31593 replies to this topic

[Kagomaru]

 

 

 

 

*sighs* This beautiful illustration will continue to simultaneously warm and torment me for the rest of my NaruSaku-loving days.

 

Goddamn Kishimoto-teme.

Edited by Kagomaru, 12 August 2017 - 10:05 PM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

I really can't believe people still argue with Analyzer, everytime I read one of her posts and "solid arguments" it just felt so wrong, sorry but not for me I give up, that's it.

[gamma]

 

This notion as if the Data Books cannot tease something is your error.

 

Amazing. So then it's all on me?

 

I'm so sorry I take facts to heart. My mistake, won't happen again. Who needs facts anyways, right? Certainly not Kishimoto.

[Nostradamus]

 

LOL WHAT>>>

 

FAM. DO U KNOW WHAT DATA MEANS???  LEMME HELP A SISTER OUT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THEY MUST HAVE BEEN COMPLETE STRATEGIC kitten IF THEY WENT SO FAR BACK TO BAIT US LIKE THAT. I'M JUST SAYING.

You have to excuse our newest member. You see facts to her are like magical pixies, just imaginations, nothing more.

[Qia]

https://www.goodread...11085135-naruto

 

Is this the same data book? Because if it is, not only does it state in the synopsis that it covers things that have happened up to a certain point in the manga, it even says Kishi contributed to it with illustrations and everything. So...how is it not fact? (assuming that this is it). 

 

As for the confession debate, I think I will also just drop it at this point and just agree to disagree (or else I'm gonna be here all night arguing about the difference between teasing and facts and such). 

Edited by Qia, 12 August 2017 - 10:51 PM.

[lupina]

 

For both of these, the Fake Confession resolves it. I feel like the error for a lot of Naruto analysis is looking for too direct of an answer, I.E., summary, what you might understand as telling over showing.

 

No.

 

[ThroughWithLove]

No, there's no speculation, as the ending is really the gold medal here of why it is teasing. 
 
It's still notable that as far as I understand, Kishi did not have involvement in the Data Books, which may explain above teasing. If I'm wrong, I'll drop it, it's a minor point anyway, but I've not seen any information point to that. 

Non sequitur. The fact that the manga ended with NH does not lead us to the conclusion the databooks were created with the intention of teasing. The author could have just as easily intended one thing at one point only to change his mind after the Data Books were written. In other words, you're speculating. Please provide actual evidence that these data books were created with the intent to tease.

And I'm not aware of any information that confirms that Kishimoto had no involvement with data books.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 12 August 2017 - 10:53 PM.

[Qia]

 

No.

 

Funny...I was just about to mention this. But remember my friend, apparently, all of this was a lie done by Kishi to bait us into believing something about his main character that we were told about from the very start. 

 

Which brings me to this next question: Was everything about NS a red herring or was it just Kushina's last words? Or the fact that they just happened to be given similar personalities? 

Edited by Qia, 12 August 2017 - 10:54 PM.

[gamma]

You have to excuse our newest member. You see facts to her are like magical pixies, just imaginations, nothing more.

 

DAMN.

 

I'll take facts as a potential bait from now on, no worries. I'll learn to rewrite my sins eventually.

[ThroughWithLove]

Funny...I was just about to mention this. But remember my friend, apparently, all of this was a lie done by Kishi to bait us into believing something about his main character that we were told about from the very start. 
 
Which brings me to this next question: Was everything about NS a red herring or was it just Kushina's last words? Or the fact that they just happened to be given similar personalities?

The only thing Kishi has ever directly called a red herring was the Kushina stuff. Not sure where Umbridge is getting this notion and desire that any and everything that suggests NS is a red herring.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 12 August 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[T XD]

https://www.goodread...11085135-naruto

 

Is this the same data book? Because if it is, not only does it state in the synopsis that it covers things that have happened up to a certain point in the manga, it even says Kishi contributed to it with illustrations and everything. So...how is it not fact? (assuming that this is it). 

 

As for the confession debate, I think I will also just drop it at this point and just agree to disagree (or else I'm gonna be here all night arguing about the difference between teasing and facts and such). 

There are several Databooks and this link is one of the Databooks.

 

It's mentioned in all Databooks that they're done by Masashi Kishimoto. Databooks are facts based on manga.

Edited by T XD, 12 August 2017 - 11:21 PM.

[Yyubie]

Damn f-ing umbridge ...

The data book is just fan fiction !??

I never see NS fans DESTROY every NS evidence , development , parallel , and hints THIS hard , the weirdest thing i have ever seen in this forum

[lupina]

Funny...I was just about to mention this. But remember my friend, apparently, all of this was a lie done by Kishi to bait us into believing something about his main character that we were told about from the very start. 

 

Which brings me to this next question: Was everything about NS a red herring or was it just Kushina's last words? Or the fact that they just happened to be given similar personalities? 

 

Since Naruto was never shown to have romantic feelings for anyone but Sakura (chapter 1-699) I don't see from what this supposed "Red Herring" is to distract us. (does that make sense?)

 

I still belive that it was a cheap "cop out" to justify some last minute changes.

