19964 replies to this topic

[PachucoDesigns]

What do you mean? Me being an NS fan has nothing to do with my opinion of Hinata's confession. It doesn't change my view.

Sure it doesn't. Something tells me you were a NS fan long before Hinata made the confession.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 12 July 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[pharix]

Every NS fan I've ever met thinks that her confession was self-centered and reckless. Funny, because they seem to be the only fans who do.

why would a NH fan think Hinata's confession was self-centered and reckless?

[Codus N]

6 tails would have happen with anyone for the record. That's a fact especially when he declared it himself saying that he don't anyone to die and went to drastic measure to stop Pain. Again, Hinata was set to go there for her character to finally get a closure (which we got in the war arc). As for Sakura, Tsunade did tell her to leave him for he has to think over the loss. The best option was to meet a father-like figure (Iruka) who also lost his loved one. Same as Shikamaru for his lost ones. Besides Sakura was there for every moment that he's planning. She even saw him leave with one good luck support.

The whole invasion arc was like closure for Konoha feeling on Naruto. Everyone got one (almost) and Kishi had Sakura to hug him because couple of reasons. One is that she was very worried and she didn't know what was going to happen. She was reported that he turned Kyuubi and she was trying her best to stay calm and support the people around her. To me, that's strong for her to handle. The other one is that Naruto was being rewarded by the village who once hated him. He gained huge respect, kids love him, and then she came to him, hitting him for making her feel fear. This is common when it comes to building romance couple, especially the next step, the hug. The whole village saw it and yeah, it would seem appropriate for them to get together. The reactions were priceless.

Well, looks like I went over your questions. Ended up writing more than I've expected.

Yes, the hug was pretty big but probably, from my view, it can still be about Sakura being glad about him being safe in a platonic way. I won't doubt it's significant, but it's not anywhere as significant to Hinata's confession.

[PachucoDesigns]

why would a NH fan think Hinata's confession was self-centered and reckless?

Exactly. And NH fans are not the only fans out there. Just your enemy camp.

[Codus N]

Sorry but if you like myself have been following the story and NaruSaku we know Kishi always use some kind of excuse to block Naruto from being close to Sakura, there is always an interruption.

Their first kiss chapter 3.
The date after his return from the 2 years and and half.
Her concern with the Kyuubi stuff in 261.
Sai's question.
Yamato's speech.
Her confession (I can tell you this from the bottom of my) cut off.
After all that crap in Summit when she tries to approach him that precise moment the poisoned Kunai start taking effect.
Trying to comfort him when Jiraiya die, but stopped by Tsunade.
The feeding scene
After they return from Summit Kishi use the excuse that she needed to tell everyone that Tsunade was awake from her coma just to avoid Naruto and Sakura spending time together after her confession. And the last straw after he rescues her in 558 the scene was cut off the scnede without them speaking.

So the question is not why Sakura didn't is why Kishi always creat something to block thier way.

Bolded: yeah, that's about it.

[Paptala]

We know this but after she put her teammates to sleep she started some improvisations, she wanted to talk with sasuke first she did not believe that he was on akatsuki and was evil.( this show her stubborn side)
She mean to kill sasuke but when she started with improvisations she wasnt clearly what she was going to do, even with kakashi saying that she wanted to kill sasuke she had her doubts i think deep inside she knew that she would not be able to kill sasuke and what bothers me is if she knew that she could not kill sasuke why she go at the first place?
Kill herself?

She wanted to end naruto's suffering but at what cost? her life?
would naruto dont suffer if something happens to her?

She didn't try to improvise with Sasuke at all - she went there, knowing Sasuke was stronger than her. She obviously meant to deceive him, let her get close (in proximity) to him without him getting suspicious, and then stab him in the back at the first available opportunity.

She clearly thought after the second failed attempt to kill him, "I thought I could do it" - she never knew that she would choke at that last minute, and had she not, odds are that she would have landed that second blow (because she smartly took advantage of Sasuke's moment of weakness).

Again, what happened to Sasuke and herself didn't matter - she fully anticipated that Naruto would hate her for doing what she was doing.

