19964 replies to this topic

[Paptala]

Bolded: but that's the problem, Kishi made her too human. Yes, humans can make mistakes. But humans can also make big successes. So, why haven't there been any successes from her regarding Naruto?? I get the subtlety of her achievements, but I would like there to be that one moment where she hits the jackpot and actually succeed for real. For example saying something big to push Naruto forward. In fact, I've seen other mangas where the girl is subtly successful and explicitly. So why can't it be like that?? there's no balance to her character.

So her being one of the people to save Naruto from the hell of loneliness isn't big enough for her? Her making Naruto happy by being by his side (which Naruto explicitly states in chapter 343) isn't big enough for you? Her being willing to have Naruto hate her in order to do what she feels will ease his burdens and keep him safe isn't enough for you?

I'm not trying to be rude, but I am getting a bit frustrated as I'm not understanding exactly what it is that you want from Sakura. There aren't many people in the manga who have done more for Naruto.

Either way, her character development clearly isn't done yet, and neither is the development of Naruto and Sakura's relationship, no matter which way it turns out. So there's still a chance for that big flashy move you want from Sakura.

As for the confession, you can't deny that she was manipulating Naruto, however pure her intentions are. But the fact remains that it puts her in a bad light. Manipulating him is no problem, but taking advantage of his love for her?? that's the worst way to go. There had to be better alternatives, hell, if she wanted to, she could've asked Shikamaru for his input on what she should tell him. Instead, she made the same mistakes Naruto did, not trusting anyone. Granted, even now Naruto is doing that, but Sakura is supposed to be smart, right?? so why didn't she??

Yeah, she was manipulating him - on some level. I think her mindset was more, what's hurting Naruto and how can I make it better? One of those things was the fact that he loves her and feels that those feelings are unrequited (recall her flashbacking to Naruto's words right before the POAL - "You really love Sasuke, huh? I know how much you're suffering. I feel it too" - because he too was suffering the pain of an unrequited love).

Sakura is book smart, but we've seen time and again that strong emotions can over power her logical mind - its like that with almost all of the characters. This is nothing new. I think that what's important is that Sakura's heart was in the right place, and that she was acting selflessly.

I can certainly understand your frustration with Kishimoto's treatment of Sakura's character, but regardless of your personal feelings towards Sakura's confession, Naruto does not hold it against her, and so it doesn't affect the pairing's chances of becoming canon from Naruto's end (or even really Sakura's end either).

Uh-huh. Just like most NS fans refuse to think Sakura has done anything wrong. In fact, I'm willing to guarantee you that nearly every member of this site will disagree with Sakura's confession being a lie, and in quite heated manner, I might add. The most to which I have ever seen them concede was that it was bad timing. Hinata's confession was desperate and rushed. Sakura's confession, if holding any truth, was tactless and poorly thought out. Both of them have their faults, but both of them had their hearts in the right place. Both camps want to blame the other character for being malicious or stupid, and it's ridiculous.

During her confession, Hinata sacrificed her life trying to save his. However fruitless it was, she kept trying to free him. What exactly could she have done that could possibly show more concern? You seriously think she went down there only with the intention of confessing, having absolutely no care at all whether or not she was able to save him or safeguard her own life in the process? Do you seriously think that she would deliberately risk her life if she only saw him as a prize to be had, a possession? That is absurd.

Sure, Hinata had her heart in the right place, but she flat out stated that she stood no chance against Pein, and she flat out stated that she was being selfish. If her confession went down like it did in the anime, I'd have no problem with it at all. It is the fact that she went down there, had the time to spill her heart out to him but didn't lift a finger to actually try and free him, and then throws herself at an opponent she stated that she knows that she doesn't stand a chance against. So how were her actions supposed to help at all, when it was just going to leave still Naruto pinned to the ground and forced to watch her die in front of him? Even regardless of the fruitlessness of her attempting to "save" Naruto, her confession was absolutely unnecessary - there was zero benefit in telling that to Naruto, thus logically, it was said solely for Hinata's benefit (to get it off of her chest before she dies).

At least Sakura's plan at the summit had the possibility of actually helping Naruto in some way - getting Naruto to drop the chase for Sasuke, to drop the burden of the POAL, to accept her confession of love, killing Sasuke in place of anyone else (i.e. Naruto) --> its simply not in Naruto's character to give up or take the easy way out; even if he would be safer staying in the village instead of actively trying to get back Sasuke, even if it causes him emotional pain, he wants to do it. Even if holding out until the POAL is fulfilled is emotionally harder on him than dropping the POAL, Naruto thinks its worth keeping. None of what Sakura was doing at the summit was to benefit herself (aside perhaps from easing any guilt she felt), and was intended to benefit Naruto mainly, and Sasuke a bit as well.

So yes, there certainly is a difference.

