381 replies to this topic

[Canadian_DJ]

@mydearbeloved

why is it so far fetched now if sakura has surpassed tsunade? I might agree with you guys that she hasnt surpassed her YET but its harsh to say shes not even close to surpassing her, why? its been foreshadowed many times in the manga and all the points i put into my other post is all true-I made a mistake about tsunade saying that the 13 year old sakura was better than tsunade, tsunade hasnt seen talent like sakura since shizuneh. And really? you think she just barely surpassed shizuneh?ofcoarse she did! shizuneh doesnt have the brute strength as sakura and tsunade. I MIGHT agree that sakura hasnt surpassed her master yet. You guys might think she still hasnt surpassed her, but a time will come where she will. Thats a promise.

And i didnt say that sakura used it on herself, i said she used the sozo sazai on the alliance through the slugs, plus tsunade had help from the anbus in the pein arc, and sakura did it all by her self, and her seal is stronger than tsunades, because its just as strong as tsunades yin seal released. And i pointed out why sakura surpassed tsuna in my previous post, and if i made a mistake, feel free to point it out, because everything i pointed out is true.

I also love sakura, but since i love her im gonna say logical stuff about her. I wont fool myself.

[Canadian_DJ]

Oh and about sakuras chakra storing, well even if it wasnt half its still impressive that she went all out and focusing her chakra and releasing it and at the same time storing it in her forehead and not to mention healing herself without seals, something that hashirama and tsunade with her released yin seal were able to do.

[Tsubaki]

 

nope, if you read the credi page at the beginning you see "colored by THE COLORKAGES of redditetc...", it's just a fanart...the color pages is a bonus from Shounen alpha for their subscripters USA&Canada and will be out on Monday as usual.

 

Oh I see. Thanks!! 

[Canadian_DJ]

i also want to add something, just because tsunade is half senju half uzumaki and sakura isnt doeant mean sakura isnt capable of surpassung tsunade, which she has, sakura has perfectly mastered fuinjutsu, which is only for uzumaki's aka the Byakugo seal. Cant wait to see what'll happen when sakura releases the seal.

Cant wait for the next chp. Sakura, whats your next move.

[redragon88]

Some people here are having lengthy discussion about how strong has Sakura become in comparison to Tsunade. I think the most we can conclude is that for now it's unknown. At the very least it's clear that Sakura has reached Tsunade's league, even if it was a little lower. That's the point of all those characters commenting on how amazing she has been in the recent chapters. I think anyone thinking otherwise is completely missing the point of Kishi's intent.

 

I suppose Tsunade has experience of time to her advantage, but so did Jiraiya and yet Naruto was portrayed as surpassing him during the Pain arc.

 

Unless a character in the story makes a clear definition of how would Sakura compare to Tsunade it all ends in speculation. Also, remember that we have yet to see the functions of her seal, so we might be in for a surprise.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Some people here are having lengthy discussion about how strong has Sakura become in comparison to Tsunade. I think the most we can conclude is that for now it's unknown. At the very least it's clear that Sakura has reached Tsunade's league, even if it was a little lower. That's the point of all those characters commenting on how amazing she has been in the recent chapters. I think anyone thinking otherwise is completely missing the point of Kishi's intent.
 
I suppose Tsunade has experience of time to her advantage, but so did Jiraiya and yet Naruto was portrayed as surpassing him during the Pain arc.
 
Unless a character in the story makes a clear definition of how would Sakura compare to Tsunade it all ends in speculation. Also, remember that we have yet to see the functions of her seal, so we might be in for a surprise.

Agreed.

Plus, she may have to step for sure since Obito is being all god, so she have to step up to save everyone, including herself.

[Dkey]

Some people here are having lengthy discussion about how strong has Sakura become in comparison to Tsunade. I think the most we can conclude is that for now it's unknown. At the very least it's clear that Sakura has reached Tsunade's league, even if it was a little lower. That's the point of all those characters commenting on how amazing she has been in the recent chapters. I think anyone thinking otherwise is completely missing the point of Kishi's intent.

 

I suppose Tsunade has experience of time to her advantage, but so did Jiraiya and yet Naruto was portrayed as surpassing him during the Pain arc.

 

Unless a character in the story makes a clear definition of how would Sakura compare to Tsunade it all ends in speculation. Also, remember that we have yet to see the functions of her seal, so we might be in for a surprise.

I also agree about waiting to see what exactly surpassing will be.

 

Even the word is a bit misleading.

Naruto has surpassed both Kakashi and Jiraya yet he wasn't considered for Hokage. Mostly because Kakashi was more suitable to be one when the occasion was presented but that didn't mean Naruto couldn't defeat Kakashi.

 

Surpassing is used in the manga more on the concept of managing to accomplish your dreams. It's not all about power, also some life goals too.

