31720 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

^^

[ThroughWithLove]

You can't use the conclusion of something to support a premise....that makes no sense. I know I said I was done debating, and I really am, but I just wanted to point that out. o.0

 

It's pure confirmation bias. In Umbridge's case, she really loves her some NH I guess.

[VanitasDS76491]

There's one more thing that piques my curiosity. NS is a big red herring, right? What's the red herring exactly though? In detective novels, for example, there are almost always otherwise obvious suspects that end up being red herrings used to distract us from the real culprit. At the end of the novel, we always find out the agenda these red herring suspects had all along before they are cleared as suspects. Like maybe they were near the scene of the crime because they were out shopping that night or maybe they framed or something. So for NS, what exactly is the explanation for stuff like what we see in the databook? Sakura doesn't know why she's blushing towards Naruto or what her real feelings for him are, so what was Kishimoto's master plan on why Sakura was behaving the way she was various times? You can't just call something a red herring and then sweep it under the rug. It has to be addressed and explained. Even Scooby Doo gets it.
 

Actually that's a better red herring then NS and it's funny cause it happened every episode. Also that's sad a kids cartoon got this right. Honestly was waiting for someone to use that joke from a pup named scooby doo.

[ThroughWithLove]

*spends 700 posts defending NH and trashing any suggestions of NS development throughout the manga*

 

I do NOT ship NH! 

 

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 13 August 2017 - 07:06 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

You know  there's a reason why I ship certain characters in series... One is development, and two is there has to be that specific moment that really hints at them becoming canon for you to go like it's gonna go that way. 
 
 
 
In Naruto:
 
 
There were two moments: 
 

 
 
That was my big jump start, and then there was this: 
 

 
That made me realize this was going to be canon above all us.. Like I was already shipper for these two especially after The Tenchi Bridge scene, but this scene and ofcourse this sold me: 
 

 
 
 
 
 
Want more examples from other series well then lets look at Bleach: 
 
 
IchiRuki 
 
You know which moment started my road  to shipping them: 
 
 

 

 
 

 

 
 
This right here was my jump start in shipping these two, and what convinced they were gonna end up together: 
 
 

 
 
 
Even though I feel the series should've ended here cause it felt so powerful, Kubo has always supported Ichigo and Rukia throughout color pages, the series itself (excluding the last 20 chapters of the final arc though I'd argue otherwise cause there was a little interaction in the final chapter too), and poems too. 
 
Oh and this too: 
 

 
 
Them feels. ah it takes me back... moving along lol 
 
Yes i know Ichiheme happened, and why was I okay with that? cause  at least it felt somewhat natural even though I felt there should've been more. Sure was it one-side yes. The one thing Ichihime and RenRuki have over NH and SS are moments. It's there, and they kinda make sense. It just needed to be more convincing that's all. 
 
 
 
Next we have Raku x Chitoge: 
 

 
 
This was the moment that both jump started, and mainly convinced me that they were gonna be a couple. 
 
Unlike the last two this one actually did happen and it was beautiful though I will argue that at somepoint the story was trying to beat around the bush cough cough year two lol   Funny enough I was actually a Raku x Onodera shipper at the start of the series mainly due to the fact Raku x Onodera actually did like each other a lot. The issue was them becoming canon would always be interruppted by something. Sure there were small moments here and there were it kinda worked, but ultimately I knew it was gonna be Raku x Chitoge.  Why was I okay with this even though I started off as a Raku x Onodera shipper because there relationship as friends I'd argue best friends are great, and by the end of the manga they still talk with one another just like with Ichigo and Rukia. it's not like they are completely ignoring one another like another series that we all know of. 
 
 
 
Then you have Yuuji x Haruka from Sukedachi 9: 
 
 
  
 
 
 

 
 
 
I've mentioned it before, but this is the series that was written by Kishi's younger brother Seishi, and he was pushing these two just like Masashi did with NS throughout Naruto, and this moment did tell me they were gonna be canon, and you wanna know what happened with Haruka that never happened with Sakura.  Realization! how? 
 