Edited by Paptala, 12 July 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Don-kun]

I seriously do not understand the mindset of anyone who partakes in this pairing war, and where they are getting their ridiculous assumptions from. I'm blamed for "taking fictional characters too seriously," yet everyone I've ever met in either part of this war seems to think that the nemesis to their preferred heroine has a mind that's just bubbling with conniving, unspoken ulterior motives. These are fictional characters. They are marionettes, puppets on Kishimoto's strings. Everything they do, say or think is at his sole discretion. When have you ever seen any of his characters, even the minor ones, plotting treachery that was not directly explained, verbally, in context? Cherry picking small parts of quotes, which probably don't even translate quite right, to label a character's entire motivation or "plan." "Hinata is selfish, she just wants to win over Naruto!" Really? Do you seriously think Kishimoto spent hours upon hours drawing these frames with the deliberate intention of evoking emotional response, all the while rubbing his hands together with an evil grin just to give Hinata some petty goal like that? Do you think the anime would have spent time drawing thousands of frames for that? It's ridiculous. And every time I hear these nonsensical theories, it makes me want to pull my hair out.

I don't know what to about that last statement of yours seriously what are you thinking

The Uchihas wanting a better position or they will create a war against Konoha leader was selfish.
Nagato trying to obtain peace true world domination was selfish.
Hiruzen not wanting to kill Orochimaru because he was dear to him.
Orochimaru wanting to take over Sasuke's body is selfish.
Tobi wanting to control the world under a genjutsu is selfish.
Kishimoto hinself called Sakura's love for Sasuke selfish.
Tsunade not caring for anyone after Dan die was selfish
Sasuke wanting to kill innocent people to restore his clan honor is selfish.
Even Naruto wanting Sasuke to be someone he doesn't want to be or live is selfish, but because we are speaking about Princess Hinata that doesn't apply, seriously.

And this is exactly the kind of false connection and apologetics I'm talking about. Once again, "overtake you" is very likely a phrase that didn't translate quite right. And even if it does, the most it could really mean is the desire to win his heart. And if you find her selfish for this, then both Naruto and Sakura are guilty of the same thing. Sakura was guilty of it concerning Sasuke, and Naruto is still guilty of it concerning Sakura. If you're going to fault Hinata for this, then you would also have to fault them for the same thing. And are you telling me that she should have just kept her distance because she knew she couldn't win, or because she couldn't have know that the Kyuubi would turn the tables? Having seen your entire village flattened by a single aggressor, and having been absolutely powerless to stop it, when you are about to see the love of your life dragged off to what is sure to be his horrible torture and doom, would you not do at least everything you could to stop it? And don't give me this "she should have trusted him, he said for everyone to stay out of it" nonsense. If I had a friend who ran in to save his child from a burning building and told me to stay outside because he didn't want me to get hurt, and if I saw him trapped under a burning beam and about to be swallowed up by the flames, do you really think I would just stand there and watch him burn alive because he told me not to get involved? Get real.

I don't know what you are trying to say or imply the fact that we already have characters saying that they will try to win the other characters heart does not excuse that they use that exact word in her confession, you can create all the crap you want but I can use 20 Manga scan and they will all say the same.

Hinata has not acknowledge how Naruto feel about Sakura, but she already making statement that she will hold his hands so we has readers have not seen a single panel of Naruto thinking about Hinata that way or she trying to becomes his friend at lease to start from something. That is a selfish beheviour and if you call out Sakura part one for not thinking about Sasuke's feeling then you have to call out Hinata.


Another thing why are you accusing NS fans for not sticking to fact, are they the ones saying that Sakura doesn't have any feelings for Sasuke, are they saying that Naruto hates Sakura, are they saying that Naruto loves Hinata, are they saying that Hinata is a bi** that need to die, are they the ones saying that Sasuke secretly loves Sakura, are they wishing for Hinata to die to be out of NaruSaku's way or we are the ones wishing for her to become important to her clan. Get your fact clear if you want to criticize people that doesn't stick to manga fact NH and SS camp is where you should start. Since you love being a moderator.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Uh-huh. Just like most NS fans refuse to think Sakura has done anything wrong. In fact, I'm willing to guarantee you that nearly every member of this site will disagree with Sakura's confession being a lie, and in quite heated manner, I might add. The most to which I have ever seen them concede was that it was bad timing. Hinata's confession was desperate and rushed. Sakura's confession, if holding any truth, was tactless and poorly thought out. Both of them have their faults, but both of them had their hearts in the right place. Both camps want to blame the other character for being malicious or stupid, and it's ridiculous.

Man sakura was more like a sasuke parrot in part1 every time sasuke calls naruto stupid or brat she say that same thing, i really hated her character and i didnt care about pairing stuff, i didnt like hinata because she was missing something to attract my attention i was hoping for some third girl perhaps a female jinchuuriki.
Part 2 the things started to change, hinata's confession was desesperate but reckless, she did not think about herself and what naruto told about not interfering she went against naruto wishes, Sakura's confession had more romantic even the scenario helped it, a couple , snow, face to face talk.
This is romantic on Japanese culture, but she was wrong too, she overestimated Naruto(kiba say this) she didnt wanted to tell naruto because she thought he was still a kid and would not understand and telling the truth this would hurt his feelings, her confession was true because even if naruto accepted she would accept naruto as her boyfriend and ofc no one would accept someome just for the sake of another person.
Her confession appeared to be fake due to the circumstances(sasuke).