For me at least when I consider Sakura surpassing Tsunade and Shizune it means she shares the same goals as both of them but where the last 2 failed she will succeed.

[T XD]

I don't think that Sakura is finished with her seal yet. The seal doesn't hold just upgrading her strength and one healing technique that we saw. This seal of hers is packed with other things.

 

I believe that when Sakura will make a move in this god battle that is going to be, she'll show us what her seal can more do. Plus, I think that once Tsunade is there, maybe her and Sakura will make a plan by both having something in common with their seal and make an attempt to attack Obito with it.

[Canadian_DJ]

Some people here are having lengthy discussion about how strong has Sakura become in comparison to Tsunade. I think the most we can conclude is that for now it's unknown. At the very least it's clear that Sakura has reached Tsunade's league, even if it was a little lower. That's the point of all those characters commenting on how amazing she has been in the recent chapters. I think anyone thinking otherwise is completely missing the point of Kishi's intent.

 

I suppose Tsunade has experience of time to her advantage, but so did Jiraiya and yet Naruto was portrayed as surpassing him during the Pain arc.

 

Unless a character in the story makes a clear definition of how would Sakura compare to Tsunade it all ends in speculation. Also, remember that we have yet to see the functions of her seal, so we might be in for a surprise.

 

I don't think that Sakura is finished with her seal yet. The seal doesn't hold just upgrading her strength and one healing technique that we saw. This seal of hers is packed with other things.

 

I believe that when Sakura will make a move in this god battle that is going to be, she'll show us what her seal can more do. Plus, I think that once Tsunade is there, maybe her and Sakura will make a plan by both having something in common with their seal and make an attempt to attack Obito with it.

 

I also agree about waiting to see what exactly surpassing will be.

 

Even the word is a bit misleading.

Naruto has surpassed both Kakashi and Jiraya yet he wasn't considered for Hokage. Mostly because Kakashi was more suitable to be one when the occasion was presented but that didn't mean Naruto couldn't defeat Kakashi.

 

Surpassing is used in the manga more on the concept of managing to accomplish your dreams. It's not all about power, also some life goals too.

For me at least when I consider Sakura surpassing Tsunade and Shizune it means she shares the same goals as both of them but where the last 2 failed she will succeed.

 

Agreed.

Plus, she may have to step for sure since Obito is being all god, so she have to step up to save everyone, including herself.

Bless these posts.

[Otaru]

I think Sakura will be forced to release the seal.

I just can't imagine Kishi would give her this seal without let her unleash it later.

So i'm totally sure it will happen, and I think it will happen during this war.

I hope she will make her next move in the next chapter.

I want to see Tsunade back and the two of them having interactions/talk.

[T XD]

Somehow, I can see Tsunade and Sakura later in this battle having a combo attack, or Tsunade telling Sakura a way for her to make an attack that will make Obito weaker.

 

Tsunade and Sakura in the same place with these seals can make a good attack to the enemy. Well, let's see if Kishi will choose this option for them.

[Canadian_DJ]

@T XD Yeah thats definitely possible! that or kishi has something better in store. Whatever it is i know its gonna be badass.

@Otaru

Most definitely.

[Kster95]

Somehow, I can see Tsunade and Sakura later in this battle having a combo attack, or Tsunade telling Sakura a way for her to make an attack that will make Obito weaker.

 

Tsunade and Sakura in the same place with these seals can make a good attack to the enemy. Well, let's see if Kishi will choose this option for them.

 

I see this too, maybe a double lariat konoha syle lol

[T XD]

 

I see this too, maybe a double lariat konoha syle lol

Lol. Tsunade and mini Tsunade having a moment where they're doing a combo or working together would be a nice storyline XD

 

Let's hope Kishi picks this option for this battle.

Edited by T XD, 11 July 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[六道仙人]

Translation 638

01
"What on earth happened...!?"
638: Obito, the Juubi's Jinchuuriki
Fodder: Has the Juubi... gone out?!
Fodder2: What's happening!?
Fodder2: Did they beat it!?
Hiashi: No...
Sakura: Hinata! Did you see it!?
Hinata: Y...Yes!
Sakura: Can you explain what happened!?

02
/

03
/

04
/

05
Hinata: ...The Juubi...is completely absorbed... by him...
Hinata: Also examining through the chakra...
Sakura: ...Then don't tell me...
Sasuke: You say that he's the Juubi's

06
Sasuke: Jinchuuriki?
Naruto: It's more and more bad.
Minato: Obito...
Sasuke: Naruto... How do you know it!?
Tobirama: [Wh... What's this?]
Hashirama: [kitten... That's no good... A jinchuuriki is...]

