700 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

So.... Sasuke wants to be Danzo?

[Otaru]

No, she actually doesn't, sorry to say it James... I am not a Sasuke fan myself either, but what she said it's true and this is basically the whole point of Kishi's "Uchiha strong love". That's not SS thinking there. What SS miss is that sadly, Sakura isn't on that scale for Sasuke... But basically that's the thing.. if Uchihas allow themselves to love, if they lose someone close they get crazy... Because that's the intriguing and morally questioning idea and why some agreed with Danzo's view... sadly, they're a danger to not only themselves but population. Ok, you extinct them, but where's the humanity in that?
That is the whole conflict with the whole Uchiha massacre and clan all around, so I'm sorry to say it but she's not quite that wrong...

 

Ah thank you chatte I thought for one moment I was the only one to feel that way.

Thought I didn't think about that "Uchiha strong love" curse LOL. Hope this will not be brought back by Kishi this was so weird... LOL

[BlackBird19]

Yeah it seems that some people can't understand that Sasuke doesn't carry a romantic bone in his body. Because Sakura had always come at him romantically is the reason why she was always easily rejected and dismissed. Naruto however comes at him more like family. That's why that bond has such an affect on him and I think has always scared him.

[Otaru]

If you're going to apply this to Sakura, then you have to apply this to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER SASUKE HAS INTERACTED WITH OR KNOWN. How many could he have loved, but not let in his life? And what does that make Team Taka who he did let in? So this whole backwards logic is "If Sasuke says he loves you, he actually hates you, but if he says he hates you, then he actually loves you."

You might as well say Ino has a strong place in his heart then by that logic or even Hinata and it would make just about as much sense as everything else. Sorry, I am not buying it. So basically, to you guys, it is impossible for Sasuke to be indifferent to people. It is impossible for Sasuke to not care even to the people he has never met. Maybe all babies that haven't been born yet. Why not? We are going radical with this anyway, so why not? Sasuke loves everyone because he wants to kill them all.



 

 

No it's just that he had a bond with Sakura. She was a team7 member. Sasuke never talked to Ino. Sakura, he defended her, he cheered her up one time, he wanted to save her when Gaara captured her.

Sasuke cared about her, she was once important to him.

That's why I'm assuming she's still important right now but IMO he's rejecting those feelings.

 

Do you understand better why I think like that ?

 

Well I understand why you don't want to buy this, and I respect this. But right now, I feel like that about Sasuke.

[TouKen4Life3g]

http://sparda3g.tumb...1/if-you-ask-me

[Otaru]

 

Well, I, myself wasn't referring only to Sakura but generally speaking. He may have loved many, who knows? The point here is that each of us make decisions and Sasuke made his. I am not excusing him or anything, don't get me wrong, but here like in real life it's all about the decisions you made. What does that make Taka? Well, I know what it does, do you? Does anyone else who is able to detach from their preference or indifference or hate towards the character to detach themselves and look at the story overall? Sasuke's main problem is that, like I always said, he considers that bonds make him weak that's why he wants to severe them, that's why he wants to kill Naruto. To do it now, with his own hands, than later see him killed in a new war. Because we like it or not, he was Sasuke's best friend. 
The fact that he went crazy when killed Karin should have told people something, but people refused to see it and just leave it at crazy Sasuke. Yes, he was crazy, but he had a reason to be. In his own mind. The thing is don't see this through our moral world, try to see it from his POV. If people want to understand Sasuke they need to look at him from his pov, not theirs. That's where some kick it in.

As for your logic, Sasuke never said he loves someone, don't try to put a simple logic where there lie more complications.
If we observe correctly his character throughout the story, we can tell who is important enough or who isn't. For example now, is Naruto while Sakura to him is trash, not even worth killing. Why? Because Sakura's death wouldn't affect him in any way (while with Karin it did, by the author's own words) thus having to suffer but if it were to happen something to Naruto, he would suffer in his own twisted ways. That's why he wants to cut all the ties because he wants no distractions to his plans. This paired up with what he thinks about bonds, you have figured Sasuke's character.

