407 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think what annoys me with Obito is that he is constantly dreaming for something he doesn't have. He's like a selfish kid with huge power.

 

First he is dreaming for a world where there is Rin, because that world is the only 'beautiful' and 'right' world for him. Not once does he realize that if he creates a world where Rin is smiling, it's a contradiction to what Rin really is. Because, there is no way the 'real' Rin, who sacrificed her life in the village, will be smiling in a Tsukuyomi World created on the sacrifice of the people she swore to protect. He's selfish and he forces his own ideal Rin into his own ideal world. But that's not really caring about Rin. That's only Obito trying to satisfy his hunger for what he doesn't have. 

 

Now, that the idea of Tsukuyomi is getting less and less likely, he is starting to dream of the 'what if' scenario. He's starting to think that maybe he could be happy in the 'what if' scenario.  But the 'what if' scenario only looks bright because he never had it, and he's the guy who keeps chasing for something he doesn't have. If he actually was in that situation, he would never feel content, and he wouldn't appreciate his friends like in his imagination. 

 

His childish fantasies are downright disastrous.

 

Obito and Naruto is so similar, yet so much different in a way that Naruto actually appreciates what is given to him, and doesn't force his ideals (for example: Sakura).

Same problem that Sasuke has, also Nagato had(My pain is greater than yours, famous line), Madara also has this too, Orochimaru another one.

In fact all the villains are selfish.

Sasuke is like this because he thinks he's special and a victim and that no one even Naruto knows what he went though and he uses the excuse "his clan disaster" to justify what he's doing so far, much like Obito using "rin" as an excuse, and Madara ("his brother death"), and pain ("Yahiko"), Orochimaru ("Wasnt chosen as a hokage").

 

Excluding Orochimaru, the rest wants to bring peace obviously on the wrong manner but uses their own disasters to justify their evil actions.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 24 October 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Same problem that Sasuke has, also Nagato had(My pain is greater than yours, famous line), Madara also has this too, Orochimaru another one.

In fact all the villains are selfish.

Sasuke is like this because he thinks he's special and a victim and that no one even Naruto knows what he went though and he uses the excuse "his clan disaster" to justify what he's doing so far, much like Obito using "rin" as an excuse, and Madara ("his brother death"), and pain ("Yahiko"), Orochimaru ("Wasnt chosen as a hokage").

 

Excluding Orochimaru, the rest wants to bring peace obviously on the wrong manner but uses their own disasters to justify their evil actions.

While I was writing about Obito I got confused thinking that I was writing about Sasuke   The Uchihas are so alike. 

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Same problem that Sasuke has, also Nagato had(My pain is greater than yours, famous line), Madara also has this too, Orochimaru another one.

In fact all the villains are selfish.

Sasuke is like this because he thinks he's special and a victim and that no one even Naruto knows what he went though and he uses the excuse "his clan disaster" to justify what he's doing so far, much like Obito using "rin" as an excuse, and Madara ("his brother death"), and pain ("Yahiko"), Orochimaru ("Wasnt chosen as a hokage").

 

Excluding Orochimaru, the rest wants to bring peace obviously on the wrong manner but uses their own disasters to justify their evil actions.

 

Of course the villains are selfish, that is part of what makes them villains. People who do bad things in real life use the abuse or wrongdoing they suffered to justify the way they act, shifting the blame onto another party to say "It's not my fault,". Many real life 'villains' like to paint themselves as the victim, and often it is true that they have been victimized too, but it doesn't, and shouldn't, absolve them of guilt or accountability.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

Of course the villains are selfish, that is part of what makes them villains. People who do bad things in real life use the abuse or wrongdoing they suffered to justify the way they act, shifting the blame onto another party to say "It's not my fault,". Many real life 'villains' like to paint themselves as the victim, and often it is true that they have been victimized too, but it doesn't, and shouldn't, absolve them of guilt or accountability.

Not badly written as they are in Naruto.

They all have the same objective and similar tragedies which ends up abusing of fallacy.

 

"My pain is greater than yours".

"You never had parents, then shut up you intruder".

"My brother is dead, and yours is still alive".

"You let Rin die".

 

It makes you hate the villains, and obviously villain are meant to be hated, but on Naruto not because they are m%##%#% like joffrey on GoT, but because they are bad written.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 24 October 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Not badly written as they are in Naruto.

