4869 replies to this topic

[Jenskott]

Oh, and how DARE they compare Sakura to Bella!

If I can quote Homer Simpson: "Urge to killing rising..."

And I find even more scurrilous they are calling her a yandere now. It is further proof of they have utterly no understanding not only of how manga tropes work but also of the actual manga they are reading.

Sakura isn't Shampoo ("Akane obstacle. And obstacles I kill!"). She isn't planning killing Sasuke because he is distracting her true love's attention from her. She is planning killing Sasuke in order to protect Naruto and save whatever decency is left on Sasuke.

Sasuke is a menace to Naruto and to everyone. He is a wandering, breathing weapon, with fewer compulsions morals and allegation to no one who can't live without something or someone to unleash his wrath upon. He FEEDS on revenge and dwells in a world of darkness (his words) and he refuses leaving it because there's nothing outside for him (again, his words. Why SasuSaku fans thought he would return Konoha and Sakura after slaying Itachi is beyond me).

Naruto has tried reaching him out and rescuing him from that void several times. And he has got badly hurt each time. Physically and emotionally. Do you remember what happened the last time? One shadow clone of his ran into Sasuke... and Sasuke rammed his Chidori through his body (again). And his face was absolutely cold and expressionless while he pulverized the Kage Bunshin (I was genuinely frightened when I saw that scene. It was SO eerie).

And in the current arc, Naruto has got hurt AND humilliated because Sasuke.

And in spite of Naruto's tries, Sasuke has gotten worse.

What is thinking Sakura? She has made one choice. She loves Naruto, and she has chosen him. She is trying protecting him from harm and hurt, from Akatsuki and Sasuke. But he has refused and stated he would go on trying saving Sasuke, not matter what. Thus, she thinks if she must protect Naruto and her village and if she has ever truly loved Sasuke, she must kill him. Because neither Sasuke nor Naruto have let her more choices.

[jinsterr]

I think it's also double-standard how their arguments are like "YES SASUSAKU IS CANON! IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED!" and I believe it was Sai who had said Sakura loves Sasuke... when many chapters ago they didn't believe it was possible for Sai and Yamato to understand or even know what Sakura is feeling because they haven't been in Team 7 long enough

Now suddenly, because of Sai and Naruto's convo... Sai's words are solid? :\

Not to mention, no where in chapter 474 did it say that Sakua was IN love with Sasuke. Just that she LOVES him. (I am basing this on the onemanga scans). Of course she loves Sasuke--he was her friend and her team-mate first of all and she had a huge crush on him. Of course she'd still care about him. Sasuke isn't the same person she knew from the old days--Sakura knows and understands this, and because she cares about him so much she knows she cannot allow him to continue as he is. Sometimes the right thing isn't always the easiest.

And again, I did mention in another thread that I believe Sakura's confession was genuine. Why would she risk hurting Naruto again by lying to him about her feelings? When hurting him is the last thing she wanted to do? She said so herself, "I don't want to make anymore mistakes." If she didn't truly love Naruto and told him false feelings, that would have been a mistake on her part--that lie would undoubtedly hurt him. And I don't believe Sakura is someone who goes back on her word once she's put her mind to it. She did omit things about Sasuke from him (that's not lying. Lying is when you give false details. Sakura isn't doing that. She's just not TELLING him things), but that was all for the sake of not hurting him. Because she knew telling him they were planning to kill Sasuke would hurt him. Again, she's protecting HIS feelings here; she's keeping HIS feelings in mind. People argue that she only confessed to release Naruto from the burdens of the promise. Yes, that is true, but why would she confess if she had nothing but feelings of friendship for him when that would just cause Naruto more emotional burdens?

I remember in chapter 470 I believe, she said, "No one knows what I'm thinking but ME." While Naruto does know her best and Sai has become quite perceptive when it comes to feelings, we really DON'T know what Sakura is really thinking because the conversation between Naruto and Sai have all been in Naruto's point of view. Naruto's thoughts still revolve around Team 7 and the Sakura he knew was in love with Sasuke--not the Sakura that she is now. While I do think Sakura loves Sasuke, I really do, I also think her love for Naruto is stronger.

