31720 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

That theory will never happen. It doesn't even make sense, is very immoral, and why in the world would Sakura go back to Karin after being forced to be pregnant and not agreeing to it?
 
@Honestly,
 
Can you be respectful please? Of course I read the manga. I disagree with a lot of points being brought up, and some are just incorrect, but I'm not stating people haven't read the manga. Certainly some have misread points, which happens, but I'm assuming in these discussions that the manga is read by those discussing it. Assume that of me as well.

Oh my God shut up with your long winded posts defending this crap ending and sequal. Naruto and Sasuke sucks case and point.

[VanitasDS76491]

I don't think God appreciates his name evoked like this.
 
I don't think the ending was bad, nor that Naruto and Sasuke "suck". So I defend against false arguments and discuss my subjective opinion on why, using objective truths to strengthen my position, and see no reason to shut up while there are a plethora of discussion still ongoing about it.

How do you know the other people on here have false argument. No one cares about naruto anymore let it die.
I will continue to hate this piece of kitten ending. Cause nh and ss suck.
Ok smart ass explain naruto getting with Hinata through a genjustu something he is immune to now cause he's friends with kurama.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

I don't think God appreciates his name evoked like this.

 

I don't think the ending was bad, nor that Naruto and Sasuke "suck". So I defend against false arguments and discuss my subjective opinion on why, using objective truths to strengthen my position, and see no reason to shut up while there are a plethora of discussion still ongoing about it.

Trying to look like you have some sort of moral high ground by "defending 'god'" is no better, or is even worse, than someone simply saying, "Oh my god" when it comes to using the name.

And you're not using "objective truths". You're continuing to use assumptions, not what was actually shown or said, while twisting the truth around on what IS shown and said in order to fit the narrative you want to be true in spite of all the evidence that has been shown to the contrary.

[VanitasDS76491]

Trying to look like you have some sort of moral high ground by "defending 'god'" is no better, or is even worse, than someone simply saying, "Oh my god" when it comes to using the name.
And you're not using "objective truths". You're continuing to use assumptions, not what was actually shown or said, while twisting the truth around on what IS shown and said in order to fit the narrative you want to be true in spite of all the evidence that has been shown to the contrary.

Yes thanks he thinks he's high and mighty with his posts defending the Naruto ending.

[rocci]

Karin is red herring?

A bad red herring because salad use a freaking glasses when both ss doesn't use it nor their family have use it. And that's vocal point of Karin as character.

And please refrain from attacking a member on this forum. We have a rule for that.

[rocci]

 
I have glasses, but neither of my parents did. This isn't a purely genetic thing, so it's fine to use, and it helped with the tension in Gaiden. I actually enjoyed that particular choice. 
 
Thank you for reminding everyone though about forum member attacking. 

When did you use the glasses?

[rocci]

Use, or need them? I've had glasses since I was a toddler.

Well, you use them because you need them.

Does any of your relative use the glasses too?

[rocci]

No actually.

Ok

[Phantom_999]

The Ending was Gaiden inspired, so you see Sarada/Sakura/Sasuke a lot and you feel Sarada's pain about not having a father and wanting to be a family. Kind of bittersweet.

 

1: Why? Because Kishimoto wanted it to be funny. Up to interpretation if you think it is funny. I think it's bad to hammer in some idea, as you ruin the humor.

 

2: Hinata didn't know Hanabi was maimed or possibly disabled until she "Betrayed" Naruto. So we can't make the assertion you're asking me to. I don't think Hinata was overly thinking about Naruto -until- the Sage of Six's path brother revealed to her her destiny, as she was thinking about betraying him, which is a HUGE decision. The sewing was a clear way of relaxing, as she wasn't going to rest like the others, and concerning the situation at hand, it's not surprising. You're putting too much emphasis on the Scarf. The Scarf isn't forcing anything, the movie isn't forcing anything. The Scarf is merely a symbol of Hinata's unwavering feelings towards Naruto, it can get torn and burned and scorched, but it endures. Yes, the Last could have done more small scenes to show the relationship progression, but I don't think there was any forcing. (What does -forcing- even mean? I could write two characters getting married after a drunken one night stand in Vegas, am I forcing them? Heck no, the characters in this world made the mistake themselves. I'm just writing a story.) There's enough substance in the manga to make what happens plausible. Because the Scarf is a symbol of their relationship, it makes no sense for Hinata to give it to Hanabi. She gives Naruto a message when she gives him the scarf initially, but Naruto doesn't get it, and sees betrayal instead.

