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#221 alexander

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 12:29 PM

Development isn't the sole drive for an good romance. You can't just have development on it's own, it needs to be GOOD development. I found this post on tumblr that really resonates with me as of why this ending irks me so much:

 

"There is no change in my thoughts. Bryke barely develops their so-called Korrasami romance. (But then again they are on a track record for that). They made it CLEAR from the get go they wanted their shallow problematic Makorra. Always making excuses for it and Mako and Korra and their soap opera triangle drama. 

They did not do this to be progressive. They didn’t care about it, they wanted their drama infested triangles and Makorra.
Book 1 was originally all that was going to be it, never forget that.
Mako and Korra are supposedly “realistic” and “soulmates”. Never forget that. They tried defending their love triangles and Mako and Korra’s selfish actions in the name of their TRUE OTP, Makorra, never forget that.
Korrasami has jumped in popularity to the most popular pairing now, and Korra’s ratings had dropped so Nick pulled it off air. Keep that in mind.
Bryke, the guys who claimed back in ATLA would never sacrifice what they wanted for the sake of pandering to the fans…did exactly that.
They want you guys to stop criticizing. They want you to forget all that crap they put you through. They are waving korrasami in your face like it’s a shiny new toy in hopes you’ll forget that they kept breaking all your toys.
And what’s sad is it’s actually working. People are forgetting why they were mad at Bryke and Korra and all they put us through and all the disappointments all because that shiny new toy. People are praising them and they are lapping it up and spewing crap because they managed to get away with bs’ing us and are back to people kissing their butts. They used to be on top of the world, but then were knocked down when we realized what poor writers they are. So instead of trying they kept throwing new shiny toys at us and hope it would distract us from that. One of those being forcing korrasami."
 
Long story short, the only reason Korrasami happened was because Bryke was aware of how popular it became. They can say they shipped it from day one, but I don't believe them, just like you guys don't believe when Kishimoto makes his excuses. I still think Korrasami is an poorly developed romance, were Asami sole existance is to atend to all of Korra needs, because Korra herself could never be bothered to ask Asami how she feels or what she wants. Never mind Korra totally justified cheating that she never apologized for. 

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#222 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 01:28 PM

Didn't they talk about the whole relationship with Mako in season 3? I remember seeing them talking about it and they were like "Not mad?" and stuff. I thought that was nicely done, especially the whole "Never really bond a girl-friend till now". It's way more geniune than NH, that's infinite percent sure.

To each of their own. Agree to disagree.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 23 December 2014 - 01:29 PM.


#223 alexander

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 01:51 PM

Didn't they talk about the whole relationship with Mako in season 3? I remember seeing them talking about it and they were like "Not mad?" and stuff. I thought that was nicely done, especially the whole "Never really bond a girl-friend till now". It's way more geniune than NH, that's infinite percent sure.

To each of their own. Agree to disagree.

 

You can't get any lower then NH. My main issue here is the past stigma of this relationship. How would anyone feel if someone stole your boyfriend/girlfriend and then that person that stole them from you showed romantic interested? Would anyone be ok with that? I think an better ending would be if Korra, Asami and Mako either walked their separate ways or at least just stayed as friends.


Edited by alexander, 23 December 2014 - 01:52 PM.

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#224 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 02:08 PM

 
You can't get any lower then NH. My main issue here is the past stigma of this relationship. How would anyone feel if someone stole your boyfriend/girlfriend and then that person that stole them from you showed romantic interested? Would anyone be ok with that? I think an better ending would be if Korra, Asami and Mako either walked their separate ways or at least just stayed as friends.

Well, I see what you mean. To be honest, I shouldn't talk anymore about it because I didn't see it yet but I have seen tons of stuff related to it and it comes off normal. Maybe not the best you can get but I can't see it as a bad thing. I see it as a choice that is not unnecessary but not a must. I will go back here and see if I can fully agreed on this.

But the reason why I'm here is because I feel like they did explain well enough about the whole series. Now you can argue as an excuse but at least they acknowledge every aspects of the story and it doesn't sway away from something that said, "I screwed you guys on believing one path." It's been a simple journey that isn't trying to insult your intelligence. It's all there. The end does have a backup, strong or weak, rather than "You know, MaKorra got it right there but swerved by something that don't really make them who they are." That's why it's acceptable than what occurred in Naruto, especially their extremely poor attempt to established NS "can't work".

So in the meantime, you can debate with others, not me, because I really don't have the right to debate something I didn't see. I will come back here after I watched them. That's all I have to say.

#225 sushi.

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 04:21 PM

 

You can't get any lower then NH. My main issue here is the past stigma of this relationship. How would anyone feel if someone stole your boyfriend/girlfriend and then that person that stole them from you showed romantic interested? Would anyone be ok with that? I think an better ending would be if Korra, Asami and Mako either walked their separate ways or at least just stayed as friends.