Lastly, I believe everyone has mentioned this already but I'll reiterate :3... everything Sakura has done was FOR Naruto. She gave up on Sasuke--someone she still evidently cares deeply for--FOR Naruto. To protect him and to prevent war from Konoha. She is even willing to shoulder his hate.

If NaruSaku wasn't meant to happen then why would Kishimoto waste so much panel space/time putting it in there? It doesn't make any sense. It's like building a beautiful house but not bothering to live inside it. If NaruHina and SasuSaku were the intended ship, Kishimoto would have made that consistent with the story. NaruHina had many chances to be developed, but Kishimoto didn't do such thing. If Hinata was meant to be Naruto's love interest, he would have provided more opportunities for them to interact, but instead he always puts Hinata aside and have her absent for many chapters at a time.

The same thing with SasuSaku. Not once, while I was reading this manga, did I see any Sasuke --> Sakura. It was all Sakura --> Sasuke. And they haven't seen each other in over 300 chapters. I don't believe Kishi is going to have Sasuke develop feelings for Sakura now. Sasuke isn't a character who wants love anyway. And can you imagine what it'd be like if Sasuke DOES end up with Sakura? I don't think that relationship would be a good one, let alone a healthy one. There'd be too much hurt, too much wounds and things that can never be forgotten.

So yeah. That's why I don't think NaruSaku is dead (what a ridiculous idea) nor do I agree with SasuSaku being "canon" now. Canon is when BOTH parties reciprocate each other's feelings. So far, Sakura's feelings are still one-sided. Sasuke does not love Sakura.

Anyways, sorry this was so long. That's my two cents here

[TwilightLink20xx]

Feh. If you think that's denial, you should see Viz Forums. Some (but not all) fans refuse to listen to reason.

It's only by the grace of god that TwilightLink20xx and MelisaArtemis are helping out with debating. The three of us alone, along with others like phearts and bacon_army17 are like, the only ones debating for NaruSaku.

I'd bring over some of the NH/SS fans' arguments, but I wouldn't want to waste ya'lls time with them

Trust me on this one, the arguments are pretty simplistic in nature. The one thing I do have to say about the Viz forums is that the Make Out Paradise section over there actually has managed to have a lot of vocal NaruSakus outside of those from elsewhere. Now, I do have a simple explanation for why the people over at the Viz forums react this way, though Froot: the average age is around 14.7 or so. That is to be expected from an official forum for something aimed at young adults, but it's because of the lower age demographic that you see stubbornness for little reason and the lack of strong explanations and retorts. The environment there is vastly different from NarutoForum and even YouTube. Honestly, it feels far less hostile to me, but that may be because I don't spend too too much time there.

[Strangelove]

Feh. If you think that's denial, you should see Viz Forums. Some (but not all) fans refuse to listen to reason.

It's only by the grace of god that TwilightLink20xx and MelisaArtemis are helping out with debating. The three of us alone, along with others like phearts and bacon_army17 are like, the only ones debating for NaruSaku.

I'd bring over some of the NH/SS fans' arguments, but I wouldn't want to waste ya'lls time with them

Well the part that i find it funny, is that they consider NS arguments unfounded...dismissing it as nonsense...when they can't hardly put an argument to support their ideas...they went from actually defending NH, to bashing NS...is the fact that NH and the SS is moving towards a crack pairing...rather than actual canon...lol but hey xD...if they want to be in denial is their own choice...

But you know what im really afraid off...that if NS becomes cannon, they will still try to bash it, and make fanfictions and fanart then declaring it cannon lol...that's when you have to put a foot down and call it silly...

Edited by Strangelove, 05 December 2009 - 07:37 PM.

[Froot]

Trust me on this one, the arguments are pretty simplistic in nature. The one thing I do have to say about the Viz forums is that the Make Out Paradise section over there actually has managed to have a lot of vocal NaruSakus outside of those from elsewhere. Now, I do have a simple explanation for why the people over at the Viz forums react this way, though Froot: the average age is around 14.7 or so. That is to be expected from an official forum for something aimed at young adults, but it's because of the lower age demographic that you see stubbornness for little reason and the lack of strong explanations and retorts. The environment there is vastly different from NarutoForum and even YouTube. Honestly, it feels far less hostile to me, but that may be because I don't spend too too much time there.

I suppose you're right. I should be a little more patient, considering I used to be one of them. And by ''one of them,'' I mean someone who used to bash and used BS arguments to back myself up. Heh, I was bad.