The problem with NH is i dont see any rant that give opinions about NS moments they just ignore naruto thoughts and speechs though-out the manga.

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Don-kun]

What I meant was selfish in the sense that she took advantage of his feelings. She didn't take into account of his feelings. I don't think she was seeking any selfish benefits from it, but she was selfish that she didn't even think of his feelings. Sai confirmed she did, but then wouldn't she have thought of a better way?? if she was just being honest from the start, I could see it ending up like Graven's fic, and the fallout would be better.

Good point and I definitely know what you mean, but that if you believe she was lying about her feeling for Naruto has many believe, because to honest I don't understand why people will imply that her confession was a complete lie and still ship NS. Lest put it like this Naruto ignored Hinata's intention all his life, now suddenly we have Naruto confessing his love to Hinata when he always loved Sakura. People will say what happens he never shown any romantic feelings for her is Kishi just pleasing the fans or going by Hinata's popularity.

Second scenario Sasuke out of nowhere say that he loves Sakura, the first think people will think, he is trying to use her feeling to do something bad for him. Sasuke never liked Sakura.

With Sakura Kishi made sure and create all these ambiguous moments where people was questioning her feeling for Naruto, so when Sakura confesed her love people could see where it was coming from even the Author himself stated that her confession was real. This is something you can't do with Sasuke or Naruto because there isn't any build up, the moment with Sakura is not the same. Who deny her growing feelims are people who hate the NS pairing.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Good point and I definitely know what you mean, but that if you believe she was lying about her feeling for Naruto has many believe, because to honest I don't understand why people will imply that her confession was a complete lie and still ship NS.

Here it comes the greatest kitten of our time.


We are not saying her confession was a lie, but her confession appeared to be a lie because she did not confessed it because she wanted to be with naruto but she confessed it with other intentions(lift naruto's burden and let konoha deal with him)
If Sakura did not mention Sasuke there, it would be different.

"So naruto no need to keep that promise, wont you stop chasing sasuke"
Oh man naruto knows that sakura loves sasuke so much so when she said this was like something bite naruto.

http://www.mangaread...hapter-469.html

was just her mention sasuke that f**cked up everything.

Naruto can be a dumbass but he does not have autism.

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[ciardha]

Sure, Hinata had her heart in the right place, but she flat out stated that she stood no chance against Pein, and she flat out stated that she was being selfish. If her confession went down like it did in the anime, I'd have no problem with it at all. It is the fact that she went down there, had the time to spill her heart out to him but didn't lift a finger to actually try and free him, and then throws herself at an opponent she stated that she knows that she doesn't stand a chance against. So how were her actions supposed to help at all, when it was just going to leave still Naruto pinned to the ground and forced to watch her die in front of him? Even regardless of the fruitlessness of her attempting to "save" Naruto, her confession was absolutely unnecessary - there was zero benefit in telling that to Naruto, thus logically, it was said solely for Hinata's benefit (to get it off of her chest before she dies).

At least Sakura's plan at the summit had the possibility of actually helping Naruto in some way - getting Naruto to drop the chase for Sasuke, to drop the burden of the POAL, to accept her confession of love, killing Sasuke in place of anyone else (i.e. Naruto) --> its simply not in Naruto's character to give up or take the easy way out; even if he would be safer staying in the village instead of actively trying to get back Sasuke, even if it causes him emotional pain, he wants to do it. Even if holding out until the POAL is fulfilled is emotionally harder on him than dropping the POAL, Naruto thinks its worth keeping. None of what Sakura was doing at the summit was to benefit herself (aside perhaps from easing any guilt she felt), and was intended to benefit Naruto mainly, and Sasuke a bit as well.

So yes, there certainly is a difference.

Thank you, finally someone else who actually got what Kishimoto wrote and states it. Now I don't feel as frustrated about feeling like I was one of a very tiny minority of readers in the west that got it. Of course some readers have their own agenda's for either deliberately misreading it or just being incapable of seeing it- kind of like how Naruto had completely blinded himself to how Sakura's romantic feelings had changed- but for far less benevolent reasons...

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Thank you, finally someone else who actually got what Kishimoto wrote and states it. Now I don't feel as frustrated about feeling like I was one of a very tiny minority of readers in the west that got it. Of course some readers have their own agenda's for either deliberately misreading it or just being incapable of seeing it- kind of like how Naruto had completely blinded himself to how Sakura's romantic feelings had changed- but for far less benevolent reasons...

I sincerely strongly disagree if we follow her logic "hinata's confession was unnecessary" so Sakura's confession was unecessary too because she could tell the truth at the first place.

