19964 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

To be frank, I don't see any one of the female characters in this series to be pairing fodder. I would like to think that Kishimoto is above such garbage. And while we're at it, romantically speaking, I don't hate any of the female characters in this series. But I don't particularly like any of them, either. The only exception would be Shizune, but there isn't any moral reasoning to it. She's just cute. lol

I don't care about the pairings nearly as much as I do about the logical flow of the story, and that Kishimoto doesn't do anything to contradict the story as he has developed it so far. I have no love for Sakura. But the NS pairing is the only conclusion that would bring the story full circle without giving the finger to everyone who has watched its development so far, fantasizing fangirls or no. NS must happen because every line of development has lead to that outcome. So if he is truly a competent storyteller, he will either end this with NS or open-ended with no pairings at all. Nothing else makes sense.

I agree with you. Glad to hear your opinion. Always welcome to my world.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I don't hate Hinata either. I like her sweet and kind nature. I hate her fanbase, but not the character herself. It's just what bothers me is that she is never seen thinking about anything beyond Naruto. Really gives off the impression of pairing fodder.

[PachucoDesigns]

I agree with you. Glad to hear your opinion. Always welcome to my world.

Most people are not glad to hear my opinion. Not unless it ends with "NS will happen."

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Most people are not glad to hear my opinion. Not unless it ends with "NS will happen."

You express your opinion freely, nothing wrong with that. Sure it grates on others nerves occassionally but at least your straightfoward. In a debate of course your gonna disagree. That's what a debate is.

[PachucoDesigns]

You express your opinion freely, nothing wrong with that. Sure it grates on others nerves occassionally but at least your straightfoward. In a debate of course your gonna disagree. That's what a debate is.

No, that's really not what a debate is. And instead of calmly addressing what I say, a lot of people here like to throw the same baseless accusations about how I don't know manga or tsunderes, or Japanese culture. Or they tell me that I'm taking it too personally. Or they call me a troll, or not worth debating. They often seem to miss the point of what I'm saying all together, hearing only Sakura bashing even though I'm not. It's crap. I've yet to see any real debate here, just a lot of nodding and agreeing until someone comes along with a different view. And then they're treated like I have been.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 12 July 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

No, that's really not what a debate is. And instead of calmly addressing what I say, a lot of people here like to throw the same baseless accusations about how I don't know manga or tsunderes, or Japanese culture. Or they tell me that I'm taking it too personally. Or they call me a troll, or not worth debating. They often seem to miss the point of what I'm saying all together, hearing only Sakura bashing even though I'm not. It's crap. I've yet to see any real debate here, just a lot of nodding and agreeing until someone comes along with a different view. And then they're treated like I have been.

A real debate is having different opinions but just agree to disagree without flames. That's a debate to me. Of course people are going to nod and agree. Most of the NaruSaku fans think the same or at least have similar thoughts. A NaruHina or SasuSaku fan never goes to this website to make things more interesting. So that's why there's a lack of debate here . Add that to the lack of NaruSaku moments or any SS/NH moments lately(which is understandable. It's a war after all and romance isn't a big issue in the series).

That's what is: Just agree to disagree before it erupts in an argument.

[Codus N]

Ok, guys Ryuken just asked me to post his thoughts: (reason why is because I offered to edit his post so that it doesn't end up being gibberish)

ok guys, this is the post i promised to you. but before continuing, i would like to tell you that i dont hate tsundere character. one of my favorite anime character is a tsundere. she is akane tendo from ranma1/2. in my opinion she is a perfect example of tsundere yet i love her . and her relationship with ranma is funny and goddan awesome. and sakura was my favorite too. one more thing to to take notice. i was seaching a lot of place for narusaku's proofs. but i found most of the opposite proofs.

as i said before, i was a narusaku fan. then what destroyed my faith on them for being together?

1. sakura's confession. lol, you can laugh at me as much as you want. i know you would say you have disscuss about this many times. but. im not talking about the confession itself, but the time sakura dicided to confess. on the conversation between sakura, sizune, sai and shikamaru. theres one thing most of people can't understand about naruto, its his obsession to save sasuke. i said most of people, both in real life and narutoverse, and sadly, including sakura.

naruto's feeling for sasuke --Click here to view--

sakura, you were with naruto at these times. but why sakura, why you, of all people, can't understand naruto's feeling for sasuke? why you, for sake of 200+ moment with naruto, can't understand that asking him to stop chasing sasuke would really hurt him?