They all have the same objective and similar tragedies which ends up abusing of fallacy.

 

"My pain is greater than your's".

"You never had parents, then shut up you intruder".

"My brother is dead, and your's is still alive".

"You let Rin die".

 

It makes you hate the villains, and obviously villain are meant to be hated, but on Naruto not because they are $%##%#% like joffrey on GoT, but because they are bad written.

 

Whether they are badly written or not is an entirely subjective opinion. I'm disappointed in Obito as a villain, but I loved Nagato.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

He did that because Yahiko died and let himself be manipulated by Obito forgetting even what he said when he was kid, Naruto just needed to pull off that book and say that magical quote.

In fact Naruto didnt even forgive Nagato and hated him.

 

Your point? I never said I liked Nagato's redemption, that and the mass revival were the only things I didn't like in the Pein arc, I said I liked him as a villain.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

Your point? I never said I liked Nagato's redemption, that and the mass revival were the only things I didn't like in the Pein arc, I said I liked him as a villain.

Sorry but i'm not getting it, you said that you liked him as a villain but you disliked his redemption and the mass revival which is the whole point of his motives and showed how bland is his will to be a villain...

You may like him as a villain but he's definitively bad written.

 

I like Naruto as a hero but he's has bad writing a lot of moments( he was about to give up because Neji died srsly wtf), I like Sakura as heroine but i cant point out that she has lots of bad writing just when Kishi does his adventures to make her realistic and ends up failling hard to a point that even VA's think the completely the opposite of what he intended with her.

 

The fact the villains has a very weak will to be villains and do evil actions is what makes their redeemption easier so in fact to make them redeemption likeable is to look at their motives.

Kisame is an example, he was a villain and because of his motives (a better world) he give up his life for the akatsuki, he didnt wished for a redeemption, Kabuto only wanted the world to burn and didnt cared about the others but still his motives were stronger than Orochimaru who only wanted to be kage and since he could not started hating the village and his desire to be "GOD".

 

Orochimaru is likeable because of the theme of his character, snakes and his fearsome appearance but he's bad written because of his motives which became clear on the kage's meeting.

Sasuke is likeable as a villain because of what he represents but he's bad written because his motives are bland, he doesnt have nothing to justify his actions and the reason why his redeemption is inevitable.

 

In fact bad writing or good writting has nothing to do with loving a character as a villain or whatever because that's subjective obviously, otherwise characters like Hinata would not have the large fanbase she has.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 24 October 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Sorry but i'm not getting it, you said that you liked him as a villain but you disliked his redemption and the mass revival which is the whole point of his motives and showed how bland is his will to be a villain...

You may like him as a villain but he's definitively bad written.

 

Huh? What is it with you and twisting people's words around? That is not at all what I said, but I can see there is absolutely no point in trying to explain.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 24 October 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[Dragunov]

this chapter waz gud

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

this chapter waz gud

Me too finally i got excited to see what will happen next chapter.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 24 October 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[Toasty Warrior]

I got a different translation of sorts from the front cover: "The path of war that has been marched upon"!

[六道仙人]

I got a different translation of sorts from the front cover: "The path of war that has been marched upon"!

 

marched? Are they militars or what? xD

Apart that, that sounds better.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Damn, YouTube. Well, better late than never.

 

Review

[BakeNeko-Chan]

Sorry but i'm not getting it, you said that you liked him as a villain but you disliked his redemption and the mass revival which is the whole point of his motives and showed how bland is his will to be a villain...

You may like him as a villain but he's definitively bad written.

 

I like Naruto as a hero but he's has bad writing a lot of moments( he was about to give up because Neji died srsly wtf), I like Sakura as heroine but i cant point out that she has lots of bad writing just when Kishi does his adventures to make her realistic and ends up failling hard to a point that even VA's think the completely the opposite of what he intended with her.

 

The fact the villains has a very weak will to be villains and do evil actions is what makes their redeemption easier so in fact to make them redeemption likeable is to look at their motives.

Kisame is an example, he was a villain and because of his motives (a better world) he give up his life for the akatsuki, he didnt wished for a redeemption, Kabuto only wanted the world to burn and didnt cared about the others but still his motives were stronger than Orochimaru who only wanted to be kage and since he could not started hating the village and his desire to be "GOD".

 

Orochimaru is likeable because of the theme of his character, snakes and his fearsome appearance but he's bad written because of his motives which became clear on the kage's meeting.

