Haha, cliches are everywhereeeeeeee dude. But yeah, you may have come across some awesome manga/anime too xD. I'm just expressing how I personally feel it's been the best for me. Not proclaiming that IT IS the best, it's different for each person
The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread!
#2421
Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:54 AM
Haha, cliches are everywhereeeeeeee dude. But yeah, you may have come across some awesome manga/anime too xD. I'm just expressing how I personally feel it's been the best for me. Not proclaiming that IT IS the best, it's different for each person

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2422
Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:57 AM
But to me, Kishi doesn't even try to hide the fact that they are cliches. Every book, movie, video game, has cliches but it's how they interact with other characters/environment that truly make it what it is.
I do recommend reading and watching other things though, which I'm sure you already do. I just think it's awesome to be able to incorporate everything you learn into this subject.

#2423
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:12 AM

#2424
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:16 AM
My favorite anime and manga of all time. Glad someone slipped that into this conversation.
Anyway they will. The people who comment on the Viz Anime website are terrible to say the least, and Youtube is right there behind it. I'm glad I just follow the links on this forum instead of what I used to.

#2425
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:18 AM

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2426
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:24 AM
#2427
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:27 AM
Exactly... plus the animators aren't even that bad -.- The Kyuubi Naruto slapping Sakura episode at the bridge WAS horrible animation I'll admit xD. But since then it's been pretty good! And yeah manga canon is all that matters.

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2428
Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:53 AM
FMA characters fit typical shonen character types more closely than Naruto does. (It's too judgmental to call them cliches, when they are merely types that all writers use but put their own spin on them)
FMA relies very heavily on Renaissance Judo-Christian theology. Things you would learn in a college course in Japan or the west. Not that it's not well done, but the characters are more limited in depth and don't stray as far from type than Kishimoto's, plus you have the standard level of female character fan service too in FMA. With basically none for the male characters other than the parody level with Armstrong.
Kishimoto takes the foundation of the types and uses it as a spring board to go in an innovative direction He does surprisingly little fan service of female characters for a shonen manga and does just as much, if not more fan service of male characters-think of how many times we've seen Naruto or Sasuke shirtless vs how many times we've seen Sakura (once- and even then Kishimoto only showed the very top of her breasts- at the hot springs in part 2)
But what really takes Naruto to that top level along with Riyoko Ikeda's Rose of Versailles and Keiji Nakazawa's "I Saw it" and Barefoot Gen is how the concepts explored and questions asked become even more powerful than the characters- it actually ends up adding even more depth to the characters. I can see an attempt at this in FMA but it doesn't quite get to that level. I think it's because the writer tried consciously to do it, rather than with Nakazawa, Ikeda and Kishimoto's works where this happened just in the course of the story- the writer gets swept up by the concepts and the characters do too. The same thing happened with MASH, it begins as a satiric commentary on war and retains this throughout, but in the 8th season with the episode "Dreams" things shift and the concept of how the horrors of war psychologically damage those who serve- even in MASH units, becomes the strongest element in the show, turning the show into a real classic, not just in a popularity sense but in a near literary sense.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#2429
Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:18 AM
FMA relies very heavily on Renaissance Judo-Christian theology. Things you would learn in a college course in Japan or the west. Not that it's not well done, but the characters are more limited in depth and don't stray as far from type than Kishimoto's, plus you have the standard level of female character fan service too in FMA. With basically none for the male characters other than the parody level with Armstrong.
Kishimoto takes the foundation of the types and uses it as a spring board to go in an innovative direction He does surprisingly little fan service of female characters for a shonen manga and does just as much, if not more fan service of male characters-think of how many times we've seen Naruto or Sasuke shirtless vs how many times we've seen Sakura (once- and even then Kishimoto only showed the very top of her breasts- at the hot springs in part 2)
But what really takes Naruto to that top level along with Riyoko Ikeda's Rose of Versailles and Keiji Nakazawa's "I Saw it" and Barefoot Gen is how the concepts explored and questions asked become even more powerful than the characters- it actually ends up adding even more depth to the characters. I can see an attempt at this in FMA but it doesn't quite get to that level. I think it's because the writer tried consciously to do it, rather than with Nakazawa, Ikeda and Kishimoto's works where this happened just in the course of the story- the writer gets swept up by the concepts and the characters do too. The same thing happened with MASH, it begins as a satiric commentary on war and retains this throughout, but in the 8th season with the episode "Dreams" things shift and the concept of how the horrors of war psychologically damage those who serve- even in MASH units, becomes the strongest element in the show, turning the show into a real classic, not just in a popularity sense but in a near literary sense.
I disagree entirely, and I would like to discuss this with you in PM because I feel that this isn't the place or topic to discuss it. Because I think that FMA is more a of literary achievement than Naruto.

#2430
Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:57 AM
Based on life experience, I doubt either of us will change our minds, so better just to agree to disagree. I just don't see it as a constructive debate when we came to our conclusions via our personal backgrounds and experiences in what we've read.
When you go to war, both sides lose totally- Yoko Ono
Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009
#2431
Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:07 AM
Well most people don't give leeway in their arguments anyway, but that doesn't mean it can't be constructive. Otherwise this forum wouldn't exist, and all forms of argument would be useless.

#2432
Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:26 AM
@Yoshimoya- thanks, you put me at ease. If you believe in a good ending, I trust you. Btw, has Kishi written other manga besides Naruto that we could compare?
Oh I watched the anime so I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. I believe Naruto will have a happy ending and will get everything that he wants/strives for. That's his theme this entire series; not giving up and keep doing until you finish it. There was a lot of foreshadowing in the early parts of the manga. The most significant for me was at the first chunin exam when he said he doesn't care being if he would be a genin forever because he'll still be hokage. He's still a genin now and look what he has achieved. He even single-handedly saved konoha from destruction. How can you not be hokage after that? But I wonder whether the promise of a lifetime would be fulfilled...
DK
#2433
Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:27 PM
I don't like FMA , it's nowhere comparable to Naruto in my opinion.
It just shows that each people has different taste - that's the beauty of life! Variety!
#2434
Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:28 PM
I don't like FMA , it's nowhere comparable to Naruto in my opinion.
It just shows that each people has different taste - that's the beauty of life! Variety!
Can't say I really like the idea of a finished anime being compared to an unfinished anime but whatever... I'll hold off final judgement on Naruto until the series is actually finished. Have to say though, one area that FMA/FMA:B has Naruto beaten, without question, is animation.
#2435
Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:31 PM

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2436
Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:03 PM
Personally, I blame Kishi. The content we currently have to discuss has already been discussed to death.
#2437
Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:11 PM
Sigh... I hate how ONE chapter comes once a week then there's like random hiatus everywhere.... Yeah our content has been discussed to death... true that.

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2438
Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:15 PM
#2439
Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:47 AM

^Adam Couple. KPOP couple <3 google them! They're like an anime couple I swear to God. Watch their show. PM me for link :]
#2440
Posted 08 April 2011 - 03:19 AM
He even went on about how sakura was lying about sasuke
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