 

3: All characters are Naruto-Centric in the sense that they push Naruto forward, in a literary sense.

 

If we're talking actual character goals, then Hinata's would be to be a stronger person/ninja. She achieves this goal, pretty much, finally doing the 64 palm in the manga like Neji did. (She actually thinks of Neji in this moment.).

 

The problem with your hand holding thing is you're asserting that is how someone must react. The simple translation to the Hand Comment is that it makes Hinata feel confident and reassured. No one person would react to it the same. Some might get a little excited that their hand was hold, another insulted, another would still be weeping over Neji, another person just angry and ready to kick butt. But Hinata's reaction for her character makes sense, and it makes sense it's not another comment about Neji, especially since she just gave a speech about him.

 

On your last paragraph....

 

Well, I am a NS fan. I'm assuming Neutral means no pairing inclination here. Who you ship has nothing to do with what you can and can't see. I think we should establish that.

As for objectification, we steer in dangerous waters when we point Objectifier at male Hinata fans. It's important to be very specific, and I think important to recognize the majority of NH fans, of either gender, do not do this. It's from the past passionate rivalry, but we have to understand most fans aren't objectifiers, and don't throw such demeaning insults at another character. When they do, they're typically young, and immature, write in Caps lock for no reason on their points, can be vulgar, and other elements. Most fans of pairings kind of put the pairing pretty high and adore it, and they tend to be their favorite character? It's typical fan reaction.

 

The thing we do, because we see or assume we see this "purity", is we assert the opposite on our side. This is where problems start, and why I am seemingly defending her so much, because it's not justified or balanced, more reactionary rather than: Hinata has some instances when she doesn't focus on Naruto, but she still does a lot, and would have had the issues I explained better corrected by being more connected to the plot as one of the main characters. (Not my point of view, just giving an example). Instead I see these reactionary, sometimes hate-driven assertations, the Scarf one of them, which is why I am so passionately standing strong against such behavior.

 

One good thing to note:"Rabid" Hinata fan's aren't on these forums, so it's a good place to give a fair outlook on Hinata without seeing her praised to the heavens, and it's a shame it's not taken more advantage of.

 

Correction. Gaiden isn't about Sarada's pain about not having a father in her life, it turned into a soap opera about who her mother is, which was a convoluted pulling the audience's leg plot even when the answer is obvious

 

1. Wrong. the part with Kakashi and Sai IS MEANT TO BE FUNNY. Your answer doesn't  disprove anything about the moment between Naruto and Sakura being romantic because you are not even adressing it, you are treating it as a setup for a punch line line when it is not. I repeat. The scene would still be funny even if Sakura didn't offer first. You're acting like the scene was necessary for the comedy part, which it isn't

 

2.You, again, are not disproving anything. If Hinata was supposed to think of knitting as a form of relaxation because she is pondering to  whether to betray Naruto, wouldn't that come AFTER Toneri offered her to join him? And again even that was the case That proves  Hinata couldn't give 2 thoughts to her sister.  AND NO, don't give me that excuse that she didn't know , I'm pretty sure she would have been told, or had seen Hanabi with bandages on her face. I don't even imagine Hinata taking part in the mission itself without knowing that very important crucial detail.

 

Plus your example IS  FORCED. Why? they are married after a drunk one night stand, exactly. Same here. Naruto and Hinata fell in love because, WHY? because of a genjutsu. Don't try to tell me otherwise Naruto only realized his feelings because of a genjutsu, when he couldn't realize it after she told him straight to his face. what forcing in a writing narrative is is something pops out of nowhere and looks artificially placed in with no foreshadowing nor does it seem natural with the flow of the story. AND on that topic, please enlighten me. Show me all the panels where Naruto and Hinata have interacted in the manga and tell me why or how it is more romantic than the moments with Sakura. If not, just admit you are a biased NH fan right now.