07
Naruto: I became friend with the bijuus!
Naruto: I've seen clearly it because I received the chakra from them at that time!
Naruto: I felt one after another the bijuus' chakra was entering Obito...
Naruto: Moreover, I've seen once the revival technique of Rikudou!
Naruto: In the first place, the technique's seals are different!!
Naruto: He performed the technique to become the Jinchuuriki from the beginning, regardless!
Sasuke: ...Is that so...?

08
Bee: Hatt-san! Is that its final form?!
Hachibi: Nay... I swear it...
Hachibi: It's complicated but that is not... / It seems like that is kittening used for the Jinchuuriki before its final form.
Hashirama: Mmmh!!

09
Hashirama: [No matter if you become a jinchuuriki...]
Hashirama: [The Myoujinmon is still ongoing!!]
Naruto: Ooooh! Incredible!!

10
Tobirama: [The hermit seal that was holding down the Juubi is...]
Hiruzen: [So far...]

11
/

12
/

13
Hashirama: Mmh!
Tobirama: Aargh!
Hiruzen: What!
Minato: Gulp!
Gai: This is ridiculous...!
Gai: That Shisekiyoujin has been...!!
Bee: Has he become stronger than when it was huge? Or it's just my imagination?
Hachibi: Simply it isn't what it used to be before when he was just throwing its power out...
Hachibi: Look like that it has turned into a being able to concentrate its power.

14
Hiashi: Everybody, don't lose focus!
Hiashi: We don't know what that fellow will do now that he has been able to take controll of the Juubi's power!! / He destroyed the barrier!!
Minato: Stop... Obito. / Stop now......

15
Obito: O...bi...to...?
Hashirama: Frankly speaking, this fellow is...

16
Hashirama: stronger... than me!!
Hiruzen: You'll excuse me but I must agree...
Tobirama: Even if we dissolve the clones, we cannot bear to take him on, brother!
Hashirama: I know it... but...
Madara: Seeing the hokages so reluctant might be fun but...
Madara: I cannot wait any longer...
Madara: [Obito has become identical to Rikudou Sennin...]
Madara: [I'll use the trump card before I can be scooped by him...]
Naruto: Eh?

17
[The worst and strongest...!]

 

My translation from the raw.

[LadyGT]

^^ Awesome thanks a lot!!!

[Atheck]

the reasons sakura surpassed tsunade:

If your arguments are the same rehashings of statements that this or that character suggested that she may one day surpass Tsunade, then please understand that most of us evaluate how powerful a character is based on their feats, not on the uninformed, indefinite comments from other characters that are shown every several hundred chapters. 
 

Keep in mind that sakura belongs to no clan with special powers or chakra,

 
That only serves as an impediment or disadvantage to herself when she's trying to compete with characters who are part of two of the most powerful clans in existence. As I have already stated, genetically, she will never overcome Tsunade; even if she were to take the artificial modifications route to offer herself a chance at paramountcy against Tsunade, it would never allow her to completely overcome her teacher who possesses these genetic traits naturally. 
 

she's been storing her chakra for three years and using only half her chakra the whole time,

 
What is your inference for making this claim that she was using only "half" of her chakra? No such statements were ever made in the manga that I am reading. Any exact estimates of how much chakra Sakura was allocating to the seal is pure fabrication until otherwise stated in the manga. 
 

 
The only reference to Sakura's chakra which she has been accumulating on her forehead for three years. I see no mention of "half" her available reserves being used in the seal. It wouldn't be prudent even if she were doing so because that would severely hinder how often she can perform her medical or combat duties.
 

but thats not why she surpassed tsunade.

 
Excluding the area of enhanced strength, something which Tsunade is encumbered when using due to her transformation jutsu, there have been feats to indicate supremacy. 
 

shizune, adult talented ninja, complimented sakura on the fact that sakura can use the jutsu when he cant,

 
That doesn't indicate to me that Sakura has surpassed Tsunade. Only that her first disciple was unable to endure the fundamentals of Tsunade's training and that Sakura could indeed handle it. Overcoming Shizune isn't too impressive of a feat though. It would be comparable to Sasuke defeating Anko's abilities who was also a disciple of a Sannin. She was a paltry Tokubetsu Jonin who revealed that she understood only the basics of Orochimaru's snake based ninjutsu. For what we were provided of Sasuke's improvements, he surpassed her at the beginning of P2. 
 
Overcoming the feats and abilities of the failed original disciples amounts to little. It's no indicator that you surpassed the teacher who is astronomically superior in comparison. 
 

and also complimented on her that she's a talented girl.

 
Irrelevant. Madara was offering compliments to the 5 Kages and Naruto when they proved that they could manage some sort of worthwhile defence against his attacks when he was trifling with them. Does that imply that they surpassed him? No, the moment he became serious, they were almost instantaneously defeated. The same applies to the notion that Shizune's compliment should somehow be used as an arguing point to substantiate that Sakura is the superior kunoichi when in comparison to Tsunade.  
 