NS guys will say that sakura did that because she love naruto and wanted to resolve her own heart. then let me ask you, when did you realize if you fall in love with someone? the answer is when you can't help but give a lot of though for that person. then, if sakura gave a lot of thought for naruto, how didn't she realize it?
conclusion:at this point, sakura's love for naruto has not grown to the level of understanding yet. for her to unable to understand naruto's feeling for sasuke is unacceptable. and the worst scenario is that she really faking the confession. so, where is the development everyone talking about.. WHERE?

2. Sakura hit Naruto lololol. before you blame me, let me remind you that i dont hate tsundere character. the problem is, i believed (while being narusaku fan) that sakura did that to keep naruto in line. but my faith on her ruined by this

sakura hit konohamaru --Click here to view--

the dissappointing part to me was the fact that sakura has not only hit naruto. and the worse part is that she didnt hit konohamaru for the boy on boy jutsu.
and then, come to this this.

sakura hit sai --Click here to view--

hitting sai for insulting her is somehow acceptable to me. but hitting him for calling ino bautifull. well .. ummm .. im speechless

conclusion: i expected her rough action towards naruto is a good sign for their relationship. but later, i cant help but thinking that i expected too much

3. pain invasion. look at this

take notice of the duration --Click here to view--

the fact is hinata has jumped in to the fight for quite a while. but sakura didnt notice before the hyuuga guy told her. Im not saying that she should have jumped in. but the dissappointing fact is that Sakura could have follow the fight via the hyuuga guy or katsuyu. naruto might get killed but she DID NOT FOLLOW THE FIGHT.
conclusion: if sameone you love being in crucial moment, even if you have faith on him/her, you will atleast wondering how is she/he doing. you get my point here

4. confession at the tent

take notice what the guy said --Click here to view--

if sakura's love for naruto has grown, atleast she would thinking this way "a great guy you say.... sasuke is a criminal. but naruto is a hero you know .. {smiling face}" but. as you can see, it didnt happen

5. NARUTO IS NARUTO his bond with sasuke is as strong as with sakura. THE HELL he will stop chasing sasuke, even sakura asking him. THE HELL he put "winning sakura" to his gutsiness list, hes not that selfish. THE HELL he recognized sakura as 12-13 years old fangirl, he understand her well. THE HELL he can become hokage if he can't even save a friend because of HIS BELOVED HEROINE asking him to stop.

He says it's only the first batch, there's more to come.

Edited by Codus N, 12 July 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[PachucoDesigns]

A real debate is having different opinions but just agree to disagree without flames. That's a debate to me. Of course people are going to nod and agree. Most of the NaruSaku fans think the same or at least have similar thoughts. A NaruHina or SasuSaku fan never goes to this website to make things more interesting. So that's why there's a lack of debate here . Add that to the lack of NaruSaku moments or any SS/NH moments lately(which is understandable. It's a war after all and romance isn't a big issue in the series).

That's what is: Just agree to disagree before it erupts in an argument.

I honestly don't even know why there is a debate thread here at all.

[Verilance]

Ok, guys Ryuken just asked me to post his thoughts: (reason why is because I offered to edit his post so that it doesn't end up being gibberish)



He says it's only the first batch, there's more to come.

interesting, I don't agree with his conclusions however but an interesting pov

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Ok, guys Ryuken just asked me to post his thoughts: (reason why is because I offered to edit his post so that it doesn't end up being gibberish)



He says it's only the first batch, there's more to come.

I REALLY want to debate that. But maybe I should wait until I see his other points .

[Living Lavish]

I honestly don't even know why there is a debate thread here at all.

Stop it. theres been a lot of open minded debates here. Every NS fan has tryed to argue against themselves here after looking for arguements from other people and they work dissect it and debunk it.

So don't say anything like we never had a fair debate here, because thats absolutely not true


SMH at Ryuken's post, those arguements have been destroyed time and time again by Paptala, Miss Soupy etc. At Least post something diferent we haven't seen Codus

Edit: and Ryuken was never a NS fan he claims he was, he would have joined years ago. but he only joined 2 weeks ago and its obvious hes always a NH fan. ever since heres been here he attacks NS and ignores NS evidence we present to him. why do they bother being so ignorant? im sick of it.