THIS thank you Paptala it's that hard for people to understand how much Sakura cares for Naruto and what's she's willing to do in order to protect him. The lengths she's willing to go through to put him out of harm's way (including the possibility that he might hate her for taking the decision to kill Sasuke). It makes me laugh that NH and SS fans likewise think that her confession was" selfish" if we compare it to Hinata's confession that she made it clear herself that SHE was being selfish. Compare to Sakura she was ONLY thinking of Naruto, his feelings etc she NEVER thought about herself and what she wants. She did what she did to protect Naruto from Sasuke, from Akatsuki and that was all when she found out from Sai of the pain he was going through because of Sasuke and the POALT, also when Sai said that she was the one contributing to that pain. She didn't hesitated when Shikamaru mentioned to take care of Sasuke as in killing him, her thoughts and her all were on Naruto no one else.

Exactly - its one of the most ironic things that Sakura's confession is the one bashed and Hinata's praised, when Sakura's is selfless and for Naruto's benefit, and Hinata's is selfish and for her own benefit.

This isn't even interpretation - the characters practically spell it out themselves in words.

Completely understand, but I think Ryuken's point was why did she do that?? if she knew what would that entail, then why did she do it anyways?? not only that, we saw that in chapter 459 she vowed not to make anymore mistakes. Wouldn't she have thought of a better plan?? this is what I think Ryuken's asking about.

Sakura did it because she discovered/believed that"

a) Naruto is suffering emotionally because of the burden of the POAL
b) Naruto is suffering emotionally because of Sasuke
c) Shikamaru told her Sasuke can no longer be saved
d) Naruto is putting himself in danger by continually chasing after Sasuke
e) Shikamaru told her Sasuke needs to be stopped for Naruto's sake and the shinobi world as a whole
d) She doesn't want to put any more burdens on Naruto's shoulders
e) She cannot let Naruto take the burden of killing Sasuke on to himself

Sakura was just told a lot of incredibly heavy stuff about both of her teammates, Sai is telling her she needs to stop relying on Naruto and that she needs to do something, and Shikamaru is telling her the rookies have decided to kill Sasuke. So not only was she emotionally off balance, she had little time to act.

She is human, she is going to make mistakes, even if she actively doing her best not to make one. It's done for reasons of plot and character development. It doesn't mean that Sakura doesn't love Naruto.

And most of all, she's the FREAKIN' HEROINE!! aren't heroines created so that people look up to them too?? then why did Kishi destroy her?? that's all I'm asking for. Is it wrong for me to ask for her to actually accomplish something big for the hero?? that's all.

If Kishi is the heroine he makes her out to be, wouldn't she have more "heroic" feats?? especially when it comes to the hero??

Kishi didn't destroy her though - he made clear that she was acting selflessly and in Naruto's best interest, as well as the best interests of the shinobi world. Both Kakashi and Shikamaru thought that Sasuke needed to die, and that he couldn't be saved anymore, and though they acknowledged the pain it would cause Naruto, they still felt that it needed to be done.

Sakura is one of the people in the manga who has done the most for Naruto. She was one of the people who saved him from the hell of loneliness, she was the one person to be most consistently by his side in part 2 (and a lot of part 1), and Naruto stated himself that this makes him happy. Sakura also ran right up to KN4 Naruto in order to try and help him, and then when he attacked her in that state, not only did she not hold it against him at all (or even act afraid of him afterward), she was busy lamenting that she couldn't do enough to help him. Sure it would be great to see Sakura doing big, flashy heroic feats like she did in her Sasori fight, but her subtle efforts for Naruto are just as, if not even more, important to Naruto and Sakura's relationship.

CONTINUING RESPONSE TO RYUKEN

2. Sakura hit Naruto lololol. before you blame me, let me remind you that i dont hate tsundere character. the problem is, i believed (while being narusaku fan) that sakura did that to keep naruto in line. but my faith on her ruined by this
sakura hit konohamaru

the dissappointing part to me was the fact that sakura has not only hit naruto. and the worse part is that she didnt hit konohamaru for the boy on boy jutsu. wot.gif
and then, come to this this.
sakura hit sai

hitting sai for insulting her is somehow acceptable to me. but hitting him for calling ino bautifull. well .. ummm .. im speechless

conclusion: i expected her rough action towards naruto is a good sign for their relationship. but later, i cant help but thinking that i expected too much

It was never the argument that Sakura hitting Naruto was proof that she liked him. The argument was that Sakura hitting Naruto didn't mean that she doesn't like him.

