9679 replies to this topic

[Miss Soupy]

So I've been seeing some comments saying the love "triangle" was reset (Naruto -> Sakura -> Sasuke). Is it really the case or is it just Anti big 3 "propaganda".

I've seen this argued too, but I think it sort of really underestimates what real relationships are like. As if only completely positive interactions can help a relationship grow. The confession, to me, ended up being fairly neutral towards NS. Some really good things happened, like Sakura revealing how proud she is of Naruto and the removal of the POAL that burdened him. Sakura was taking steps to grow as a person and made it clear how highly she thought of Naruto.

It was by no means a perfect confession however, in that she mixed in obvious lies and had her own secret agenda that wasn't truly about revealing any of her feelings (even though it was meant for Naruto's own good). She mixed her 'I love you's with 'how could I love a criminal anyways', which is just...not a good way to go about it. It made her seem like she was settling just because Sasuke was a bad guy. It wasn't until she had already lost Naruto's belief in her words that she hugged him and told him her true feelings. Because of this, Naruto probably still doesn't have a good idea of how she feels about him.

One thing I liked about the anime adaption was that when she hugged him, it seemed like that was the moment she really thought about how much Naruto meant to her. It gave the impression that right then she could have truly realized her feelings for him and thus she was so hurt moments later when he told her he hated people who lied to themselves.

I'm still guessing that Kishi doesn't want to conclude the love triangle till close to the end when Sasuke/Naruto's issues will also be concluded. I don't believe the pairing was reset in that it is still growing and evolving as the story progresses unlike NH which doesn't have progression on Naruto's end and SS which doesn't have progression on Sasuke's. NS is the only pairing that progresses on both ends.

[Paptala]

I've seen this argued too, but I think it sort of really underestimates what real relationships are like. As if only completely positive interactions can help a relationship grow. ......
I'm still guessing that Kishi doesn't want to conclude the love triangle till close to the end when Sasuke/Naruto's issues will also be concluded. I don't believe the pairing was reset in that it is still growing and evolving as the story progresses unlike NH which doesn't have progression on Naruto's end and SS which doesn't have progression on Sasuke's. NS is the only pairing that progresses on both ends.

EXACTLY - quoted for nothing but truth.

One of the things that I love so much about Naruto and Sakura's relationship is that it is touched upon in both negative and positive lights. They've both seen each other at their best and at their worst, and I fully believe that their relationship is only going to come through stronger for it.

And despite anything else, it's development, mutual development and focus on their relationship - development and focus that other relationships simply don't have.

Also, I fully agree that both Naruto and Sakura's individual issues with Sasuke need to be resolved before their relationship can progress to a romantic level.

[K9ofChaos]

EXACTLY - quoted for nothing but truth.

One of the things that I love so much about Naruto and Sakura's relationship is that it is touched upon in both negative and positive lights. They've both seen each other at their best and at their worst, and I fully believe that their relationship is only going to come through stronger for it.

And despite anything else, it's development, mutual development and focus on their relationship - development and focus that other relationships simply don't have.

Also, I fully agree that both Naruto and Sakura's individual issues with Sasuke need to be resolved before their relationship can progress to a romantic level.

About they're issues with Sasuke. I strongly believe that Sakura moved on from her romantic crush feelings for Sasuke a long time ago (sometime between the time skip gap of Part 1 and part 2) and that the memories of those carefree youthful days were what held Sakura back from killing Sasuke.


Also about the idea about Naruto and Sakura getting together near the end of the manga. Well I think that won't be for a long time because the Shinobi World is at war with the Akatsuki and to be realistic, most wars last a long time. I think the Fourth Great Shinobi War will take multible arcs to last a long time. The authors note in volume 48 of the manga reinforces my opinion/claim as a possibility.


Sorry if this is just me repeating what you just said or misinterpreting your post but I just wanted to get my opinion out.


PS: By the way are you that Paptala person on youtube that does text commentaries on videos made by NH/SS fans that use invalid arguments? If you are then you do a good job. Sorry if this question is too obvious that it's common knowledge but I just want to make sure.

