4869 replies to this topic

[Jenskott]

Wow. I thought they liked her for her sweet personality?

That is their claim. But I seriously doubt it.

My theory is that all the NH shippers are really shy and timid boys/girls who want to see a character they sympathize with grow a backbone -- that part I can understand -- but then they take it farther. This is where the pairing wars come in.

Good theory. My own hypotesis is they like Hinata because she is like they were. And then they want she becomes how they would have liked becoming.

Right like the herd of Naruto "fans" write fanfics where Naruto is an arrogant jerk who constantly berates Team 7, wields vast powers of unholy realms and has a harem of hot chicks (usually all Naruto women the author likes or finds hot) and mercilessly punishes the people slighted him. They -allegedly- like Naruto and want living vicariously in his universe through him. But how they don't like his personality or they don't want having that kind of personality, they change it.

But personally I hate the character they depict in those stories. That character isn't Naruto, it will NEVER be, and I'm most grateful for it.

Fandom rape.

More accurate words never were talked.

The NH fans almost made me hate the poor girl solely with their annoying raving.

It gets very tiresome, but I refuse hating characters, and I refuse indulging myself in character bashing. When all is said and done, they are FICTIONAL characters. They DON'T exist. They are NOT real.

My life is full of things I can justifiedly get angry over. Why should I waste my anger on something DOESN'T exist and ISN'T real? It's a full waste of time and energy, and it gets quite creepy when you realize a lot of people hates those characters like if they were real people and makes up excuses for hating them (you know, how claiming Sakura is a b*tch because is always hitting Naruto and believes she's God's gift to the men).

When I ran into Naruto's fandom, I met many Sakura haters shouting she was soo annoying and soo violent and sooo useless... and I didn't understand it. She never annoyed me, her "Sasuke-kun" moments were mildly irritating at their worst (and they never were so frequent to start with, and they altogether dissappeared during the Forest of the Death events), and I find the behavior so many haters complain about and rage over is greatly exaggerated or is typical of a twelve-years old girl or a shonen manga female main character.

They're getting so into it that they begin to belittle their own favorite character? Oh, it's personal now, I guess.

We are talking about people claims Hinata MUST end up with Naruto because otherwise her theme is wasted and she is useless and her presence irrelevant, so that... yes.

You're Right Froot.. ..I would like to add that even BLUSHING ---They argued that, Sakura is so embarassed that she LIED . I was " " , when I had read that post.

I... I wish I was able to tell I can't believe it. But sadly, I do.

This is getting out of hand.

The funny part is... They are basing their "She's lying!" accusation on Naruto's denial. However Naruto never accussed her of lying. He stated she was deluding herself. He thought she wanted believing what she was telling and she was trying convincing herself of it, but it wasn't true. And he never accused her of that when she was confessing or blushing.

Therefore... No, my friends. She wasn't blushing because she was lying and she was embarassed about it. She blushed because she was telling "I love you" to someone else and she was embarassed about it. Typical tsundere.

The NH fans' stubborness it's simply amazing: they refuse believing Sakura may have fallen in love with Naruto, not matter what. And they will come up with any crappy reasoning for explaining away all hints and clues and thoughts and words and facts stating otherwise.

Of course, we are used to it. They have been doing that for 474 chapters.

And all of us already imagined what they would do and tell if NS became canon. They confess each other? They are lying themselves and each other. Do they kiss? It isn't real. Do they date together? It's a pity/friendly date. Do they make love? It's pity sex. Do they get married? Sakura got married Naruto because she couldn't get Sasuke, but they'll divorce and Naruto will hook up with his true love, Hinata-sama. Do they have children? They are Sasuke's.

[Froot]

^ So true

Kishi could show them having sex in a manga panel and still they would deny it. Lord knows what they would claim.

Things will always be denied, even if it was proved by Kishi himself. The wise thing to do would be to ignore them. But it's kind of hard when everywhere you turn is an NH fan. I've been doing my very best to refrain from bashing and putting up with the antiNS/anti Sakura fanarts/fanfics/rants, but it's getting harder and harder everyday.

[Nate River]

^ So true

Kishi could show them having sex in a manga panel and still they would deny it. Lord knows what they would claim.