For me Hinata's confession was legit and sakura was legit too but the problem is she mention sasuke there in her confession and then naruto got what she was planning and then got the feeling that she was up to something.

"Naruto had completely blinded himself to how Sakura's romantic feelings had changed"
I disagree with you into this naruto was going to accept sakura's confession until she asked naruto to drop the "Promise" and "stop chasing sasuke".

I will stick some points here:

http://i20.mangaread...ruto-925148.jpg
She did a nice start but naruto reaction changed form umbarassed to surprised.
but then she started talking about naruto and she did a nice excuse "he was a criminal... i cant stay as a kid forever"

But then... she destroyed it when she say:
"wont you stop chasing sasuke?"
http://i12.mangaread...ruto-925149.jpg
it trigger something on naruto that makes him feel uneasy the feeling that something was wrong.

"Did something happen sakura?" "why me of all people, all of a sudden..."
naruto knows that something was wrong.
and closes himself.

This trigger his memories about sakura everything...

http://i32.mangaread...ruto-925150.jpg

He Closes himself for good and no matter what sakura says he wont believe anymore.

in the same page we can see sakura looking at naruto with uneasy she knows that he does not believe her, then she plays her last "trump" card.
http://i16.mangaread...ruto-925151.jpg

She hugs him...
And started telling him the reasons why she fallen in love with him, wich was true but Naruto already closed himself.

http://i32.mangaread...ruto-925152.jpg
http://i8.mangareade...ruto-925153.jpg
it was useless to Sakura to convince Naruto.

http://i8.mangareade...ruto-925154.jpg
She tries but it's useless....

http://i12.mangaread...ruto-963055.jpg
Time to Naruto talk.
"It's just weird" it's shows that naruto did not trust sakura because he knew that something was wrong.

http://i28.mangaread...ruto-963056.jpg
She tells the half-truth but her confession drowned there.

http://i28.mangaread...ruto-963057.jpg
"That just sounds like an excuse to me... I think u are better than that."
Naruto was right , if she told only "i love you" and started saying the reasons why she fall in love with him and asked him to come back to konoha would make more sense.

http://i3.mangareade...ruto-963059.jpg
She go away in a hurry.

http://i21.mangaread...uto-1023763.jpg
this proves why her confession didnt worked.


Some Notes: Sakura confession was honest but a real confession works when u speak with someome else about your feelings and the reasons about why u fall in love with that person.
But the problem is Sakura talked about sasuke and the promise itself asking naruto to drop the promise and stop chasing sasuke, naruto felt that her confession had a purpose behind it but could not figure it at the right time plus his immature side helped to the confession didnt work.

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Don-kun]

Here it comes the greatest kitten of our time.


We are not saying her confession was a lie, but her confession appeared to be a lie because she did not confessed it because she wanted to be with naruto but she confessed it with other intentions(lift naruto's burden and let konoha deal with him)
If Sakura did not mention Sasuke there, it would be different.

"So naruto no need to keep that promise, wont you stop chasing sasuke"
Oh man naruto knows that sakura loves sasuke so much so when she said this was like something bite naruto.

http://www.mangaread...hapter-469.html

was just her mention sasuke that f**cked up everything.

Naruto can be a dumbass but he does not have autism.

You clearly miss my point, I don't believe Sakura's confession was fake, I believe she wasn't fully honest about the reason why she confessed, she made it look like She choosed Naruto because he was a better man than what Sasuke was, in other words her confession wasn't worded the right way, but her intentions were real, Sai never say that her confession was fake he said that she confessed to him because she was thinking only about him and his feelings, that's the only reason why she confessed her love because she thought that by doing that it would lessen the burden of the Poal she give him. At that time I believe that Sakura made up her mind to be with Naruto, but since he refuses to let go of Sasuke, then she tries option two (what was Kill Sasuke) she didn't want Naruto to keep hurting himself.
She vowed not to hurt Naruto again that alone proves that she was honest about her feelings and the fact that she refuse to tell him what the rookies had in mind, because she new that would hurt him even more.

Naruto call her out yes, but that was because he refuses to let go of Sasuke old image and refuse to face reality, Sakura was giving up on Sasuke to the point where I believe is what hurted Naruto the most, but as we saw later Sai made Naruto understand that he was the one lying to himself about Sasuke and Sakura respectively to the point where the image of Team 7 shatters and he later gave us a show because he couldn't not take the pressure to know that he was the only one in Naruto word that still believed in Sasuke.

Is also truth Sakura was lying to herself because she thought she could just turn off her feelings for Sasuke, but in her confession she wanted to be with Naruto, and separate herself from Sasuke, she was so determined to take Sasuke out of Naruto's way that she tried to kill him. Later in that Arc she harshly criticizes her resolve for not killing Sasuke, but after Naruto's TNJ she thanked him for restoring her faith in Sasuke.