I've actually noticed, like you said, that there's been a lot more NaruSaku support over at VF. I quite like to think that I'm part of the reason why, conceited but I'm pretty sure it was the manga.

@ strangelove

If (or when ) NaruSaku becomes canon, you can bet that the bashing level will increase, dramatically. I'm talking over 9000.

The internet will be infested with intense NaruSaku hate. You thought it was bad when another unpopular shoujo pairing (an example escapes me) became canon? Try one of, if not the most popular current shonen manga canonizing a hated pairing while simultaneously destroying three, not one, not two, but three incredibly popular pairings. Who knows? People may come to H & E en masse just to flame. I'm hoping not, since I consider this place my internet sanctuary, but you know how it is...

@ jinsterr

So now Sai understands Sakura's feelings. This chapter. A few chapters ago, though, he didn't know anything

[jinsterr]

So now Sai understands Sakura's feelings. This chapter. A few chapters ago, though, he didn't know anything

I know. I am facepalming and laughing at how ridiculous these double-standards are

[catsi563]

if you want a prime example just take Avatar. When Kataang was proven canon people exploded. I can still recall to this day a Zutarans tearful angst filled rant on youtube.

she layed out multiple ridiculous arguments from the usual ((siblings)) to the obscure ((fire and water opposites atteact)) to the patently ridiculous ((when Zuko threeatened her with her necklace it was ZOMG tru wub))

and all over a pairing that the developers confirmed was canon from Day 1

[jinsterr]

if you want a prime example just take Avatar. When Kataang was proven canon people exploded. I can still recall to this day a Zutarans tearful angst filled rant on youtube.

she layed out multiple ridiculous arguments from the usual ((siblings)) to the obscure ((fire and water opposites atteact)) to the patently ridiculous ((when Zuko threeatened her with her necklace it was ZOMG tru wub))

and all over a pairing that the developers confirmed was canon from Day 1

Oh man. The Zutara fandom was kinda out there, I agree >.>

The first time I ever watched the series, all I could see was Kataang. It was that obvious. Even as the series started heading to its last season, I didn't think Zutara was even remotely possible. Mike and Bryan had never intended for that ship, just like how I believe Kishimoto doesn't intend for either NaruHina or SasuSaku. If Mike and Bryan had wanted Zutara to happen, they would have put more interaction/evidence in rather than develop Kataang like they've been doing since season 1.

The Zutara fans were kinda grasping at straws there--reading too much into things that weren't there, and in a children's show of all places. And even when Kataang became canon, people were still unable to accept it :\ Fandom fails like that sometimes, it's sad.

[MelisaArtemis]

Err... can we go back to topic please?

[catsi563]

well the irony is that Bryan and Mike did confirm in an interview that they originaly had designed Zuko to be Kataras final love interest but changed there minds before the series aired and went with Aang. They then developed the series and its romance accordingly.

they even trolled the fandoma little with several jokes including the episode the Ember Island players where they parodied the fandom and the pairings.

It should have been pretty obvious when Katara threatened to and I quote "End him right then and there." that the relationship and any chance of it evolving was kaput.

Another intereting Parralel ive noted is this.

People know by now that Im a solid SasuKarin shipper. And that i feel before the end that we NaruSaku fans are gonna be toasting Karin long after the series is done.

One thing of interest ive noted is the paralel between the way Karin is treated and the way Mai is treated. Both are uniersally despised and dismissed out of hand inspite of very clear evidence to support them being legitimate characters and love interests for their respective male characters.

The interesting paralel gets mor einteresting when we take into account Mais sacrafice at the end of the boiling rock episode and Sakuras upcoming sacrafice agaisnt Sasuke.

I hypothesize Karin needing to make a similar decision towards Sasuke.

Edited by catsi563, 06 December 2009 - 12:26 AM.

[jinsterr]

well the irony is that Bryan and Mike did confirm in an interview that they originaly had designed Zuko to be Kataras final love interest but changed there minds before the series aired and went with Aang. They then developed the series and its romance accordingly.

they even trolled the fandoma little with several jokes including the episode the Ember Island players where they parodied the fandom and the pairings.

It should have been pretty obvious when Katara threatened to and I quote "End him right then and there." that the relationship and any chance of it evolving was kaput.