The best would be if they don't hold grudges against eachother. They started off on the wrong foot, fine. I really wanted Bryke to explore Asami's bitterness, and how emotionally dependent she is on others. But I accept that she has let it go now, and imo, Korra is only responsible for the first kiss. Everything that happened afterwards is Mako's mess. I understand that sharing a life with someone means so much more than simple friendship. But if Asami and Korra could let go what happened between them and be friends(and if I read it right, you don't have a problem with that?), they shouldn't hold back on exploring if they could be something more.


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#226 luffyq1

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 04:47 PM

 

Development isn't the sole drive for an good romance. You can't just have development on it's own, it needs to be GOOD development. I found this post on tumblr that really resonates with me as of why this ending irks me so much:

 

"There is no change in my thoughts. Bryke barely develops their so-called Korrasami romance. (But then again they are on a track record for that). They made it CLEAR from the get go they wanted their shallow problematic Makorra. Always making excuses for it and Mako and Korra and their soap opera triangle drama. 

They did not do this to be progressive. They didn’t care about it, they wanted their drama infested triangles and Makorra.
Book 1 was originally all that was going to be it, never forget that.
Mako and Korra are supposedly “realistic” and “soulmates”. Never forget that. They tried defending their love triangles and Mako and Korra’s selfish actions in the name of their TRUE OTP, Makorra, never forget that.
Korrasami has jumped in popularity to the most popular pairing now, and Korra’s ratings had dropped so Nick pulled it off air. Keep that in mind.
Bryke, the guys who claimed back in ATLA would never sacrifice what they wanted for the sake of pandering to the fans…did exactly that.
They want you guys to stop criticizing. They want you to forget all that crap they put you through. They are waving korrasami in your face like it’s a shiny new toy in hopes you’ll forget that they kept breaking all your toys.
And what’s sad is it’s actually working. People are forgetting why they were mad at Bryke and Korra and all they put us through and all the disappointments all because that shiny new toy. People are praising them and they are lapping it up and spewing crap because they managed to get away with bs’ing us and are back to people kissing their butts. They used to be on top of the world, but then were knocked down when we realized what poor writers they are. So instead of trying they kept throwing new shiny toys at us and hope it would distract us from that. One of those being forcing korrasami."
 
Long story short, the only reason Korrasami happened was because Bryke was aware of how popular it became. They can say they shipped it from day one, but I don't believe them, just like you guys don't believe when Kishimoto makes his excuses. I still think Korrasami is an poorly developed romance, were Asami sole existance is to atend to all of Korra needs, because Korra herself could never be bothered to ask Asami how she feels or what she wants. Never mind Korra totally justified cheating that she never apologized for. 

 

i do remember that lok was suppose to end with season 1, which is why the pace was so fast with only 11-12 episodes, right?


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#227 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 04:49 PM

i do remember that lok was suppose to end with season 1, which is why the pace was so fast with only 11-12 episodes, right?

I blame Nick.

#228 trang95

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:02 PM

i do remember that lok was suppose to end with season 1, which is why the pace was so fast with only 11-12 episodes, right?

... Actually, Bryke knew there would be a second season in 2011 already:

http://korraspirit.t...e-i-always-hear

tumblr_ngyd1h2mH71rvud6oo1_1280.jpg

 

I thought I’d share this because I always hear people say that “Book 1 was rushed because Bryke weren’t told Book 2 is coming until after it was finished”.

I got sent this signed script from KorraNation before for Book 2 Episode 1 and its dated September 21st 2011.

Book one ‘Air’ premiered April 14th 2012 and ended June 23rd 2012. Since the Book 2 script is dated 2011, this must mean that Bryke and the team knew they were getting a Book 2 before Book 1 even started.

This isn’t really relevant to anything, I just thought I’d share this.


G . I . N . T . A . M .A

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#229 alexander

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:10 PM

The best would be if they don't hold grudges against eachother. They started off on the wrong foot, fine. I really wanted Bryke to explore Asami's bitterness, and how emotionally dependent she is on others. But I accept that she has let it go now, and imo, Korra is only responsible for the first kiss. Everything that happened afterwards is Mako's mess. I understand that sharing a life with someone means so much more than simple friendship. But if Asami and Korra could let go what happened between them and be friends(and if I read it right, you don't have a problem with that?), they shouldn't hold back on exploring if they could be something more.

 

If they moved on and stayed as friends, that would be fine by me. Clean slate and all of that. The problem is that I think Mako and Korra became unworthy of Asami after their past actions towards her. Hell, I would be fine with an Bosami ending. At least Bolin never hurted her. Korrasami to me is like, for example, if Sakura started dating Naruto, then suddenly Ino seduced him and stole him away from Sakura, then later, Ino dumps Naruto and tries to make an move on Sakura instead. That just doesn't feel right.