Things will always be denied, even if it was proved by Kishi himself. The wise thing to do would be to ignore them. But it's kind of hard when everywhere you turn is an NH fan. I've been doing my very best to refrain from bashing and putting up with the antiNS/anti Sakura fanarts/fanfics/rants, but it's getting harder and harder everyday.

Nah, it'd either be a loveless one-night stand, friends with benefits, or pity sex.

Even if not denied the debate will simply change terms from "will it happen" to "should it have happened." One need only look at Harry Potter.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You know, I wonder to myself if part of Naruto's anger at Sakura's confessionw asn't just from how she was in it, but just because he assumes she still loves Sasuke. We've seen her feelings for Naruto have really begun to change and develope a lot since the end of the first half, and all the other events Shippuden has shown where she shows her changing feelings for him. It's just also showing too that Naruto is still mentally a Genin as powerful as he is, since he himself's forgotten that people CAN change, as he said when Hinata and Neji fought 3 years ago in the Chunin Exam.

Personally, I think for once, instead of other people's happiness and problems, naruto should try to think of his, and allow others to aid him in that department so it can ease the pain on his heart. After all, we've seen too he's hiding a lot of emotion behind some things, like Sasuke, as Sai said to Sakura and Shizune, which could affect his other relationships, especially when people are worried about him.

He may be tough, but Naruto needs to just realize that things have changed way too much and that he can't try to do everything alone. Even carrying on Jiraiya's wish of peace can't be accomplished alone. And he may need someone who really knows him to help him, and that someone could be Sakura... if he opened his heart to her and just admitted his feelings himself.

Bryon

[James S Cassidy]

I would like to add that Sakura and Naruto are going through a lot of stress right now.

Sasuke is causing trouble and Sakura and Naruto have so far been the ones to pay for his crimes. This is what Sai is saying after reading all the chapters again. Sasuke is getting out of hand and now it is all coming back to his former teammates.

Being in a relationship and probably the worse thing at this moment in time. For both of them. Naruto got his ass kicked by Killer Bee's people, Sakura was told Naruto lovs her and she herself in is conflicted emotions as well as learning what Sasuke has done. They found out everyone wants to kill Sasuke and now they have a target on his head.

Before any kind of relationship to happen, Sakura and Naruto must find peace first. Both with nations and with themselves.It is actually not the time to sit down and get into love affairs.

I think Naruto knows this too which explains a few things. Naruto knows they are going after Sasuke, but he doesn't know that Sakura knows this.....until Sai tells him which is going to happen. He wants to protect her from it. Sakura the same, except she wants to protect Naruto from getting caught in the blast.

They both kept the same information from each other and thus proves how much they truly do care for each other. They are willing to take all the burden for themselves and not on the other. After Sai told Sakura everything. How Naruto was beaten up, how everything is happen, she is stressed beyond belief and wants to make this right. Like they should have been. Like she said "I don't want to make anymore mistakes."

Now Sakura is going to go after Sasuke. Naruto is going to follow, I bet, and go after her. Knowing full well she has no chance against him. She is strong, but Sasuke is stronger. I think only Naruto could take him on now in a fair fight. Something is going to happen where she gets badly hurt. I doubt she will die. Naruto shows up too late and then the battle begins.

I finally get what Naruto meant by "Why would you come all the way out here to tell me this?" and "I hate people who lie to themselves." It really was about Sasuke he was referring to. Not about Sakura's feelings.

The dialogue in chapter 469 and 470 was off from just it being a "I love you"/"You're lying" thing. There has to be more to it. I know there is, We all know there is.

[Derock]

You know, I wonder to myself if part of Naruto's anger at Sakura's confessionw asn't just from how she was in it, but just because he assumes she still loves Sasuke. We've seen her feelings for Naruto have really begun to change and develope a lot since the end of the first half, and all the other events Shippuden has shown where she shows her changing feelings for him. It's just also showing too that Naruto is still mentally a Genin as powerful as he is, since he himself's forgotten that people CAN change, as he said when Hinata and Neji fought 3 years ago in the Chunin Exam.