So if She told Naruto that she wanted to let go of Sasuke because it was hurting her while thinking that she was stupid for loving a boy like him and she proved her word later in the arc by trying to kill him, if we could see what she meant about Sasuke by proven that she wanted to kill him, why is so hard for fans to believe her when she stated that she loves Naruto, argue about her feelings, challenge his feelings for her and even the Author himself say that she wasn't lying.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[redragon88]

So if She told Naruto that she wanted to let go of Sasuke because it was hurting her while thinking that she was stupid for loving a boy like him and she proved her word later in the arc, if we believe what she meant about Sasuke by proven that she wanted to kill him, Why is so hard for fans to believe her when she said that she loves Naruto, argue about her feelings, challenge his feelings for her and even Author himself say that she wasn't lying.

That's probably because most fans wouldn't want to accept that Sakura has feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke. They think she either has to love one or the other, so when Sai starts talking about how much Sakura loves Sasuke that she's willing to kill him most of the people are prone to assume that mean she never had any romantic feelings for Naruto at all.

Many people can't deal with the fact the Sakura is developing more feelings for Naruto while at the same time she retains her feelings for Sasuke. People think that if Sakura starts falling in love with Naruto that should mean that Sasuke has to become less important to her. The problem is that Sakura's perspective of Sasuke has remained frozen in the from the moment he left the village and from that moment on they've had too little interaction for Sakura to come to new conclusions about her romantic feelings for Sasuke.

Sakura needs proper closure with her feelings for Sasuke before anything significant can happen between her and Naruto. The only way to have that closure is for her to spend time with Sasuke, but as of now I don't know how that will be possible.

[TouKen4Life3g]

That's probably because most fans wouldn't want to accept that Sakura has feelings for both Naruto and Sasuke. They think she either has to love one or the other, so when Sai starts talking about how much Sakura loves Sasuke that she's willing to kill him most of the people are prone to assume that mean she never had any romantic feelings for Naruto at all.

Many people can't deal with the fact the Sakura is developing more feelings for Naruto while at the same time she retains her feelings for Sasuke. People think that if Sakura starts falling in love with Naruto that should mean that Sasuke has to become less important to her. The problem is that Sakura's perspective of Sasuke has remained frozen in the from the moment he left the village and from that moment on they've had too little interaction for Sakura to come to new conclusions about her romantic feelings for Sasuke.

Sakura needs proper closure with her feelings for Sasuke before anything significant can happen between her and Naruto. The only way to have that closure is for her to spend time with Sasuke, but as of now I don't know how that will be possible.

Well, Sakura got the last call, so it's only matter of time. To me, Kishi is still building up the whole relationship between Naruto and Sakura. Their closure is going to be big, because we witness these two since chapter 3 and readers would be anticipated for them to either get together or not. Many manga/anime follows this structure because the audience wants action, drama, etc. before going to romance (at least in the world of Shounen or not romance manga). Many times we have seen the romance couple confirmation at the end or right before the final battle. The only problem now is the waiting. We, the readers, are growing impatient because there has been many focuses. I mean we about to wrap up Sasuke's side of story. People wants answer in the world of paring fandom. As for me, I just want a really good story.

I am a fan of this because this pairing is most logical pairing in the entire series. It's not the matter of fact whose pov is right. The manga already pointed out the obvious and buildup between these two is really nicely done. Sure, Sakura's feelings remains confusing, but I see it as a hype buildup because she is in the state of whether that Naruto is truly the man she always wanted. We embarked the journey of Naruto and how he continues to achieve his dreams. We supposed to be on his side and want him to succeed. Sakura is one of them. She's not a trophy at all. I'm saying that Naruto is a figure that kids could look up to.

Now let's think. Why continue the love triangle if Kishi wants SasuSaku to happen? Because the suspense/twist is going to be grand. The payoff will be great to everyone, minus anti. SasuSaku only leaves your head scratching, not to mention leaving a bad moral. Okay, only good part is not quitting; however, that's Naruto theme. Her theme is about growing up and waking up from fantasy, so you too can be strong. NaruHina will be rushed, because Naruto never express love. It can easily be dealt with by saying Hinata is about idolizing and a person can be influence. NaruSaku has more to it. The payoff is big and I am not saying because I'm a fan. I only become one when I truly like it and trust me, it's not easy.

In short, Sakura is the one to change the game. Sasuke is still the same (feeling wise). Naruto is the same (love her). Sakura garnered a new feeling. To me, I really don't see her keeping the same happening. It will be bland and weak climax. I doubt Kishi wouldn't tarnish his work. Besides, based on the manga, it seems their contact with Sasuke is not going to happen till probably the end, which leaves more development for Naruto and Sakura. Sasuke is going to develop the ideal of life. So yeah, while I am not too confident, I do believe NaruSaku will be the winner. Otherwise, it will be no pairing.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

The idea about Hinata's character is a waste of ink. She hardly evolves since part 1. The only thing she has is a one cool jutsu, a set of bigger breasts than Sakura's and grew her hair out like Ino.

[Dalton.T.R]

The idea about Hinata's character is a waste of ink. She hardly evolves since part 1. The only thing she has is a one cool jutsu, a set of bigger breasts than Sakura's and grew her hair out like Ino.

