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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread!


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#2421 Yoshimoya

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:54 AM

QUOTE (TheOmegaMan @ Apr 7 2011, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't get me wrong. I like the story, but it definitely isn't the best I have ever read in the manga/anime category. Not by a long shot. Kishi uses too many cliches, everything is there. That's why I like NaruSaku because it isn't a cliche. He does provide this subtle tone to their relationship.


Haha, cliches are everywhereeeeeeee dude. But yeah, you may have come across some awesome manga/anime too xD. I'm just expressing how I personally feel it's been the best for me. Not proclaiming that IT IS the best, it's different for each person biggrin.gif.

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#2422 Greed-Sama

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:57 AM

QUOTE (Yoshimoya @ Apr 6 2011, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Haha, cliches are everywhereeeeeeee dude. But yeah, you may have come across some awesome manga/anime too xD. I'm just expressing how I personally feel it's been the best for me. Not proclaiming that IT IS the best, it's different for each person biggrin.gif.


But to me, Kishi doesn't even try to hide the fact that they are cliches. Every book, movie, video game, has cliches but it's how they interact with other characters/environment that truly make it what it is.

I do recommend reading and watching other things though, which I'm sure you already do. I just think it's awesome to be able to incorporate everything you learn into this subject.
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#2423 ShippudenGirl

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:12 AM

Might I say Fullmetal Alchemist has one of the most innovative stories I know. Anyway, apart from the little cliché squabble do you guys really think that NH/SS fans will definitely freak over the whole confession thing again? Like for people who just watch the anime. Ugh, there bashing all over again. If anything I hope that the animators don't make it look bad.

#2424 Greed-Sama

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:16 AM

QUOTE (ShippudenGirl @ Apr 6 2011, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Might I say Fullmetal Alchemist has one of the most innovative stories I know.


My favorite anime and manga of all time. Glad someone slipped that into this conversation.

Anyway they will. The people who comment on the Viz Anime website are terrible to say the least, and Youtube is right there behind it. I'm glad I just follow the links on this forum instead of what I used to.
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#2425 Yoshimoya

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:18 AM

Seriously, just ignore those hateful comments and whatnot... It won't do you any good. Just one glance at them and I freak out -.-

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#2426 Living Lavish

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:24 AM

they should portray it exactly how its done in the manga but whatever the animators do it doesn't matter. manga canon is all you should worry about.

#2427 Yoshimoya

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:27 AM

QUOTE (Living Lavish @ Apr 7 2011, 03:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
they should portray it exactly how its done in the manga but whatever the animators do it doesn't matter. manga canon is all you should worry about.


Exactly... plus the animators aren't even that bad -.- The Kyuubi Naruto slapping Sakura episode at the bridge WAS horrible animation I'll admit xD. But since then it's been pretty good! And yeah manga canon is all that matters.

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#2428 ciardha

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:53 AM

QUOTE (ShippudenGirl @ Apr 6 2011, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Might I say Fullmetal Alchemist has one of the most innovative stories I know. Anyway, apart from the little cliché squabble do you guys really think that NH/SS fans will definitely freak over the whole confession thing again? Like for people who just watch the anime. Ugh, there bashing all over again. If anything I hope that the animators don't make it look bad.


FMA characters fit typical shonen character types more closely than Naruto does. (It's too judgmental to call them cliches, when they are merely types that all writers use but put their own spin on them)

FMA relies very heavily on Renaissance Judo-Christian theology. Things you would learn in a college course in Japan or the west. Not that it's not well done, but the characters are more limited in depth and don't stray as far from type than Kishimoto's, plus you have the standard level of female character fan service too in FMA. With basically none for the male characters other than the parody level with Armstrong.

Kishimoto takes the foundation of the types and uses it as a spring board to go in an innovative direction He does surprisingly little fan service of female characters for a shonen manga and does just as much, if not more fan service of male characters-think of how many times we've seen Naruto or Sasuke shirtless vs how many times we've seen Sakura (once- and even then Kishimoto only showed the very top of her breasts- at the hot springs in part 2)

But what really takes Naruto to that top level along with Riyoko Ikeda's Rose of Versailles and Keiji Nakazawa's "I Saw it" and Barefoot Gen is how the concepts explored and questions asked become even more powerful than the characters- it actually ends up adding even more depth to the characters. I can see an attempt at this in FMA but it doesn't quite get to that level. I think it's because the writer tried consciously to do it, rather than with Nakazawa, Ikeda and Kishimoto's works where this happened just in the course of the story- the writer gets swept up by the concepts and the characters do too. The same thing happened with MASH, it begins as a satiric commentary on war and retains this throughout, but in the 8th season with the episode "Dreams" things shift and the concept of how the horrors of war psychologically damage those who serve- even in MASH units, becomes the strongest element in the show, turning the show into a real classic, not just in a popularity sense but in a near literary sense.
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Remember, our hearts are one. Even when we are at war with each other, our hearts are always beating in unison- Yoko Ono 2009

#2429 Greed-Sama

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:18 AM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Apr 6 2011, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
FMA characters fit typical shonen character types more closely than Naruto does. (It's too judgmental to call them cliches, when they are merely types that all writers use but put their own spin on them)

FMA relies very heavily on Renaissance Judo-Christian theology. Things you would learn in a college course in Japan or the west. Not that it's not well done, but the characters are more limited in depth and don't stray as far from type than Kishimoto's, plus you have the standard level of female character fan service too in FMA. With basically none for the male characters other than the parody level with Armstrong.