Edited by Living Lavish, 12 July 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Tendo Ryuken]

@codus. thanks bro you help me a lot.
@romance girl. i cant wait for debate with you

Edit: and Ryuken was never a NS fan he claims he was, he would have joined years ago. but he only joined 2 weeks ago and its obvious hes always a NH fan. ever since heres been here he attacks NS and ignores NS evidence we present to him. why do they bother being so ignorant? im sick of it.

hmm?! you can say whatever you want. but saying im ignorant? do you have something to prove it? at the very beginning i told you that i will offend narusaku and defend naruhina. i was looking for proofs. and im still looking for proofs. i thought thats a debate for

edit: you said my point has been destroyed. who said? its you guys narusaku fans. i expect a positive debate here. and honestly i dont have enough strength to read the tread through 100 pages. if you dont want to debate, just ignore me

Edited by Ryuken, 12 July 2012 - 10:12 AM.

[Living Lavish]

@codus. thanks bro you help me a lot.



hmm?! you can say whatever you want. but saying im ignorant? do you have something to prove it? at the very beginning i told you that i will offend narusaku and defend naruhina. i was looking for proofs. and im still looking por proofs. i thought thats a debate for

You said your a NS fan before but be honest you were never one to begin with. stop kittening. be real.

Yes your ignorant i read you're posts before against NS but ignore NS arguements that have been debunked that if you were really a fan (like you say you are) would understand. like Sakuras giving up Narutos dream for example. you said there was no proof for that.

Then i said ignorant posts like you'res have been destoryed countless times if you bother to to look back in this thread. you seem to ignore of evidence maybe because you can't defend it basically.

Edited by Living Lavish, 12 July 2012 - 10:10 AM.

[Codus N]

Stop it. theres been a lot of open minded debates here. Every NS fan has tryed to argue against themselves here after looking for arguements from other people and they work dissect it and debunk it.

So don't say anything like we never had a fair debate here, because thats absolutely not true


SMH at Ryuken's post, those arguements have been destroyed time and time again by Paptala, Miss Soupy etc. At Least post something diferent we haven't seen Codus

/sarcasm Oh, really how nice of you to appreciate my efforts, /sarcasm

Ignore her, Ryuken. Don't let it get to you .

What's more important is that you've brought up good points to debate.

Lavish, knock it off. Everyone has a right to say their opinions, if he wants answers and arguments, we'll give him. Simple.

Edited by Codus N, 12 July 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Verilance]

point 1 Sakura knows exactly why Naruto is chasing Sasuke she explained it to Sai during the Orochimaru/Sasuke arc, the whole basis for what she is saying during her confession (why call it fake if Kishimoto himself says she was being honest here?) is she is trying to protect Naruto because she doesn't want him killed

point 2 She didn't hit Konohamaru because they entire point of the episode is that despite her protestation she (as many inner sakura moments prove in part 1) is more like Naruto that she admits publically

compare the panels of the two girls and the two boys an obvious parallel here

Point 3 we don't see the hit again it is for comedy effect if anything it just shows that she is yet to understand that Sai thinks Ino is the opposite

Point 4 I guess you expect Sakura to abandon Tsunade who is under her care at that moment and chase after Naruto who specifically asked that no one interfere

Point 5 She is reflecting that Sasuke whom she has feelings for is not a great guy, never had any problems with that panel you can see the grief in her expression

last point he loves Sakura so much he puts her happiness before his own, he does not consider winning Sakura as a goal he considers making Sakura happy as a goal

my two cents agree or disagree

my bias - I have read the manga backwards and forwards I just cannot see any other possible pairing than NaruSaku if Kishimoto's writing is to remain consistent. Everything else needs way more work to be believable..

Edited by Verilance, 12 July 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I wish I had the opinion of a Japanese fan on that matter. I just want to know if when Hinata said "holding your hand" she meant it was romantic or not.

Is there room for ambiguity in that statement?

I dont care about this chapter kishimoto did not draw this chapter because of some injury on his hand and had to stay a week without doing exercises with his hand so that chapter was like a filler if we could use this expression on a manga, just look at the WSJ issue one chapter before it, there's a message saying this.

"last point he loves Sakura so much he puts her happiness before his own, he does not consider winning Sakura as a goal he considers making Sakura happy as a goal"
Contradiction again, BUSTED!! .
if he puts her happiness before his own so he would accept sakura with another person, making Sakura happy does not means naruto's happiness, because he did not achieved his goal.
but if he wants to make Sakura's happy he must accept the decision that sakura will make, even if she chooses another person or simply give up after he knows that she loves someome else this would be RETARDED!.