[Paptala]

About they're issues with Sasuke. I strongly believe that Sakura moved on from her romantic crush feelings for Sasuke a long time ago (sometime between the time skip gap of Part 1 and part 2) and that the memories of those carefree youthful days were what held Sakura back from killing Sasuke.

I agree that Sakura has (or is at least) in the process of moving on/realizing that her romantic feelings for Sasuke are gone. However, there are some lingering feelings left that I think needs to be said/made specifically clear before she and Naruto can completely let go. She needs to come to terms with whatever feelings held her back from killing Sasuke, and whether they are romantic or platonic or shadows of what she used to feel.

I also think it's just as, if not more, important for Naruto to understand Sakura's current feelings in regards to Sasuke. Personally, I think that one of the reasons Naruto is so set on Sakura still loving Sasuke because he is comparing Sakura's feelings of love to his own - "I know how much pain you're in because of Sasuke. I can understand."

Naruto still holds incredibly strong feelings for Sakura, and likely cannot fathom getting over them. So how could Sakura possibly move on from Sasuke (in Naruto's mind) when he has been unable to?

Also about the idea about Naruto and Sakura getting together near the end of the manga. Well I think that won't be for a long time because the Shinobi World is at war with the Akatsuki and to be realistic, most wars last a long time. I think the Fourth Great Shinobi War will take multible arcs to last a long time. The authors note in volume 48 of the manga reinforces my opinion/claim as a possibility.

I agree, but hopefully we'll get some NaruSaku development during the war in some format. 'twould be nice.

Sorry if this is just me repeating what you just said or misinterpreting your post but I just wanted to get my opinion out.

No biggie - you shouldn't ever feel that your opinion isn't welcome, even if you're disagreeing with me (or another poster).

PS: By the way are you that Paptala person on youtube that does text commentaries on videos made by NH/SS fans that use invalid arguments? If you are then you do a good job. Sorry if this question is too obvious that it's common knowledge but I just want to make sure.

Yep, that's me. Glad to hear you like my vids!

[ciardha]

Really? I never knew there were shipping wars for Ranma - I always figured it was incredibly obvious that Ranma was going to end up with Akane by the end of the series, and the other suitors for both of them were just meant to add drama and further both the plot and the main relationship between Ranma and Akane.

I mean, RanmaxShampoo is cute in fandom, but it's weird to think that people actually argued that she would be a better girlfriend for Ranma in all seriousness.

Frankly narusaku has been more obvious all along:

1)Naruto doesn't make fun of Sakura's figure or call her a tomboy in a way that's meant to be insulting
2)Naruto doesn't compare his sexy-no-jutsu body with Sakura's and mock her smaller breasts
3)Naruto doesn't react to any other girls romantic overtures, much less kind of enjoy the attention like Ranma did.
3)Sakura is much more caring and protective of Naruto, even early on in part 1 (chapter 5) when her overall opinion of Naruto was that he was much less than a steller guy.
4)Sakura is much less a tsundere than Akane was, Akane reacted with hot temper to the majority of things Ranma did

You'd be amazed to find out the RanmaxShampoo shipper actually used much the same words the naruhina shippers do, even years after the series ended too. I honestly find it really hard to believe some people actually thought (and even more stunningly still think) there would ever be anything between Naruto and Hinata or Sakura and Sasuke for that matter.

Naruto has never had any romantic feelings for Hinata whatsoever. Heck, Ranma had more feelings for Ukiyo than Naruto has ever had for Hinata. And Sasuke had absolutely zero romantic feelings for Sakura, in fact he was disgusted at her attempts at overtures. (No, this doesn't compare with shoujo manga pairings either: even when the guy is disdainful in shoujo manga it's always made obvious that he's actually strongly attracted to the girl. Sasuke and Karin's relationship is more like that type romance in shoujo manga- but Kishimoto left a message there too- even when a guy like that actually likes you, it's not going to end well.

Inuyasha was much less obvious than Naruto, because Inuyasha actually loved both. Yet I see people saying the main pairings in Naruto are much less clear? Naruto loves Sakura, Sakura grows out her naive one sided crush on Sasuke and falls in love with Naruto it's been there all along, clear as a bell since Sakura was introduced in chapter 3, heck Kishimoto made is even easier and obvious than the usual tsundere girl and the boy who likes her pairing- with Sakura's actions in chapter 5, 10, 11, 13...