Sakura's hitting moments are all meant to be comedic - if that kind of comedy is not to your taste, that's fine, but it's certainly not anything that can be taken as a serious detriment to the pairing's chances of becoming canon.

3. pain invasion. look at this
take notice of the duration
the fact is hinata has jumped in to the fight for quite a while. but sakura didnt notice before the hyuuga guy told her. Im not saying that she should have jumped in. but the dissappointing fact is that Sakura could have follow the fight via the hyuuga guy or katsuyu. naruto might get killed but she DID NOT FOLLOW THE FIGHT.
conclusion: if sameone you love being in crucial moment, even if you have faith on him/her, you will atleast wondering how is she/he doing. you get my point here

Sakura had no clue that Naruto was in danger - she was given a general update from the Hyuuga that she was with. Sakura would not have been able to help Naruto or assist him at all - thus she was doing what she was able to do - saving and healing villagers, then evacuating them and trying to find Yamato once she saw that Naruto had transformed.

It was smart, and she was doing the best that she could to help Naruto in the way that she could actually make a difference.

4. confession at the tent
take notice what the guy said
if sakura's love for naruto has grown, atleast she would thinking this way "a great guy you say.... sasuke is a criminal. but naruto is a hero you know .. {smiling face}" but. as you can see, it didnt happen

If Sakura hasn't recognized her feelings for Naruto as romantic love though (as her reaction to Yamato's words would indicate, and one of her data book entries outright states), then she wouldn't think of Naruto at that point. She is still associating romantic love as what she feels for Sasuke - it is the only feeling she has ever associated with romantic love, regardless of the fact that her feelings for Naruto have been depicted as deeper and stronger and more selfless (shown through her selfless actions towards him, and her continuously prioritizing Naruto over Sasuke).

5. NARUTO IS NARUTO his bond with sasuke is as strong as with sakura. THE HELL he will stop chasing sasuke, even sakura asking him. THE HELL he put "winning sakura" to his gutsiness list, hes not that selfish. THE HELL he recognized sakura as 12-13 years old fangirl, he understand her well. THE HELL he can become hokage if he can't even save a friend because of HIS BELOVED HEROINE asking him to stop.

Um - this point I don't understand at all. Of course he cares for Sasuke and Sakura equally - of course he's not going to chose one over the other. That doesn't mean that he's not in love with Sakura. Naruto's goals in part two are clearly pointed out by Yamato before the first reunion with Sasuke - saving Sasuke, and protecting Sakura.

And again, of course Naruto didn't put Sakura on his list of goals - she is not a trophy to be won for Naruto, not a goal post to attain and check off on his to do list. He wants for Sakura to be safe and happy, and is clearly doing everything in his power to make that happy. Her feelings take priority over his own, and it simply shows how much he cares about her. Which is why he doesn't even want to confess to Sakura, to even just tell her how he feels, until he fulfills the POAL - basically, until after the situation with Sasuke is resolved.

[sushi.]

Sure it doesn't. Something tells me you were a NS fan long before Hinata made the confession.

I was an NS fan long before I liked Sakura's confession, I read it over and over again. But when I found out about the lie, I thought she was a sh*tty character. The point is, it's not fair to like a confession just because you like the character. I can accept that Sakura does mistakes, she's not a godess. I feel like many NH fans refuse to think Hinata has done anything wrong.

[PachucoDesigns]

I was an NS fan long before I liked Sakura's confession, I read it over and over again. But when I found out about the lie, I thought she was a sh*tty character. The point is, it's not fair to like a confession just because you like the character. I can accept that Sakura does mistakes, she's not a godess. I feel like many NH fans refuse to think Hinata has done anything wrong.