Sakura mastered an uzumaki technique fuinjutsu,

 
The origins of Byakugou no In were never specified, but it is highly likely that it's derived from the Uzumaki, specifically Tsunade. However, the only problematical step when creating the seal that we are aware of is the need to precisely concentrate chakra on the forehead. No other phases when learning how to develop the seal were ever referenced. Minato was stated to have learned various Uzumaki fuinjutsu as well and whilst he is intelligent, I doubt he's on par with Tsunade or Sakura in academic knowledge. In other words, understanding how to perform these techniques shouldn't necessarily be used as an indicator of supremacy either. 
 

and remember, sakura has been praised for her amazing chakra control abilities,

 
Precise chakra control is a requisite before you can even attempt the training. If you lack this component, then you will end up failing like Shizune did. Still, even if the meticulousness of her chakra usage is highly impressive, there were never any feats or comments to imply that her chakra control is in any way superior to Tsunade's. On the contrary, the fact that Sakura thought it important to emphasize the age discrepancy between herself and her teacher to prove that her strength is greater suggests that her chakra manipulation was either below or the equivalent to Tsunade's.
 
Once again, this proves nothing about whether Sakura has surpassed Tsuande. 
 

which as kakashi said, is the base to all ninjutsu or any other source of jutsu.

 
How is this even relevant? I was under the presumption that you were trying to prove that Sakura had surpassed Tsunade by virtue of two mens' statements in completely different intervals of the manga, one being a neglectful commanding officer who had apparently not seen Sakura for two and a half years and the other being a reanimated corpse who had last seen Tsunade when she was a small child and would therefore have no knowledge of what she is currently able to do. 
 
It's impressive that Sakura is able to exploit her chakra in the most efficient and beneficial way possible, but that is no indication of having surpassed Tsunade. 
 

Sakura's byakugo seal, unlike tsunade's, doesnt need it to keep her young,

 
So this is finally brought forth, once again. The reliance on senility and vanity in order to somehow prove that she's better. Tell me, what you do believe would be the result if Tsunade chose not to use the seal's chakra for an ostentatious transformation jutsu? Could she perform a similar attack like the Sakura did in chapter #632? I see no reason to believe otherwise since no additional evidence was provided to distinguish her physical strength from Tsunade's. That would be like tying Usain Bolt's feet together with a rope, beating him at a footrace, and then claiming that you're faster than his full running speed just because you restricted his mobility. 
 

its all focused on her strength, speed, strength and healing abilities

 
There was never any verification as to whether the user's running momentum increased when using Byakugou no In. Healing is more easily accomplishable because of the much greater amounts of chakra that you have available with the seal, but auto-regeneration remains an exclusive of Byakugou jutsu until Sakura is mutilated and regenerates from it without needing to release her seal. Lastly, the cause for her strength having increased is her ability to focus all of her chakra into battle instead of allocating portions of it for the seal.  
 

and as we've seen, it has the same impact as tsunades released yin seal.

 
You do understand that Tsunade could also use Enkaku Chiyu as well without needing to release the seal, correct? When Tsunade released her seal, it generated noticeable markings across her body and allowed her body's cell division to become expedited, allowing for any injuries to be immediately healed, including injuries that would be fatal like having two enormous swords pierced completely through her midsection and her spinal cord being fragmented. When has Sakura ever displayed auto-regenerative feats? Never, and any allegation that she can auto-regenerate with just her seal is purely false until demonstrated in the manga.
 

Hashirama also commented on sakuras power and all saying, "wow! what a monster! she might even be better than Tsuna!" now, if your gonna say, oh he wa dead, he didnt see the current tsunade and her power, I beg to differ.

 
I also beg to differ, because there is no legitimate reason to believe that he has any sort of comprehension of Tsunade's abilities or strength. He wasn't even aware that she was the 5th Hokage and from his recollection of her it appears that he only saw her as a small child. It's only logical to assume that he also doesn't know of the Yin Seal, Sozo Saisei, Byakugou, and her refined strength. 
 

Kishimoto wouldnt make hashirama, especially since hes an important character, say something thats not relevant, he's a top class ninja, and he wouldnt say something as big as that unless he knew something we dont know about the whole seal thing,

 
Characters have had inaccurate preconceptions about the abilities of others in the past. Neji believed Naruto to be a pathetic, inefficient failure bound to this inevitability of mediocrity but that was soundly refuted when Naruto proved that he was naturally advantaged by having the  chakra of a bijuu at his disposal. In Tsunade's case, we have no inferable evidence to indicate that Hashirama is aware of what she is currently capable of.
 

so that argument is completely invalid, you cant go and downgrade something like that with nothing to back it up.

