4036 replies to this topic

[ramenanmitsu]

No, I don't look at it like that, but then again 0.01% is not exactly the right percentage now is it? I think it is a lot higher than that. Especially when I know 10 girls like this off the back of my mind that I know of. And no, not all females in these series are like that. Temari, Tsunade, Ten-Ten, so many females have nothing of that sort at all going on about them. They are just regular girls with their own personalities. I'm sorry, but you can't ignore them otherwise you are doing what you just say not to do.
You're looking at 4 girls and assuming that is the outlier for the entire female population for the Naruto manga. That's like me looking at Naruto, Kakashi, and Sasuke, and Minato and saying "all the guys in this show are just like these four."

ALL the girls in Naruto universe who have unrequited love are depicted like that. In real life not all girls are love obsessed emotional freaks who'll just throw their life away or accept being treated like they don't exist.

Naruto, Kakashi, Sasuke, and Minato does not have this problem.

[Hiraishin]

I don't know ): No one ever answers me when I ask ):
I'm feeling Hinata ):

It should be out by Monday.

[James S Cassidy]

But do you realise that there is a difference of having one character like that and having all the characters representing the same bs? Doesn't that tell you something about the writing?

You do realize that just because of what Sakura, Hinata, Karin, and Ino does does not mean that all the girls in this manga have done the same thing right? I am sure there are similarities, but then I can make similarities with any character in the series. Doesn't mean all the girls behave the same way these 4 do or think the same way. What? You think just because they are secondary characters means we can't count them in the equation? That's stereotyping at its finest.

I might as well say "Sasuke is basically all men in a nutshell." It would be no different than what you are saying here.

What does it tell me about the writing? I don't know. Many elements in Naruto have been used in other stories. You think Sakura is the only anime girl who has done stuff like this? You need to open your horizons more. There are many things, styles, and ethics that exist in Naruto that also exist in many other manga and anime.

I could argue High School of the Dead plays the reverse of this with takashi still hung over Rei who treated him like crap, abandoned him and blamed him for all her problems more or less and yet she comes crawling back to him when the boyfriend she was dating died. Meanwhile Saeko treats Takashi with respect, thinks highly of him, but also knows his weaknesses, and is willing to follow him and do anything for him. Yet Takashi still has a soft spot for Rei.

This is not a new concept, actually.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 September 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[luffyq1]

No, I don't look at it like that, but then again 0.01% is not exactly the right percentage now is it? I think it is a lot higher than that. Especially when I know 10 girls like this off the back of my mind that I know of. And no, not all females in these series are like that. Temari, Tsunade, Ten-Ten, so many females have nothing of that sort at all going on about them. They are just regular girls with their own personalities. I'm sorry, but you can't ignore them otherwise you are doing what you just say not to do.

You're looking at 4 girls and assuming that is the outlier for the entire female population for the Naruto manga. That's like me looking at Naruto, Kakashi, and Sasuke, and Minato and saying "all the guys in this show are just like these four."

I never said all females get treated like this in the story. But the females I have talked about are usually the ones who are front and center. Sakura, Hinata and Karin. One of which is the female lead of this story. All three of them have reached a low point in this war arc. Hinata tripping over a rock, Karin having no self-respect and Sakura turning into the sopping, emotional train wreck we saw in this chapter. 
 
Those three women are ruled by their feelings for the boys and is made into a flaw that one of them has yet to even acknowledge. That one person is Hinata, which can be argued that she's the worse of the bunch.
 

EDIT: Okay, not "all". But these girls have more panels than any other girl in the series. I mean, the only girls that are constantly showed are involved just in love.  That's their plot. That's their story. That's their development or that's what makes them suffer.

This.

Edited by luffyq1, 28 September 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[Namaenash]

This chapter makes me crave more for NaruSaku to become a couple already.

 

I didnt catch up all the discussion in this thread --only few of it, pardon my ignorance... As I posted elsewhere. This chapter addresses one fundamental question to Sakura. Few years back, we’re not very certain what was the direction the manga will take when chapter 181 was released. Will Sakura one day be able to save Sasuke from the darkness through her “love” and “commitment”? Today, we got the answer point blank: Sakura is not meant to save Sasuke. She can’t save him, although she tried, but she’s not the one. Never once, and probably never will.

 

 

Sasuke's redemption is inevitable. It will happen one way or another. He need to be redeemed for a few solid reasons: (a) To end the war and to release people from Infinite Tsukiyomi, (b) To end the cycle of hatred and © To fulfill Naruto's Promise of a Lifetime. These three goals are in a way independent of each other, but it is linked to the same source: Sasuke's redemption. So, I strongly believe it will happen and I'll sit back, lower my expectation and enjoy how Kishi will portray it...

