19964 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

Chapter 474 made is clear that Sakura does know and understand how Naruto feels about Sasuke.
Sai to Naruto: "It probably wasn't easy. She knew it would hurt you. But still...she thought she'd lessen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love for you. But you still said you wanted to save Sasuke. I think that's why she couldn't tell you the truth. She was thinking of your feelings...and probably knew you'd say that."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/4.html
http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/5.html

And then Yamato adds: "But if she knew what Naruto's reaction would be...that means she never meant to tell him in the first place, right?"

Then back to Sai after telling Naruto that she planned to kill Sasuke herself: "She also knows that might make you hate her. That's her way of making up for trying to saddle you with a lifelong burden."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/9.html

Chapter 470 made is clear that despite knowing that it would hurt Naruto, she believed from her conversations with Sai and her experiences before that chasing after Sasuke was putting Naruto not only in great emotional pain, but also putting him at physical risk (of getting hurt by Sasuke or making him easier to capture by the Akatsuki). She felt that Sasuke could no longer be saved. So she puts Naruto first - she is trying very clearly to do what's best for Naruto in the long run, even if she knows it will hurt him and make him angry in the short run. That just goes to show how much she cares.

http://www.mangahere...v50/c470/2.html

The person we haven't seen such understanding from is Hinata. She supposedly understands Naruto a lot from watching him all of those years, and from loving him. Yet, when we ever saw the rookies talking about killing Sasuke, Hinata didn't raise a single objection, and didn't look upset at all by the decision. She's never tried to offer Naruto comfort or support in what is one of the most upsetting and important things/goals in his life right now. Thus, she either doesn't understand a huge part of Naruto, or she does understand and simply doesn't care about hurting Naruto that way. Hell, she didn't even volunteer to go to the summit to help ease Naruto's pain at telling him some of the hardest news he'll ever get.

I'll cover the rest of the points later as I have the time.

THIS thank you Paptala it's that hard for people to understand how much Sakura cares for Naruto and what's she's willing to do in order to protect him. The lengths she's willing to go through to put him out of harm's way (including the possibility that he might hate her for taking the decision to kill Sasuke). It makes me laugh that NH and SS fans likewise think that her confession was" selfish" if we compare it to Hinata's confession that she made it clear herself that SHE was being selfish. Compare to Sakura she was ONLY thinking of Naruto, his feelings etc she NEVER thought about herself and what she wants. She did what she did to protect Naruto from Sasuke, from Akatsuki and that was all when she found out from Sai of the pain he was going through because of Sasuke and the POALT, also when Sai said that she was the one contributing to that pain. She didn't hesitated when Shikamaru mentioned to take care of Sasuke as in killing him, her thoughts and her all were on Naruto no one else.

[Codus N]

Chapter 474 made is clear that Sakura does know and understand how Naruto feels about Sasuke.
Sai to Naruto: "It probably wasn't easy. She knew it would hurt you. But still...she thought she'd lessen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love for you. But you still said you wanted to save Sasuke. I think that's why she couldn't tell you the truth. She was thinking of your feelings...and probably knew you'd say that."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/4.html
http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/5.html

And then Yamato adds: "But if she knew what Naruto's reaction would be...that means she never meant to tell him in the first place, right?"

Then back to Sai after telling Naruto that she planned to kill Sasuke herself: "She also knows that might make you hate her. That's her way of making up for trying to saddle you with a lifelong burden."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/9.html

Chapter 470 made is clear that despite knowing that it would hurt Naruto, she believed from her conversations with Sai and her experiences before that chasing after Sasuke was putting Naruto not only in great emotional pain, but also putting him at physical risk (of getting hurt by Sasuke or making him easier to capture by the Akatsuki). She felt that Sasuke could no longer be saved. So she puts Naruto first - she is trying very clearly to do what's best for Naruto in the long run, even if she knows it will hurt him and make him angry in the short run. That just goes to show how much she cares.

http://www.mangahere...v50/c470/2.html

The person we haven't seen such understanding from is Hinata. She supposedly understands Naruto a lot from watching him all of those years, and from loving him. Yet, when we ever saw the rookies talking about killing Sasuke, Hinata didn't raise a single objection, and didn't look upset at all by the decision. She's never tried to offer Naruto comfort or support in what is one of the most upsetting and important things/goals in his life right now. Thus, she either doesn't understand a huge part of Naruto, or she does understand and simply doesn't care about hurting Naruto that way. Hell, she didn't even volunteer to go to the summit to help ease Naruto's pain at telling him some of the hardest news he'll ever get.