Just think about how much it hurts when someone precious to you dies. Basically what Sasuke wants is to not go through that because it will affect his judgement in his plans. So then, he better does it now, before actually starting with the plan so that afterwards, there will be nothing in his way and he can be that darkness. 
He's actually very predictable, just harder to read.

I agree though that his decisions based on our moral compass are skewed and not so humane as he might think they are under his impression, but in order to understand Sasuke and to see the way out of this, you have to think and see like him. Put yourself in his shoes. 

I agree with you as well, don't get me wrong, but that's where the point is. Basically, Sasuke is pure, but he goes all the wrong ways and that's where Naruto has to show him, what it is supposed to be the right way...
 

 

I agree. And I think Kishimoto wants the readers to understand that to bring peace in the world, we need to understand why bad people became bad.
IMO, it's often suffering people in the beginning.

Edited by Otaru, 02 October 2014 - 02:43 PM.

[Princess Iris]

 
I do agree a lot with this part
 

first part

The latest chapter basically proves what I have been saying or thinking always
Sakura is NOT so important to Sasuke, the only one important enough is Naruto. He has been the one who has been influencing him and in his mind, probably, keeping him from finding his peace is Naruto, thus hes the one who Sasuke wants to kill. Sakura is so petty and not important to him that its like sorry to say it but he trashed her to the bin by putting her into a genjutsu.
Of course, Sasuke will come to senses and eventually will acknowledge them all, Sakura included, because while Sakura might be crazy to some, she does have a point: what Sasuke is missing is love. But not the love she thinks he needs and she thinks she has/can offer to him, as in, the romantic one, but the familial one. Thats the love Sasuke needs, as proven when he does thank Sakura for her love, back in Pt 1. Because the reason why Sasuke couldnt bear Sakuras love deep down inside him and besides the real fact that he really didnt had any interest in her, at all, but she was a precious comrade at some point-, is because Sakuras love reminded him of his mothers love. The care, the pampering and all. Remember how Sakura used to peel apples for him and everything. She really did act like a mother type of figure to him, although she also acted like a rabid fangirl at a point and only afterwards, she understood that its not what hed want, but she still remained with the wrong idea of what love Sasuke would need.
The problem with Sasuke is that while I am sure he did appreciate the care, love, etc thats the reason Kishi says in the databook that the one who filled his loneliness with the emotion called love is Sakura it wasnt the type of love he needed/wanted and but it was a type of love that reminded Sasuke of his own mother. Thats why he thanked Sakura and he did consider her precious at some point (remember his words to Naruto when about to sacrifice himself in the battle with Gaara), but thats why he was so harsh with her at the same time. While she was busy fangirling with him, Sakura did some good deeds from the bottom of her heart but what she didnt realize is that it also kind of hurt Sasuke. Of course, miss-communication in the middle but, for a self-aware person, Sakura was pretty self-absorbed in her love with Sasuke (another point Kishi is/was trying to convey) and forgot to think what about him?
The reason Sasuke was harsh is because this girl that he had no interest in, still remembered him of his mother through the care she showed for him. While he did appreciated it, it also stepped on his toes, in a way, because this girl was there giving the care or a substitute to that, of his mother while his mother was dead. And it was something he was trying to forget and only focus on his revenge but Sakura did take him out of his way few timesthrough that care and love. But that care and love hurt Sasuke and couldnt accept it because it reminded him of his family, especially his mother (thats why Sakura does have some similarities with Mikoto Uchiha in a way as well, just not in the way SS-ers think). Its funny because the excuse that what Sakura feels is motherly love for Naruto is actually viceversa she feels it for Sasuke but she didnt or doesnt realized it yet (this is a tricky one here, expecting for further developments to be able to tell), and the gigglish love with butterflies in the stomach she feels it for Naruto and in this aspect, shes similar to Kushina, besides the others.
So yeah, the reason Sasuke made sure to cut his ties with Sakura first is because Sakura was the one that reminded him of his family, especially his mother and her love and care, and thus, in order to be able to better focus on his revenge, knowing that Sakura is weak against him, at that time both physically but especially emotionally (like she still is in a way, today), he cut the ties with her and that was it.