 

 
 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
The pairing itself is kinda left to your interpretation on if they got together or not, but i believe that they did. It's just a little sad that Seishi wasn't able to do it cause he kinda rushed the ending but still fitting in it's own way. Also no third wheel, no side pairings whatsoever so I commend him for that.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Basically the point I'm trying to get at here with the series I mentioned and their pairings aside from Sukedachi 9 which only had one main pairing,   yes other pairings happened but they had support that made sense.  NH and SS don't have that at all that's why it lacks in the overall sense of the narrative.  Look I get it this is a shounen series, but if you're going to do romance then atleast have it make sense and be believable.

Well Said man with both naruto and Sakura, Ichigo and rukia and those moments. Surprised you don't use fairy tail in that.

[gamma]

 

 

You can defend a pairing and not ship it. More so, I'm defending that the pairing makes sense, even if I'm not a shipper. 

 

 

I agree

 

A couple of my friends who shipped NaruSasu or SasuSaku defended NaruSaku, but they do not actively ship it or have any association/likeness towards it. They pointed out that it just made a lot more sense than NaruHina to them.

 

& btw NH makes sense in your opinion* still !!! Does not mean it's fact, ma'am!!!

[Yyubie]

 

Tom = Kishi

Jerry = SP

 

Imagine if Tom continue to become Jerry's slave for the sake of the money ... thankfully he finally realize he's not happy, unlike Kishi .... if you know what i mean.

[gamma]

 

This is problematic, because if you say something doesn't make sense, you have to explain -why- it doesn't. And a lot of points that explain why can be proven false. 

 

in your opinion* !

 

Perspective is a wonderful thing :^)

[ultranx]

 

in your opinion* !

 

Perspective is a wonderful thing :^)

ikr. and is she seriously playing the
"not a shipper" card here 700 posts later? 0.o I'm not a shipper and I think that's total bull. if she wasn't a shipper she wouldn't still be harassing you guys on this forum, she'd actually have a life like the rest of us instead of stalking this site....

Edited by ultranx, 13 August 2017 - 08:32 PM.

[sushi.]

ikr. and is she seriously playing the
"not a shipper" card here 700 posts later? 0.o I'm not a shipper and I think that's total bull. if she wasn't a shipper she wouldn't still be harassing you guys on this forum, she'd actually have a life like the rest of us instead of stalking this site....

700 posts in just over a month I think she just hit a record XD

[AHK]

ikr. and is she seriously playing the
"not a shipper" card here 700 posts later? 0.o I'm not a shipper and I think that's total bull. if she wasn't a shipper she wouldn't still be harassing you guys on this forum, she'd actually have a life like the rest of us instead of stalking this site....

Is that really a necessary statement? If you don't agree, ignore and move on.

[T XD]

 

Not so.

 

Because if you cannot explain why something doesn't make sense, it begs the question on why you are believing it. And if it is just because you dislike it, then does it have anything to do about sense?

 

I've yet to see any argument on why NH doesn't make sense that frankly, isn't easily refuted. 

 

Frankly, NH making sense is fact, because I can back it up by evidence. NH not making sense is not fact, because it's not backed up by irrefutable evidence. 

 

Now, this isn't saying you have to like it, I don't ship it, but sorry, it makes sense. 

Then what in the world were we debating and discussing with you by ? How to make Shish Kebab with some Rizotto ?

 

We refuted many times your arguments and claims by evidences and there was nothing refutable for you, cause most of the times, your projection on the manga of what's right and wrong was in the way which ends going in circles with the debates.

[T XD]

 

Uh, my arguments and claims weren't refuted? I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

No one has factually established that it doesn't make sense, -still-. 

I just said to you why in my previous post. What you said now is another evidence of your own projection.

[Catra]

gosh Hiei is such a badass character more so than sasuke could ever hope to be.

[The Doctor forever]

gosh Hiei is such a badass character more so than sasuke could ever hope to be.

Cool who are your top 5 bad ass then man?

[VanitasDS76491]

Cool who are your top 5 bad ass then man?