Personally, I think for once, instead of other people's happiness and problems, naruto should try to think of his, and allow others to aid him in that department so it can ease the pain on his heart. After all, we've seen too he's hiding a lot of emotion behind some things, like Sasuke, as Sai said to Sakura and Shizune, which could affect his other relationships, especially when people are worried about him.

He may be tough, but Naruto needs to just realize that things have changed way too much and that he can't try to do everything alone. Even carrying on Jiraiya's wish of peace can't be accomplished alone. And he may need someone who really knows him to help him, and that someone could be Sakura... if he opened his heart to her and just admitted his feelings himself.

Bryon

That's a good point, Bryon.

I hopefully believe we are going to see this soon anyway (I don't know who will going to give him the talk about people changing, maybe when before or after he fights Sasuke again or when something unexpected happen right before the grand finale of the series comes, then it will forced him to stop and think about).

Now on the NaruHina stuff we keep hearing, I'm going to have to say that its not only male and female fans that are shy and timid that worship her like she's Aphrodite. Its also the ones who likes her based on her looks (especially her boobs and figure) aka the pervs. Mainly, the majority of these fans are Hinata fans and wants her to get what she want in their eyes, not focusing enough not only on Naruto, but for the both of them.

Now I'm in the category of the shy and timid fans, however, I love Sakura because of her own personality and character, plus she reminded me of the other female characters I liked in other anime/manga/video game series.

Oh, and another good point, James. I also agree with that. There is alot of stress in the Narutoverse recently, a criminal (Sasuke) on the loose and may kill Naruto in the name of the Akatsuki, Madara plans a war, something may happen to Naruto and Killer Bee anytime soon when Madara plays his part, Kabutomaru is still on the loose, then there's Danzo and Foundation, and I sensed some more tension between the Five Great Nations before they truly work together peacefully as a whole...

Yep, stress is all over the continent...

[Daniee]

Well, since things have been pretty quiet lately, I think I'l share a little something I just found that might be old to some of you but is new to me.

Anyone ever seen Sakura's first databook profile? Gottheim on MangaHelpers has a translation of it, and it contains these two things:

"[Naruto]
Sakura herself doesn't really know how she feels about Naruto. Her great love is Sasuke, but it should be noticed she also looks Naruto's way... We can't talk about love for the moment, but who knows?! It might happen."

Picture Comment: (The panel is of Sakura impressed at Naruto's trick on Kakashi during the bell test)
"-She feels a spontaneous admiration for Naruto. And for some reason, she's blushing..."


Sakura's growing feelings for Naruto are just platonic, eh? Here, Kishimoto pretty much says that Sakura could one day love Naruto like she does Sasuke. And this is when the series was, like, three years old... Something as small as Sakura blushing at something Naruto did in chapter 5 may have been a hint... With this and all that's happened in the manga, the whole "platonic feelings" argument just doesn't have any weight.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well, since things have been pretty quiet lately, I think I'l share a little something I just found that might be old to some of you but is new to me.

Anyone ever seen Sakura's first databook profile? Gottheim on MangaHelpers has a translation of it, and it contains these two things:

"[Naruto]
Sakura herself doesn't really know how she feels about Naruto. Her great love is Sasuke, but it should be noticed she also looks Naruto's way... We can't talk about love for the moment, but who knows?! It might happen."

Picture Comment: (The panel is of Sakura impressed at Naruto's trick on Kakashi during the bell test)
"-She feels a spontaneous admiration for Naruto. And for some reason, she's blushing..."


Sakura's growing feelings for Naruto are just platonic, eh? Here, Kishimoto pretty much says that Sakura could one day love Naruto like she does Sasuke. And this is when the series was, like, three years old... Something as small as Sakura blushing at something Naruto did in chapter 5 may have been a hint... With this and all that's happened in the manga, the whole "platonic feelings" argument just doesn't have any weight.

Exactly, Daniee. I think why Sakura was blushing is she was seeing the real Naruto, the part of him she didn't ever see since she was too fixated on Sasuke to notice, even if there were times more shown of it. Like how she rooted for him when he faced Neji, being one of the only people who believed in Naruto being able to defeat Neji. Sure, it may have been because they're teammates, but you saw how genuine she was too in her excitement in the anime and manga, and also how much more revved up she was cheering Naruto on when he faced Kiba earlier in the Chunin Exam, or even when she heard he defeated Gaara to save her.