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#230 luffyq1

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:14 PM

... Actually, Bryke knew there would be a second season in 2011 already:
http://korraspirit.t...e-i-always-hear
tumblr_ngyd1h2mH71rvud6oo1_1280.jpg

this actually makes more sense:
 
"You’re forgetting that book 1 WAS finished. The pre-production was already written as the voice work and the story boarding. They were already in production when Nick tipped them off that they might allow more seasons. However, it wasn’t greenlit yet. They didn’t know if they were going to go through with it. But they still were working on the franchise as if they were going to. So when Book 1 was airing, Nick greenlit and ordered more episodes. They then finished any pre-production and went into production. Since it was so late, they had to go with a different Studio. And it took a year for it to air. Which is about the same time to finish one complete episode. So, yes, they did initially intend for it to be a mini-series. That’s how it was written in 2010."
 
here's more:

 http://en.wikipedia....Legend_of_Korra

"The Legend of Korra was originally conceived as a miniseries consisting of twelve episodes. It was extended into a series of fifty-two episodes separated into four seasons ("books"), each of which tells a separate story.
 
The Legend of Korra was initially conceived as a twelve-episode miniseries. Nickelodeon declined the creators' pitch for an Avatar: The Last Airbender follow-up animated movie based on what then became the three-part comics The PromiseThe Search and The Rift, choosing instead to expand Korra to 26 episodes. [/size]The series was expanded further in July 2012 to 52 episodes. These episodes are grouped into four separate seasons ("Books") composed of twelve to fourteen episodes ("Chapters") each, with each season telling a stand-alone story. Beginning with episode 9 of season 3, new episodes are first distributed through the Internet rather than broadcast. The Legend of Korra concluded with the fourth season."


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#231 Nami

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:17 PM

Korrasami confirmed guys
 
 
http://bryankonietzk...rate-it-embrace
http://michaeldanted...orra-and-asamis

 
I'm literally fuming right now. To think I used to like them so much and now they do this. They stooped down to Kishi's level trying to explain via tumblr or interviews what should have been clear from the damn story. But of well I'll just post two quotes that sum  up my thoughts perfectly and add some comments so go read if you're interested. If not, just consider it me blowing off some steam. I'd wrap it all in spoiler tags, but I'm not sure how to do that.
 

I am seriously disappointed in you, both as storytellers and as individuals interacting within this fandom.
I am disappointed in you for validating the worst parts of this fandom.  When you say, “If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens,” you are propping up a group of individuals who have, since the very beginning of this show, used the specter of social justice to be cruel to other fans.  And the worst thing is, in saying that, you demonstrate a lack of understanding of the final product you worked so hard to put on screen.
Would people have been less surprised by Korra ending up with Asami if Asami had been male?  That’s probably true.  But I don’t think anyone would support that ship; without the subversive factor, it’d be completely obvious how rote and lacking in substance the ship really is.
By choosing to take this path, you turned Asami into a Shallow Love Interest.  And, somehow, you failed to notice that you’d kept giving all of the substance that Korra’s love interest should have gotten to Mako, even though you believed that you had written him and Korra apart permanently.
It truly astounds me how a group of people I respected could misunderstand what they committed to cel so badly.
You failed to write Asami as a main character in every season past Book 1.  Her struggle to save her company in Book 2 was really about Mako and Varrick, while her main role was to provide a romantic obstacle for a ship you never intended to put back together.  She didn’t have an arc in Book 3, other than to become Korra’s caretaker at the end.  Her forgiveness of her father ended up being about Hiroshi so his sacrifice at the end of the series would be meaningful, and her feelings about his death were used to push her towards relationship with someone who had consistently shown little response to her affection.
You failed to make Asami’s feelings matter, and you failed to make them matter toKorra at crucial junctures.  You could have shown Korra doing something for Asami when Asami saw her father die in front of her eyes.  Instead, Korra remains cold and business-like — “Hiroshi’s plan worked. There’s our opening” — and Asami disappears for the rest of the fight.
You failed to keep Mako from stealing all of the scenes that could have provided emotional resonance for Asami’s relationship with Korra.  You showed Korra standing still while Asami hugged her, then moving in to hug Mako.  You showed Asami failing to help Korra deal with her confusion (to the point that Tenzin had to show up to help Korra figure things out), then let Mako go with Korra on the trip that actually helped her get better.  You showed Mako looking concerned for Korra when she disappeared, while Asami wandered aimlessly in the background.  You gave Korra and Mako a resolution that could easily have been interpreted romantically given Korra’s expression almost immediately before trying to convince us that Korra really had feelings for Asami.
You failed to make Asami into someone with whom Korra could have a healthy relationship.  Asami is simply too fragile for Korra to have ever been allowed to act like Korra around her, and it shows in all of their interactions.  When she’s around Asami, Korra is constantly forced to hold back, whether because Asami can’t take Korra hitting the punching bags she’s holding or because even slight disagreements seriously hurt Asami’s feelings.  By sticking Korra with Asami, you took away part of what made Korra Korra.
You failed to make Asami work as a Katara-type emotional support.  Korra is not Aang; she doesn’t respond to gentle support the way Aang did (which I thought was the point of having Toph and Zaheer being the ones to actually help Korra figure things out).  Asami kept trying and trying to help Korra and never actually did her any good.  How is being in a relationship going to work out any better?
You failed to realize that, instead of showing Mako and Korra as unambiguously uninterested in future romance, you kept focusing on details that suggested that Mako was still interested (and even added a few that implied that Korra might be, too).  And, honestly, I can’t understand how you could possibly not realize that keeping Mako single for three years and have him continuously irritated by Wu trying to woo Korra wouldn’t suggest continued interest.  It would have been easy to show that he’d moved on, but you failed to do that, and instead implied that there was still relationship potential right up to Mako’s last scene.
You failed to realize that “respecting, admiring, and inspiring” is not mutually exclusive with romance.  In fact, it’s the best way to ensure that a romancedoesn’t turn one of its participants into a trophy.  All of those things could have existed within the context of a Makorra relationship.  They don’t exist in Korrasami, though; Asami might respect, admire, and be inspired by Korra, but there’s no indication that things work the other way around.  As you wrote her, Asami is a trophy that you gave to Korra in the name of “representation;” her own feelings matter so little that her grief at her father’s death got transformed into shipping fodder and she didn’t even get to look worried when Korra was missing.
(You failed to realize that, in placing so much emphasis on Mako and Korra’s mutual respect, admiration, and inspiration, you ensured that they would be the het equivalent of every slash pair in genre fiction.  You can’t expect people to invest in a romance when the characters’ bond with someone else gets a hundred times more attention)
And, most importantly, you failed to understand that the show you made was not the show you thought you made, then accused your fans of heteronormativity for reading what’s actually there.
You should have stuck with your initial plan of not having Korra end up with anyone.  Not because there’s something inherently wrong with having Korra end up with Asami, but because confirming that ship turns an enormous amount of subconscious narrative choices into huge mistakes.
You say you didn’t want a female character who was little more than a trophy to be won?  Well, I’m sorry to say, that’s exactly what you made, even if the lead she ended up with was female rather than male.  As a secondary character, Asami would have been functional.  As a romantic lead, she’s a terrible disappointment, and Korra’s story deserves better.