 
But I don't agree completely with this part, even if I agree for the most :
 

second part

From then on, Sakura dropped on the scale of important people or taking into consideration people, she basically just exited the whole list.
The only one who affects him is Naruto because Naruto keeps reminding him of Itachi and Itachi was, is and will always be, as we can see, so important to Sasuke. Basically his whole live revolves around Itachi, Itachi is the no. 1 winner of Sasukes list.
But the intriguing part is that Naruto is similar in a way and reminds him of his brother, and thus, Sasuke wants to cut that last tie. But Naruto confuses him because all that Sasuke did was to make his own decisions, on a extremely, severely, if you want to call it like that, reality scale in regards to the system based on Itachis experiences and the answers he provided Sasuke with but its only one more intriguing thing there If Itachi was a victim of this system, why is it that he has the same ideals and somewhat supports Naruto? So thus, his goal gets questioned/fuzzy by Narutos presence and idealism, way of being.
So whats the most simple way? Kill him! Naruto is so important on Sasukes list that after Itachi, he was the second he wanted to kill for a greater good sacrifice (in this mind, of course, that part is debatable).
However, Sakura isnt even that important. At all! Realistically speaking, while in a crazy-twisted way, yes, I give you that, Karin was/is so important to Sasuke that not only he decided she is important enough to kill for his greater good sacrifice, but when he realized that actually, Karin had no fault and he shouldnt have done so because she is just as a victim as he is, especially after he found out about her heritage, the only other clan that suffered the same (approximately) extinction fate as his clan, he apologized to her in a deep-sincere way.
Sakura is sadly, so unimportant to him at the moment that she doesnt even get that. I know its awful to say, I agree with you, but dont forget here that were talking from Sasukes morally point of view. Thats all I am saying.
Of course, there will be a time when all this will end, because like I said, Sasuke considers himself lonely because he has no family and he doesnt understand that bonds do not drag him down, no! Bonds with friends and comrades actually fill up that empty heart remember the Obito analogy. It wasnt just to parallel Naruto, keep that in mind. Kakashi and Obitos fates got mixed at some points that they interchanged parallels with Naruto and Sasuke. Their former selves remind us of Team 7 while the older selves, are supposed to give us an idea about what Team 7 is about to come, in the future. Dunno if late future or close one. That Sasuke should become like Kakashi and regret his stuff, that Naruto needs to remain true to itself or else he can suffer Obitos fate, only that with Obito getting back to his old, former self, kinda gives us an idea. The only mystery is Rin and Sakura But anyway, getting past that.
Like I said, there will be a time when all that will end and all will be pink and happy and giggly. But until then, they still gotta go through a lot.
But thats mainly about Sasuke and some of his bonds and the plot of this manga. This chapter, what can I say, only reinforces my beliefs in regards to how the manga will end.

 
Especially when you're saying he said "sorry" to Karin and not to Sakura.
IMO this is not proving he cares more about Karin.
 
IMO, Naruto and Sakura are more important to him than Taka. Because they were here for him first. IMO, those bonds are eternal to him. He will never get rid of it, even if he wants to. The first friends in someone's life are things impossible to forget. So IMO team7 will always be in his heart

i too, think so

[ButterBean]

Hagoromo: Why Naruto?

Sasuke: That Guy's the closest thing to a boyfriend I've ever had. 

Naruto: We're pretty good lovers.

 

Lovers Collide!

[Otaru]

Wow, so basically you don't take anything I say as serious or my opinion because of this? Well, screw you too then, why should I take yours serious? Why should I take any of your guys opinions serious with how much Sakura hate gets spread around this forum. With all the Obito hate that gets spread and how everyone hates how Naruto thinks he is a "coolest guy." Yeah, I guess every one hates something and everyone's views are skewed.

But I'll remember this logic from now on...if I ever reread this manga, I'll feel that Sasuke loves and cherishes the Team 7 bonds every time he just lets them die or tell them they are worthless or basically leaves them to fend for themselves.