I wonder if early on, perhaps Sakura had some admiration for Naruto beyond her infatuation with Sasuke, and she was only siding with Sasuke in hopes to win favor with him, and being like everyone else; just ragging on Naruto because their parents did it without knowing the real him and just seeing him as a Jinchuriki (the parents I mean). I have seen that kinda thing happen before.

Hell, I only thought about it because of an H-doujin I read where the main girl in it, Yuki, wants to be with this guy named Kyosuke just because he and Jin, the main boy in it, are on the soccer team. I know it's ridiculous to think, but why else would Sakura also blush for Naruto, sometimes more than she'd do so for Sasuke?

XD Sorry, I just went into rant overdrive again, just like earlier.

Bryon

[Derock]

Well, since things have been pretty quiet lately, I think I'l share a little something I just found that might be old to some of you but is new to me.

Anyone ever seen Sakura's first databook profile? Gottheim on MangaHelpers has a translation of it, and it contains these two things:

"[Naruto]
Sakura herself doesn't really know how she feels about Naruto. Her great love is Sasuke, but it should be noticed she also looks Naruto's way... We can't talk about love for the moment, but who knows?! It might happen."

Picture Comment: (The panel is of Sakura impressed at Naruto's trick on Kakashi during the bell test)
"-She feels a spontaneous admiration for Naruto. And for some reason, she's blushing..."


Sakura's growing feelings for Naruto are just platonic, eh? Here, Kishimoto pretty much says that Sakura could one day love Naruto like she does Sasuke. And this is when the series was, like, three years old... Something as small as Sakura blushing at something Naruto did in chapter 5 may have been a hint... With this and all that's happened in the manga, the whole "platonic feelings" argument just doesn't have any weight.

While it is old, it shows that Kishi was starting something with NaruSaku from the very beginning...

And I really don't know why they say NaruSaku is platonic love anyway... If I read the meaning of platonic, it means transcending physical desire towards a more spiritual or ideal. (source is from the American Heritage College Dictionary!) And when I read the definition of "plantonic love" ... doesn't apply here...

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

While it is old, it shows that Kishi was starting something with NaruSaku from the very beginning...

And I really don't know why they say NaruSaku is platonic love anyway... If I read the meaning of platonic, it means transcending physical desire towards a more spiritual or ideal. (source is from the American Heritage College Dictionary!) And when I read the definition of "plantonic love" ... doesn't apply here...

Yeah, I'd say Naruto and Sakura's budding relationship is one of confusion from both sides. Naruto possibly wanting things to be the way they used to be when they were kids and thinking Sakura's still likely in love with Sasuke, while Sakura's shown some signs of potential love with her actions toward Naruto in Shippuden, as well as her confused about how to feel for Sasuke, given everything he's done so far.

Yet deep down, it seems they both have strong feelings for one another, platonically or romantically, it doesn't matter. In the long run, what it is is the strength of their feelings for each other. And we've seen it reflected in their actions, like Sakura's wanting to learn the Chakra Supression Jutsu that Tenzo knows, even if she couldn't, as well as her rushing toward a berserk Four-Tail Naruto to try and calm him down, as well as her not wanting to tell him about the Leaf 12's decisions to neutralize Sasuke themselves because she didn't want to hurt his feelings, or similar to when she didn't tell him about his Four-Tails rampage.

Or for Naruto, constantly apologizing when he failed to save Sasuke, which hurt Sakura, as well as the fact of seeing him go so far for her that he wound up hurt, or even his trying to not tell Sakura about getting pummeled by Killer Bee's students and all that.