 

 

3. NOPE. I mean Naruto-centric as in Naruto is all they think about, Naruto is their ideal, they do what Naruto says without question, and they don't have a goal that does not involve Naruto. I don't see that really with anyone that is not Hinata. Your argument, once again, disproves nothing that I have said. 

 

No I am speaking of the most natural reaction of when your family dies. If Naruto makes her feel confident and assured, that means she got over Neji's death pretty quickly and is not thinking about him, and again Naruto's "big, strong" hand is making her feel good, therefore she only thinking about Naruto, and not about Neji's sacrifice. WOW you are proving yourself wrong YOUSELF. So how is Hinata not being selfish and only having Naruto in the brain? How is she actually thinking of Neji? You tell me. If she is only quoting what Neji is saying, she is not thinking of Neji, If she is only trying to cheer Naruto up, again that is not thinking of her cousin that is only thinking of the man she is in love with therefore her cousin means nothing to her. End of story. And dreaming of Neji being alive being alive is not evidence enough to say she is thinking about him because the most prominent aspect of her dream is dating Naruto. If I'm making this seem negative, let me correct myself, it's not a bad thing, however it shows Hinata is a one dimensional character that is only about Naruto. I'm disregarding what happens in the last, I am talking about the manga.

 

Clearly you don't even know what you're talking about. Isn't what you just described putting that character on a pedestal and ignoring their flaws? Because clearly that's what you're doing. You are describing Hinata as this perfect, flawless angel, and are not admitting her faults. That is not defending her that is worshipping her as a goddess just like all those other rabid-hinata fans are.

 

I can acknowledge a character's faults and flaws. Sakura was selfishly obsessed with Sasuke and being in love woth him for so long was bad for her character. I can admit that, I would also admit Hinata sweet and selfless girl if there instances where she shows to care  about other individuals other than Naruto, but there aren't, or at least she exhibit any convincing behaviour to indicate so. When Naruto fought Kiba in the Chuunin exams Hinata tried to muster up her courage to say he was amazing, but with Kiba? Not a peep. even though Kiba is her teammate. When Naruto got knocked down by Tobi, she exhibited explicit concern for him, but again no reaction for Kiba. In the few scenes we see Hinata in the manga she does not interact with her teammates that show any indcation that she is close with them and instead focuses on her devotion to Naruto. We may exaggerate on Hinata's character that it comes off as hating her, but I'm pretty sure it is more or less accurate. Hinata has not given us reason to believe otherwise.

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 July 2017 - 06:46 AM.

[ultranx]

I didn't (and will never) watch the last so correct me if i'm wrong. The fact that Hinata knows that Naruto wearing a scarf from Kushina and STILL insist knitting her own scarf for Naruto is really bad writing (the message for me is "I want you to forget about your mom and focus on me) adding into that is how Naruto instantly discard/throw away scarf from his own late mother as soon as he got the new one from Hinata ... Hinata should respect that and choose something else ... a pair of glove is good enough , Naruto .... man they really F him good in this movie.

 

Also this is just me but  ..... Winter ?? In Konoha Land of Fire / Fire country ???? I mean we know where the snow is ... is in the Land of Iron. Whoever write the story for this movie is SOOO F-ing stupid "OH it's a romance movie so we have to make it WINTER!!!" , i never saw once in the manga there is F-ing winter in Konoha .....

 

This movie is a big pile of S , it has no logic.

LOVE THIS, AGREED 9000%. THIS COMMENT IS A GEM.

[ultranx]

It's annoying sometimes in anime/manga they use this ... vague sign and say "Hey reader/watcher , try guessing/find out what does this mean". I mean why can they just say it clearly instead of putting this puzzle ...   , this is not a detective connan or sherlock holmes or crime story where you have to solve the puzzle and mysteries.

Life is a mystery? god works in mysterious ways?  mysterio, spider man?