By the way, since you are going to just say my viewpoints are based solely on the shallow view that because I hate Sasuke, I am always going to belittle him...then I am going to make the case that because you love Sasuke so much you are willing to excuse his entire actions based on that love for him. See? I can make stupid assumptions too.

 

 

Ah no, that wasn't what I wanted to say at all.
I was just trying to understand your position on Sasuke. It's true you hate him, you said it often. But I would never judge your opinion through that prism. I was just trying to understand why you disagree with me. I was empathising that's all.

 

If I didn't take seriously your posts, then I would have ignore them. I'm talking with you because I respect you.

 

But if you want to take it like that fine, I'll stop to talk about that with you right now, because it's only getting you upset and that's not what I wanted.

I only wanted to give my opinion about Sasuke's feelings, not getting people mad on the thread.

[tricksie]

I do love this logic though. Apparently, the less Sasuke says he cares, the more he actually does. 

 

But unfortunately that's the logic Kishimoto is falling back on. Sasuke says 'Naruto is my best friend, therefore I must kill him first." So if we are forced to accept that wacked-out statement, how hard is it to accept anything of driven by lesser emtions that falls underneath it? That helps me to understand how SS can look at it and still see a glimmer of hope. 

 

In Sasuke's language, if we're playing by Kishi's rules, than Sasuke telling her he hates her or that she's annoying (verbally acknowleding her) must mean he sees her as something important in her life. Because everyone else in the village he just ignores. Completely. And then going so far as to injure her so she can't stop them, conversely should mean that he actually does have some thought for her welfare, ie. concern. 

 

The logic is flawed. No doubt about it. But this is Kishimoto's world and his rules, and I think we all underestimate how much he loooooves Sasuke. And that he's writing all the characters to have that same unjustified love and sympathy. And for SS that's all the excuse they need to keep on shipping it.

 

edit: oh yeah, I forgot about the Uchiha Love Curse. That's another one that defies logic. Kishimoto's built himself lots of ways to excuse everything Sasuke's ever done.

[六道仙人]

i agree with you otaru but this chapter isn't centralized on sasuke's deeper feelings. I mean... sakura is important to him because he has a (platonic) bond with her but, once again, their bond isn't even the most importat bond of his live. Sakura is part of the team7, the family that he had after his lost.... What I mean (and you too, I hope) is that Sakura's feelings is part of Sasuke's characterization, like those Kakashi's and Naruto's especially.

 

You have a point but it has also a point that Sakura's bond isn't even the central point of his life, it has never been so. Sasuke himself told that he never though that he would have an important person after Itachi's death, and that person in naruto. I repeat, better don't put on pedestal only sakura's feelings. Because not only Sakura is part of his family, but also Kakashi and, above all, Naruto, the only one who can change his mind. Because he is the most important person of his life. And it's for this reason why I'm saying that Sakura is important to him but not so much important as Naruto.

[luffyq1]

 

But unfortunately that's the logic Kishimoto is falling back on. Sasuke says 'Naruto is my best friend, therefore I must kill him first." So if we are forced to accept that wacked-out statement, how hard is it to accept anything of driven by lesser emtions that falls underneath it? That helps me to understand how SS can look at it and still see a glimmer of hope. 

 

In Sasuke's language, if we're playing by Kishi's rules, than Sasuke telling her he hates her or that she's annoying (verbally acknowleding her) must mean he sees her as something important in her life. Because everyone else in the village he just ignores. Completely. And then going so far as to injure her so she can't stop them, conversely should mean that he actually does have some thought for her welfare, ie. concern. 

 

The logic is flawed. No doubt about it. But this is Kishimoto's world and his rules, and I think we all underestimate how much he loooooves Sasuke. And that he's writing all the characters to have that same unjustified love and sympathy. And for SS that's all the excuse they need to keep on shipping it.

 

edit: oh yeah, I forgot about the Uchiha Love Curse. That's another one that defies logic. Kishimoto's built himself lots of ways to excuse everything Sasuke's ever done.

very good point. the broken logic is what SS relies on because the story is filled with it. 