 

On the other side of the equation, Kishi also slowly closing the loose ends. Making his story to come to a full circle. Do you guys remember when Naruto summoned Gamabunta for the first time? Do you remember what he said? Yes, he said “絶対に”, which means “absolutely”. He is absolutely going to save Sakura-chan at all cost (she will die if he failed to defeat Gaara). Hundreds of chapters down the road, the same phrase is repeated again. 絶対に “absolutely”. This time, it was Sakura who is determined to save Naruto at all cost (he will die if she failed to keep him alive).

 

 

Kishi is making his story to come to a full circle.

 

Whether people would consider Sakura just made another confession to Sasuke, it's up to individual intepretation. To me, it is clear it is an act out of desperation ---that she desperately wanted Sasuke to change his mind. Nothing else she can do but to try to touch his heart --which she misserably failed to do so. And Sasuke 'killed' her mentally through genjutsu. Remember, emotional wound is much more difficult to recover than physical wound.

 

Folks, Sakura knows her teammates well enough (Naruto and Sasuke) that normal argument will not be sufficient to convince their decision. Back in part 1, she did the same before Sasuke left. At The Land of Iron, she did the same to cancel Naruto's Promise of a Lifetime. Now, she also tried the same ---and she failed on three of those events.

 

I personally look forward on how Naruto will fulfill his Promise of a Lifetime and what will happen once it is fulfilled. It is the foundation of the story ever since the statement was made --to bring back Sasuke home. It is a noble act, which constraint him to move forward --he can't tell Sakura and pursue her romantically, he probably won't be able to move on with his love life...

 

It could be interpretted as a promise that he will keep as long as he live. It could also be interpretted as a promise that requires his lifetime (he'd need to sacrifice his life, or part of it in order to fulfill the promise). Soon enough, Kishi will connect another dots in his story, hence making it closer to a full circle: Promise of a Lifetime fulfillment...

 

So, just sit back, see the story as a whole and lower your expectation. I have no doubts NS will happen, I just want to see how and when it'll be realized...

[Princess Iris]

I never said all females get treated like this in the story. But the females I have talked about are usually the ones who are front and center. Sakura, Hinata and Karin. One of which is the female lead of this story. All three of them have reached a low point in this war arc. Hinata tripping over a rock, Karin having no self-respect and Sakura turning into the sopping, emotional train wreck we saw in this chapter. 
 
Those three women are ruled by their feelings for the boys and is made into a flaw that one of them has yet to even acknowledge. That one person is Hinata, which can be argued that she's the worse of the bunch.
 
This.

True

My reaction for Handhold :

Is she gone mad?? It is war goin on!!
Not the time u talk about how u chase someone & dreamin about holding his hand

for Karin : Where is her self respect...She forgave him so easily and started clinging like glue!!

Sakura : U know he doesn't like u at all.....And u think ur confession will stop him


NEVER!

[Khaleesi]

You do realize that just because of what Sakura, Hinata, Karin, and Ino does does not mean that all the girls in this manga have done the same thing right? I am sure there are similarities, but then I can make similarities with any character in the series. Doesn't mean all the girls behave the same way these 4 do or think the same way. What? You think just because they are secondary characters means we can't count them in the equation? That stereotyping at it's finest.

I might as well say "Sasuke is basically all men in a nutshell." It would be no different than what you are saying here.

What does it tell me about the writing? I don't know. Many elements in Naruto have been used in other stories. You think Sakura is the only anime girl who has done stuff like this? You need to open your horizons more. There are many things, styles, and ethics that exist in Naruto that also exist in many other manga and anime.

I could argue High School of the Dead plays the reverse of this with takashi still hung over Rei who treated him like crap, abandoned him and blamed him for all her problems more or less and yet she comes crawling back to him when the boyfriend she was dating died. Meanwhile Saeko treats Takashi with respect, thinks highly of him, but also knows his weaknesses, and is willing to follow him and do anything for him. Yet Takashi still has a soft spot for Rei.

This is not a new concept, actually.

"EDIT: Okay, not "all". But these girls have more panels than any other girl in the series. I mean, the only girls that are constantly showed are involved just in love. That's their plot. That's their story. That's their development or that's what makes them suffer."

[rocci]

Namaesh just solo this thread.

[ns.Believe.It]

The only disappointment I have with Kishi's writing is his tendency to over-exaggerate things. 