[Grace]

@ciardha--

Naruto more obvious than Ranma? I disagree. Even when Ranma would enjoy the attentions of other girls, his intentions were always purely ego-driven; never romantic. His romantic focus was always on Akane, and likewise for her, from the very beginning--while it's been the case for Naruto, it has not for Sakura.

Yes Ranma teased and poked at Akane in ways that Naruto never has for Sakura, but that's because the romances differ--Ranma and Akane were always like little kids that pull their crush's hair just to get a reaction and attention. Naruto and Sakura tend to be cast in a comedic light less often (not surprising considering the tones for each series is so different), so... *shrug*.

While hints were dropped for NaruSaku in Part 1, the times they were touched on were always spread out between the rest of the plot; in Ranma 1/2, the romance is one of the main focuses and touched on in almost every single episode/volume.

[Akashi]

ciardha and Kushina-sorry, but I think it's meaningless to compare Naruto to Ranma because they're just different characters from different manga autors with different approaches to romance. So basically, it's different, lol. I'm familiar with Rumiko Takahashi's work and you could easily compare for example Ranma and Inuyasha, they're similar because she likes characters like that as well as their romantic developments. I know almost all shonen mangas have similar themes so I have to say that romantic interests are almost always pretty obvious from the start. Anyway, I have nothing against you dicsussing that, just gave my opinion.

yeah, I agree with you completely.

[Yoshimoya]

Yeah... basically from everything's that occured up till now I can summarize this:
(its good to organize your thoughts fir
(these are in no significant order, just what pops up first)

1. Naruto is still in love with Sakura.
2. Sakura fell in love with Naruto.
3. Sakura (I must admit) still has lingering feelings for Sasuke, how huge they are and how they'll affect Naruto and Sakura's potential romantic relationship is VERY unclear.. I have no idea what'll happen there.. but it WILL most definitely play a role.
4. In regards to #3, However, her feelings are definitely in a better light and STRONGER for Naruto.
5. Sasuke has yet to show ANY romantic interest in Sakura. I don't think he's even showed friendship interest AT ALL in part 2.
6. Hinata loves Naruto.
7. Naruto has yet to show ANY romantic interest in Hinata. Friendship wise they're on good terms.
8. The war is the MAIN focus right now.

It's good to organize your thoughts first before debating, and now that I've laid out and organized mine, post to agree or disagree? I'm PRETTY SURE I've stated all the facts in regards to Naruto, Sakura, Sasuke, and Hinata's relationships dynamics that affect Naruto and Sakura's potential/current relationship.

[Strangelove]

@crazyefera
You know, I have no idea what you mean when you say that the love triangle was reset, I mean I thought it was like this now?
Naruto<->Sakura->Sasuke

Love triangle?


Hinata-->Naruto<-->Sakura<--Lee

Edited by Strangelove, 12 April 2011 - 04:23 AM.

[ShippudenGirl]

Lee doesn't have a chance. Anyway, I don't like how Hinata was pulled into the whole pairing thing, I mean, I always thought it would just be a Team 7 thing but now it's like Team 7 plus some chick. Lol.

Uchiha<— Sasuke<—(?)Sakura<—>Naruto<— Hinata … or
Ino—>Sasuke<—Naruto<—>Sakura<—Rock Lee<—>Guy Sensei

Lol, yeah... Really wrong looking...

[Grace]

@Kim & Meek-- Wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two to draw any conclusions; just responding out of interest. But off-topic banter is off-topic, so my bad.

I just bought the Shounen Jump (latest one's for May already...), which covers the last of Kushina's flashback to the night Naruto was born. The part of her Mommy-says speech (in 504) where she addresses the topic of girls has been discussed a lot already (since it's been debated about whether it's a hint for NaruSaku or NaruHina, or any pairing at all), but the English translation differs enough to make me curious.

The translation as per Mangastream: "And as for women...well, I am a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... Just try not to pick a weird one... Try to find someone like your mother..."

The SJ English version (from Viz?): "And...the most problematic [topic]...girls... I'm a girl so I don't really know much about this...but at some point you'll notice girls. And that's normal. ...Just be careful...don't fall for the first girl that comes your way... Find someone...like me...!!"