 
Excuse me, but I do have have something to reinforce my argument. The fact that Hashirama's last recollections of his granddaughter were when she was a gambling toddler is adequate enough to challenge the notion that he can compared Tsunade to Sakura with any sort of accuracy. Does Hashirama know of any of her techniques like Strength of a Hundred or how she has matured into a taijutsu oriented tank? No, he wasn't even aware of her Hokage status. Hashirama isn't exactly the most informed individual to be making these sorts of comparisons.
 
The burden of proof falls on your shoulders to illustrate that Hashirama is a reliable and accurate judge of ability between Tsunade and Sakura. But from what I have read so far the argument that Sakura has surpassed her teacher appears to be comprised of mostly rehashings of poorly supported and uninformed statements made by other characters.  Not that it would really matter even if Tsunade were to appear and proclaim to the heavens that Sakura has superior physical strength. In every other purview of the shinobi, stamina, ninjutsu, taijutsu, and even intelligence, Tsunade is statistically higher on the tier list, that included with the fact she is the more experienced and versatile of the two. Sakura lacks the feats to prove her worth outside of physical strength, and even then, the only confirmed reasoning for her superiority is the transformation jutsu which Tsunade insists on maintaining. 
 

Sakura's healing powers in her current form, the byakugo seal, has the same effect as tsunade's released yin seal, the sozo sazai (did i spell that right?) ]it heals open wounds instantly with the smoke being released just like tsunades sozo sazai.

 
Those sizzling fumes aren't exclusive to just one particular technique, similar attributes are visible with other restorative techinques. I believe Kabuto used a healing ability with similar features.
 

 
Does it look familiar? The hissing and gradual closing of the wound are characteristics that are visible in both of the above instances. Unless Kabuto is capable of using Sozo Saisei as well, without a Yin Seal or the Tiger handsign, then it was a different technique which Sakura was using. This is a detail which I think people tend to over overlook when theorising about Genesis Rebirth. 
 
Even if it was Sozo Saisei, it doesn't mean that she would be able able to regenerate a spinal cord or internal organs of other people. Regeneration requires large amounts of chakra, logically, how would that be possible if the chakra storage isn't exorbitantly larger than what Tsunade possesses? But that brings up yet another issue of how Sakura is able to supply even more chakra than a Senju/Uzumaki hybrid with an equal amount of time to her seal.
 
Sakura actiavted the remote healing jutsu which, ironically enough, Tsunade was shown to have been using to heal the Kages in the next chapter.
 
 I'll reiterate, until Sakura is depicted as regrowing her appendages then her jutsu remains her inferior to Tsunade's. Not that it would be adequately sensible if she could regenerate since it is the product of a jutsu and not a seal. A comparison would be if Sasuke or Juugo were to reap the benefits of the Curse Seal levels without first activating the seal. That doesn't even make sense. It's merely an accumulation of senjutsu chakra materialised into a visible seal, how does that automatically enable someone to exploit the benefits of its usage without first allowing it spread across their body? 
 

Now look back at the pain arc, tsunade needed the anbus help with the chakra when the sat in a circle,

 
The Anbu were there for protection. She didn't make any reference to their chakra or presence being necessary in order to perform the jutsu. I present chapter #635 where Tsunade, on the brink of death with the lower half of her body severed, was able to perform the exact same jutsu that Sakura used in #634, her own jutsu, without any of these so-called "chakra distributors" or the barrier-esque markings present. Both Sakura and Tsuande were drawing upon the chakra in their seals in order to use the same ability. 
 

which didnt have the same effect as sakuras,

 
There was a scarcity of panels depicting the slugs as they were healing the villagers. Most of the ones provided had Katsuyu envelop the individual so she could heal them inside of her body. But if even if you discard the ambiguity of Tsunade's jutsu, I already addressed the fact that there are jutsu who share similar characteristics to the healing used by Sakura several responces above. I'm not going to believe that her regular healing is on par with Tsunade's Sozo Saisei until it's shown regenerating limbs or internal organs. 
 
Take a close look at these panels, analyse them for a moment. 
 

 
Can you discern anything that's inconsistent? I can, it would be the handseals which they are formulating. The left panel depicts Sakura making the Ram Seal, whereas in the right panel Tsunade is performing the Tiger Seal. It's been said that Sozo Saisei is a jutsu. The marking on her forehead does not create the effects of the technique without the user first performing the necessary hand gestures. Tiger has been consistently depicted as the prerequirement for Creation Rebirth. Sakura was either using a combinational version of Mystical Palm or some other unnamed medical ninjutsu. Albeit the former is questionable since Tiger is the seal and not Ram. Kabuto didn't perform any handseals at all when he healed Sakura so perhaps they're both variations of the technique. Or they could be two entirely different jutsu. 
 

plus sakura was doing the chakra transfer to the slugs all by herself,

 
Tsunade never required any external assistance from others. Those Anbu were inside what appeared to be a detection barrier of sorts, it's obvious from their stances that they were intending to protect her. The markings on the ground were likely created by them as a safeguard against any possible intrusions. 
 