Kishimoto takes the foundation of the types and uses it as a spring board to go in an innovative direction He does surprisingly little fan service of female characters for a shonen manga and does just as much, if not more fan service of male characters-think of how many times we've seen Naruto or Sasuke shirtless vs how many times we've seen Sakura (once- and even then Kishimoto only showed the very top of her breasts- at the hot springs in part 2)

But what really takes Naruto to that top level along with Riyoko Ikeda's Rose of Versailles and Keiji Nakazawa's "I Saw it" and Barefoot Gen is how the concepts explored and questions asked become even more powerful than the characters- it actually ends up adding even more depth to the characters. I can see an attempt at this in FMA but it doesn't quite get to that level. I think it's because the writer tried consciously to do it, rather than with Nakazawa, Ikeda and Kishimoto's works where this happened just in the course of the story- the writer gets swept up by the concepts and the characters do too. The same thing happened with MASH, it begins as a satiric commentary on war and retains this throughout, but in the 8th season with the episode "Dreams" things shift and the concept of how the horrors of war psychologically damage those who serve- even in MASH units, becomes the strongest element in the show, turning the show into a real classic, not just in a popularity sense but in a near literary sense.


I disagree entirely, and I would like to discuss this with you in PM because I feel that this isn't the place or topic to discuss it. Because I think that FMA is more a of literary achievement than Naruto.
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#2430 ciardha

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:57 AM

QUOTE (TheOmegaMan @ Apr 7 2011, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I disagree entirely, and I would like to discuss this with you in PM because I feel that this isn't the place or topic to discuss it. Because I think that FMA is more a of literary achievement than Naruto.


Based on life experience, I doubt either of us will change our minds, so better just to agree to disagree. I just don't see it as a constructive debate when we came to our conclusions via our personal backgrounds and experiences in what we've read.
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#2431 Greed-Sama

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:07 AM

QUOTE (ciardha @ Apr 6 2011, 11:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Based on life experience, I doubt either of us will change our minds, so better just to agree to disagree. I just don't see it as a constructive debate when we came to our conclusions via our personal backgrounds and experiences in what we've read.


Well most people don't give leeway in their arguments anyway, but that doesn't mean it can't be constructive. Otherwise this forum wouldn't exist, and all forms of argument would be useless.
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#2432 Darth Krypt

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:26 AM

QUOTE (kim @ Apr 7 2011, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope, they didn't in the manga. That was just added in the anime because the fans were complaining.

@Yoshimoya- thanks, you put me at ease. If you believe in a good ending, I trust you. Btw, has Kishi written other manga besides Naruto that we could compare?


Oh I watched the anime so I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. I believe Naruto will have a happy ending and will get everything that he wants/strives for. That's his theme this entire series; not giving up and keep doing until you finish it. There was a lot of foreshadowing in the early parts of the manga. The most significant for me was at the first chunin exam when he said he doesn't care being if he would be a genin forever because he'll still be hokage. He's still a genin now and look what he has achieved. He even single-handedly saved konoha from destruction. How can you not be hokage after that? But I wonder whether the promise of a lifetime would be fulfilled...

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#2433 Madz

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 02:27 PM

Shrug.
I don't like FMA , it's nowhere comparable to Naruto in my opinion. tongue.gif And I'm not the only one - Tons of my friends / entourage do not care for FMA at all.
It just shows that each people has different taste - that's the beauty of life! Variety!

#2434 Zin

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (Madz @ Apr 7 2011, 02:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shrug.
I don't like FMA , it's nowhere comparable to Naruto in my opinion. tongue.gif And I'm not the only one - Tons of my friends / entourage do not care for FMA at all.
It just shows that each people has different taste - that's the beauty of life! Variety!

Can't say I really like the idea of a finished anime being compared to an unfinished anime but whatever... I'll hold off final judgement on Naruto until the series is actually finished. Have to say though, one area that FMA/FMA:B has Naruto beaten, without question, is animation.
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#2435 Yoshimoya

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:31 PM

Lol enough guys, this is the NARUSAKU Debate thread, NOT the NARUTO vs. FMA Debate thread. Present more topics to about discuss our favorite couple again please :]

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#2436 Zin

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:03 PM

QUOTE (Yoshimoya @ Apr 7 2011, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol enough guys, this is the NARUSAKU Debate thread, NOT the NARUTO vs. FMA Debate thread. Present more topics to about discuss our favorite couple again please :]

Personally, I blame Kishi. The content we currently have to discuss has already been discussed to death.
"I've always equated "feelings" with "getting caught"...they both get in the way of my money. Unfortunately not everyone is as committed to their work as I am." - Garrett, Thief:TMA

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Anna: "The Maria Narcissa."
Sam: "Sounds like you're setting me up for another blind date."
Anna: "The Maria Narcissa is a boat."
Sam: "So was the last girl you set me up with."
Anna: "Fisher!"
Sam: "Sorry." - Anna Grímsdóttir and Sam Fisher, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

#2437 Yoshimoya

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:11 PM

QUOTE (Zin @ Apr 7 2011, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I blame Kishi. The content we currently have to discuss has already been discussed to death.


Sigh... I hate how ONE chapter comes once a week then there's like random hiatus everywhere.... Yeah our content has been discussed to death... true that.

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#2438 Akashi

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:15 PM

We can discuss the new ep we've all been waiting for + the new OP/ED which, to tell the truth, was really disappointing.

#2439 Yoshimoya

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:47 AM

Yeah, it was whatever.. They only relate to the arc and emotions involved in them. I think they captured it alright, but I don't really put much thought into it since it doesn't really affect what's actually going on in the manga or anime.

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#2440 hothead

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 03:19 AM

I'm pretty happy about todays anime chapter, it was ok and i'm glad they didn't mess it up as bad as i thought they would, i mean, my dad is a 'hardcore' naruhina fan and he saw that sakura's confesion was a genuine one....
He even went on about how sakura was lying about sasuke happy.gif
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