Hey Lucky i decided to read the twitter you linked some more and he has an analysis of Samurai 8.
https://mobile.twitt...560457974181894
Since some people don't like clicking link i'll just copy it. here:
I was going to originally hold back on doing this until Chapter 6 was officially out, but, with the way Chapter 5 ended, I don't think anything is going to change. As such, I feel confident in writing this:
WHY SAMURAI 8 IS A FAILURE-AN ANALYSIS:
Disclaimer: I want to make clear that I don't want to make this out like I "hate" Samurai 8. On an emotional level, I'm completely neutral. This is simply a discussion piece on Samurai 8 and why I feel it has failed to create an interesting manga. Remember this.
To begin with, I feel the most important thing is the matter of expectations, and how they effect Samurai 8. Remember that, with Samurai 8, we not dealing with some everyday new manga, or even a returning veteran. This is Kishimoto, who wrote the third best-selling manga ever.
Jump knows this. They know this, and they promoted the manga like crazy pre-release. There was a promo video released at Jump Festa, multiple interviews, even a four-page teaser. Samurai 8 entering Jump was supposed to be big news.
The thing is, though, hyping up Samurai 8 in such a way was perhaps the biggest misstep Jump could've made, because all it did was fill people with the idea that Samurai 8 being "fantastic" right out of the gate was guaranteed. The bigger the rise, the bigger the fall, so they say. The thing is, on it's own, Samurai 8 could've been "fine", but fine wouldn't cut it with something of its magnitude. With all Jump has put on its back, I feel right to critique what is presented more harshly.
So, what went wrong?
To begin with, I feel we should first discuss the most glaring point which got the most attention from the start, the art. Starting off, it was known that Samurai 8's main artist would not be Kishimoto, but his former assistant Akira Okubo. While met with some disappointment, most were fine with it because Okubo seemed to replicate Kishi very closely. Seemed being the key word. Let's not beat around the bush, Samurai 8's art is a mess. A clutter of objects and tiny details that lack proper line clarity and shading, every panel is a battle to figure out what the hell is going on, and what your eyes should be looking at. Sometimes, the manga borders on impossible to read, because there's so many "things" happening without connection that it becomes actively strenuous. Those stupid particles get me in particular, there is no reason to include them, and they just make it harder to read.
The thing is, though, the art of Samurai 8 wouldn't be a problem had the story been good. Act-Age, for example, started off with some very shaky art, but the quality the writing kept it on until the art improved. So, what then went wrong concerning the story?
The plot of Samurai 8 is...odd. Not odd in the basic ideas at play, but the way Kishimoto has chosen to frame everything is baffling. The first chapters presents us with this idea of some sweeping epic to save the universe...only to then barely mention that plot-line as we are instead taken through a story-line which is blatantly a retread of Naruto Chapter 1. After that, we have two chapters of what amounts to Hachimaru bumbling around, and then three chapters of training. That's the entire first volume, not having left where it started.
In terms of grounding the story, the world of Samurai 8 feels woefully undefined. Kishi dedicates some time to explain a few specific concepts that are needed for the story, but basic details seem largely absent. Where are we? What is the past of this world? What even are Samurai in this setting? These are some pretty basic details, but over the course of Vol 1, Kishi seems to forgo any of that in favor of showing what Hachimaru is doing. Even a single bit of narration could help, and the lack of it makes this vibrant world feel rather empty.
Without a strong story or setting, the one thing Samurai has that it can use is a strong cast, and this might be where Samurai 8 has failed the worst, because there AREN'T any characters. For reasons which still allude me, Kishi seems to have chosen to forgo cast building entirely and instead just have the "cast" consist of Hachimaru and Daruma. This is a problem became it makes the manga feel tiny, with no expansion being done on the people involved, it feels like this is an epic with no scale.
"Less characters has the effect of making the story feel empty, and makes Hachimaru worse since he has no one to interact with.
To the "forced exposition" argument, I feel a simple bit of narration on where the hell we are what Samurai are would help massively.
I simply have no idea on what's going on frankly because there's so little establishing."
Thing is, though, I feel like all of this can be overlooked, if readers were able to connect with the manga, where able to feel something towards it. Which brings me to Samurai 8's biggest failing.
Hachimaru.