I'll cover the rest of the points later as I have the time.

Completely understand, but I think Ryuken's point was why did she do that?? if she knew what would that entail, then why did she do it anyways?? not only that, we saw that in chapter 459 she vowed not to make anymore mistakes. Wouldn't she have thought of a better plan?? this is what I think Ryuken's asking about. And most of all, she's the FREAKIN' HEROINE!! aren't heroines created so that people look up to them too?? then why did Kishi destroy her?? that's all I'm asking for. Is it wrong for me to ask for her to actually accomplish something big for the hero?? that's all.

If Kishi is the heroine he makes her out to be, wouldn't she have more "heroic" feats?? especially when it comes to the hero??

*sigh* Graven, your rendition of chapter 469-470 is sooo much better .

Edited by Codus N, 12 July 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Stop it. theres been a lot of open minded debates here. Every NS fan has tryed to argue against themselves here after looking for arguements from other people and they work dissect it and debunk it.

So don't say anything like we never had a fair debate here, because thats absolutely not true

Oh, is that a fact? I'm going to have to ask you to show me some examples of this. Because I have yet to see it.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh, is that a fact? I'm going to have to ask you to show me some examples of this. Because I have yet to see it.

Sorry but i went with a debat with living lavish before and he just went crazy and forgot what he had said before, even with an ADM come and tell us to stop and myself told him to PM me he still posted it because he wanted to be the last to post to feel superior, we have fair debates but some people has ridiculous attitudes like this that destroy debates and stuff here.

[PachucoDesigns]

Sorry but i went with a debat with living lavish before and he just went crazy and forgot what he had said before, even with an ADM come and tell us to stop and myself told him to PM me he still posted it because he wanted to be the last to post to feel superior, we have fair debates but some people has ridiculous attitudes like this that destroy debates and stuff here.

Yeah, I figured as much.

[Don-kun]

@Ryuken

Ok as I point out before, if you want to debate to favor NH you debate for the pairing, what I saw here was a bothurt ex NS fan questioning why Sakura didn't do this and why she didn't do that, he became a NHfan I think I'm not sure, because Sakura piss him off not because he find NH more appealing is because he got tired of Sakura character. If we do a balance we can see that Sakura was there for Naruto 97% of the times Hinata 3% and was to die in front of him letting him know how much she loves him before she committed suicide.

People can say how Hinata confession was sweet, I think that way to, but when you face reality, she could make a clone of herself one to distract Pain and the other to try freeing Naruto, Hinata wasn't almost killed trying to free Naruto, she said what she came to say and then run off to face someone she knows she had zero chance against, so in other words she thought Naruto would die and before that happen she would let him know her feelings and her regret for not trying to be close to him and hold his hands before, Hinata had no way of knowing Naruto had a Kyuubi inside him that would trigger and save them all. Are her fans looking on it this way? Of course not, they only focusing on the romantic side.

Sakura, yes she and Naruto are Teammates so is obvious she would be there for him, but was she always there for him when the Manga started? NO that grew with time Naruto actually change her. Hinata from the get go she liked Naruto just like how Sakura liked Sasuke she was exactly the same minus the intensity.
Sakura is Naruto Main support, Naruto is Hinata's main crush/love. Sakura is Naruto's best friend, Hinata likes Naruto. What I'm trying to say is that Naruto and Sakura become really close due to the friendship they develop the bond they share the only reason why we speak about NH is because Hinata always thinks about him, not because they are close, there for some of the readers get so attached to her wants that they forget how you really start a relationship.

My point is, most of these new NH fans focus on NaruSaku flaws to back up their pairing and I think that's fu** up, but when you ask them to give you a good reason why they like NHand think it will happen they use things like Hinata deserves Naruto, they look cute together, Hinata always love Naruto, the blood vow, Hinata's confession, Naruto will be a jerk if he break Hinata's heart she is so sweet, the eye thing and the new favorite holding hands.
But where Naruto fits in all of this, he has made a bond with Konohamaru Iuka, Inari, Shikamaru, so why Kishi didn't strengthen his bond with Hinata if he was really planning to make them a pairing, why he didn't make Hinata the one who hug Naruto in 450, why didn't she think about Naruto's pain when Jiraiya die or when they try to kill Sasuke, why didn't she comforted Naruto and Sakura when Tsunade was in coma, why she haven't mirror Naruto loving Sakura and feeling a little sad for him, but promise her self that she will do her best to make him happy, NO this is all about Hinata and what she wants and if she wants Naruto then he will be hers no matter how he feels, that is what I get from Hinata, and my question to that. Who is Hinata?