[ultranx]

 

But it's objectively false. His assumption is wrong, a cause of not watching what he is commenting on. He should watch it (Can't hurt), then go back and comment on it. 

weird, if its objectively false, why did I understand it? why have I heard it before through storytelling? storytellers are heroes too? there's such a thing as good fanfics, like this one?

 

New chapter from Stoppelbart,

 

Putting the Pieces back together

Chapter 112: Chapter 112

 

https://www.fanficti...s-back-together

 

StarCraft

 

Words: 8,664

Genre: Spiritual/Romance

Rated: M

Character: [Sarah K., James R.] Matt H., Izsha

 

Summary: Two years. Two years Jim had to wait until a certain someone decided to return to him. But what happened to Jim and Sarah in those two years? Why did Sarah choose to return to Jim in the first place? And what happened afterwards to them? Here's your answer!

 

but the email notification must be a lie right? the cake is a lie?

 

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 04:27 PM.

[ultranx]

[ultranx]

 

Your videos are very off-topic. Did you watch the Last?

 

I'm not really sure what you are saying in response either, what did you understand exactly? If his statement is objectively false, you're going to need to elaborate on what you understood.

are you sure I need to watch the last? I've watched bits and pieces of the most important scenes in english subtitles, even as pictures, so do I really need to watch it? won't make me actually like it.

I have my own likes and dislikes, my own preferences, I'm me, an individual.

if you really like it, then fine. I don't mind, I respect that, but that doesn't mean I will enjoy it like you do.

 

"THE POWER IS IN YOUR MIND. TO SHAKE THE PLANETS AND CONQUER TIME." SONIC GENERATIONS TIME BREAK SKILL GLITCH. TIME BREAK, LIMIT BREAK

 

 

 

LIMIT BREAK X SURVIVOR, DRAGON BALL SUPER

 

 

because I'm unique and need things explained in a certain way, in this case, sight, hearing, and words combined, unity

 

 

 

in a deep and philosophical way

 

gotta focus on being me, while helping others, letting myself be remembered, never giving up, accepting I'm a human being, being a man

true xD just had to read between the lines, and take out the negativity

love everything, don't let the negativity get to us?

love god, love thy self, love thy family, love thy neighbor, love everything

SONIC FTW

the reason I like dragon ball? I now know the answer: I relate to akira toriyama, he never gave up, he gave his story a end, but decided to continue it, and further the journey towards his ending, because the journey in life is what's most important. so I will never give up too. as naruto would say: "THAT'S MY NINDO, MY NINJA WAY

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 04:51 PM.

[ultranx]

 

I don't have any expectations of that, but it's good to watch something in whole before making analytical or reviewing comments, or worse, agreeing to others that make such without watching it.

well if you enjoy it then that's fine okay dude xD

also read my comments above, if you want xD

 

also, I recommend watching "The cake is a lie explained." video.

 

 

Edited by ultranx, 17 July 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[ultranx]

 

YouTube

ANIME LYRICS

No Game No Life op [[This Game]] ~「English and Romaji Lyrics」

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkRcgbNr7SQ

YouTube

Overtaken Productions

MOVING FORWARD BY HEZEKIAH WALKER - LYRIC VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqajJAv0bXo

YouTube

sherrifjam917

Awake and Alive-Skillet

 

 

this is awesome xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRkIQ1Djlbs

YouTube

christal9900

Skillet- Hero (lyrics)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57nmmjZ1xsY

YouTube

astraycat

V for Victory

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=KfGQfQwlFlM Here are the Lyrics of this amazing japanese song : Translated: I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" The beat of my heart reaches out to you, so far away It's OK if I get hurt. I want to live passionately and intensely without turning my eyes away. Because it was you who gave me the strength to never give up, I want to embrace you. I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" Mistakes and pain lead us to a brilliant, momentary light. I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" The beat of my heart reaches out to you, so far away Yeah... Lithely accepting the moment with my bare skin, I want to find more "gentleness!" Take back the miracle of your youth, when everything shined. I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" I believe in the kindness of feeling and understanding each other's heartbreak. I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" With this kiss, I want to [3] show a definite passion to you, so far away... I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" Mistakes and pain lead us to a brilliant, momentary light. I just feel the "Rhythm Emotion" The beat of my heart reaches out to you, so far away

 

YouTube

BrandonLeeXD1

Gundam Wing - Rhythm Emotion w/ Lyrics

 

Edited by ultranx, 18 July 2017 - 04:49 AM.