Here, let me provide the responce I made above that addressed this point already. 
 
I refer to chapter #635 where Tsunade, on the brink of death with the lower half of her body severed, was able to perform the exact same jutsu that Sakura used in #634, her own jutsu, without any of these so-called "chakra distributors" or the barrier-esque markings present. Both Sakura and Tsuande were drawing upon the chakra in their seals in order to use the same ability. 
 

to which shizune said shes such a talented girl,

 
She didn't make any assertions that Sakura had surpassed Tsunade in medical abilities or aptitude. Shizune was impressed by the progress that this 16 year old adolescent had made, but that was the extent of her comment. If Sozo Saisei was being implemented through remote healing, then why would Shizune not comment on it? An S-Rank medical ninjutsu being liberally distributed to everyone throughout the battlefield should be something that would catch the attention of a medical practitioner like Shizune, would it not?  Yet for some reason she didn't bat an eyelid towards it.

Edited by Atheck, 12 July 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Atheck]

the fact that her chakra control is better than tsunade maybe? time will tell.

 
The force behind chakra enhanced strength is reliant on the proficiency of the user's chakra control. If there are no confirmations that Sakura's control is better than Tsunade's, then there is no reason to believe that she is more powerful than her teacher, unhindered by other active jutsu, in the area of brute strength. 
 

Remember the time the kages were fighting madara and tsunade released her yin seal and it was the byakugo jutsu,

 
The difference between Sozo Saisei, the technique which you're attempting to validate that Sakura used in unison with Katsuyu, and Byakugou is that the latter doesn't require any handseals. Shizune implied that Sakura was using the chakra from her Byakugou seal, there wasn't any specific reference to a jutsu apart from remote healing. If it was Sozo Saisei, it would have been addressed.
 

now as we know from what sakura's capable of, her byakugo seal is just as strong, or maybe better,

 
I illustrated that the handseals were inconsistent and that the jutsu is starkly reminiscent of the jutsu that Kabuto used. No confirmation was made by Shizune or anyone with knowledge about medical ninjutsu that Sakura was transmitting Sozo Saisei to everyone.
 

(hashiramas comment) as tsunades released yin seal the name also suggests that its just as strong or even stronger,

 
No offence, but it seems like you're beginning to misquote the statements made by characters. Hashirama only reacted to Sakura's strength, he made no comment about the seal or that it was better than Tsunade's. Besides that, it was already detailed that the strength is independent of the seal. It only influences the amount of chakra that can be emitted behind attacks since the user no longer has to allocate. They can fight to their greatest ability. 
 

sakuras is the byakugo seal, and tsunas is the byakugo jutsu,

 
Have any discernible variations been noted by any of the characters? Does Sakura's seal endow her with any techniques or physical enhancements that were not already possible for Tsunade? There aren't any noticeable changes except that Sakura has yet to release her seal or use any auto-regenerative techniques. If anything, chapter #635 has confused people into believing that the two seals are the same. Truth be told, I don't begrudge them for believing that since Sakura has yet to unveil anything unique.
 

and the literal japanese meaning for tsunades is strength of a hundred, and sakuras is....uhh..what was it again..i think it was called white strength..

 
As I already discussed at length with one of the interpreters on this forum, the disparities between the two names is inconsequential if no variable changes are seen between the two seals and the jutsu. If Sakura releases her chakra and the same markings are created on her body, then it will have been confirmed that no differences exist between the seal and jutsu excluding the name.
 

I'd love to see, and im sure many japanese fans and you guys, sakuras released byaguko seal and what she'll be capable of.

 
I can foresee her using the allocated chakra provided to Katsuyu in order to protect everyone a la Tsunade during the Shinra Tensei incident in Konoha. With Tobi unpredictably assaulting anything and anyone whom he happens to come across, you can be certain that the Alliance forces are in more danger than ever before. It isn't exactly a source of comfort that the replicas are still lurking in the background either.
 

i also want to note something that madara said to tsunade when she released her seal since tsunade was able to heal herself without seals, something only hashirama was able to do,

 
The difference between Sozo Saisei, the technique which you are attempting to validate that Sakura performed in unison with Katsuyu, and Byakugou is that the latter doesn't require any handseals. 
 