Not a huge difference in the overall message except that the "weird girl" statement is traded for "first girl"--any thoughts? Does it change or alter your previous opinion on it at all?

[merryGOflava]

@Kim & Meek-- Wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two to draw any conclusions; just responding out of interest. But off-topic banter is off-topic, so my bad.

I just bought the Shounen Jump (latest one's for May already...), which covers the last of Kushina's flashback to the night Naruto was born. The part of her Mommy-says speech (in 504) where she addresses the topic of girls has been discussed a lot already (since it's been debated about whether it's a hint for NaruSaku or NaruHina, or any pairing at all), but the English translation differs enough to make me curious.

The translation as per Mangastream: "And as for women...well, I am a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... Just try not to pick a weird one... Try to find someone like your mother..."

The SJ English version (from Viz?): "And...the most problematic [topic]...girls... I'm a girl so I don't really know much about this...but at some point you'll notice girls. And that's normal. ...Just be careful...don't fall for the first girl that comes your way... Find someone...like me...!!"

Not a huge difference in the overall message except that the "weird girl" statement is traded for "first girl"--any thoughts? Does it change or alter your previous opinion on it at all?

kinda....and kinda..not? if kushina meant, dont find the first girl that falls for you instantly, then fine but if she meant dont find the girl you fell for first then i got a problem >:U

[Codus N]

Hmm... could be them trying to pick a neutral stance on pairings, maybe??

[Darth Krypt]

@Kim & Meek-- Wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two to draw any conclusions; just responding out of interest. But off-topic banter is off-topic, so my bad.

I just bought the Shounen Jump (latest one's for May already...), which covers the last of Kushina's flashback to the night Naruto was born. The part of her Mommy-says speech (in 504) where she addresses the topic of girls has been discussed a lot already (since it's been debated about whether it's a hint for NaruSaku or NaruHina, or any pairing at all), but the English translation differs enough to make me curious.

The translation as per Mangastream: "And as for women...well, I am a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... Just try not to pick a weird one... Try to find someone like your mother..."

The SJ English version (from Viz?): "And...the most problematic [topic]...girls... I'm a girl so I don't really know much about this...but at some point you'll notice girls. And that's normal. ...Just be careful...don't fall for the first girl that comes your way... Find someone...like me...!!"

Not a huge difference in the overall message except that the "weird girl" statement is traded for "first girl"--any thoughts? Does it change or alter your previous opinion on it at all?

Wow each translation meant differently. "Don't fall for the first girl that comes your way" should mean Sakura right? Omg is the Mangastream translator pro-narusaku that's why he wrote that way? But both wrote find someone like Kushina and that should also mean Sakura so we're safe.

[Blazing CobaltX]

@Kim & Meek-- Wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two to draw any conclusions; just responding out of interest. But off-topic banter is off-topic, so my bad.

I just bought the Shounen Jump (latest one's for May already...), which covers the last of Kushina's flashback to the night Naruto was born. The part of her Mommy-says speech (in 504) where she addresses the topic of girls has been discussed a lot already (since it's been debated about whether it's a hint for NaruSaku or NaruHina, or any pairing at all), but the English translation differs enough to make me curious.

The translation as per Mangastream: "And as for women...well, I am a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... Just try not to pick a weird one... Try to find someone like your mother..."

The SJ English version (from Viz?): "And...the most problematic [topic]...girls... I'm a girl so I don't really know much about this...but at some point you'll notice girls. And that's normal. ...Just be careful...don't fall for the first girl that comes your way... Find someone...like me...!!"

Not a huge difference in the overall message except that the "weird girl" statement is traded for "first girl"--any thoughts? Does it change or alter your previous opinion on it at all?

Of course there is a difference! The first girl Naruto fell for was Sakura, if SJ-Kushina says: "Don't take the first girl you fell in love with", then Sakura is out of question. So anti-NS.

Mangastream-Kushina says: "Don't pick a weirdo, pick someone like your mother", so that is pro-NS. The only girl we've seen who's like Kushina is Sakura. They're pretty much the same.