Sasuke is likeable as a villain because of what he represents but he's bad written because his motives are bland, he doesnt have nothing to justify his actions and the reason why his redeemption is inevitable.

 

In fact bad writing or good writting has nothing to do with loving a character as a villain or whatever because that's subjective obviously, otherwise characters like Hinata would not have the large fanbase she has.

 

Okay, let me try to explain. I like Nagato as a character, because I  found him likable, even though he was a bad person, I found him interesting and ultimately sympathetic. His redemption was rushed, just a few inspiring words and he's changed, that I didn't like and the mass revival was just a big undo switch, but those complaints do not take away from the fact that I think he is overall a good character.

 

As a comparison, I like Obito's back story, but on the whole as a villain, I don't care for him. I also like Kabuto as a villain, and his back story, while didn't lead me to feeling sympathy, made me feel like I understood him as a character better.

 

To the bolded about Orochimaru: I disagree. I don't find him the least bit likable, he's far too generically 'evil' and stereotypical.

 

And the final bolded paragraph: Your examples of supposed "bad writing" is also greatly subjective. What you find to be bad writing, others may not, it doesn't make you wrong or them wrong, because it is opinion and one's opinion is dependent on perspective and preference. Opinion does not equal fact.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 25 October 2013 - 12:57 AM.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

Whew, I'm quite late.

 

Looks like Naruto and Obito will have that one-on-one, only in this blank space.  I figure they won't talk the whole time, and Obito will most likely resist by force.  Also, Naruto's words of "I'll tear of that mask" hints of a struggle.  If there is a struggle how long will it take?  It could take one chapter like that one-on-one between Kakashi and Obito with it matching their previous bout in the past or it could go longer.  One thing I've noticed is Kishimoto is taking his time with this.  I really appreciate that sort of thing.  Though we know the manga is nearing a climax, (though with manga that can still mean a couple of years) Kishimoto isn't rushing it.  I'm no longer sure if this war arc will end this volume.  Depends on when Madara decides to act, and the implications, and gravity of the situation after he does.

 

I quite enjoyed the tug of war part.  It really goes with the theme of cooperation and teamwork.  Naruto has said everyone is his comrade, and that the "Shinobi Alliance jutsu is strong enough to stop the Infinite Tsukiyomi", so the Alliance has to be apart of the solution, or the words hold no meaning in the end.  I'm glad once again Kishimoto shows and keeps his consistency with the tailed beasts' tug of war.  Naruto could only pull out seven of the chakras, but not Shukaku's, or Giyuki's because he was never given any of their chakra.  Gaara had to pull out Shukaku's, and Killer Bee pulls out Giyuki's. Any chance for that sealing jar make it's way out as well? 

 

All in all, I really enjoyed the chapter, and looking forward to the resolution with Obito next week.

[rikakim94]

About yamato..... 

 

http://arianrad.tumb...zod-ahaha#notes

 

poor guy.

[Atheck]

If the extraction of the Jubi is similar to how it was regularly performed with its fragmented spawns, won't Tobi die once all of the bijuu are removed? He doesn't have the powerful life force and vitality of the Uzumaki to preserve himself after it's done, although half of his body is composed of Hashirama's DNA. That could potentially keep him alive for some time, at least. 

[DattebayoXShannaro]

^ I considered it more along the lines of the Naruto vs. Kurama battle, when Naruto was tugging out the Kyuubi chakra. He didn't absorb Kurama himself, but his chakra, and once drained left him quite skinnier.  The same principle applies here.  Naruto and everyone are pulling out the chakra of each tailed beasts respectively.  If it succeeds the Juubi shifts back as the Gedo Mazo, which will still remain inside Obito, so it's not necessarily extracting the beast, rather taking its chakra.

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 25 October 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[arian_rad]

If the extraction of the Jubi is similar to how it was regularly performed with its fragmented spawns, won't Tobi die once all of the bijuu are removed? He doesn't have the powerful life force and vitality of the Uzumaki to preserve himself after it's done, although half of his body is composed of Hashirama's DNA. That could potentially keep him alive for some time, at least. 

It seems as Kurama said that he will only be left with the shell of the juubi. So I'm assuming he will definitely be alive but not in the state he was once in. He could just possibly be overall a lot weaker or just lose the powers he attained.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Pretty much the Tree would be there just there or it will just die since it is Juubi itself.