Uh-huh. Just like most NS fans refuse to think Sakura has done anything wrong. In fact, I'm willing to guarantee you that nearly every member of this site will disagree with Sakura's confession being a lie, and in quite heated manner, I might add. The most to which I have ever seen them concede was that it was bad timing. Hinata's confession was desperate and rushed. Sakura's confession, if holding any truth, was tactless and poorly thought out. Both of them have their faults, but both of them had their hearts in the right place. Both camps want to blame the other character for being malicious or stupid, and it's ridiculous.

[Don-kun]

Yes, the hug was pretty big but probably, from my view, it can still be about Sakura being glad about him being safe in a platonic way. I won't doubt it's significant, but it's not anywhere as significant to Hinata's confession.

Now Codus N you're really starting to worry me,

Hinata confession yes she wanted to help but her confession is no where near the level of concern Sakura shows for Naruto, Sakura running to a K4, her talk with Yamato after K4 even, her crying the way she did after Sai's revelation, her meaning behind her confession, come on only a NH fan will think that way Sakura is worry about Naruto she put him 1st, people focus on Hinata's heroic actions and the fact that she was the only one there to help him, but no one try to see that she was willing to die, but needed to get her feeling for him out of her chest before the both die, and the words she say herself imply that she was being selfish.
Hinata likes Naruto she will give her life for him just like how all his friends would do for him, the problem is that she herself said that she wanted to make Naruto hers, not win his heart, Naruto say maybe he can make Sakura start liking me, Hinata say she want Naruto to be hers she wanted to over take him, that line is from her confession, now after the war she will be his girlfriend, honestly how no one can see how selfish she is.

[PachucoDesigns]

Now Codus N you're really starting to worry me,

Hinata confession yes she wanted to help but her confession is no where near the level of concern Sakura shows for Naruto, Sakura running to a K4, her talk with Yamato after K4 even, her crying the way she did after Sai's revelation, her meaning behind her confession, come on only a NH fan will think that way Sakura is worry about Naruto she put him 1st, people focus on Hinata's heroic actions and the fact that she was the only one there to help him, but no one try to see that she was willing to die, but needed to get her feeling for him out of her chest before the both die, and the words she say herself imply that she was being selfish.
Hinata likes Naruto she will give her life for him just like how all his friends would do for him, the problem is that she herself said that she wanted to make Naruto hers, not win his heart, Naruto say maybe he can make Sakura start liking me, Hinata say she want Naruto to be hers she wanted to over take him, that line is from her confession, now after the war she will be his girlfriend, honestly how no one can see how selfish she is.

During her confession, Hinata sacrificed her life trying to save his. However fruitless it was, she kept trying to free him. What exactly could she have done that could possibly show more concern? You seriously think she went down there only with the intention of confessing, having absolutely no care at all whether or not she was able to save him or safeguard her own life in the process? Do you seriously think that she would deliberately risk her life if she only saw him as a prize to be had, a possession? That is absurd.

Here is a perfect example for you, sushi.

[Codus N]

Sakura did it because she discovered/believed that"

a) Naruto is suffering emotionally because of the burden of the POAL
b) Naruto is suffering emotionally because of Sasuke
c) Shikamaru told her Sasuke can no longer be saved
d) Naruto is putting himself in danger by continually chasing after Sasuke
e) Shikamaru told her Sasuke needs to be stopped for Naruto's sake and the shinobi world as a whole
d) She doesn't want to put any more burdens on Naruto's shoulders
e) She cannot let Naruto take the burden of killing Sasuke on to himself

Sakura was just told a lot of incredibly heavy stuff about both of her teammates, Sai is telling her she needs to stop relying on Naruto and that she needs to do something, and Shikamaru is telling her the rookies have decided to kill Sasuke. So not only was she emotionally off balance, she had little time to act.

She is human, she is going to make mistakes, even if she actively doing her best not to make one. It's done for reasons of plot and character development. It doesn't mean that Sakura doesn't love Naruto.


Kishi didn't destroy her though - he made clear that she was acting selflessly and in Naruto's best interest, as well as the best interests of the shinobi world. Both Kakashi and Shikamaru thought that Sasuke needed to die, and that he couldn't be saved anymore, and though they acknowledged the pain it would cause Naruto, they still felt that it needed to be done.