 
This is from the tumblr used ikkinthekitsune and I have to say she is spot on. I literally love her so much because she is one of the rare people that don't like the ending but is not afraid to tell it like it is even though tumblr is a very very inhospitable place for everyone that is not a Korrasami shipper. The best part is she isn't even a Makorra shipper, so she's not salty as many fans call Makorra shippers, she just supported them because it seemed like the most logical ending story-wise. Well if anything good came out of the mess with Kishi and Bryke, it's that I finally learned that salty also has a connotative meaning. i was not aware of it before fans started calling me that.  :pinch:
 

 

Sorry guys, this is a really long post. Basically me ragging on Bryan Konietzko, who I love with all my heart, but I’m really just very angry right now.
This picture is my answer to Bryan’s admission of Korrasami being canon.
This relationship was given a more intimate, meaningful moment than any single Korrasami scene. I understand now that Bryan and Mike intended from the outset of book 4, at the very least, to have Korra and Asami be a couple, and yet they had very little development - Asami was just ‘there’. Maybe Bryan is right, maybe I was looking through my ‘hetero lens’, but even through it, I saw so much potential for Kuvira and Korra.
Many people didn’t see that the writers were aiming for Korra and Asami to be a couple - even the Korrasami shippers themselves didn’t expect to win! - and I think it’s pretty crappy to blame the fans for that. It is a writer’s job to challenge whatever ‘lenses’ the viewers bring with them when they watch a show.
They had an entire episode to run only clips and they chose to run Mako’s one-man romance novel centered on how much he loved Korra. They could have shown Tenzin’s journey through the show, or how far Asami had come since book 1 - that would have rocked; the clips episode being shown first from Asami’s POV, and then Korra’s. It would have helped people get the message. Instead, they chose to showcase Mako’s memories next to Korra’s. They missed an opportunity to challenge this ‘hetero lens’.
They missed it again in making Asami’s only sacrifice in the finale the loss of her father. It gave Hiroshi the credit for getting team Avatar into the mega suit, instead of giving Asami something to be thanked for, and it made her a character for Korra to console instead of thank at the end, creating an imbalance in the give-take of a relationship, right before it became romantic. If Asami had been in a hummingbird with, say, Zhu Li, and she ejected Zhu Li so she could keep cutting, and then miraculously survived against all odds, with an injury or two - see ‘Mako’s arm’ - Korra could be genuinely amazed and have a zoom-in moment of realization that would - again - BREAK THROUGH THE HETERO LENS.
We could also have had a worried Asami looking for Korra after the huge spirit blast, instead of a zoom in on Mako. I love Mako, I love him getting screen time, but book 4 would have been the right time to give him less screen time and let him fade out of the main plot. Heck, you could have given him a cute girlfriend, even if she just got one scene where she brings him lunch and gives him a kiss. Or let Mako date Wu, even. Wu genuinely loves Mako, and I think Mako loves him too. That would create a nice little aha moment when Wu mentions dissolving the monarchy.
If two bisexual characters is good - four is awesome!
I’m also bummed about Bolin being completely ignored at the end of the finale. Korra gets the girl, Mako gets a pat on the back, and Bolin gets … ? To marry a couple of other people? Plus his girlfriend didn’t die? He was part of team avatar too, and he deserved at least a close-up. They could’ve thrown him in to stand next to Mako when Korra thanked him, and then Bolin could get a ‘hey, thanks for not letting Mako kill himself’.
I loved Zhurrick, but if any couple needed a pre-battle ‘I might die so lets make out’ scene, it could have been Korra and Asami. No kissing, of course, but we could have had a hug, even some tears. And their wedding, great as it was, took screen time that could have been allotted to better defining Asami and Korra’s relationship.
Korra could have formally introduced Asami to her dad! That would have CHALLENGED THE HETERO LENS.
I don’t know if this was just bad writing, or budget problems, or just a bunch of people who didn’t know how to plan out a queer ending, but I think it’s pretty crappy of Bryan to blame the fans - and flat out call them homophobic - for their not seeing something the writers had the opportunity to make clearer. As they say, ‘a joke isn’t funny if you have to explain it’, and in the same vein, you don’t get credit for writing something if you had to explain what you wrote.
Korra could have written more than just one letter to Asami. Asami could have gone with Korra to the south pole after her poisoning. Asami could have gone with Korra to Zaheer’s prison. Asami could have had the flashback episode to reflect on her feelings for her gal pal - not enough scenes for that? Well kitten, Bryan, you should have written some! Asami could have had so much more development. We could have gotten Korra commenting on another girl being attractive, to point out subtly that she is also attracted to girls - someone who is not Asami, because everyone compliments their friends.
The fact is, they wrote Korra as straight in book 1. They changed her sexuality later on, and while that can happen in real life, there would be a period of questioning for the character.
I just think the fans shouldn’t be blamed for assuming a character is straight, when the character was written as straight, and we were not provided a ‘wait am I queer’ moment.
So basically, everyone who expected Makorra to happen again got screwed into expecting it, and everyone who wanted Korrasami didn’t expect it at all.
All of the fans got screwed.
I award you no points.