So what it means is that perhaps Naruto and Sakura will inch out of this phase of confusion with a series of actions, which could draw them together. For example, one catalyst I see is Sakura, Sai, Lee, and Kiba almost being killed by Sasuke, and Naruto and Sakura talking and his feelings for her being reaffirmed or something. XD

Bryon

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 30 November 2009 - 10:37 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

Anyone ever seen Sakura's first databook profile? Gottheim on MangaHelpers has a translation of it, and it contains these two things:

"[Naruto]
Sakura herself doesn't really know how she feels about Naruto. Her great love is Sasuke, but it should be noticed she also looks Naruto's way... We can't talk about love for the moment, but who knows?! It might happen."

Picture Comment: (The panel is of Sakura impressed at Naruto's trick on Kakashi during the bell test)
"-She feels a spontaneous admiration for Naruto. And for some reason, she's blushing..."

Wow, it's interesting even to see how the databook entries evolved over time. The first entry already had her showing that one day she could possibly fall in love with Naruto. The most recent databook I think speaks about how she is by now unsure of her feelings for Naruto.

And what kind of evolution has NH received? None. Hinata still is in love with Naruto, Naruto still barely notices her.

[Froot]

My nine-year-old brother ships NaruHina.

He has never even read Naruto.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Wow, it's interesting even to see how the databook entries evolved over time. The first entry already had her showing that one day she could possibly fall in love with Naruto. The most recent databook I think speaks about how she is by now unsure of her feelings for Naruto.

And what kind of evolution has NH received? None. Hinata still is in love with Naruto, Naruto still barely notices her.

Plus Hinata has misconstrewed before that Naruto may like her how she loves him, even if she may have done that just to hear what she wanted back in Part 1. Plus the only real big part for them was Hinata going all crazy to protect him from Pain, and we saw how THAT went!

Bryon

[ciardha]

Yeah, I'd say Naruto and Sakura's budding relationship is one of confusion from both sides. Naruto possibly wanting things to be the way they used to be when they were kids and thinking Sakura's still likely in love with Sasuke.

I think Sakura did at least succeed in getting Naruto to wake up to the fact she no longer loves Sasuke. And I think Naruto sort of half accepts Sakura loves him now, once she got mad at him. The arm flap with "it's just weird that you'd say it now..." Sounds like he was thinking "okay, okay, I believe it, she's not joking around, but why did she troop all the way out her to say it?" He knows it's not that part of what she said that she was deluding herself about, she got too fired up about it.

I think he is angry that she's given up on the possibility of Sasuke's redemption, Naruto is plagued with doubts about that, but that has made him cling onto wanting to redeem Sasuke that much more desperately. He's angry at Sakura because she's voiced his doubts with a certainty. (It's not that she no longer loves Sasuke that made him angry, it's that she's given up on Sasuke completely. So he throws in her face, that she can feel what she wants to feel about Sasuke, he's still going after Sasuke because of the brother like bond he has to him.)

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I think Sakura did at least succeed in getting Naruto to wake up to the fact she no longer loves Sasuke. And I think Naruto sort of half accepts Sakura loves him now, once she got mad at him. The arm flap with "it's just weird that you'd say it now..." Sounds like he was thinking "okay, okay, I believe it, she's not joking around, but why did she troop all the way out her to say it?" He knows it's not that part of what she said that she was deluding herself about, she got too fired up about it.

I think he is angry that she's given up on the possibility of Sasuke's redemption, Naruto is plagued with doubts about that, but that has made him cling onto wanting to redeem Sasuke that much more desperately. He's angry at Sakura because she's voiced his doubts with a certainty. (It's not that she no longer loves Sasuke that made him angry, it's that she's given up on Sasuke completely. So he throws in her face, that she can feel what she wants to feel about Sasuke, he's still going after Sasuke because of the brother like bond he has to him.)

Now I gotta give you props. That sounds like a good reason.

Of course, you gotta wonder if Naruto'll at least realize that Sasuke may not want to be redeemed.

Bryon

[NaruSaku93]

naruto will probably realize that sasuke doesn't want to be redeemed towards the ending of the series............. he seems so dedicated into bringing sasuke back and reuniting them as team 7

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

naruto will probably realize that sasuke doesn't want to be redeemed towards the ending of the series............. he seems so dedicated into bringing sasuke back and reuniting them as team 7

Yeah. I've had a small slim chance in Sasuke being redeemed by the end of the series, but yet, he's made all of his decisions himself, even WITH "nudging". I just hope Naruto can realize his mistake sooner or later...