The thing which is critical to remember here is just how essential the protagonist is for a Jump manga working. The protagonist is more than just the lead, they are the core element of the narrative. A protagonist who doesn't work is a failure, and Hachimaru is, without question, a failure.
"When constructing a battle manga, perhaps the most essential element about making readers interested in it is the act of tying the protagonist into the narrative of the series on more than a surface level. A hero who readers connect to is a story they believe in."
The main problem with Hachimaru is that, simply put, he's barely a character. His "journey" as it were, is one which began and ended in Chapter 1, because his story has nothing to do with the long-term goal. He's a cipher, someone who stands around in the story, yet does nothing. Perhaps the thing that signifies this best is that, as of Chapter 5, Hachimaru still has literally no clue about Pandora's Box, the entire basis of the story. What are his goals, and how do they tie to the rest of the manga? None of that is provided. Without a hero who readers can truly connect to, Samurai 8 becomes little more than noise. It's a manga where some random kid we know little about goes on a journey involving completely unknown elements, and that doesn't make an interesting manga...it makes it a chore.
Now, I'm not shaming people for being fans of Samurai 8, even if I'm hesitant to believe they genuinely are supporting it out of love. I'm mere giving my case on what I believe Samurai 8 has become because, honestly, I can't easily see it fixing itself.
That's what Samurai 8 is, to me at least. A work which clearly wants to recapture the magic of Naruto, but forgets that such things are impossible to replicate. Feel free to leave your own thoughts in the comments.
New addition I'd like to add; what is with Okubo's art? I know I didn't want to make a massive issue of it, but I feel like the fact that his art is so much worse than Kishi's raw drafts is really noticeable."
Oh he did a follow up talking about Kishi.
"The thing that is perhaps most relevant when discussing Samurai 8 from a meta perspective is how Kishi's past influenced him. He had wanted to do a samurai manga since the early days, but was discouraged from doing so because of the success of Rurouni Kenshin and Blade of the Immortal, and had a deep affinity for Sci-Fi since watching AKIRA in his high-school days. This is important, because it signifies that Samurai 8 is a deep passion for Kishi as a person.
Compounded with that, Kishi has mentioned in interviews how his age, being 44 now, has influenced him, especially regarding his family. He's also mentioned that father-son bonds are a huge part of the story, and, indeed, the relationship with Hachimaru and his father is very relevant. And he's said that he wants Samurai 8 to be story kids connect to. It all speaks to one idea to me, that Hachimaru is supposed to be a fictionalized version of Kishimoto's own son.
That makes a lot of sense to me, because Hachimaru is downright stereotypical as a young boy protagonist, full of life and energy that, even though it makes him completely empty as an actual character, it comes off as an intensely likable projection of a father towards their child. Hachimaru is almost this nostalgic photograph more than a human being, someone born out of ideals rather than narrative. Kishi is effectively placing his own child in a narrative with ideas close to him.
It's been commonly speculated by JP fans that Samurai 8 lacks an editor, and I think that's the root of the issue. Kishi is so obsessed with making a manga which speaks to his very specific feelings...that he's forgotten how to do a manga which appeal to others, with no one willing to correct him because of his own status. That's...kinda solemn, honestly, and makes me see Samurai 8 in a rather melancholy light.
I dunno, you guys thoughts?"
Well, since then they added Anna the Love interest who is either Sakura heavily influence by Hinata or a Hinata Kishi actually cares enough to put some effort in. There also amnesia guy and his annoying lackey...That suddenly remind me of Harashima and Marada for some reason...I think that Samurai Yamato went back to his lady once they left the planet; so he is gone. Oh and the Dog...I keep forgetting about the dog.
The manga spent ten chapters beating it into the readers head Anna and Hachi are getting together.
They keep explaining the Samurai though it is still confusing.
I like the art personally but I had to pretty much give up on knowing where that dog is in the panel.
The main character story is complete by the end of the first story, was also a problem with Boruto. But at least with Hachi they haven't abandon the plot find the box and its keys to redo the SNS conflict yet. Also they did give Hachi a reason to go after the box...it just took over twelve chapters to get there.
Oh I finally found the guys opinion of Boruto because person who called themselves Princess Himawari asked him:
"That's much worse, but the manga's reputation has well and truly sunk, so it's not that much worth discussing."
Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 October 2019 - 10:37 AM.