 

This is from xrhiax. I think it's enough to say that most of the people who I knew and who were not Makorra shippers were convinced that Makorra was going to be canon. They might have hated it, disliked it, shipped another couple but everyone was sure that it was going to be Makorra of nothing. So much for Korrasami being that obvious. They might have had subtle development, but sorry, that's too subtle for my taste. And Avatar is never a series that is really really subtle with romance. No we could all argue until the cows come home about how long Korrasami really was planned (which I think wasn't that long, since they wouldn't push the damn Makorra hints up to the last few minutes) but it wouldn't make any difference since it's canon either way. It's just like with NH, it's over and done but there will always be fans who will be unsatisfied about it because it makes little to no sense.

Oh and don't get me started on the hetero lens. Bryan, I have no damn hetero lens because I'm not hetero!!! I'm open and usually perceptive to any kind of romance if it's developed well from the start and fits with the narrative!

 

All in all, there is only two ways I would have liked Korrasami:

a) If it was developed properly and made actual sense. If they really wanted to push the envelope at the last minute, they could have explored it with some minor character that wouldn't need so much development since the show doesn't focus on them often at all. 

 

b) If I weren't so invested in this series and never analyzed it so carefully. If I watched it occasionally, I would definitely go, omg, good for them, about time somebody did something daring to raise awareness! But honestly, they way it is done not makes me think it does more harm than good.

 

And that's it. I'm really tired of discussing this. I really should step away  from both the Naruto and LoK franchise because the only thing this does is agitate and depress me. Oh if I had known I would be spending Christmas this emotionally ruined, I never would have followed the damn things. Nothing but completed series for me from now on.


Edited by Nami, 23 December 2014 - 05:20 PM.


#232 trang95

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:42 PM

 
I'm literally fuming right now. To think I used to like them so much and now they do this. They stooped down to Kishi's level trying to explain via tumblr or interviews what should have been clear from the damn story. But of well I'll just post two quotes that sum  up my thoughts perfectly and add some comments so go read if you're interested. If not, just consider it me blowing off some steam. I'd wrap it all in spoiler tags, but I'm not sure how to do that.
 

