  

When you have feelings for someone, you know it. You can be unsure about their nature (platonic, romantic), but YOU  KNOW IT. 100%. There is no way around that. 

If you don't know you are supposed to have feelings for someone ... you don't have them. They do not exist. 

[Kagomaru]

 

This especially.

She used the term "fell into the love he alread had", which I found hilarious, because such such a thing does not exist.  

When you have feelings for someone, you know it. You can be unsure about their nature (platonic, romantic), but YOU  KNOW IT. 100%. There is no way around that. 

If you don't know you are supposed to have feelings for someone ... you don't have them. They do not exist. 

Heck, take Sakura during the Zabuza arc.   When Naruto was devising his counter-assault on Zabuza, Sakura stated that she was experiencing a feeling towards Naruto that she couldn't identify, but we see her blushing during this scene.

Edited by Kagomaru, 23 September 2017 - 02:34 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Did somebody brought up MGS3? o_O

[The Doctor forever]

Did somebody brought up MGS3? o_O

Yep but its a good game older than Naruto and makes sense as well that Kishi would copy many ideas from a far better writer as well after all.

[sushi.]

 
This especially.
She used the term "fell into the love he alread had", which I found hilarious, because such such a thing does not exist.  
When you have feelings for someone, you know it. You can be unsure about their nature (platonic, romantic), but YOU  KNOW IT. 100%. There is no way around that. 
If you don't know you are supposed to have feelings for someone ... you don't have them. They do not exist. 

Moreover, it is SAKURA that is confused about her feelings, evidently in the both manga and databooks. Naruto is a character who knows himself, what he wants and what he feels. It is possible to not realize you're in love, but it doesn't work for Naruto. He's blunt and honest and straightforward. The theory can work for many people but not him!

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Did somebody brought up MGS3? o_O

Just a quote from someone comparing Big Boss to Solid Snake (being similar, yet different) using that to also compare both of them and how complex they were to how poorly and cliche Sasuke's character was written.

As mentioned, Kishi clearly tries to take elements from others who were capable of creating much better stories and/or characters; IIRC, having said Akira Toriyama and Dragon Ball were inspirations for him.

[lupina]

Just a quote from someone comparing Big Boss to Solid Snake (being similar, yet different) using that to also compare both of them and how complex they were to how poorly and cliche Sasuke's character was written.

As mentioned, Kishi clearly tries to take elements from others who were capable of creating much better stories and/or characters; IIRC, having said Akira Toriyama and Dragon Ball were inspirations for him.

 

That reminds me: didn't Son Goku promise Chichi to marry her because he thought a bride was ... something to eat?

[TheFirstEvil100]

 

That reminds me: didn't Son Goku promise Chichi to marry her because he thought a bride was ... something to eat?

lol Yes he did but let Toriyama did say Goku was meant to be simple as he lived all on his own, in the woods.