In the 13 years of the Naruto Manga, some people as assume that Sakura might have develop romantic feelings for Naruto pointed out in Manga and in Kishi's interviews, but no one has ever ask if Naruto likes Hinata or if Sasuke likes Sakura, that alone speaks volume.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Codus N]

Actually, from what I can understand what Ryuken sent me in his PM, it's not that he's an NH supporter. Rather, it's more like he's a swing voter. He knows NS does have a big chance of happening, but as it looks now to him, NH has better chances. And this is, as we both agreed that Kishi's been undermining Sakura's position as the heroine. That's the BIG flaw Kishi needs to clear up.

Ryuken, ini aq masih baca PM-mu aq masih mikir2 ttg pendapatmu, tunggu ya...

Edited by Codus N, 12 July 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@NS means Logic - Kishimoto puts Naruto to save both girls on the same chapter, hinata always think about herself but naruto make a vow that he would win sakura's hearth, bot only on the part 1 but on part 2 too.
And naruto is not a type of hero that breaks his promises dont u think?

@Codus N - Sakura had a big role in the begining of the shippuuden but kishi had to clear up things like akatsuki , sasuke , itachi, and u re-read the entire manga sakura could not have focus because MUCH bigger stuff happened , jiraya's death, pein's invasion, the war itself being split into three "big" battles and sakura is not a type of "twilight" heroine she didnt have focus because kishi had to develop more important stuff.

talking aobut anime hinata first appearence was at 33 then she appears only at 120 not counting fillers.

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[sushi.]

People can say how Hinata confession was sweet, I think that way to, but when you face reality, she could make a clone of herself one to distract Pain and the other to try freeing Naruto, Hinata wasn't almost killed trying to free Naruto, she said what she came to say and then run off to face someone she knows she had zero chance against, so in other words she thought Naruto would die and before that happen she would let him know her feelings and her regret for not trying to be close to him and hold his hands before, Hinata had no way of knowing Naruto had a Kyuubi inside him that would trigger and save them all. Are her fans looking on it this way? Of course not, they only focusing on the romantic side.

Hinata can't make clones. And Hinata must've known the reason Pain was after Naruto. I think she should've taken Katsuyu, and ordered to give information about Pain, as well as telling people he was in danger. But I think she believed she could rescue Naruto, and die in the process. I have no idea why, did she really think she had a chance against Pain, or did she have some other plan?

Sakura, yes she and Naruto are Teammates so is obvious she would be there for him, but was she always there for him when the Manga started? NO that grew with time Naruto actually change her. Hinata from the get go she liked Naruto just like how Sakura liked Sasuke she was exactly the same minus the intensity.
Sakura is Naruto Main support, Naruto is Hinata's main crush/love. Sakura is Naruto's best friend, Hinata likes Naruto. What I'm trying to say is that Naruto and Sakura become really close due to the friendship they develop the bond they share the only reason why we speak about NH is because Hinata always thinks about him, not because they are close, there for some of the readers get so attached to her wants that they forget how you really start a relationship.

Yes!

My point is, most of these new NH fans focus on NaruSaku flaws to back up their pairing and I think that's fu** up, but when you ask them to give you a good reason why they like NH, they use things like Hinata deserves Naruto, they look cute together, Hinata always love Naruto, the blood vow, Hinata's confession, Naruto will be a jerk if he break Hinata's heart she is so sweet, the eye thing and the new favorite holding hands.
But where Naruto fits in all of this, he has made a bond with Konohamaru Iuka, Inari, Shikamaru, so why Kishi didn't strengthen his bond with Hinata if he was really planning to make them a pairing, why he didn't make Hinata the one who hug Naruto in 450, why didn't she think about Naruto's pain when Jiraiya die or when they try to kill Sasuke, why didn't she comforted Naruto and Sakura when Tsunade was in coma, why she haven't mirror Naruto loving Sakura and feeling a little sad for him, but promise her self that she will do her best to make him happy, NO this is all about Hinata and what she wants and if she wants Naruto then he will be hers no matter how he feels, that is what I get from Hinata, and my question to that. Who is Hinata?

In the 13 years of the Naruto Manga, some people as assume that Sakura might have develop romantic feelings for Naruto pointed out in Manga and in Kishi's interviews, but no one has ever ask if Naruto likes Hinata or if Sasuke likes Sakura, that alone speaks volume.