Another intereting Parralel ive noted is this.

People know by now that Im a solid SasuKarin shipper. And that i feel before the end that we NaruSaku fans are gonna be toasting Karin long after the series is done.

One thing of interest ive noted is the paralel between the way Karin is treated and the way Mai is treated. Both are uniersally despised and dismissed out of hand inspite of very clear evidence to support them being legitimate characters and love interests for their respective male characters.

The interesting paralel gets mor einteresting when we take into account Mais sacrafice at the end of the boiling rock episode and Sakuras upcoming sacrafice agaisnt Sasuke.

I hypothesize Karin needing to make a similar decision towards Sasuke.

Wow, that is ironic. Haha I never knew that xD

But yeah, now that you mention it I do see some parallels between what happened in Avatar and what's happening in Naruto.

But like MelisaArtemis said, I think we're getting off topic here haha

[ciardha]

I think it's also double-standard how their arguments are like "YES SASUSAKU IS CANON! IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED!" and I believe it was Sai who had said Sakura loves Sasuke... when many chapters ago they didn't believe it was possible for Sai and Yamato to understand or even know what Sakura is feeling because they haven't been in Team 7 long enough

Now suddenly, because of Sai and Naruto's convo... Sai's words are solid? :\

And not to mention they are ignoring Sai's words that Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and chosen Naruto and that the only thing she was think of was of Naruto when she made her confession and Sai further says- and I think you know that. That's also the lone time when Naruto thinks of Sakura that he thinks of her in present tense rather than the Sasuke fangirl that apparently is how he still saw her- that image has been shattered now. He has to see as she is now. Then you have Gaara basically reenforcing Sakura's decision about Sasuke and telling Naruto as someone who wishes to become Hokage and as Sasuke's friend he has to come to the same conclusion Sakura did.

Edited by ciardha, 06 December 2009 - 01:49 AM.

[jinsterr]

And not to mention they are ignoring Sai's words that Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and chosen Naruto and that the only thing she was think of was of Naruto when she made her confession and Sai further says- and I think you know that. That's also the lone time when Naruto thinks of Sakura that he thinks of her in present tense rather than the Sasuke fangirl that apparently is how he still saw her- that image has been shattered now. He has to see as she is now. Then you have Gaara basically reenforcing Sakura's decision about Sasuke and telling Naruto as someone who wishes to become Hokage and as Sasuke's friend he has to come to the same conclusion Sakura did.

Some SasuSaku shippers are even under the influence that Sakura is going after Sasuke to rekindle their love or something. When duh, she's going after Sasuke to kill him lulz. While she is going to kill Sasuke to stop himself from sinking further into darkness because she does still care about him, I believe she's doing it more for the fact that she wants to save and protect Naruto. Like everyone's been saying, she has Naruto in mind this whole time.

Naruto is the only one still living in the past. Sakura's decision and Gaara's talk are what make Naruto finally wake up from that illusion he's been keeping himself under. Sakura has made her decision. Everyone has made their decision practically. All except Naruto. Everyone is practically telling him he needs to grow up and see things for what they are--not for what they used to be. And yeah... Naruto still has his head wrapped around Sakura's image in the past (as a Sasuke fangirl) as oppose to the person she's become in the present.

Again, this chapter was all about Naruto opening his eyes and his decision.

[NaruSaku93]

basically after reading everyone's comments, we all agree that naruto has to grow up and get out of the past and into the present. but do u guys think that naruto will let go that easily and join everyone in killing sasuke?

we all know that he's come to the realization that team 7 will probably never be complete again and that sasuke has chosen the path of darkness. we know he's acknowledged that much, but will he actually join everyone or will he continue to be stubborn and make sasuke come back?

in my opinion, i think it will take him some time for him to take in all the information sai has given him and then maybe he will make the decision that he should be the one to kill sasuke

[Miss Soupy]

I think Naruto will eventually talk no jutsu everyone again and eventually redeem Sasuke. But, I think Sasuke will die in the end, because I can't see where his place would be after all he has done. Team 7 won't ever be back together, I think, but Sasuke will die in order to save Naruto or Sakura...or both..

ULTIMATE REDEMPTION NO JUTSU

[James S Cassidy]

It could be so that Sasuke is always on the run and ends up with Karin.