 

For instance, The bond between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto over-exaggerates their bond to a point where the readers start to feel sick of reading it. Naruto's idealism of understanding and forgiving is another aspect that gets way way over-exaggerated. 

 

Sakura is no exception to this. Kishimoto wants to let his readers know that her love for Sasuke is like a cancer to her character. However, Just like in Naruto's case , he overdoes this. For some reason, he seems to believe its necessary to point out these things once every few chapters.

 

The thing is, the readers don't need to be reminded of the same thing over and over again. Doing so only makes the readers frustrated with the characters and this is exactly what has happened in Naruto's case. People are sick of Naruto's obsession with Sasuke and the bromance between the two. After this chapter, some people inevitably get frustrated with Sakura too. 

 

I don't think its Kishi's intention to downgrade his characters. 'Over-exaggerating' is just one of his flaws as a writer. 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 28 September 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

ALL the girls in Naruto universe who have unrequited love are depicted like that. In real life not all girls are love obsessed emotional freaks who'll just throw their life away or accept being treated like they don't exist.

Naruto, Kakashi, Sasuke, and Minato does not have this problem.

Yeah, and not all girls in this story are products of unrequited love or are love obsessed. What about them or you just don't look at that part?

Hmm...Alright, fair point, but there is still the same thing for the men in this circumstance

Naruto...Hashirama...Jiraiya...
These three men have a very similar story lineup.
-All three had a friend who they consider a brother they could not save
-All three believed in being the hero to change the world
-All three had that friend that was corrupted and obsessed over power

Naruto and Jiriaya and Obito share even more specifically
-All of them had an unrequited love
-All of them were seen as morons and lackeys
-All of them believed in a dream to change the world.

Sasuke, Madara, Obito, and Indra all seemed to share similar properties.

The list can keep going and I can pull many different similarities between these characters. These all played apart of the main story, but not all men in this series behave the same way they do.
 

I never said all females get treated like this in the story. But the females I have talked about are usually the ones who are front and center. Sakura, Hinata and Karin. One of which is the female lead of this story. All three of them have reached a low point in this war arc. Hinata tripping over a rock, Karin having no self-respect and Sakura turning into the sopping, emotional train wreck we saw in this chapter. 
 
Those three women are ruled by their feelings for the boys and is made into a flaw that one of them has yet to even acknowledge. That one person is Hinata, which can be argued that she's the worse of the bunch.
 

This.

 

You either look at everything or you look at nothing. I'm sorry, but no exceptions. I don't care what involvement in the story they had.

I can selectively look at partial of your information too and ignore some of those bits and pieces just to alter the facts at hand as well. It's not that hard.
 

 

 

The only disappointment I have with Kishi's writing is his tendency to over-exaggerate things. 

 

For instance, The bond between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto over-exaggerates their bond to a point where the readers start to feel sick of reading it. Naruto's idealism of understanding and forgiving is another aspect that gets way way over-exaggerated. 

 

Sakura is no exception to this. Kishimoto wants to let his readers know that her love for Sasuke is like a cancer to her character. However, Just like in Naruto's case , he overdoes this. For some reason, he seems to believe its necessary to point out these things once every few chapters.

 

The thing is, the readers don't need to be reminded of the same thing over and over again. Doing so only makes the readers frustrated with the characters and this is exactly what has happened in Naruto's case. People are sick of Naruto's obsession with Sasuke and the bromance between the two. After this chapter, some people inevitably get frustrated with Sakura too. 

 

I don't think its Kishi's intention to downgrade his characters. Over-exaggerating things is just one of his big flaws as a writer. 

This one I agree with. He is hammering things too hard in to establish something and sadly it is having the opposite effect on things.

Then again, this Naruto fandom in general is weird at not taking the hint sometimes so the point gets lost anyway. How many times has Sasuke said "I don't love Sakura" or something to that degree and people still think he is harboring feelings for her?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 September 2014 - 05:22 AM.

[Princess Iris]

This chapter makes me crave more for NaruSaku to become a couple already.
 
I didnt catch up all the discussion in this thread --only few of it, pardon my ignorance... As I posted elsewhere. This chapter addresses one fundamental question to Sakura. Few years back, were not very certain what was the direction the manga will take when chapter 181 was released. Will Sakura one day be able to save Sasuke from the darkness through her love and commitment? Today, we got the answer point blank: Sakura is not meant to save Sasuke. She cant save him, although she tried, but shes not the one. Never once, and probably never will.
 