My are.
1. Levi from attack on titan
2. Hiei
3. Piccolo
4. Alucard
5. Ichigo kurosaki
That just off the top of my head

gosh Hiei is such a badass character more so than sasuke could ever hope to be.

Hell Ya hiei is awesome and the bestart of yu yu hausuko.

[BlackBird19]

Personally I think the divide between @Analyzer and the rest of us is very simple. We are a forum made up fans that based all the importance of the story on the original source material, the Naruto manga and nothing else because that was all we had. 

 

The fact that NH and the overall ending is more thoroughly explained after the completion of the original manga, not during it's actual run, is why we will forever be in disagreement. The Naruto manga is supposed to be a stand alone piece. However, that's not the case because of the movies, novels and sequel mangas that were made to better explain the end. Something that good writing does not and has not ever needed. 

[gamma]

ikr. and is she seriously playing the
"not a shipper" card here 700 posts later? 0.o I'm not a shipper and I think that's total bull. if she wasn't a shipper she wouldn't still be harassing you guys on this forum, she'd actually have a life like the rest of us instead of stalking this site....

 

If she says she ships NS, I believe her. And she has a right like any of us to be on here if she wants to.

 

I don't care what people like to ship tbh. Like whatever you want: NS, SS, NH. Anything that makes yourself happy as long as it's not hurting others.

 

Just, do not be so rude about it is all I ask. 

 

 

 

Because if you cannot explain why something doesn't make sense, it begs the question on why you are believing it. And if it is just because you dislike it, then does it have anything to do about sense?

 

 

What are you talking about? I never said I disliked anything to you in this conversation.

 

I'll believe in what I want to believe in, thank you. As can you. But you don't see me policing and regulating people's own stances to match my own. And at the end of the day, no one could be the officiating judge of what we think.

 

Your arguments has not changed any of my perspective towards this manga in the slightest bit, as I'm sure none of our arguments has changed yours.

 

 

 

 

I've yet to see any argument on why NH doesn't make sense that frankly, isn't easily refuted.

 

Because it is you who refuses to even give a chance of day to consider someone else's argument, because you've, for whatever reason, decided it's not worthy enough to even think about.

 

I've been watching, and it's almost obnoxious the way you've continuously dismiss other's arguments/opinions, just because we are not as blessed to have the same type of education that you've received.

 

I'm just gonna say this: you cannot be the judge of every single argument on here. Until you prove to me that you are Masashi Kishimoto, you cannot decide whether my or anyone else's argument/opinion is right or wrong. 

 

Your personal interpretations of a piece of evidence is not always gonna be fact just cause you decide it is. People are going to have different perspectives and interpretations on the same piece of evidence. Learn to respect that.

 

 

 

Frankly, NH making sense is fact, because I can back it up by evidence. NH not making sense is not fact, because it's not backed up by irrefutable evidence. Now, this isn't saying you have to like it, I don't ship it, but sorry, it makes sense. 

 

I am not in any way denying that NH & SS and the rest of the ships that were shown in ch. 700 are canon. I don't like NH and other pairings shown in that chapter, but I'm not going to deny the fact they got together at the end. 

 

Of course you have countless pieces of evidence to support NH. The day The Last and ch. 700 was released and beyond that is where the massive operation of explaining "why it should be" truly began. Their still not done shoving NH down our throats in Boruto as well, so of course.

 

If it makes sense to you, fantastic. It does not make sense to me, not 100% at least, and I'm not gonna waste my time trying to understand the type of mediocre brainstorming that went into conceiving these pairings. So have fun with that mess.

Edited by lux, 14 August 2017 - 07:25 AM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

So according to Analyzer:

Her opinions = FACTS
Our opinions = opinions biased by the pairings

 

Huh, weird, especially since I already said I never  cared who Naruto ended with.    

[gamma]

The fact that NH and the overall ending is more thoroughly explained after the completion of the original manga, not during it's actual run, is why we will forever be in disagreement. The Naruto manga is supposed to be a stand alone piece. However, that's not the case because of the movies, novels and sequel mangas that were made to better explain the end. Something that good writing does not and has not ever needed. 

 

Exactly.