Sakura is one of the people in the manga who has done the most for Naruto. She was one of the people who saved him from the hell of loneliness, she was the one person to be most consistently by his side in part 2 (and a lot of part 1), and Naruto stated himself that this makes him happy. Sakura also ran right up to KN4 Naruto in order to try and help him, and then when he attacked her in that state, not only did she not hold it against him at all (or even act afraid of him afterward), she was busy lamenting that she couldn't do enough to help him. Sure it would be great to see Sakura doing big, flashy heroic feats like she did in her Sasori fight, but her subtle efforts for Naruto are just as, if not even more, important to Naruto and Sakura's relationship.

Bolded: but that's the problem, Kishi made her too human. Yes, humans can make mistakes. But humans can also make big successes. So, why haven't there been any successes from her regarding Naruto?? I get the subtlety of her achievements, but I would like there to be that one moment where she hits the jackpot and actually succeed for real. For example saying something big to push Naruto forward. In fact, I've seen other mangas where the girl is subtly successful and explicitly. So why can't it be like that?? there's no balance to her character.

As for the confession, you can't deny that she was manipulating Naruto, however pure her intentions are. But the fact remains that it puts her in a bad light. Manipulating him is no problem, but taking advantage of his love for her?? that's the worst way to go. There had to be better alternatives, hell, if she wanted to, she could've asked Shikamaru for his input on what she should tell him. Instead, she made the same mistakes Naruto did, not trusting anyone. Granted, even now Naruto is doing that, but Sakura is supposed to be smart, right?? so why didn't she??

[Codus N]

Now Codus N you're really starting to worry me,

Hinata confession yes she wanted to help but her confession is no where near the level of concern Sakura shows for Naruto, Sakura running to a K4, her talk with Yamato after K4 even, her crying the way she did after Sai's revelation, her meaning behind her confession, come on only a NH fan will think that way Sakura is worry about Naruto she put him 1st, people focus on Hinata's heroic actions and the fact that she was the only one there to help him, but no one try to see that she was willing to die, but needed to get her feeling for him out of her chest before the both die, and the words she say herself imply that she was being selfish.
Hinata likes Naruto she will give her life for him just like how all his friends would do for him, the problem is that she herself said that she wanted to make Naruto hers, not win his heart, Naruto say maybe he can make Sakura start liking me, Hinata say she want Naruto to be hers she wanted to over take him, that line is from her confession, now after the war she will be his girlfriend, honestly how no one can see how selfish she is.

Did you think I forgot those moments?? no. But think about it, a confession compared to a hug, which one would look bigger?? even as an Asian, the confession definitely looks bigger to me. But yes, I agree about her selfishness. But, in a way, wouldn't Sakura also be selfish with her confession by not taking into account of Naruto's feelings??

Sorry for the double post.

[PachucoDesigns]

I seriously do not understand the mindset of anyone who partakes in this pairing war, and where they are getting their ridiculous assumptions from. I'm blamed for "taking fictional characters too seriously," yet everyone I've ever met in either part of this war seems to think that the nemesis to their preferred heroine has a mind that's just bubbling with conniving, unspoken ulterior motives. These are fictional characters. They are marionettes, puppets on Kishimoto's strings. Everything they do, say or think is at his sole discretion. When have you ever seen any of his characters, even the minor ones, plotting treachery that was not directly explained, verbally, in context? Cherry picking small parts of quotes, which probably don't even translate quite right, to label a character's entire motivation or "plan." "Hinata is selfish, she just wants to win over Naruto!" Really? Do you seriously think Kishimoto spent hours upon hours drawing these frames with the deliberate intention of evoking emotional response, all the while rubbing his hands together with an evil grin just to give Hinata some petty goal like that? Do you think the anime would have spent time drawing thousands of frames for that? It's ridiculous. And every time I hear these nonsensical theories, it makes me want to pull my hair out.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I seriously do not understand the mindset of anyone who partakes in this pairing war, and where they are getting their ridiculous assumptions from. I'm blamed for "taking fictional characters too seriously," yet everyone I've ever met in either part of this war seems to think that the nemesis to their preferred heroine has a mind that's just bubbling with conniving, unspoken ulterior motives. These are fictional characters. They are marionettes, puppets on Kishimoto's strings. Everything they do, say or think is at his sole discretion. When have you ever seen any of his characters, even the minor ones, plotting treachery that was not directly explained, verbally, in context? Cherry picking small parts of quotes, which probably don't even translate quite right, to label a character's entire motivation or "plan." "Hinata is selfish, she just wants to win over Naruto!" Really? Do you seriously think Kishimoto spent hours upon hours drawing these frames with the deliberate intention of evoking emotional response, all the while rubbing his hands together with an evil grin just to give Hinata some petty goal like that? Do you think the anime would have spent time drawing thousands of frames for that? It's ridiculous. And every time I hear these nonsensical theories, it makes me want to pull my hair out.