It's the whole reason for Byakugou's creation except for offering (presumably) a boost to her strength.
 

now look back at the sasori fight, when sakura saved chiyo and got stabbed in her side, now sakura was holding on to the sword with her hands, and guess what she did? yeah, she healed that wound with the sword in her side WITHOUT hand seals

 
It's an impressive feat, but one which is not mutually exclusive to others using it or similar abilities. Kabuto self-restored his wound after Naruto directly landed a Rasengan in his abdomen. Here is a comparison of Sakura and Kabuto healing themselves without the usage of handseals. 
 

 
A man who is not even under the tutelage of Tsunade can use a self-restorative technique. Oh, but we mustn't forget that there are methods to self-heal. Remember the chakra shroud that Naruto and Killer Bee were imbued with if they were to allow their bijuu's influence to physically manifest itself? It caused the user to enter an unending state of self-degeneration and restoration that is confirmed to reduce their life expectancy. And we can't forget about Hashirama's Sage Mode healing his injuries without any handseals. So that's three different methods apart from the one instructed by Tsunade that are capable of closing physical wounds without any prior seals. 
 
IMO it lessens the uniqueness of the ability if eleven (twelve if you include Tobi) other people are demonstrably capable of performing the same thing.
 

with only HALF her chakra WITHOUT the byakugo jutsu like tsunade.

 
I'll ask this now, where exactly did you pull this contrived amount of chakra from? Offer a chapter and page number to prove it that's explaining that Sakura was using only 50% of her chakra is indeed from the manga and not some haphazard number that you read.
 

Now, Sakura is sannin level just like sasuke and naruto,

 
She isn't though. The healing that she used seems to be a basic restorative technique that anyone can use as I already demonstrated above with the comparison to Kabuto's technique. Her chakra control proficiency is incomparable to Tsunade's at the moment. The only reason that her strength is greater, as I have already reiterated quite a few times now to several people, is because Sakura doesn't have to sacrifice her chakra for a transformation technique.

The statistical discrepancies in versatility, stamina, taijutsu, and intelligence continue to sway in Tsunade's favour, and from the meagre exhibitions that Kishi has offered Sakura in chapters #632 and 634, she has not proven herself to be the equal of Tsunade in either medical knowledge or combat ability. The only thing she has going for herself at the moment is the handicap placed on Tsunade which prohibits her from increasing her strength any further. The fact that she allows herself to get distracted by gloating to others around her tells me that her naivety and combat inexperience are persistent flaws that continue to hold her back.
 

she's in their league,

 
The Sannin or Naruto and Sasuke? She's inferior to both of them regardless. She cannot to defeat Tsunade with that single display of strength in #631. Her teacher understands every possible maneuver or ability that she will use because those were originally her own. The lack of regenerative feats means that any severe injuries like dismemberment will render Sakura helpless. As for Naruto and Sasuke, do I really need to explain why she is still vastly inferior to them? Those two are being compared to gods, whilst Sakura continues to linger in the shadow of her Sannin predecessor.
 

when she said she finally caught up to them,

 
"Caught up to them" as in she rushed ahead by leaping into the air without their knowledge and then destroying the replicas in the distance with a single punch. I believe people are misinterpreting the context of Sakura's statement there. She meant fighting as a teammate of equal status, not that she was combatively on par with an EMS user or a jinchuuriki who can masterfully use the chakra of their bijuu.
 
I would genuinely believe that to be insane if someone assumed that Sakura could take on Naruto or Sasuke with any degree of effectiveness.
 

and if your gonna down grade that part, then thats just how you as a reader and how you interpert the manga in your own way.

 
Everything points to Sakura remaining Tsunade's inferior. She immediately required the assistance of her teammates after flaunting her new seal to Hashirama, reinforcing what I already explained about her inexperience in battle detrimentally impacting her. The technique used in conjunction with Katsuyu did not have the correlative seals of Sozo Saisei and twice it's already been proven that other techniques with similar characteristics to the ones shown with her remote healing jutsu exist.
 
Sakura has less experience in battle, a smaller repertoire of fighting abilities, no verifiable instances of regeneration, and her natural reserves of chakra are significantly smaller than Tsunade's. The only confirmed reason that she possesses better strength has to due with Tsunade's jutsu consuming a portion of the chakra that she uses for her strength.
 
I'm sorry if my opinion of Sakura remaining in the shadow of Tsunade offends you, but thus far I have no reason to believe that she could defeat her teacher in a battle with the meagre display of fighting ability that she showed in #632. Or that she has overtaken Tsuande in medical knowledge.
 

I think your underestimating the heroine of the story, and her amazing abilites.

 
And I believe that you're overestimating her status. Until #628 she was virutally non-existent since the Kage Summit arc and before that her role was pretty much that of a side-character's. Her last major contribution to the story before recent events was in the Sasuke and Sai arc, if you believe healing Naruto and assisting to reform Sai's outlook on life are monumental contributions that is. Kishimoto himself has admitted to having forgotten about Sakura. What does that indicate to us? That she is of little significance to the plot or that there other characters whom he wants to focus on at Sakura's expense? 
 