 
Sasuke's redemption is inevitable. It will happen one way or another. He need to be redeemed for a few solid reasons: (a) To end the war and to release people from Infinite Tsukiyomi, (b) To end the cycle of hatred and © To fulfill Naruto's Promise of a Lifetime. These three goals are in a way independent of each other, but it is linked to the same source: Sasuke's redemption. So, I strongly believe it will happen and I'll sit back, lower my expectation and enjoy how Kishi will portray it...
 
On the other side of the equation, Kishi also slowly closing the loose ends. Making his story to come to a full circle. Do you guys remember when Naruto summoned Gamabunta for the first time? Do you remember what he said? Yes, he said 絶対に, which means absolutely. He is absolutely going to save Sakura-chan at all cost (she will die if he failed to defeat Gaara). Hundreds of chapters down the road, the same phrase is repeated again. 絶対に absolutely. This time, it was Sakura who is determined to save Naruto at all cost (he will die if she failed to keep him alive).
 

 
Kishi is making his story to come to a full circle.
 
Whether people would consider Sakura just made another confession to Sasuke, it's up to individual intepretation. To me, it is clear it is an act out of desperation ---that she desperately wanted Sasuke to change his mind. Nothing else she can do but to try to touch his heart --which she misserably failed to do so. And Sasuke 'killed' her mentally through genjutsu. Remember, emotional wound is much more difficult to recover than physical wound.
 
Folks, Sakura knows her teammates well enough (Naruto and Sasuke) that normal argument will not be sufficient to convince their decision. Back in part 1, she did the same before Sasuke left. At The Land of Iron, she did the same to cancel Naruto's Promise of a Lifetime. Now, she also tried the same ---and she failed on three of those events.
 
I personally look forward on how Naruto will fulfill his Promise of a Lifetime and what will happen once it is fulfilled. It is the foundation of the story ever since the statement was made --to bring back Sasuke home. It is a noble act, which constraint him to move forward --he can't tell Sakura and pursue her romantically, he probably won't be able to move on with his love life...
 
It could be interpretted as a promise that he will keep as long as he live. It could also be interpretted as a promise that requires his lifetime (he'd need to sacrifice his life, or part of it in order to fulfill the promise). Soon enough, Kishi will connect another dots in his story, hence making it closer to a full circle: Promise of a Lifetime fulfillment...
 
So, just sit back, see the story as a whole and lower your expectation. I have no doubts NS will happen, I just want to see how and when it'll be realized...

well said!!

[Khaleesi]

The only disappointment I have with Kishi's writing is his tendency to over-exaggerate things. 

 

For instance, The bond between Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto over-exaggerates their bond to a point where the readers start to feel sick of reading it. Naruto's idealism of understanding and forgiving is another aspect that gets way way over-exaggerated. 

 

Sakura is no exception to this. Kishimoto wants to let his readers know that her love for Sasuke is like a cancer to her character. However, Just like in Naruto's case , he overdoes this. For some reason, he seems to believe its necessary to point out these things once every few chapters.

 

The thing is, the readers don't need to be reminded of the same thing over and over again. Doing so only makes the readers frustrated with the characters and this is exactly what has happened in Naruto's case. People are sick of Naruto's obsession with Sasuke and the bromance between the two. After this chapter, some people inevitably get frustrated with Sakura too. 

 

I don't think its Kishi's intention to downgrade his characters. Over-exaggerating things is just one of his big flaws as a writer. 

The funny thing is that all this "over-exaggerations" fits perfectly in one or another emotional/mental issue or personality disorder...

I was thiking about this and i realised that from the psychological point of view...this story is creppy as hell...

 

I'm trying to send this kitten for over more than 10 minutes and my internet keeps ruining it. If ths time it doesn't send, i will throw my laptop for the window.

&%$&%$$

 

 

Me about this chapter:

Edited by theunburnt, 28 September 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

The funny thing is that all this "over-exaggerations" fits perfectly in one or another emotional/mental issue or personality disorder...

I was thiking about this and i realised that from the psychological point of view...this story is creppy as hell...

 

I'm trying to send this kitten for over more than 10 minutes and my internet keeps ruining it. If ths time it doesn't send, i will throw my laptop for the window.