I see many NH fans stick to the "opposites attract" argument. But Naruto and Sakura actually have a bond now. They built it together, While Sasuke ran away and Hinata watched Naruto from apart.

[Codus N]

@Codus N - Sakura had a big role in the begining of the shippuuden but kishi had to clear up things like akatsuki , sasuke , itachi, and u re-read the entire manga sakura could not have focus because MUCH bigger stuff happened , jiraya's death, pein's invasion, the war itself being split into three "big" battles and sakura is not a type of "twilight" heroine she didnt have focus because kishi had to develop more important stuff.

talking aobut anime hinata first appearence was at 33 then she appears only at 120 not counting fillers.

Yeah, just one battle. And that's about it. But however, I ask you this, then. Why didn't he involve her more in those stuff?? for example, he could've easily had Sakura try to reach out to Naruto during Jiraiya's death. Even a small scene would've been enough. Pain's invasion, she could've tried to help by fighting too, but she knew her priority lied in her role as one of Tsunade's best medics. The same goes for the war, too. What's more, why, oh, why did Kishi make up those sh*tty "3 rules" from Tsunade. That's just practically screaming that Kishi doesn't care about her.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah, just one battle. And that's about it. But however, I ask you this, then. Why didn't he involve her more in those stuff?? for example, he could've easily had Sakura try to reach out to Naruto during Jiraiya's death. Even a small scene would've been enough. Pain's invasion, she could've tried to help by fighting too, but she knew her priority lied in her role as one of Tsunade's best medics. The same goes for the war, too. What's more, why, oh, why did Kishi make up those sh*tty "3 rules" from Tsunade. That's just practically screaming that Kishi doesn't care about her.

Sakura always had everything how she can help naruto there kishimoto already said she cant understando naruto or sasuke, Iruka was better and shikamaru because both lose people that are precious to them sakura not.
Pein's invasion she did helping the citizens but naruto said clearly he didnt wanted no one to help him in that battle hinata comes as an intruse.
Naruto would transform with or without hinata, she just wanted to tell naruto that she loves him, but sakura had her time too later and more important.
And the most important Naruto loves Sakura what do u think he would feel if something happens to her, told you sakura does not have a special bloodline or some kind of hidden power she's normal, hinata has a byakugan.

http://www.mangaread...hapter-457.html

http://i13.mangaread...ruto-412520.jpg

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Codus N]

How can you be so sure he could go 6 tails, with, or without Hinata?? if both girls neither came to his aid, what would the scenario be?? and it's true that Sakura would've been less effective to give the pep talk, but it would show she's giving some effort.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

How can you be so sure he could go 6 tails, with, or without Hinata?? if both girls neither came to his aid, what would the scenario be?? and it's true that Sakura would've been less effective to give the pep talk, but it would show she's giving some effort.

because it was the only thing he could do to stay alive and kyuubi wont let naruto be captured.

[Don-kun]

Hinata can't make clones. And Hinata must've known the reason Pain was after Naruto. I think she should've taken Katsuyu, and ordered to give information about Pain, as well as telling people he was in danger. But I think she believed she could rescue Naruto, and die in the process. I have no idea why, did she really think she had a chance against Pain, or did she have some other plan?


Yes!


I see many NH fans stick to the "opposites attract" argument. But Naruto and Sakura actually have a bond now. They built it together, While Sasuke ran away and Hinata watched Naruto from apart.

I will point that out on less you forget that part, that was one of the requirements to become a Genin. I stated before the shadow clone would be the use of distraction or do something, her confession was cute but it seems that she already made up her mind to die, because she admitted that she already know she didn't have a chance against Pain but she was being selfish.

437 pg 9 --Click here to view--

http://i33.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8778.jpg

437 pg 10 --Click here to view--

http://i17.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8779.jpg

437 pg 11 --Click here to view--

http://i21.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8780.jpg

She even admitted that she wanted him for herself, and regretting the fact that she didn't act on her feelings before. Honestly does anyone believe, if Hinata know she would die Naruto will find the way to free himself, I honestly don't do you?

NH doesn't call my attemtion because they a missing the key element something the Author really try to sell us through his Manga, BOND.

[Codus N]

because it was the only thing he could do to stay alive and kyuubi wont let naruto be captured.

You do know that Summoning Kurama at the time would require extreme rage. Nothing so far indicates he would've transformed without Hinata.

[TouKen4Life3g]

How can you be so sure he could go 6 tails, with, or without Hinata?? if both girls neither came to his aid, what would the scenario be?? and it's true that Sakura would've been less effective to give the pep talk, but it would show she's giving some effort.