Bryon

[Jenskott]

Even if not denied the debate will simply change terms from "will it happen" to "should it have happened." One need only look at Harry Potter.

Indeed.

However, when a show ends, the most of the fans steadily leave the fandom after a while, and there're less fights. Hopefully that will happen here.

Anyone ever seen Sakura's first databook profile? Gottheim on MangaHelpers has a translation of it, and it contains these two things:

"[Naruto]
Sakura herself doesn't really know how she feels about Naruto. Her great love is Sasuke, but it should be noticed she also looks Naruto's way... We can't talk about love for the moment, but who knows?! It might happen."

Picture Comment: (The panel is of Sakura impressed at Naruto's trick on Kakashi during the bell test)
"-She feels a spontaneous admiration for Naruto. And for some reason, she's blushing..."

Than you, Daniee. I didn't know about that. I don't pay attention to the databooks, but anti-NS fans are always using them like proof of NS is doomed. Funny how those same books already hinted Sakura might fall in love with Naruto, but they refused seeing it.

Of course, they have been telling "NS is doomed" for a very long time, and refusing seeing hints (of course, if someone refused seeing hints of Hinata's crush, they claimed that person was dellusional, but they adamantly and stubbornly refused seeing hints of Sakura falling in love with Naruto). Wether something did or didn't happen, the were claiming it was the end of NS.

"469 and 470 mean the death of NS!". Yes, right. I already know that tune. I heard it in chapter 459, 457, 450, 449, 437, before Naruto traveled to Myobokuzan, during the Tobi fight...

I wonder... Why is Kishimoto always killing NS? If he killed it once, why he should do it over... and over... and over? If he has killed it once, he wouldn't need doing it again, would he?

Perhaps it's because he never killed it and those deaths were nothing but wishful thinking of some fans.

I think Sakura did at least succeed in getting Naruto to wake up to the fact she no longer loves Sasuke. And I think Naruto sort of half accepts Sakura loves him now, once she got mad at him.

We can hope so, but i have the feeling when he said "It's just i find weird you'd come all this way just to tell me that", and "I think I know you better than that", he was looking for excuses.

I guess it is -partially- understandable. Not long ago, he saw her getting sad when Sasuke was mentioned. And now she's telling she doesn't care about him. It isn't unreasonable he finds that weird and thinks she's trying convincing herself of the fact.

The thing is... it doesn't matter if she was being truthful or not. He doesn't want believing her because then he would have to akcnowledge his promise is void and Sasuke already is beyond redemption and salvation.

I don't know if Sasuke can be redeemed for now. On one hand, I find it unlikely. On the other hand, one of the main themes in this manga is the newer generation always surpasses the older one, so Naruto should triumph where his sensei failed.

I think there're two possible ways to avoid this: 1 -) Sasuke dies saving his ex-teammates, thus redeeming himself; 2 - ) Sasuke repents his crimes, but he doesn't return to Konoha, and Naruto accepts that.

However I don't like speculating, so I'll stop now.

[catsi563]

wonder if early on, perhaps Sakura had some admiration for Naruto beyond her infatuation with Sasuke, and she was only siding with Sasuke in hopes to win favor with him, and being like everyone else; just ragging on Naruto because their parents did it without knowing the real him and just seeing him as a Jinchuriki (the parents I mean). I have seen that kinda thing happen before.

Ill answer this question simply because its something ive seen in far too many fanfictions as the reaosn for Sakuras behavior towards Naruto.

Simply put and it usualy involves Sakuras parents being in the we hate the demon camp. She is shown as always following the crowd and treating naruto like everyone else.

this simply isnt the case.

in point of fact during the bench scene she tells naruto exactly why she doesnt like him. Its that he is always interfereing with her and likes to see her fail, and that she feels he doesnt understand her at all.