Exactly! And I'm getting pretty annoyed with all of these NH/SS fans coming onto NaruSaku videos and posting NARUHINA and blah blah blah! Hinata's name is just annoying to look at anymore!

[kirabook]

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to say her name is annoying.

From my point of view, she is kinda pairing fodder. That is because she doesn't seem to do anything significant other than 'chase' after Naruto. *as in, always watching, admiring, never approaching, but just always focused on him*

We don't really see Hinata any other time other than in the background with no voice or if she's thinking of Naruto or rarely interacting with him. If Kishi wishes to make her Naruto's lover, could we at least see development between the two? Occasional glances? Hinata coming to a conclusion about what she wants that doesn't involve Naruto?

I don't wish ill on the other characters at all, but it's clear that Naruto loves another. Unless Naruto changes his mind, she has nothing ahead of her but heartbreak and sorrow 'chasing' after Naruto. It would be better for her to build up herself on her own will and no0t base her life motives on him.

I mean, if it's truly just admiration, then that would be fine for her and her feelings, but she loves him romantically.

[Don-kun]

Annoying in nothing compared to what I think they really are, They go to NS FC to spread their crap, the use the NS deviant filter for NH and SS arts, in FF, Net they use NS filter to write SS or NH's stories, then come here to H&E and bash Sakura, even go on YouTube to bash NS fans honestly, I no longer know what to think about them anymore.

To start I think they are a bit crazy and paranoid about NaruSaku that they feel that they always have the need to prove us something.

[Branden]

If your upset about what somebody said on the internet, then you must be new here.
Let me give you some advice.


There are devious creatures that lurk about on the internet called "Trolls". These creatures feed on any emotional response from their victims. Given enough food these creatures can become more powerful then you could possibly imagine. There are certain websites that are home to millions of trolls, and it may seem difficult to survive in these websites. But they do have a weakness. If you stop responding to them and ignore them entirely they die of starvation. Though you may still have an emotional response in your thoughts, it's key to not project those thoughts to the outer world.

"Stop responding, kill a troll, save a life." -Branden 2012

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Annoying in nothing compared to what I think they really are, They go to NS FC to spread their crap, the use the NS deviant filter for NH and SS arts, in FF, Net they use NS filter to write SS or NH's stories, then come here to H&E and bash Sakura, even go on YouTube to bash NS fans honestly, I no longer know what to think about them anymore.

To start I think they are a bit crazy and paranoid about NaruSaku that they feel that they always have the need to prove us something.

They hate the fact that Sakura started off bad from the beginning of the manga. And this is their bias reason they detest NS. They also don't like Tsundere characters.

@Branden: But it wouldn't help the sole cause if someone on the NS shipping goes on ranting on how weak Sakura's character is to other kunoichi her age

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 13 July 2012 - 03:09 AM.

[Codus N]

So her being one of the people to save Naruto from the hell of loneliness isn't big enough for her? Her making Naruto happy by being by his side (which Naruto explicitly states in chapter 343) isn't big enough for you? Her being willing to have Naruto hate her in order to do what she feels will ease his burdens and keep him safe isn't enough for you?

I'm not trying to be rude, but I am getting a bit frustrated as I'm not understanding exactly what it is that you want from Sakura. There aren't many people in the manga who have done more for Naruto.

Either way, her character development clearly isn't done yet, and neither is the development of Naruto and Sakura's relationship, no matter which way it turns out. So there's still a chance for that big flashy move you want from Sakura.

Yeah, she was manipulating him - on some level. I think her mindset was more, what's hurting Naruto and how can I make it better? One of those things was the fact that he loves her and feels that those feelings are unrequited (recall her flashbacking to Naruto's words right before the POAL - "You really love Sasuke, huh? I know how much you're suffering. I feel it too" - because he too was suffering the pain of an unrequited love).

Sakura is book smart, but we've seen time and again that strong emotions can over power her logical mind - its like that with almost all of the characters. This is nothing new. I think that what's important is that Sakura's heart was in the right place, and that she was acting selflessly.

I can certainly understand your frustration with Kishimoto's treatment of Sakura's character, but regardless of your personal feelings towards Sakura's confession, Naruto does not hold it against her, and so it doesn't affect the pairing's chances of becoming canon from Naruto's end (or even really Sakura's end either).

Yes. It's not enough. First, the one who brought him out of his loneliness was really Iruka. Team 7 came in later. But however, I do understand that Naruto appreciates Team 7 for giving him those that he always wanted. But still, their significance to me pales in comparison to Iruka. Time and again, when we see this topic brought up in Naruto, the first person that comes to Naruto's mind would be Iruka. Where's Team 7?? where's Sakura??

Second, on ch. 343, you're wrong about that, he was talking about being closer to Sasuke. If you meant this page:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-343.html

I understand. But it looks like he's taking it for granted. The way he so callously said that makes it look insignificant to me. But however, the ramen scene.... no disputing that.