[Phantom_999]

1: I'm not understanding what you are saying. You are saying the scene would be funny even without Kakashi and Sai? It's funny because Naruto wants his crush to do it, but Sai and Kakashi butt in instead, the whole point of the humor is the butt in from those two considering what Naruto hoped to happen.

 

2: Hinata didn't know, though. No one knew Hanabi was missing her eyes, they just knew she was kidnapped. Further, I fail to see what is wrong with sewing at all, or that we needed Hinata's constant worry of her sister hammered in our faces. The fact that Hinata asked to join on the mission is enough evidence, she -wanted- to save her sister. Naruto and Hinata also didn't fall in love because of a Genjutsu. The Genjutsu just was a useful tool of showing Naruto what love was. He then understood his feelings and her own feelings, and romance could now proceed. The development to that point was put in to the manga. Granted, as I posted in another thread, Naruto and Hinata's bond could have been utilized more, but it still was executed fine.

 

3: Hinata wants to become stronger for herself? Naruto is the main character? Sure, Kishimoto could have utilized Hinata more, if that's the base of your argument. I'll agree with that. As she was also fighting in the war, her goal obviously was to defeat Obito, if we're going to throw base non-Naruto goals out there. But as Naruto is the protagonist, its natural things will relate to Naruto, its how they connect on a plot level. But if you're arguing she wasn't utilized enough, sure, we agree.

 

Hinata thinks about Neji later, when she does the sixty-four palm. Two, she's in a war. She can't brood and grieve properly until the battle is over. Shrugging it off ASAP (Which Naruto does too, by the argument you present, and everyone else), is a must to survive. They grieve for him later, and we see that, we also see Hinata visit Neji's grave in 700. He's clearly important, and saying otherwise is incorrect. Her son is named after Neji. What more are you wanting, a quote that says "I MISS NEJI?". It's very shown that he was important to her.

 

Hinata actually has trouble in who she voices her rooting for, and approaches Kiba after the chuunin exams battle, to check on him. I'm not saying Hanta is perfect, what I am doing here, is just stating why the faults you are pointing out are either not faults, due to not accessing all the details,  or wildly not true. 

 

Hinata was underutilized. That is a negative you can point out. But to be honest? Kishimoto didn't do a bad job with her, probably one of his better female characters, minus the amount of Naruto's names lines she says, though I think that's cultural, and won't push that.

 

No, I'm saying the scene would have been funny even if Sakura didn't offer to feed him or think on how he reassured her they will bring Sasuke back. That scene was not necessary for the comedy and therefore, because it was put in anyway, it is meant to be romantic.

 

Okay I'm going about this the wrong way, so let me start over. And I'm TRYING to make this simple. The scarf for the last time, is not the problem. What IS, is that Hinata was fussing over it and knitting when it would have been more realistic for her to think about how to rescue Hanabi. Call it stress relief if you wish, yes, but again the fact of the matter is why she is knitting that scarf in the first place because she wants to knit a scarf for Naruto, which is not the appropriate setting to do that. I would think HInata again would be worrying for her sister's safety. A more realistic response form Hinata would be she would leave the scarf at home and worrying about finishing it when Hanabi is SAFE. I don't think there is another manga or anime where there is a female character knitting something to relief stress when there is an important mission going on concerning someone that they care about. and even if it were stress relief, it s more realistic to releif stress buy thinking how you want to give that textile itenm you are making for the person you are concerned about rescuing, rather than a person completely safe and not the one who was kidnapped.

 

I already said this I liked Hinata's character which is why I hated the movie. It was out of  character, even for her. In the manga or the anime, Hinata would be showing her concern for her sister and steeling her resolve to get her back, instead of worrying about a saarf she would make for Naruto. That is what her character is about isn't it? Ito be a stronger person for another's sake( even if 90% of the time that person is only Naruto) What she wwas doing in the last is nothing but a male fantasy of some perfect ideal woman that would give all of her love to you and no one else, nor would she speak against you for anything. That is not the Hinata that I like as a character, it's in the manga, where she IS shy but at least shows some grit where it counts.