 
This is from the tumblr used ikkinthekitsune and I have to say she is spot on. I literally love her so much because she is one of the rare people that don't like the ending but is not afraid to tell it like it is even though tumblr is a very very inhospitable place for everyone that is not a Korrasami shipper. The best part is she isn't even a Makorra shipper, so she's not salty as many fans call Makorra shippers, she just supported them because it seemed like the most logical ending story-wise. Well if anything good came out of the mess with Kishi and Bryke, it's that I finally learned that salty also has a connotative meaning. i was not aware of it before fans started calling me that.  :pinch:
 

 

This is from xrhiax. I think it's enough to say that most of the people who I knew and who were not Makorra shippers were convinced that Makorra was going to be canon. They might have hated it, disliked it, shipped another couple but everyone was sure that it was going to be Makorra of nothing. So much for Korrasami being that obvious. They might have had subtle development, but sorry, that's too subtle for my taste. And Avatar is never a series that is really really subtle with romance. No we could all argue until the cows come home about how long Korrasami really was planned (which I think wasn't that long, since they wouldn't push the damn Makorra hints up to the last few minutes) but it wouldn't make any difference since it's canon either way. It's just like with NH, it's over and done but there will always be fans who will be unsatisfied about it because it makes little to no sense.

Oh and don't get me started on the hetero lens. Bryan, I have no damn hetero lens because I'm not hetero!!! I'm open and usually perceptive to any kind of romance if it's developed well from the start and fits with the narrative!

 

All in all, there is only two ways I would have liked Korrasami:

a) If it was developed properly and made actual sense. If they really wanted to push the envelope at the last minute, they could have explored it with some minor character that wouldn't need so much development since the show doesn't focus on them often at all. 

 

b) If I weren't so invested in this series and never analyzed it so carefully. If I watched it occasionally, I would definitely go, omg, good for them, about time somebody did something daring to raise awareness! But honestly, they way it is done not makes me think it does more harm than good.

 

And that's it. I'm really tired of discussing this. I really should step away  from both the Naruto and LoK franchise because the only thing this does is agitate and depress me. Oh if I had known I would be spending Christmas this emotionally ruined, I never would have followed the damn things. Nothing but completed series for me from now on.

I agree with most of what you have posted. Now that I have had time to reflect on the ending and getting used to KorrAsami being cannon, I honestly would have had accepted this couple if Bryke had decided to develop this couple better. There's no argument that KorrAsami was more popular. I don't know where you live or what your fandom in your country ships, but here where I live, I've noticed how MaKorra is literally hated among many fans, very often b/c of this stupid love triangle that made everyone look bad- especially Mako. People simply viewed KorrAsami to be a more functional couple.

Members in here keep listing to me those scenes that were apparently subtle hints to the romantic development KorrAsami had- then why the heck did the ending caught so many fans off guard? I'm aware that it was a difficult situation for Bryke and Nick to include more romantic  tension b/w the two of them considering it was a kids show (I have no idea what age group actually watches Korra), but they should have given them more more intimate moments somehow.

I shipped MaKorra b/c it was so painfully obvious to me. All the hints, the storyline... The way I feel is that I got trolled hard by Bryke. While I do accept Bryke's words on KorrAsami being cannon, it is ironic that many of us needed tumblr posts and facebook articles as a proof to see this as cannon. But whenever I'm on tumblr or in this thread, I wonder if my critique even reaches anyone simply b/c of my sexual orientation (which is straight).


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#233 Nami

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:54 PM

I agree with most of what you have posted. Now that I have had time to reflect on the ending and getting used to KorrAsami being cannon, I honestly would have had accepted this couple if Bryke had decided to develop this couple better. There's no argument that KorrAsami was more popular. I don't know where you live or what your fandom in your country ships, but here where I live, I've noticed how MaKorra is literally hated among many fans, very often b/c of this stupid love triangle that made everyone look bad- especially Mako. People simply viewed KorrAsami to be a more functional couple.

Members in here keep listing to me those scenes that were apparently subtle hints to the romantic development KorrAsami had- then why the heck did the ending caught so many fans off guard? I'm aware that it was a difficult situation for Bryke and Nick to include more romantic  tension b/w the two of them considering it was a kids show (I have no idea what age group actually watches Korra), but they should have given them more more intimate moments somehow.

I shipped MaKorra b/c it was so painfully obvious to me. All the hints, the storyline... The way I feel is that I got trolled hard by Bryke. While I do accept Bryke's words on KorrAsami being cannon, it is ironic that many of us needed tumblr posts and facebook articles as a proof to see this as cannon. But whenever I'm on tumblr or in this thread, I wonder if my critique even reaches anyone simply b/c of my sexual orientation (which is straight).

 

Yeah, being straight, you must view the world through your heterosexual lens so it's impossible to accept anything else. Oh Bryan, Bryan... But honesty, it doesn't matter. I'm bi, my friends are gay and we all get hated on and flamed equally because of our opinions.

 

And yeah, I don't really get why the damn triangle was so focused on and why was there so much drama if they decided to settle with another pairing. I think everyone at this point will admit that the romance in every Book is stupidly done. They say they wanted to have fun with it, but all they did was make this fandom an extremely inhospitable place and make sure that no other aspect of the show would be discussed for years to come. Which is sad, because it had so many things going for it.


Edited by Nami, 23 December 2014 - 05:54 PM.