Well I never use that type of excuses. I only acknowledge it and still think nothing will change. Again, it is about Naruto and he's a guy who writes everything in stone. Nothing will change that UNLESS Kishi have the courtesy to break a rule or two for Naruto. There is no exception. The game changer has always been Sakura. That's the truth.

[Don-kun]

@PachucoDesigns

I like your spirit, but I go by Manga fact and the Manga told me that Hinata already know she wasn't any match for Pain, the Manga told me that Hinata herself say that she was been selfish, the Manga show me that Hinata didn't try to help him or come up with a plan to free him, the Manga told me Hinata's desire and regrets to be at his side and not over taking him before she say I always follow you wanting to overtake you, and lastly the Manga show me that after her confession she got one shot by Pain, did she criticize herself for not being able to save him on being too weak for Pain? NO Again did she feel she could defeat Pain? Did she feel she would die? Yes Did she know Naruto will tranform into a Kyuubi? No
Try to add that up.
If Hinata did try to do all what she did without the confession, I'm pretty sure Naruto would of thanked her 150 chapters ago and then she could explain him why she was willing to risk her life for him, her confession at that time was her last word and she wanted Naruto to know before they both die.

Did you think I forgot those moments?? no. But think about it, a confession compared to a hug, which one would look bigger?? even as an Asian, the confession definitely looks bigger to me. But yes, I agree about her selfishness. But, in a way, wouldn't Sakura also be selfish with her confession by not taking into account of Naruto's feelings??

Sorry for the double post.

No I don't tink she was selfish, by her wanting to kill the man she love for Naruto's safety was selfless.
I think her actions was very stupid and emotionally weak.

Selfish hell no, she wasn't gating any benefit from killing Sasuke more than keeping Naruto safe, plus the fact that she was willing to start a relationship with Naruto even when she was not fully over Sasuke, just for Naruto to be happy and safe.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Well I never use that type of excuses. I only acknowledge it and still think nothing will change. Again, it is about Naruto and he's a guy who writes everything in stone. Nothing will change that UNLESS Kishi have the courtesy to break a rule or two for Naruto. There is no exception. The game changer has always been Sakura. That's the truth.

Yes, exactly. And he also has a tendency to speak plainly. Even the goals of his most sinister villains are, at one point, made perfectly clear without mincing words or leaving room for speculation. If he did not deliberately say something about a character's selfishness, pettiness or plans for manipulation, you are safe assuming that no such thing is going through that character's head. Nothing is going through the character's head. It is going through Kishimoto's head, no one else's. Why would he spend so much time artfully making the shining points of his protagonists' personalities shine through, doing what he can to make you like the characters with whom he means you to sympathize, and to make you hate the characters who have nothing but malicious intent, if he wanted you to start speculating about their unspoken selfishness? Pairing shippers see what they want to see, they make connections that aren't there, and they act as apologists for anything and everything for or against their favored pairing and heroine. And it gets extremely annoying. That's why there is no proper debate here, because there are so many people here guilty of that very thing.

I like your spirit, but I go by Manga fact and the Manga told me that Hinata already know she wasn't any match for Pain, the Manga told me that Hinata herself say that she was been selfish, the Manga show me that Hinata didn't try to help him or come up with a plan to free him, the Manga told me Hinata's desire and regrets to be at his side and not over taking him before she say I always follow you wanting to overtake you, and lastly the Manga show me that after her confession she got one shot by Pain, did she criticize herself for not being able to save him on being too weak for Pain? NO Again did she feel she could defeat Pain? Did she feel she would die? Yes Did she know Naruto will tranform into a Kyuubi? No
Try to add that up.
If Hinata did try to do all what she did without the confession, I'm pretty sure Naruto would of thanked her 150 chapters ago and then she could explain him why she was willing to risk her life for him, her confession at that time was her last word and she wanted Naruto to know before they both die.