 

Also you just pointed out exactly why it is a fault. There is not much to go on. In a writing narrative, unless the point is a character is not important to the plot, it is crucial to give as much information about that character as you can, otherwise it is not a proper character. Hinata has little to go on for her character so I don't think I'm unjustified in how I view her character, and besides you , no one else here does either because again Hinata is not expanded upon as a character very much. It is a logical fallacy to see so little information and make a long thought out and insightful analysis on it then assume it is entirely correct or false. But I'm not doing that, I am going off of EXACTLY WHAT I see. So yes we are agreed there. Hinata should have been utilized to be more as a character and less as a single Naruto fangirl, but that is where the problem lies. she wasn't.

 

Lastly, I know Hinata wasn't sure who she wanted it to root for, and there is no problem with that. However she showed a CLEAR EXPLICIT bias for Naruto over Kiba. Again I bring up the fact that when Naruto caught Akamaru, Hinata was going to tell him he was amazing before being cut off by Sakura, who shouted it. On the other hand Hinata wasn't going to say anything for Kiba when he did well or encourage him in a way that lest he know that she is. That is the difference. It's BECAUSE I like Hinata as a character that I want her to be fleshed out more and have her friendships with Kiba and Shino expanded upon, and not have her be someone who only thinks about Naruto. In real life, a person who only thinks about one other person, and that one other person is all that matters to him/ her is not in a healthy or fulfilling mindset.

 

And before you bring up that Hinata does care about others secretly, I again bring up the problem that she is not SHOWN as doing that. if she was shown on panel talking to Shino or Kiba, or hell even her sister in a casual or relaxing setting then yeah that would speak volumes of how she is a fleshed out character and not "girl who loves Naruto, that has a name", plus is genuinely affectionate and attentive to her friends and family. In a Story, it is up to the author to SHOW, not TELL  who their character is and what they are about. when you show by the narrative you are giving the audience a reason as to why they see that character as you do, when you tell, you are only forcing the audience to see the character as you do and not giving a reason other than "you say so"   

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 July 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[Phantom_999]

No YOU ASSUME that we don't like Hinata, I am using evidence from manga to state my opinion. You're not analyzing anything nor are disproving my arguments you're just putting words in my mouth and saying I'm am taking things out of context from the story and twisting them to something that I WANT TO see when in fact you are doing the same thing. 

 

I've asked you this a million times. SHOW ME that there Naruto was meant to be with Hinata from the beginning IN THE MANGA. SHOW that  their moments were romantic and that Naruto's interactions with Sakura were only platonic, and not romantic.  if you can't stop, trying to defend Naruto and Hinata's relationship and or how their characters were handled, and don't bother calling yourself an NS fan because you clearly are only wearing shipping goggles for NH and dismiss Naruto and Sakura interactions as playing brother and sister, without presenting any proper evidence.

 

You are accusing us of not like Hinata, When I personally have not said a spiteful word against her, only how she was handled as a character. and when I ask how any of Naruto's  interactions with Hinata were treated as romantic but not Sakura's interactions with Naruto you don't bother explaining anything, except repeating your accusations that we are reading the manga wrong and that we are being unfair to Hinata. That is not analyzing or keeping an open mind to anything you are just playing devil's advocate because you think it's "fun". Am I wrong? how about you actually use manga evidence to back up your claims and not tell me straight up to my face that I'm biased 

Edited by Phantom_999, 18 July 2017 - 08:53 PM.

[T XD]

@ Analyzer : Can you please list the moments, facts and the development of the romantic build up for Naruto to be with Hinata in the manga ?

[T XD]

@T XD:
 
There's relationship development, but there's no "romantic" build up for any pairing IMO. But if you want me to show the relationship progression, so that the romance can actually happen, I can work on a list of that. Probably what you meant anyway, I assume.

If you want to or any other indicative way that you took it as relationship development for NH throughout the manga.

Edited by T XD, 20 July 2017 - 01:00 AM.