2->i dont agree with this point because it's based on guess, so He loves Sakura but the selfless comes from saving her and protecting her(risking his own life) i dont think he would give up trying to win her love just because she loves someome else, Sakura loves sasuke since the series started i dont think he will give up
Naruto knows that Sakura loves Sasuke in a lot of occasions, that hug scene at the hospital and that bench scene and even with sasuke on the village he said that he was going to do what he can to win her loves and affection.
i dont know where u took this statement.

Plus he confessed to Sai after he fulfill his promise he would tell sakura how much he loves her...
So i think your arguments are destroyed.

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[redragon88]

I think the reason the Sakura continuously keeps loving Sasuke despite everything is that she won't be able to move on unless she has proper closure with him. When Sasuke left the village he left Sakura with a bond of love toward him (however immature that love is) that has been kept frozen in time.

So even though she has grown closer to Naruto her bond of Sasuke remains there unable to be changed since Sasuke is not around her. There are many stories in which the love interest of the hero begins by loving another person and throughout the story she changes her perspective of love, but the reason she is able to do it is because she can spend to with the other love interest. The more time she interacts with both love interests she can conclude that her original vision of love was wrong and that the first person she loved wasn't the right one.

The problem is that in this series Sasuke is never around Sakura so she's unable to have proper interaction with him that could help her establish what she would really want from him. Her bond with Sasuke has remained static from the moment he left the village and until she can have more time with him she will be unable to have proper closure about her feelings for him.

It's like Kishimoto said in his interview "Naruto is close, but as expected she... Sasuke". I view that statement as Kishi saying: Naruto is growing closer to Sakura's heart, but as expected she has a bond of love with Sasuke that hasn't been given proper closure. Therefore, not much can happen between Naruto and Sakura before that.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think the reason the Sakura continuously keeps loving Sasuke despite everything is that she won't be able to move on unless she has proper closure with him. When Sasuke left the village he left Sakura with a bond of love toward him (however immature that love is) that has been kept frozen in time.

So even though she has grown closer to Naruto her bond of Sasuke remains there unable to be changed since Sasuke is not around her. There are many stories in which the love interest of the hero begins by loving another person and throughout the story she changes her perspective of love, but the reason she is able to do it is because she can spend to with the other love interest. The more time she interacts with both love interests she can conclude that her original vision of love was wrong and that the first person she loved wasn't the right one.

The problem is that in this series Sasuke is never around Sakura so she's unable to have proper interaction with him that could help her establish what she would really want from him. Her bond with Sasuke has remained static from the moment he left the village and until she can have more time with him she will be unable to have proper closure about her feelings for him.

It's like Kishimoto said in his interview "Naruto is close, but as expected she... Sasuke". I view that statement as Kishi saying: Naruto is growing closer to Sakura's heart, but as expected she has a bond of love with Sasuke that hasn't been given proper closure. Therefore, not much can happen between Naruto and Sakura before that.

There's something wrong with this phrase " "Naruto is close, but as expected she... Sasuke". what is the ... if the interview is using audio i cant imagine someome saying this on a interview kishimoto always stated clearly the things he says like "The frog dies" never see any of his "Messages" with "..." some motherf***** did this to troll.

[Paptala]

1. sakura's confession. lol, you can laugh at me as much as you want. i know you would say you have disscuss about this many times. but. im not talking about the confession itself, but the time sakura dicided to confess. on the conversation between sakura, sizune, sai and shikamaru. theres one thing most of people can't understand about naruto, its his obsession to save sasuke. i said most of people, both in real life and narutoverse, and sadly, including sakura.

sakura, you were with naruto at these times. but why sakura, why you, of all people, can't understand naruto's feeling for sasuke? why you, for sake of 200+ moment with naruto, can't understand that asking him to stop chasing sasuke would really hurt him?

NS guys will say that sakura did that because she love naruto and wanted to resolve her own heart. then let me ask you, when did you realize if you fall in love with someone? the answer is when you can't help but give a lot of though for that person. then, if sakura gave a lot of thought for naruto, how didn't she realize it?
conclusion:at this point, sakura's love for naruto has not grown to the level of understanding yet. for her to unable to understand naruto's feeling for sasuke is unacceptable. and the worst scenario is that she really faking the confession. so, where is the development everyone talking about.. WHERE?