As for her character development, I certainly hope for more. But did it have to be so late into the game?? oh well, at least it's better than never... as for her confession, yes, I won't argue that her heart was in the right place. But it does, like I've said before, put her in a bad light. As for Naruto's thoughts about the confession, that's really up to interpretation whether or not he holds a grudge or not as we've not seen him think about it since.

[Dragunov]

Hmmm, this space has gotten quite interesting, to say the least. Well, maybe I should throw in my two cents? Ok, let's begin. In regards to Hinata's confession: Eh, she tried. I mean, practically, that was sort of kind of a last call. In my interpretation, I think she went in knowing she was going to die. Why? Well, everything that led up to that moment, why was Hinata so incapable of even approaching Naruto, and now, in matter of minutes, spills her guts then and there? By that time, then and there, she probably knew that sheouldn't save Naruto; that Pain had won. She threw herself knowing that, at least she would go down trying to protect him. Was her sacrifice for the wrong reasons? Depends on what light you look at it. It comes down to two things: did she throw herself in to protect Naruto, or to confess before he died? I guess we can be sure (regardless of opinion), that she was unable to stop Pain. No matter how hard she could have tried, it was already over. Now-did she go in honestly thinking that she could stop Pain? Obviously not. Now here's the thing-why did she confess, at of all possible times and places? Did the situation really seem practical of the situation? Was her direct approach against Pain the smart way to go? No. It all seems to point out as if she knew that if she went in, she was going to die. Well, at least that's how I see it. Again, this is my interpretation of the evidence at hand; no more, no less. If you see any fault in my argument, present it and point your evidence.

[Paptala]

Yes. It's not enough. First, the one who brought him out of his loneliness was really Iruka. Team 7 came in later. But however, I do understand that Naruto appreciates Team 7 for giving him those that he always wanted. But still, their significance to me pales in comparison to Iruka. Time and again, when we see this topic brought up in Naruto, the first person that comes to Naruto's mind would be Iruka. Where's Team 7?? where's Sakura??

I don't think that Iruka pales in comparison to his bond with Team 7, given that he listed everyone in Team 7, and was telling Gaara that they were most important because they saved him from the hell of loneliness. This could be because he became a part of that team so close in time after Iruka acknowledged him. I don't know. But in the manga, Naruto hasn't singled out Iruka in his thoughts as being more important or life-impacting than Sasuke, Sakura, or Kakashi (that I can recall at least - please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There was obviously some criteria too, given that he didn't think of any of the rookies that he had become friends with in the chuunin exams (including Hinata whom he did open up to about some of his insecurities like he did with Iruka).

Though I can certainly see why you would feel Iruka did more, given that he was the first and that what he did was so significant.

Second, on ch. 343, you're wrong about that, he was talking about being closer to Sasuke. If you meant this page:

http://www.mangaread...hapter-343.html

That's what I thought at first, but that's not quite true.

Look at the conversation, and the words Naruto uses (I'll use two different translations, as I couldn't see the page on manga reader):
[after Sakura scolds him about his injuries and being reckless with using the rasenshuriken]N: "I'll be fine as long as I have you to fix me up!"
S: "No you won't! Medical ninjutsu can't just heal every injury right away!"
N: [gives Sakura a fond, perhaps indulgent smile as though she's not really understanding what he's actually trying to say/get at] "...actually I feel really good...really happy..."
S: "Huh?"
N: "I feel like the two of us are getting closer to Sasuke."
S: [surprised look]

http://www.mangahere...v38/c343/8.html

N: "I'll be fine as long as you heal it!"
S: "That's not what I'm saying! Medical ninjutsu can't heal every injury right away!"
N: [same indulgent smile] "...but...this kind of makes me happy..."
S: "Huh?"
N: "It feels like we're getting closer to Sasuke, together."
S: [surprised look]

http://eatmanga.com/...ruto-343/page-6
http://eatmanga.com/...ruto-343/page-7

There are slight differences in phrasing, but the ultimate point of this exchange is the same. Naruto is trying to tell Sakura that he'll be fine as long as she's by his side, Sakura takes it literally (which is ironic in the second translation as she scolds Naruto for not getting what she meant), Naruto gives a small, indulgent smile, and then tells her he is happy, because they are getting closer to Sasuke TOGETHER (or in the first translation, "the two of us are"). To me, this makes a lot of sense, because Naruto made clear how much not being alone meant to him ("I can be unconcerned about being possessed or being treated coldly by the villagers because I'm not alone anymore! I had no idea how happy that would make me...I felt blessed from the bottom of my heart..") (chapter 132, pages 9 & 10)

I understand. But it looks like he's taking it for granted. The way he so callously said that makes it look insignificant to me. But however, the ramen scene.... no disputing that.