[Jenskott]

But you know what im really afraid off...that if NS becomes cannon, they will still try to bash it, and make fanfictions and fanart then declaring it cannon lol...that's when you have to put a foot down and call it silly...

If NS becomes canon, they will do it. You can be most certain of it.

So now Sai understands Sakura's feelings. This chapter. A few chapters ago, though, he didn't know anything

Indeed. How hilarious.

Hypocresy runs rampant in the fandom. Do you want another example?:

Kurenai mutters: "Hinata..."

NH Fans: "Oh, my God, she must be pondering Hinata loves Naruto! She KNOWS!"

Yamato states: "Sakura, what matters to Naruto is how strongly you feel about him. I can tell it only seeing your face. In reality, you..."

Anti-NS fans: "Yamato wasn't going to tell Sakura loves Naruto whatsoever. He was going to talk about Sakura's confidence issues, and I can afirm it with utter certainness in spite of I'm not the author putting words in his characters' mouths. Besides, even if he was going to tell Sakura loves Naruto, what he knows anyway."

Agreed, Kurenai was Hinata's sensei, but yet... Geez!

if you want a prime example just take Avatar. When Kataang was proven canon people exploded. I can still recall to this day a Zutarans tearful angst filled rant on youtube.

she layed out multiple ridiculous arguments from the usual ((siblings)) to the obscure ((fire and water opposites atteact)) to the patently ridiculous ((when Zuko threeatened her with her necklace it was ZOMG tru wub))

and all over a pairing that the developers confirmed was canon from Day 1

I agree. I have ran into frustrated Zutarans and... Sheesh! A lot of them come across like spoiled brats who can't deal with the life fact of you don't always get what you want. They remind me so closely of certain SasuSaku shippers it's scary.

Other than those arguments I have heard: "It's only a chilhood crush, they won't stay together", "Character X supports Zutara and Character X is always right", "I have watched the whole series twice and I can't find out how, where, when or why Katara fell in love with Aang".

The latter is specially ridiculous. God, just take off your shipper glasses and admit Kataangers were right about those scenes they claimed were romance-building moments! If NH becomes canon, that's what I'll have to do after all.

And no, I'm not a Kataanger o a Zutaran.

Edit: I'm not trying being mean or spiteful to Zutara fans. I'm only criticizing the attitude of fanatic shippers. All fandoms have tards, unfortunately. If some Zutara shipper has got offended, I apologize.

It should have been pretty obvious when Katara threatened to and I quote "End him right then and there." that the relationship and any chance of it evolving was kaput.

So many parallels are scary.

One thing of interest ive noted is the paralel between the way Karin is treated and the way Mai is treated. Both are uniersally despised and dismissed out of hand inspite of very clear evidence to support them being legitimate characters and love interests for their respective male characters.

Heh. I have also noticed.

And not to mention they are ignoring Sai's words that Sakura has moved on from Sasuke and chosen Naruto and that the only thing she was think of was of Naruto when she made her confession and Sai further says- and I think you know that. That's also the lone time when Naruto thinks of Sakura that he thinks of her in present tense rather than the Sasuke fangirl that apparently is how he still saw her- that image has been shattered now. He has to see as she is now. Then you have Gaara basically reenforcing Sakura's decision about Sasuke and telling Naruto as someone who wishes to become Hokage and as Sasuke's friend he has to come to the same conclusion Sakura did.

That, too.

All they are focusing on is Sai stating Sakura likes Sasuke. And they completely disregard his words about Sakura giving up on Sasuke, choosing Naruto over Sasuke and deciding killing Sasuke.

Of course, they have been doing that for the whole manga. During Team 7 reunion, they focused on Sakura staring at Sasuke, shocked, and Sasuke uttering her name. They completely disregarded Sasuke completely ignored Sakura afterwards, she tried punching him, he attempted stabbing her, he decided destroying all of them with Kirin only to be stopped by Orochimaru -Orochimaru!- and Sakura later reassured Naruto they would go through this together (something Naruto has apparently forgotten, too).

Some SasuSaku shippers are even under the influence that Sakura is going after Sasuke to rekindle their love or something.

That's so hilarous! How many bad romance novels they have read? And how many times they have read each one?

Naruto is the only one still living in the past.