And this is exactly the kind of false connection and apologetics I'm talking about. Once again, "overtake you" is very likely a phrase that didn't translate quite right. And even if it does, the most it could really mean is the desire to win his heart. And if you find her selfish for this, then both Naruto and Sakura are guilty of the same thing. Sakura was guilty of it concerning Sasuke, and Naruto is still guilty of it concerning Sakura. If you're going to fault Hinata for this, then you would also have to fault them for the same thing. And are you telling me that she should have just kept her distance because she knew she couldn't win, or because she couldn't have know that the Kyuubi would turn the tables? Having seen your entire village flattened by a single aggressor, and having been absolutely powerless to stop it, when you are about to see the love of your life dragged off to what is sure to be his horrible torture and doom, would you not do at least everything you could to stop it? And don't give me this "she should have trusted him, he said for everyone to stay out of it" nonsense. If I had a friend who ran in to save his child from a burning building and told me to stay outside because he didn't want me to get hurt, and if I saw him trapped under a burning beam and about to be swallowed up by the flames, do you really think I would just stand there and watch him burn alive because he told me not to get involved? Get real.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 12 July 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Tendo Ryuken]

@ NS means logic
im not finished yet. there will be 'debate stuffs' part 2 . on part 1 i show you guys the reason for me to lost faith in narusaku. of course its all about what sakura didnt since naruto's selfless love for sakura is a fact to me

@ codus_N
am i a swing voter? hmm.well, i thought im a naruhina fans and was a narusaku fans. but i think i should reconsider my mind. (PS. ntar bro w balas pesan u)

@everyone
thnx for the responses guys. i really appreciate it .this is my thought

case#1 i can see that you guys agreed that sakura knew about the bond. and as codus_N said, the problem was sakura's decision to ask naruto to stop chasing sasuke. actually there is a certain point when sakura finally can understand this

naruto confront sasuke --Click here to view--

http://i10.mangareader.net/naruto/487/naruto-1242678.jpg

for narusaku's sake, for all the time sakura spent with naruto. why didnt she realize it sooner?
(ps. dovahkiin mentioned about hinata's pov about this case. but since my debate stuffs part 1 focused on narusaku, ill answer it on part 2)

It was never the argument that Sakura hitting Naruto was proof that she liked him. The argument was that Sakura hitting Naruto didn't mean that she doesn't like him.

hmm. i think you are right. may be because i like 'love hit' my opinion got biased

Sakura's hitting moments are all meant to be comedic - if that kind of comedy is not to your taste, that's fine, but it's certainly not anything that can be taken as a serious detriment to the pairing's chances of becoming canon.

not my taste? lol i love seeing akane hit ranma with a giant table. its funny

Sakura had no clue that Naruto was in danger - she was given a general update from the Hyuuga that she was with. Sakura would not have been able to help Naruto or assist him at all - thus she was doing what she was able to do - saving and healing villagers, then evacuating them and trying to find Yamato once she saw that Naruto had transformed.

bolded if she really cared for naruto. she should have asked the hyuuga guy to give her more detail. the duration between hinata jumped to the fight and naruto went kyubi mode (then sakura asked the hyuuga guy what happened) is about 3-5 minutes. this is this '3-5 minutes' i was talking about.
italic she did that before giant shinra tensei.
underlined as you said, she did that after naruto's transformation
what the hell 3-5 minutes make difference? yes, because it was fight between life and death. and the worst scenario is the she wasnt following the fight even before hinata jumped

If Sakura hasn't recognized her feelings for Naruto as romantic love though (as her reaction to Yamato's words would indicate, and one of her data book entries outright states), then she wouldn't think of Naruto at that point. She is still associating romantic love as what she feels for Sasuke - it is the only feeling she has ever associated with romantic love, regardless of the fact that her feelings for Naruto have been depicted as deeper and stronger and more selfless (shown through her selfless actions towards him, and her continuously prioritizing Naruto over Sasuke).

this way you are stating that her confession was really fake. i cant agree with you at this point

Um - this point I don't understand at all. Of course he cares for Sasuke and Sakura equally - of course he's not going to chose one over the other. That doesn't mean that he's not in love with Sakura. Naruto's goals in part two are clearly pointed out by Yamato before the first reunion with Sasuke - saving Sasuke, and protecting Sakura.