#234 Radra

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:08 PM

And some people think these guys are better than Kishimoto?  :twitch:

 

 

Their comments(Bryan and Michael) just confirmed to me that they basically just came up with stuff as they went along with the show. That is why we now have two girls who never showed signs of being bisexual end up in a romantic relationship that was apparently "hinted in two seasons" lol.

 

The proof is even when one of them talked about Asami's character on how she was supposed to be part of the Equalist back in season one.

 

You see, in season 1, Makkorra was the obvious pairing I spotted the moment the characters where introduced. However, they had Mako go out with Asami. That was fine because I actually assumed that Asami was "bad". I assumed she would turn out to be working for the equalists which will give Mako reason to dump her ass and go for Korra.

 

From reading their comments (Bryan, I think), it turns out I wasn't too far off with my assumption. They however changed their minds half way and made Asami a good person which was fine until her character had to suffer for it. 

 

The result was the nonsense we got. Here is a summary of the LOK romance now.

 

  1.  Mako took a huge dump on Asami's feelings.
  2.  Korra also took a nice hot dump on Asami's feelings too. 
  3. Asami went full retard and kissed the guy who took a lovely dump on her feelings.
  4. Mako and Korra break up because their romance was founded on the huge pile of kitten they took on Asami's feelings.
  5. Korra and Asami become close because of their kitten situation.
  6.  Korra and Asami become canon because.... why the hell not?

 

A+ Romance guys. Definitely better than Kishimoto lol   :zaru:  



#235 Nar123

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:41 PM

And some people think these guys are better than Kishimoto?  :twitch:
 
 
Their comments(Bryan and Michael) just confirmed to me that they basically just came up with stuff as they went along with the show. That is why we now have two girls who never showed signs of being bisexual end up in a romantic relationship that was apparently "hinted in two seasons" lol.
 
The proof is even when one of them talked about Asami's character on how she was supposed to be part of the Equalist back in season one.
 
You see, in season 1, Makkorra was the obvious pairing I spotted the moment the characters where introduced. However, they had Mako go out with Asami. That was fine because I actually assumed that Asami was "bad". I assumed she would turn out to be working for the equalists which will give Mako reason to dump her ass and go for Korra.
 
From reading their comments (Bryan, I think), it turns out I wasn't too far off with my assumption. They however changed their minds half way and made Asami a good person which was fine until her character had to suffer for it. 
 
The result was the nonsense we got. Here is a summary of the LOK romance now.
 

  •  Mako took a huge dump on Asami's feelings.
  •  Korra also took a nice hot dump on Asami's feelings too. 
  • Asami went full retard and kissed the guy who took a lovely dump on her feelings.
  • Mako and Korra break up because their romance was founded on the huge pile of kitten they took on Asami's feelings.
  • Korra and Asami become close because of their sh*tty situation.
  •  Korra and Asami become canon because.... why the hell not?
 
A+ Romance guys. Definitely better than Kishimoto lol   :zaru:  

They are better than kishimoto.
No one can come close to Kishimoto's level of ruined endings

Korrasami had build up, if you didn't saw it, as the authors put it, you were seeing the series through hetero lens.
Makorra was finished at season 2, it was the canon pair for book 1 but when they found out Nick wanted more seasons instead of animating "the search", separating mako and korra in season 2 was their main idea.
Bryan said he was the first Korrasami shipper back at season 1 he toyed with the idea. He build both of them as very close friends in season 3 and added more hints about the progression of their relationship in season 4, their past relationship with mako was just one of the many things that made the two related


Seriously guys, makorra could have been endgame but it would see as a bigger asspull than Korrasami. Makorra romantic relationship finished back at book 2, now they are past that and really close friends.


Honestly a clean slate with everyone as friends ending would made more sense but I can understand what was the foundation for this Korra ending we got and it didn't destroy the main characters feelings, used retcons, destroyed and regressed other characters like kishimoto despicable ending.

Edited by Nar123, 23 December 2014 - 06:44 PM.

                                  tumblr_obno1yoNj11suy1fso1_540.gif

 

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#236 Nar123

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:51 PM


Development isn't the sole drive for an good romance. You can't just have development on it's own, it needs to be GOOD development. I found this post on tumblr that really resonates with me as of why this ending irks me so much:
 
"There is no change in my thoughts. Bryke barely develops their so-called Korrasami romance. (But then again they are on a track record for that). They made it CLEAR from the get go they wanted their shallow problematic Makorra. Always making excuses for it and Mako and Korra and their soap opera triangle drama. 
They did not do this to be progressive. They didnt care about it, they wanted their drama infested triangles and Makorra.
Book 1 was originally all that was going to be it, never forget that.
Mako and Korra are supposedly realistic and soulmates. Never forget that. They tried defending their love triangles and Mako and Korras selfish actions in the name of their TRUE OTP, Makorra, never forget that.
Korrasami has jumped in popularity to the most popular pairing now, and Korras ratings had dropped so Nick pulled it off air. Keep that in mind.
Bryke, the guys who claimed back in ATLA would never sacrifice what they wanted for the sake of pandering to the fansdid exactly that.
They want you guys to stop criticizing. They want you to forget all that crap they put you through. They are waving korrasami in your face like its a shiny new toy in hopes youll forget that they kept breaking all your toys.
And whats sad is its actually working. People are forgetting why they were mad at Bryke and Korra and all they put us through and all the disappointments all because that shiny new toy. People are praising them and they are lapping it up and spewing crap because they managed to get away with bsing us and are back to people kissing their butts. They used to be on top of the world, but then were knocked down when we realized what poor writers they are. So instead of trying they kept throwing new shiny toys at us and hope it would distract us from that. One of those being forcing korrasami."
 