6 tails would have happen with anyone for the record. That's a fact especially when he declared it himself saying that he don't anyone to die and went to drastic measure to stop Pain. Again, Hinata was set to go there for her character to finally get a closure (which we got in the war arc). As for Sakura, Tsunade did tell her to leave him for he has to think over the loss. The best option was to meet a father-like figure (Iruka) who also lost his loved one. Same as Shikamaru for his lost ones. Besides Sakura was there for every moment that he's planning. She even saw him leave with one good luck support.

The whole invasion arc was like closure for Konoha feeling on Naruto. Everyone got one (almost) and Kishi had Sakura to hug him because couple of reasons. One is that she was very worried and she didn't know what was going to happen. She was reported that he turned Kyuubi and she was trying her best to stay calm and support the people around her. To me, that's strong for her to handle. The other one is that Naruto was being rewarded by the village who once hated him. He gained huge respect, kids love him, and then she came to him, hitting him for making her feel fear. This is common when it comes to building romance couple, especially the next step, the hug. The whole village saw it and yeah, it would seem appropriate for them to get together. The reactions were priceless.

Well, looks like I went over your questions. Ended up writing more than I've expected.

[sushi.]

I will point that out on less you forget that part, that was one of the requirements to become a Genin. I stated before the shadow clone would be the use of distraction or do something, her confession was cute but it seems that she already made up her mind to die, because she admitted that she already know she didn't have a chance against Pain but she was being selfish.

437 pg 9 --Click here to view--

http://i33.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8778.jpg

437 pg 10 --Click here to view--

http://i17.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8779.jpg

437 pg 11 --Click here to view--

http://i21.mangareader.net/naruto/437/naruto-8780.jpg

She even admitted that she wanted him for herself, and regretting the fact that she didn't act on her feelings before. Honestly does anyone believe, if Hinata know she would die Naruto will find the way to free himself, I honestly don't do you?

NH doesn't call my attemtion because they a missing the key element something the Author really try to sell us through his Manga, BOND.

I don't think her confession was cute, I think it was self-centered(or Naruto-centered ) and reckless. And Lee can't make clones, not to mention he doesn't know any ninjutsu, he's still a chuunin. I haven't seen any Hyuuga make a clone before, I refuse to believe it before I see it.

[PachucoDesigns]

I don't think her confession was cute, I think it was self-centered(or Naruto-centered ) and reckless. And Lee can't make clones, not to mention he doesn't know any ninjutsu, he's still a chuunin. I haven't seen any Hyuuga make a clone before, I refuse to believe it before I see it.

Every NS fan I've ever met thinks that her confession was self-centered and reckless. Funny, because they seem to be the only fans who do.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 12 July 2012 - 04:08 PM.

[sushi.]

Every NS fan I've ever met thinks that her confession was self-centered and reckless. Funny, because they seem to be the only fans who do.

What do you mean? Me being an NS fan has nothing to do with my opinion of Hinata's confession. It doesn't change my view.

[Don-kun]

Yeah, just one battle. And that's about it. But however, I ask you this, then. Why didn't he involve her more in those stuff?? for example, he could've easily had Sakura try to reach out to Naruto during Jiraiya's death. Even a small scene would've been enough. Pain's invasion, she could've tried to help by fighting too, but she knew her priority lied in her role as one of Tsunade's best medics. The same goes for the war, too. What's more, why, oh, why did Kishi make up those sh*tty "3 rules" from Tsunade. That's just practically screaming that Kishi doesn't care about her.

Sorry but if you like myself have been following the story and NaruSaku we know Kishi always use some kind of excuse to block Naruto from being close to Sakura, there is always an interruption.

Their first kiss chapter 3.
The date after his return from the 2 years and and half.
Her concern with the Kyuubi stuff in 261.
Sai's question.
Yamato's speech.
Her confession (I can tell you this from the bottom of my) cut off.
After all that crap in Summit when she tries to approach him that precise moment the poisoned Kunai start taking effect.
Trying to comfort him when Jiraiya die, but stopped by Tsunade.
The feeding scene
After they return from Summit Kishi use the excuse that she needed to tell everyone that Tsunade was awake from her coma just to avoid Naruto and Sakura spending time together after her confession. And the last straw after he rescues her in 558 the scene was cut off without them speaking to each other.

So the question is not why Sakura didn't is why Kishi always creat something to block thier way.

Edited by NS means logic, 12 July 2012 - 04:18 PM.