And again, of course Naruto didn't put Sakura on his list of goals - she is not a trophy to be won for Naruto, not a goal post to attain and check off on his to do list. He wants for Sakura to be safe and happy, and is clearly doing everything in his power to make that happy. Her feelings take priority over his own, and it simply shows how much he cares about her. Which is why he doesn't even want to confess to Sakura, to even just tell her how he feels, until he fulfills the POAL - basically, until after the situation with Sasuke is resolved.

actually. i wanted to tell this to sakura. and a few of narusaku fans who believed that naruto must win sakura because of his ninja way to never give up

[Codus N]

@PachucoDesigns

I like your spirit, but I go by Manga fact and the Manga told me that Hinata already know she wasn't any match for Pain, the Manga told me that Hinata herself say that she was been selfish, the Manga show me that Hinata didn't try to help him or come up with a plan to free him, the Manga told me Hinata's desire and regrets to be at his side and not over taking him before she say I always follow you wanting to overtake you, and lastly the Manga show me that after her confession she got one shot by Pain, did she criticize herself for not being able to save him on being too weak for Pain? NO Again did she feel she could defeat Pain? Did she feel she would die? Yes Did she know Naruto will tranform into a Kyuubi? No
Try to add that up.
If Hinata did try to do all what she did without the confession, I'm pretty sure Naruto would of thanked her 150 chapters ago and then she could explain him why she was willing to risk her life for him, her confession at that time was her last word and she wanted Naruto to know before they both die.



No I don't tink she was selfish, by her wanting to kill the man she love for Naruto's safety was selfless.
I think her actions was very stupid and emotionally weak.

Selfish hell no, she wasn't gating any benefit from killing Naruto more than keeping Naruto safe, plus the fact that she was willing to start a relationship with Naruto even when she was not fully over Sasuke, just for Naruto to be happy and safe.

What I meant was selfish in the sense that she took advantage of his feelings. She didn't take into account of his feelings. I don't think she was seeking any selfish benefits from it, but she was selfish that she didn't even think of his feelings. Sai confirmed she did, but then wouldn't she have thought of a better way?? if she was just being honest from the start, I could see it ending up like Graven's fic, and the fallout would be better.

[PachucoDesigns]

What I meant was selfish in the sense that she took advantage of his feelings. She didn't take into account of his feelings. I don't think she was seeking any selfish benefits from it, but she was selfish that she didn't even think of his feelings. Sai confirmed she did, but then wouldn't she have thought of a better way?? if she was just being honest from the start, I could see it ending up like Graven's fic, and the fallout would be better.

Yes, and that was a selfish attempt to manipulate. But it was also spelled out deliberately before it happened. "I will tell him. After all, the fool is in love with me." She intended to tell him because he is in love with her. Ergo, it would be best to hear it from her because he loves her. Ergo, she was the one he made the promise to. Ergo, she thought she'd be able to sway his feelings. Even if she thought it was for his own good, and even if she in any way meant what she said, it was manipulation plain and simple. The story spelled it out for you plainly right before it happened, leaving no room at all for speculation or garbage apologetics.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 12 July 2012 - 05:37 PM.

[Codus N]

Yes. Now that I think about it, her trying to manipulate him for his sake might even be similar to the Moon's Eye plan. Tobi is manipulating everyone for their own good, in his mind.

Hmmm..... I wonder if Tobi would know of this. I could see him attacking her verbally and mentally how she's not so different than him in a sense. I think that would be a moment where we find out no matter what he says, she loves him no matter what. In fact, I even think it might even be a plot point in the movie. That, to me, would be crowning moment of glory.