Exactly. I shake my head at people who accuses Sakura from inmaturity when he is stuck in the Team 7 era, and he refuses moving on. At least Sakura has acknowledged those times will shall never return and they weren't so great to start with (why other fans are so passionate about Team 7 I shall never understand).

Edited by Jenskott, 06 December 2009 - 11:49 AM.

[jinsterr]

Hey guys... I posted my thoughts on ch 474 on the NaruSaku community on LJ, however, some stuff that I wrote I have already posted here, but I do elaborate quite a lot more.

CLICK HERE

It's kinda sad how I had to answer to some very skeptical NaruSaku shippers.

I think even one of them is an SS shipper, but I couldn't really say for sure when both of them were signed "anonymous" >.> If they were SS shippers, I find it unfair that they are also lurking the NS fandom to see what we come up with and then trying to break through our logic by throwing all their reasons as to why they believe it's SS all the way. Isn't it bad enough that they're already all over the internet because of this chapter... now they have to go into our domain too?

Sorry, it kind of irks me. Because I wrote that essay for the purpose of spreading the faith for us NaruSaku supporters, not to start a shipping debate with the SS fandom *sighs* I guess it can't be helped considering it IS the internet

Edited by jinsterr, 06 December 2009 - 12:39 PM.

[Jenskott]

Sorry, it kind of irks me. Because I wrote that essay for the purpose of spreading the faith for us NaruSaku supporters, not to start a shipping debate with the SS fandom *sighs* I guess it can't be helped considering it IS the internet

I'm sorry about that.

Unfortunately you should have expected it. There is many people doesn't understand their opinion not always is required or appreciated. I find that everywhere: NS fanfics, fanart, AMVs... I always find comments from opposing shippers somehow feel compelled to state NS sucks. Or explain the pairing they support is better. Or suggest you should stop making fanworks of what you want and making them of what they want instead. Or ranting against NS. Or bashing NS or Sakura. Or flaming you. Or...

What is stupid. When I find an anti-NS rant or a NH fanfic or a SS fanart I don't peruse it. I leave.

My advice is ignoring them or explaining politely and kindly even if their opinion is respected, it is not needed or required and asking them leaving you alone. And if they don't concede your request or they are obnoxious and rude, reasing their comments and blocking them out if you can.

And you can always writing one comment warning you don't want shipping wars in your LJ webpage. That place isn't a debate forum, it's your private site where you occasionally wish talking with friends and like-minded individuals.

[jinsterr]

I'm sorry about that.

Unfortunately you should have expected it. There is many people doesn't understand their opinion not always is required or appreciated. I find that everywhere: NS fanfics, fanart, AMVs... I always find comments from opposing shippers somehow feel compelled to state NS sucks. Or explain the pairing they support is better. Or suggest you should stop making fanworks of what you want and making them of what they want instead. Or ranting against NS. Or bashing NS or Sakura. Or flaming you. Or...

What is stupid. When I find an anti-NS rant or a NH fanfic or a SS fanart I don't peruse it. I leave.

My advice is ignoring them or explaining politely and kindly even if their opinion is respected, it is not needed or required and asking them leaving you alone. And if they don't concede your request or they are obnoxious and rude, reasing their comments and blocking them out if you can.

And you can always writing one comment warning you don't want shipping wars in your LJ webpage. That place isn't a debate forum, it's your private site where you occasionally wish talking with friends and like-minded individuals.

Yeah that's the sad thing about the internet. fail-tards live in it too :\

But no, when I wrote that essay, I did kinda expected SS/NH shippers to lurk and read it--and probably comment on it too. The "anonymous" ones that commented, again I have no certain claim on whether or not they are SS-shippers, but they do sorta give that air. Or maybe they are just NS-shippers who are a touch skeptic because of this chapter now.

Either way, I just wished that they stick to their side of the fandom spectrum instead of trying to invade ours too :\ But again, I know there are fail-tards all over the internet so that's no go lulz.

Don't worry, I answered their comments accordingly and respectfully, although I am weary that after that I'll have more on my case. And have already put a comment in my essay about no ship-wars or no bashing, so hopefully I don't have to resort to blocking and deleting comments ):

EDIT: Wow page 125 already? xD

Edited by jinsterr, 06 December 2009 - 03:19 PM.