Long story short, the only reason Korrasami happened was because Bryke was aware of how popular it became. They can say they shipped it from day one, but I don't believe them, just like you guys don't believe when Kishimoto makes his excuses. I still think Korrasami is an poorly developed romance, were Asami sole existance is to atend to all of Korra needs, because Korra herself could never be bothered to ask Asami how she feels or what she wants. Never mind Korra totally justified cheating that she never apologized for. 


I don't agree with the post you quoted because well, romance wasn't the main aspect of the avatar series.
In korra it made more evil than good with that kitten triangle romance.
Korrasami development was subtle and didn't bog the story so much like the the romance did in the first two seasons.

We had a amazing third season and the good fourth season so i don't know what this guy was talking about when he said "everyone was disappointed in bryke" lol

                                  tumblr_obno1yoNj11suy1fso1_540.gif

 

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#237 trang95

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:59 PM

I'm in love with this beautiful KorrAsami picture:

http://medertaab.tum...am-avatar-image

tumblr_ngy9k4uoUZ1qjcqgvo2_r1_1280.png

You should check out this artist's tumblr- he has some wonder Korra artworks!:

http://medertaab.tumblr.com/


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#238 Khaleesi

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:34 PM

http://www.vanityfai...=social_twitter

 

Korrasami canon.

 

Sighs. I can't believe people don't understand that Korrasami had the development they COULD being an homosexual couple. You can't expect to be equally "good" or by the matter "explicit" when we are talking about these kind of couples. Subtle hints were everywhere. The problem is that "words" when it comes to heterosexual couples are taken as proof very fast. They say "I'm watching after you" in that heterosexual ship and everyone goes nuts. H.o.m.osexual ship says "You are so sweet" and it has to be friendship. Both cases could be friendship, but in their minds only the second one is.

You can't compare this with the kitten NH is.

You can't take as one of your arguments to be "This was going to be the end at the beggining", because it doesn't matter and it's irrelevant. "Yesterday I was sitting here!! Why did you take my place!!!" Kids.

If it were an heterosexual couple as well, I would agree that even if it has platonic development...it needed to have explicit romantic development. But it's not the same situation with h o m o couples.


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#239 Nami

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:42 PM

And some people think these guys are better than Kishimoto?  :twitch:

 

 

Their comments(Bryan and Michael) just confirmed to me that they basically just came up with stuff as they went along with the show. That is why we now have two girls who never showed signs of being bisexual end up in a romantic relationship that was apparently "hinted in two seasons" lol.

 

The proof is even when one of them talked about Asami's character on how she was supposed to be part of the Equalist back in season one.

 

 

Even though I don't like Asami, I feel really bad for her. And Bryke are the reason I don't like her. As you mentioned, they progressively ruined her character. People keep breaking her heart, but she just jumps right back into relationships without a second thought. The ending did no favors to Korra's character and development, granted, but it was certainly even worse for Asami. I would rather she stayed an Equalist in all honesty. It's sad, but she would be way more sympathetic that way. 

 

Nar123, I don't quite agree Makorra would have been a bigger asspull. It could have been clumsily written, unsatisfying and annoyed some fans, but never an asspull. Even up to the last scene I had a feeling Mako had feelings for Korra and that she still reciprocated in a way. Honesty, without the Korrasami added scenes, I would have been convinced that the ending, while ambiguous, was leaning more towards Makorra.

 

As I said, Korrasami was way too subtle for my taste. I know you can't get crazy with kitten couples on TV, but at least give me something! If they could only make it so bland because they were afraid, what was the point of making it happen at all? If i really looked into some scenes, maybe I would be able to interpret them as Asami showing attraction to Korra, even though it would have been wrong because she was in a really really bad place at that time. And as for Korra? Even though I liked to imagine her as bi (maybe I was projecting some of me into her), there was no canon evidence to support my theory. She was exclusively heterosexual, or better said, exclusively Makosexual because she never showed attraction to anyone else, let alone Asami. One of the most famous and favorite headcanons for Avatar was the fact that the Avatar only falls in love once and that's the only true love in their life. I wasn't a fan of the idea, but who could blame the other fans? We had Roku, Aang and then Korra.



#240 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:44 PM

Well, I have to see it to believe but going through places, it does have backup. And remember, MaKorra was real. Unlike NS, it never existed which is beyond insulting. But again, I shall see it myself.




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