[Qia]

 

Since Naruto was never shown to have romantic feelings for anyone but Sakura (chapter 1-699) I don't see from what this supposed "Red Herring" is to distract us. (does that make sense?)

 

I still belive that it was a cheap "cop out" to justify some last minute changes.

Naa you make sense. I just wanted to make sure. So the red herring was that he was bound to end up with Sakura according to Kushina, which wasn't necessarily the case. Still, I've seen the whole red herring argument used in other ways that I never really understood, since NS was not only introduced first but also received more focus.  Not exactly a good diversion

[AHK]

No, he didn't do it with the intention to kill thousands of people. He didn't kill thousands of people. As the Ten Tails was wielded days later, and that he stood against the Ten Tails, pointing blame on him for it is stretching it. 
 
No, he wasn't robbing people of their free will? They could sitll act and choose and had free will. This is a misunderstanding of what free will is. Sure, he was setting up a system for the world to follow, but he was not enslaving the world. 
 
No, you -cannot- say that is bad writing. 
t
Bad writing would be saying: The imagery that Kishimoto was too hammering of the point. Too much summary. The exposition isn't flowing well. The plot is jumbled.
 
Here, it's rather clear. This is -only- a detail you dislike, I.E., Sasuke was not punished enough for you. It has -nothing- to do with awful writing. 
 
There is a difference between objectivity in assessing writing quality, and subjectivity, in assessing whether you like what you are reading. This is subjectivity. It is fine. As long as you understand that it has zero to do with writing technique and craft.
 

​And no, for Naruto and Sakura you didn't, and still haven't listed -any- details. You gave a statement ,but did not give it any foundation. I.E., you said 
 
"
In regards to Naruto and Sakura, the ending, from 699 onward (693 in Sakura's case) reneged on everything their characters were and could have been. Everything that appeared in the ending was abysmal and pathetic in regards to both of them. They were a betrayal of what they had used to be."
 
But how are they a betrayal? You make a statement but do not say why or how this is. You do not say what was abysmal and pathetic in regards to both of them. You statements lack points of the manga to reference to. In other words, you were not specific at all, and laid out a poor argument.

Yes, he did. he declared his intentions to destroy the leaf, and kill anyone in his way, and that was a stance that he held and maintained throughout the duration of the story. Obito and the Akatsuki were merely a means to an end with him. He did kill thousands, and he intended to kill thousands. That is a fact. It doesn't matter if the Juubi was resurrected days later, Sasuke played a vital role in its resurrection. Sasuke deciding after the fact to fight it means nothing, given that it was him that helped facilitate the circumstances of its revival. Sasuke is in a large way to blame.

Yes, it is robbing them of their free will. When your only choices are obey or die, you have no free will. That by its very definition is slavery. Sasuke planned to enslave everyone. This is also an undeniable fact, not matter how you try and wriggle about and defend Sasuke.

You have literally no concept what bad writing is. Bad writing is not limited to bad grammer, writing structure, etc. When you try and justify the crimes of a group of people with the lazy ass excuse of "curse of hatred" in order to elicit a faux sense of forgiveness, and then throw away all accountability for people who have committed vicious crimes simply out of friendship and no real punishment following their heinous involvement in a war that killed tens of thousands and when said person planned on butchering thousands more, that is bad writing. It isn't just a detail I don't like. The idea that you try and brush it off as a matter of objectivity and subjectivity is absolutely laughable.

Again, with regards to Naruto and Sakura, I was absolutely specific enough. "Everything that appeared in the ending was abysmal and pathetic in regards to both of them. They were a betrayal of what they had used to be."

We might as well stop. If the crux of your arguments are based on Sasuke not intending to kill anyone (despite him saying multiple times that he did), that he is excused from his crimes because the Juubi wasn't resurrected until days after (despite the fact that he played a vital role in resurrecting it), and objectivity vs subjectivity, then your argument was weak to begin with. At this point, the only reason you're defending the ending is to defend the ending, not argue something with any actual merit.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Name top 3 traits that you believe that send off bad vibe from Sakura from the get-go.

[trang95]

I really can't believe people still argue with Analyzer, everytime I read one of her posts and "solid arguments" it just felt so wrong, sorry but not for me I give up, that's it.

At least she gives everyone something to talk about, lol.

Edited by trang95, 13 August 2017 - 01:49 AM.

[lupina]

 

This is a Red Herring scene.

 

For what reason do you think Naruto tries to introduce Sakura as his girlfriend to his father other than his unwavering desire to be with her, and from what exactly is this scene trying to distract us?

 

 

Not to mention Naruto admits he's joking scenes later.

 

No.

He admits that he hasn't reached his goal yet - what is true, since He and Sakura are not an Item at that time.

[Yyubie]

^^

[Qia]

Sigh...so basically every moment between Naruto and Sakura is a red herring, now? Alright cool. Why did these two characters even become friends in the first place if their relationship was destined to become a joke/ a trick?   All the lovely moments that they shared just a diversion from ???? I don't even know what they're a diversion from. From the fakeness of it all? From the fact that they were never that close, to begin with? That's just a bunch of bs. Why is Kishi making me hate two characters that I grew to love because of the moments that they shared that were apparently all lies? That's just...cruel.