Chapter 474 made is clear that Sakura does know and understand how Naruto feels about Sasuke.
Sai to Naruto: "It probably wasn't easy. She knew it would hurt you. But still...she thought she'd lessen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love for you. But you still said you wanted to save Sasuke. I think that's why she couldn't tell you the truth. She was thinking of your feelings...and probably knew you'd say that."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/4.html
http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/5.html

And then Yamato adds: "But if she knew what Naruto's reaction would be...that means she never meant to tell him in the first place, right?"

Then back to Sai after telling Naruto that she planned to kill Sasuke herself: "She also knows that might make you hate her. That's her way of making up for trying to saddle you with a lifelong burden."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/9.html

Chapter 470 made is clear that despite knowing that it would hurt Naruto, she believed from her conversations with Sai and her experiences before that chasing after Sasuke was putting Naruto not only in great emotional pain, but also putting him at physical risk (of getting hurt by Sasuke or making him easier to capture by the Akatsuki). She felt that Sasuke could no longer be saved. So she puts Naruto first - she is trying very clearly to do what's best for Naruto in the long run, even if she knows it will hurt him and make him angry in the short run. That just goes to show how much she cares.

http://www.mangahere...v50/c470/2.html

The person we haven't seen such understanding from is Hinata. She supposedly understands Naruto a lot from watching him all of those years, and from loving him. Yet, when we ever saw the rookies talking about killing Sasuke, Hinata didn't raise a single objection, and didn't look upset at all by the decision. She's never tried to offer Naruto comfort or support in what is one of the most upsetting and important things/goals in his life right now. Thus, she either doesn't understand a huge part of Naruto, or she does understand and simply doesn't care about hurting Naruto that way. Hell, she didn't even volunteer to go to the summit to help ease Naruto's pain at telling him some of the hardest news he'll ever get.

I'll cover the rest of the points later as I have the time.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Chapter 474 made is clear that Sakura does know and understand how Naruto feels about Sasuke.
Sai to Naruto: "It probably wasn't easy. She knew it would hurt you. But still...she thought she'd lessen your burden by giving up on Sasuke and confessing her love for you. But you still said you wanted to save Sasuke. I think that's why she couldn't tell you the truth. She was thinking of your feelings...and probably knew you'd say that."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/4.html
http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/5.html

And then Yamato adds: "But if she knew what Naruto's reaction would be...that means she never meant to tell him in the first place, right?"

Then back to Sai after telling Naruto that she planned to kill Sasuke herself: "She also knows that might make you hate her. That's her way of making up for trying to saddle you with a lifelong burden."

http://www.mangahere...v51/c474/9.html

Chapter 470 made is clear that despite knowing that it would hurt Naruto, she believed from her conversations with Sai and her experiences before that chasing after Sasuke was putting Naruto not only in great emotional pain, but also putting him at physical risk (of getting hurt by Sasuke or making him easier to capture by the Akatsuki). She felt that Sasuke could no longer be saved. So she puts Naruto first - she is trying very clearly to do what's best for Naruto in the long run, even if she knows it will hurt him and make him angry in the short run. That just goes to show how much she cares.

http://www.mangahere...v50/c470/2.html

The person we haven't seen such understanding from is Hinata. She supposedly understands Naruto a lot from watching him all of those years, and from loving him. Yet, when we ever saw the rookies talking about killing Sasuke, Hinata didn't raise a single objection, and didn't look upset at all by the decision. She's never tried to offer Naruto comfort or support in what is one of the most upsetting and important things/goals in his life right now. Thus, she either doesn't understand a huge part of Naruto, or she does understand and simply doesn't care about hurting Naruto that way. Hell, she didn't even volunteer to go to the summit to help ease Naruto's pain at telling him some of the hardest news he'll ever get.

I'll cover the rest of the points later as I have the time.

We know this but after she put her teammates to sleep she started some improvisations, she wanted to talk with sasuke first she did not believe that he was on akatsuki and was evil.( this show her stubborn side)
She mean to kill sasuke but when she started with improvisations she wasnt clearly what she was going to do, even with kakashi saying that she wanted to kill sasuke she had her doubts i think deep inside she knew that she would not be able to kill sasuke and what bothers me is if she knew that she could not kill sasuke why she go at the first place?
Kill herself?

She wanted to end naruto's suffering but at what cost? her life?
would naruto dont suffer if something happens to her?

Edited by dovahkiin, 12 July 2012 - 01:00 PM.