&%$&%$$

Evangelion is laughing right now.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 September 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Yeah, and not all girls in this story are products of unrequited love or are love obsessed. What about them or you just don't look at that part?
Hmm...Alright, fair point, but there is still the same thing for the men in this circumstance
Naruto...Hashirama...Jiraiya...
These three men have a very similar story lineup.
-All three had a friend who they consider a brother they could not save
-All three believed in being the hero to change the world
-All three had that friend that was corrupted and obsessed over power
Naruto and Jiriaya and Obito share even more specifically
-All of them had an unrequited love
-All of them were seen as morons and lackeys
-All of them believed in a dream to change the world.
Sasuke, Madara, Obito, and Indra all seemed to share similar properties.
The list can keep going and I can pull many different similarities between these characters. These all played apart of the main story, but not all men in this series behave the same way they do.

You missed my point. I'm specifically talking about how Kishi depicts love from the girls point of view. Therefore, Tenten, Temari or other girls have nothing to do with this topic.

He is writing all the girls with one-sided love have some serious psychological problem like self-destructiveness, suicidal, no self respect. Do the boys who have unrequited love in the manga have this problem? Moreover are 80% of their panel time dedicated to love? In real life, do all girls who have one-sided love have suicidal tendencies, or self-destructiveness. No, they don't. This is why I'm saying Kishi's portrayal of girls are disgusting. They are written like girls with no self-respect, self-destructive and suicidal. While the guys who have one-sided love are written like heroes.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 28 September 2014 - 05:34 AM.

[luffyq1]

Yeah, and not all girls in this stories of products of unrequited love or are love obsessed. What about them or you just don't look at that part?

Hmm...Alright, fair point, but there is still the same thing for the men in this circumstance

Naruto...Hashirama...Jiraiya...
These three men have a very similar story lineup.
-All three had a friend who they consider a brother they could not save
-All three believed in being the hero to change the world
-All three had that friend that was corrupted and obsessed over power

Naruto and Jiriaya and Obito share even more specifically
-All of them had an unrequited love
-All of them were seen as morons and lackeys
-All of them believed in a dream to change the world.

Sasuke, Madara, Obito, and Indra all seemed to share similar properties.

The list can keep going and I can pull many different similarities between these characters.
 

 

You either look at everything or you look at nothing. I'm sorry, but no exceptions. I don't care what involvement in the story they had.

I can selectively look at partial of your information too and ignore some of those bits and pieces just to alter the facts at hand as well. It's not that hard.

I am looking at everything and when I look at everything I see three females who are emphasized when it comes to their love interest. It's like the people who were saying that Kishi treats his females well since he made Kaguya into the apparent final villian. Your argument is quality over quantity and the quality is just too damaging.

[James S Cassidy]

You missed my point. I'm specifically talking about how Kishi depicts love from the girls point of view. Therefore, Tenten, Temari or other girls have nothing to do with this topic.

He is writing all the girls with one-sided love have some serious psychological problem like self-destructiveness, suicidal, no self respect. Do the boys who have unrequited love in the manga have this problem? Moreover are 80% of their panel time dedicated to love? In real life, do all girls who have one-sided love have suicidal tendencies, or self-destructiveness. No, they don't.

You are missing my point when I say that you can not selectively look at one part of it.

You told me that you can't look at 0.01% of women and assume that represents the entire female population. What do you think you are doing here?

I'm done with this conversation. Moving on. I am not replying to your post either, Luffy. Sorry, but I am moving on. It's over.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 September 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[Khaleesi]

Evangelion is laughing right now.

 

These characters need a self-brutal-talk like the last two chapters of Evangelion...

[ramenanmitsu]

You are missing my point when I say that you can not selectively look at one part of it.
You told me that you can't look at 0.01% of women and assume that represents the entire female population. What do you think you are doing here?
I'm done with this conversation. Moving on.

And you are missing my point because I am talking about that one part of it. My topic was girls with "unrequited feelings". And how unrealistically and over-damagingly Kishi writes them. There's no point for you to bring up girls who aren't romantically involved because they're not part of the topic.

You were the one who said that there are girls like that in real life when I talked about how unnatural Sakura, Karin, and Hinata are depicted. My answer to is that's only a very small percentage in reality as opposed to how Kishi writes all the girls having one-sided feelings like that.
But fine, since this isn't going anywhere I'm done.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 28 September 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

These characters need a self-brutal-talk like the last two chapters of Evangelion...

I know this is a tangent and I am only going to go off-topic just this once about this, but I always felt that the ending to the anime series is what was going on in Shinji's mind while the movie is what is going on in reality.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 28 September 2014 - 05:39 AM.

[ns.Believe.It]

Damn. Kishimoto's writing this chapter has led to so many disagreements and high tension levels here. *sighs*

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 28 September 2014 - 05:45 AM.