I don't think that he said it callously at all (if his "this makes me happy" scene is what you're still referring to). Though it could of come across as flippant with Naruto's initial remark and goofy smile, his subsequent softer smile with dots in the speech bubble, and Sakura's reaction (both in the flashback and after recalling it) demonstrate that it's more significant than that. I think Naruto was trying to get his appreciation of her being by his side across, and Sakura got the message on some level. After all, if it was insignificant or callously said, then why would Sakura look so surprised, and why would it instigate her feeding Naruto ramen (an act that is decidely intimate on some level, especially in Japan given Naruto's reaction to it).

I can understand if you understand the scene differently, this is just how I have come to understand it.

As for her character development, I certainly hope for more. But did it have to be so late into the game?? oh well, at least it's better than never...

True, very true - I would have loved for Kishimoto to have kept up the same focus and rate of development with Sakura as he did in early part two; still, beggars can't be choosers and she has more than many others.

as for her confession, yes, I won't argue that her heart was in the right place. But it does, like I've said before, put her in a bad light. As for Naruto's thoughts about the confession, that's really up to interpretation whether or not he holds a grudge or not as we've not seen him think about it since.

Well, even without thinking on it, or bringing it up; he was shown in his subsequent conversations with Sakura and Sai to understand why she was did what she did, and seem to accept it. After that, he doesn't treat her any less affectionately than he did before. He's still protective of her, still smiles at her, is still friendly with her, and she is still the only girl that he addresses with '-chan'. Plus, given his prior characterization given his feelings for Sasuke after all that Sasuke has intentionally done, its hard to believe that Sakura's actions at the summit, clearly done with Naruto's best interests at heart, would cause him to hold a grudge where Sasuke's multiple betrayals and murder attempts would not. It's simply not in Naruto's nature to hold on to any negative ill will (unless a person truly deserves it, and even then... I mean, look his last interaction with zombie!Nagato).

There simply isn't any evidence showing that Naruto /does/ hold a grudge, and given Naruto and Sakura's multiple positive interactions since then, I don't think there's really any basis to even speculate that he might be harboring one that just hasn't been shown yet.

Edited by Paptala, 13 July 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Codus N]

I don't think that Iruka pales in comparison to his bond with Team 7, given that he listed everyone in Team 7, and was telling Gaara that they were most important because they saved him from the hell of loneliness. This could be because he became a part of that team so close in time after Iruka acknowledged him. I don't know. But in the manga, Naruto hasn't singled out Iruka in his thoughts as being more important or life-impacting than Sasuke, Sakura, or Kakashi (that I can recall at least - please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There was obviously some criteria too, given that he didn't think of any of the rookies that he had become friends with in the chuunin exams (including Hinata whom he did open up to about some of his insecurities like he did with Iruka).

I don't think that he said it callously at all (if his "this makes me happy" scene is what you're still referring to). Though it could of come across as flippant with Naruto's initial remark and goofy smile, his subsequent softer smile with dots in the speech bubble, and Sakura's reaction (both in the flashback and after recalling it) demonstrate that it's more significant than that. I think Naruto was trying to get his appreciation of her being by his side across, and Sakura got the message on some level. After all, if it was insignificant or callously said, then why would Sakura look so surprised, and why would it instigate her feeding Naruto ramen (an act that is decidely intimate on some level, especially in Japan given Naruto's reaction to it).

I can understand if you understand the scene differently, this is just how I have come to understand it.

Well, even without thinking on it, or bringing it up; he was shown in his subsequent conversations with Sakura and Sai to understand why she was did what she did, and seem to accept it. After that, he doesn't treat her any less affectionately than he did before. He's still protective of her, still smiles at her, is still friendly with her, and she is still the only girl that he addresses with '-chan'. Plus, given his prior characterization given his feelings for Sasuke after all that Sasuke has intentionally done, its hard to believe that Sakura's actions at the summit, clearly done with Naruto's best interests at heart, would cause him to hold a grudge where Sasuke's multiple betrayals and murder attempts would not. It's simply not in Naruto's nature to hold on to any negative ill will (unless a person truly deserves it, and even then... I mean, look his last interaction with zombie!Nagato).

There simply isn't any evidence showing that Naruto /does/ hold a grudge, and given Naruto and Sakura's multiple positive interactions since then, I don't think there's really any basis to even speculate that he might be harboring one that just hasn't been shown yet.

Bolded 1: You're asking me to search through 600 chapters?? (I know you're not, but you get my point). But there is a recent moment where just before he releases the seal imprisoning Kurama, he remembers back to chapter 1 where Iruka acknowledges him. It felt much more impact ful than the Team 7 bond, since it even affects his relationship with Kurama. There's also the VOTE battle where Naruto admits that Iruka is a father figure to him. That's about what I can remember.

Next, Naruto's flippant attitude. It's true that's what makes his character, but it falls flat in a romantic sense in the way he said it. But I pretty much figured that would be your opinion. I won't deny the underlying message, but it could've been y'know.... executed better ??

Bolded 2: Where?? where's that conversation?? show me. But I do understand that it's not in his character to hold a grudge, but I'd at least like to see a panel showing his thoughts.