But now I think about it, SJ is neutral, because she also says: "Find someone like me". Just as I said, Sakura is much more like Kushina than anybody else. Hinata(Or any other girl) is not like Kushina, they're opposites.

[Gravenimage]

So Viz is anti NS I'm not surprise they are only doing in it to lift the NH fandom's hopes up since Kishi basically killed NH with the real Kushina's message and since they are more NH and SS fans in the US Viz has to do something to please the fandom to keep them from watching the anime and keep the ratings up. However changing Kushina's message doesn't prevent from making NS cannon.

[Paptala]

@Kim & Meek-- Wasn't necessarily trying to compare the two to draw any conclusions; just responding out of interest. But off-topic banter is off-topic, so my bad.

I just bought the Shounen Jump (latest one's for May already...), which covers the last of Kushina's flashback to the night Naruto was born. The part of her Mommy-says speech (in 504) where she addresses the topic of girls has been discussed a lot already (since it's been debated about whether it's a hint for NaruSaku or NaruHina, or any pairing at all), but the English translation differs enough to make me curious.

The translation as per Mangastream: "And as for women...well, I am a woman so I don't know what to say, but there are only men and women in this world, and you'll want a girlfriend someday... Just try not to pick a weird one... Try to find someone like your mother..."

The SJ English version (from Viz?): "And...the most problematic [topic]...girls... I'm a girl so I don't really know much about this...but at some point you'll notice girls. And that's normal. ...Just be careful...don't fall for the first girl that comes your way... Find someone...like me...!!"

Not a huge difference in the overall message except that the "weird girl" statement is traded for "first girl"--any thoughts? Does it change or alter your previous opinion on it at all?

Yikes, it is different. I liked the first version better, it sounded like she was anti-Hinata. The secound one is pretty neutral, I guess Sakura is the first girl but he already fell for her so so much for that...

Of course there is a difference! The first girl Naruto fell for was Sakura, if SJ-Kushina says: "Don't take the first girl you fell in love with", then Sakura is out of question. So anti-NS.

Mangastream-Kushina says: "Don't pick a weirdo, pick someone like your mother", so that is pro-NS. The only girl we've seen who's like Kushina is Sakura. They're pretty much the same.

But now I think about it, SJ is neutral, because she also says: "Find someone like me". Just as I said, Sakura is much more like Kushina than anybody else. Hinata(Or any other girl) is not like Kushina, they're opposites.

So Viz is anti NS I'm not surprise they are only doing in it to lift the NH fandom's hopes up since Kishi basically killed NH with the real Kushina's message and since they are more NH and SS fans in the US Viz has to do something to please the fandom to keep them from watching the anime and keep the ratings up. However changing Kushina's message doesn't prevent from making NS cannon.

To all the above statements : sure, SJ Kushina's statement could be taken as anti NS, BUT it could just as easily be taken as anti Hinata/ anti NH again as well.

Kushina didn't say, "Don't fall for the first girl you fell in love with," she said, "Don't fall for the first girl that comes your way,"

Which girl was interested romantically in Naruto first? Which girl was the first girl to approach Naruto romantically? The answer is, obviously, Hinata.

Anyways, semantics aside, it's more like that the meaning of Kushina's statement was not to be rash and just take the first thing that becomes available, simply because it is available. ie don't be rash in getting into romantic relationships.

Really guys, who do people generally think Hinata is a threat to NS, but for example Lee isn't? Both are just one-sided crushes. Again, I apologize for not knowing the whole story about Lee, but why aren't there any crazy SL shippers?

I suppose it's because the alternative suitors for Sakura are :

a) more attractive
b) have more development with her

Edited by Paptala, 12 April 2011 - 12:51 PM.

[ShippudenGirl]

You guys are totally misinterpreting this. It didn't say the "first girl he fell in love with" — it said don't "fall in love with the first girl that comes his way". It's not being anti-NS at all.

From my view-point it sounded like she's saying "don't be a wh*re." That's just me...

[Blazing CobaltX]

.. I can't read, sorry guys...

Edited by Blazing CobaltX, 12 April 2011 - 01:33 PM.

[ShippudenGirl]

.. I can't read, sorry guys...

You can read fine, hon! XD I think you just took it a different way, it's all good! ;p