By always itnerfering with her love life we can take this to infer that she feels he is always interfering with her and Sasuke and thus is referirng to his constantly asking her out on dates after she told him no the first couiple times.

this is a completley understandable feeling as if Naruto was constantly asking her out after she said no it could come off as stalking worse then hintat, esepcilly when shes trying to get Sasuke to acknowledge her.

next we have him embarrasing her.

again this is understanable and rooted in the above problem. Naruto at the time is clumsy and quite frankly loud and obnoxious in his dealings with people. thus it its no stretch to imagine that his attempts to get sakura to go out with him would be similarly clumsy and obnoxious. thus potentially embarrasing her in front of her friends and peers.

this is something that pre skip Sakura was very concsious of and wouldnt take kindly too.

which finally leads to the third. her feeling that Naruto doesnt understand her at all. Again even given Narutos suprising insight into Sakuras mind and fantasy. It is clear that Naruto pretimeskip doesnt understand Sakura very well given that if he had approahced Sakura a different way, he may very well have succeeded with Sakura a sopposed to what happened in Canon.

In conclusion Sakura was very direct in saying that her major issue with Naruto was his constant interference and embarrasment of her, and his --Perceived-- inability to understand her. combined with his obnoxious and loud behavior, and quite frankly I agree with her assessment.

he was at the start of the series a right annoying and loud little bastard.

Thankfully by the end of part 1 and the beginning of Part 2 he has matured quite a lot. his ability to sacrafice his happiness for Sakura is an example of this maturity and growth which lead to his self sacrificial Promise of a lifetime.

[Jenskott]

Like always, Catsi, your post is very insightful and thought-provoking.

Nevertheless, I would like commenting on some paragraphs:

this is a completley understandable feeling as if Naruto was constantly asking her out after she said no it could come off as stalking worse then hintat, esepcilly when shes trying to get Sasuke to acknowledge her.

This is very true, and it reminds me of one widespread and very hypocrital attitude of the fandom: if Naruto asks her out and she rejects him, she's a heartless harlot and Naruto a poor sucker who should look for greener pastures instead of putting up with it; but if she asks Sasuke out and he rejects her, he's a poor boy shouldn't have to put up with her unwanted affections and she's an annoying pest who can't have a hint.

Why that double standard? It's foolish, insulting, and it reinforces my belief of the true reason of her bashers hate her is she has breasts. (I'm not telling that all Sakura haters hate her because she's a woman or that is the sole, real reason of the hatred she suffers from. But often I notice she is being judged under a double standard. And when I hear some "arguments" I seriously wonder if the basher would be dissing her like that if she wasn't a woman or if she was big-breasted like Hinata).

which finally leads to the third. her feeling that Naruto doesnt understand her at all. Again even given Narutos suprising insight into Sakuras mind and fantasy. It is clear that Naruto pretimeskip doesnt understand Sakura very well given that if he had approahced Sakura a different way, he may very well have succeeded with Sakura a sopposed to what happened in Canon.

I disagree to an extent. I think the trouble isn't he didn't understand Sakura but he didn't know how wooing her properly.

In conclusion Sakura was very direct in saying that her major issue with Naruto was his constant interference and embarrasment of her, and his --Perceived-- inability to understand her. combined with his obnoxious and loud behavior, and quite frankly I agree with her assessment.

he was at the start of the series a right annoying and loud little bastard.

And that's something the "Whoever slighted Naruto when he was young and innocent must die! But let's pretend my favorite characters didn't do the same thing so I can keep liking them or shipping them with Naruto!" camp doesn't -want- understand.

Again, we find a double standard: Naruto can get away with silly, inmature behaviour because he was twelve-years old, but Sakura can't get away with it in spite of she also was an inmature brat. And at least she was more tactful than Naruto.

One example? I have found people shouting they hated her when she was twelve because she was always complaining. She wasn't always complaining. Not even constantly. And Naruto and Sasuke complained so much or more than her (specially Naruto. Actually they used to complain at the same time as Sasuke grumbled).

Still Sakura gets bashed to Hell whereas Naruto and Sasuke are forgiven or even defended for the same behavior. Why?

And of course, she is bashed by being a crybaby. Not matter she only cries in times of great emotional distress. Not matter Naruto, Shikamaru, Konohamaru, Sasuke, Itachi, Gaara, Kakashi... also cry a lot. But they aren't bashed by crying. Why?