Edited by luffyq1, 02 October 2014 - 02:24 PM.

[Otaru]

 

HMMM. .what i understood from your posts .is that if sasuke stayed with team seven he might loved sakura back and  . and even now after all what happened from negative moments its still possible that if he is redeemed  and back at konoha  and spend time with sakura hi might fall in love with her.  . but because we have naruto  as the main character and he loves sakura .and she is feeling for him . its too late for ss to happen and it doesnt fit the story .. so ss fans have some right to ship  ss but they are shipping it  in the wrong story  did i get what u said right ?   if i did get it right . then i think u r right and i agree .

 

 

 

Well you're somewhat right about what I'm saying lol.

 

I just thought about it, and maybe it could have happened yes. What I was trying to say is that we don't know what could have happen because Sasuke always refused others feelings. Also he was obsessed by his goals, he never thought of love, girlfriend or things like that. He was a child forced to think about dark things because of his tragic past. How could he ever think about a girlfriend or love ?

 

I understand a little SasuSaku fans. They must have identified themselves to Sakura, I think most of SasuSaku fans are girls loving a dark and mysterious guy, and they want to be noticed. IMO, SasuSaku fans took things Kishimoto made subtle about Sasuke feelings and they used it to believe in SasuSaku. IMO, Sasuke never ever thought about love and girlfriends. Up until now, I think he has never been in love with anybody (not even Naruto LOL). Sasuke had deeper expectations of life. He wanted revenge. So, maybe if he had been all normal, with his family waiting at home, then maybe he could have loved her. We don't really know. That's why we don't really know what he will do when he will be redeemed. What will be his feelings ?

 

The fact that negative things happened don't make the fact that he could love her in the future impossible. It's still a possibility. But I think even if Sasuke would love her in the future, she would go back to Naruto. I think it's too late for her to love Sasuke. I think she cares more for Naruto.

Edited by Otaru, 02 October 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[tonga1]

she looks dead.

kitten....ok naruino have a chance now  

[ns.Believe.It]

kitten....ok naruino have a chance now

 As long as Sasuke is around, no girl has a chance with Naruto. As pepsi likes to put it, any girl would just be a

'silver-medal ' 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 02 October 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[manbeast101]

It was an ok chapter, I guess.

 

At least we got bit more info to help understand things, but I want to see some fighting, and Sasuke getting the beating that's long been coming to him, because it may knock some sense into him (though I doubt that).

Edited by manbeast101, 02 October 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[BlackBird19]

Kishimoto's built the perfect insanity defense for Sasuke. Lawyer wise it's brilliant.

[Otaru]

 

Ofcourse. He can sympathize with Sakura's plight only in the context of relating it back to his own family, ie non-romantic love. But he isn't the least "touched" by Sakura's feelings.

 

He's not rejecting her because he feels he's "unworthy". He's rejecting her because he finds her annoying.

 

IMO, Sasuke wants to be a martyr, but he happens to act like a future dictator at the same time.
When I said he felt unworthy of love, it wasn't only about Sakura. I think he feels he doesn't merit to be loved. Because he was the only one his brother spared. I think that's why he wants to take all the hatred on himself.

 

I think his feelings for Sakura are related to family, like Chatte said. But I still think he's kinda touched by her plea. He was touched back then enough to say "thank you" to her. I still think he's touched because to me his face was ambiguous, and kinda nostalgic or sad. I may be wrong, but I saw that. Also, to me, the fact that he thought about his family was a sign that she succeeded in touching him in some way. What she said softened him in some way IMO.

 

Well it will be clearer with the next chapters, when Naruto will dig into Sasuke.

Edited by Otaru, 02 October 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[六道仙人]

It is pretty clear that Sasuke wants to be the new danzo...it's funny though

Edited by 六道仙人, 02 October 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Hiyuusha]

So let me get this straight. Sasuke wants to pull a Lelouch/Jin by directing all the worlds hate to himself, and using that hate to unify the world against him?