Her greatest achievement was defeating Sasori, but outside of that her status as heroine is questionable, I must admit. What sort of heroine is relegated to obscurity for multiple canonical arcs at a time without a single impactful contribution made? I go back to my statement in the #637 discussion about Sakura being intended to represent an "emotional hero" instead of fulfilling the same archetype that Naruto does. 
 
The "amazing abilities" that Kishi has done a poor performance at unveiling so we can receive confirmation that she isn't still being compared to the Chunin and Jonin level rookies? What feats Sakura does have are questionable because she has more often than not required outside assistance before or after showing that devalues its worth. 
 

Sakura has been foreshadowed in surpassing tsunade many times in the manga,

 
I'm well aware of this, but just like the name discrepancies with her seal and Tsunade's jutsu, they're pointless if she doesn't actually prove herself to be the greater kunoichi. I don't want it to just be suggested. Depict it, prove that she is indeed greater than Tsunade instead of expecting us to be satisfied with an ambiguous statement that she "might" be superior to her predecessor.
 

chiyo, kakashi and tsunade even said to sakura when she first met her, that sakura is better than shizune 
and she was only 13.

 
Chiyo had no understanding of who Shizune was. She only complimented Sakura by mentally referring to Tsunade that her pupil was very impressive. Kakashi's comment back during the first half of the manga has become arguable with Tsunade revealing more advanced abilities and Sakura continuing to remain stagnant in her progress. Standing about on top of a slug and staring blankly out at your teammates as they fight after making a single punch and using the same jutsu to heal fodder isn't an indication that you have surpassed your teacher.
 
And for the comment referring to Shizune from Tsunade, she didn't say that Sakura was "better". Only that Sakura's quick progress in using medical ninjutsu was similar to Shizune's progression rate when she was learning under Tsunade. 
 

 

So i dunno why your denying sakura has surpassed tsunade,

 
Because of everything alluding to the fact that she hasn't surpassed Tsunade, every single sentence in your post that I addressed above makes me believe that she still has some improvement to do before it can be definitively argued that she is greater than Tsuande.
 

or denying sakura's roles along side sasuke and naruto.

 
Again, this was already addressed numerous times in not just this conversation but previous ones in the #637 discussion. Her role is supplementary in nature and her status is inferior to theirs as protagonists. None of us have any reason to believe that she could fight alongside Naruto or Sasuke as an "equal" in ability like they are. The reason is that they both progressed under unique circumstances that put them above everyone except the historical legends of the Naruto universe. Sakura, with basic chakra levels, no KG, and imitative abilities of a Sannin, couldn't hope to possibly match their performances in the current state that they're in.
 
I'm shocked that people took Sakura's statement literally like you apparently are. 

oh and btw, just because tsunade is half uzumaki half senju and sakura isnt doesnt mean sakura cant surpass her,

 
Biologically it is something that Sakura cannot overcome without artificial modifications. The bodily vitality and chakra levels of the Sage's Younger Son do offer advantages which Sakura has to compensate for with additional time expended accumulating chakra

Edited by Atheck, 12 July 2013 - 06:10 AM.

[Atheck]

it makes sakura looks stronger in fact,

 
Just keep in mind that these techniques were originally Tsunade's. She was probably the one who created Byakugou jutsu and the other abilities that she knows if Mito didn't instruct her in their usage. As it was shown with Minato, creating an entirely new jutsu requires years to complete. Sakura has so far only been using preestablished techniques. Naturally, it should be easier for someone to learn an already existent skill rather than make an entirely different one and then attempt to refine it. 
 

because she's able to do what tsunades doing and even better,

 
"Better" is subjective in this particular situation. Her strength is only circumstantially superior and I've already argued against the idea that Sakura was using Sozo Saisei one too many times that could be considered healthy for a person's sanity.  
 

just because tsuade is half uzu half senju doesnt mean her chakra is better than sakura,

 
With the exclusion of senjutsu and the bijuu, there is no "superior" brand of chakra, but there are varying quantity levels which is what I am referring to. Tsunade's Senju/Uzumaki reserves should eclipse Sakura's average amounts easily. Quantity does provide several advantages that people would like to believe don't exist.
 

look at naruto, sakuras better than him and even better than sasuke as accordance to what kakashi said (and he knows his students well so dont down grade that as well)

 
Only in the specialty of chakra control and academic intelligence was that suggested, in every other respect she was and continues to remain their inferior. I'm beginning to think that you're purposely discarding or rearranging already established feats and comments by other characters to accommodate your argument.
 

so no, your argument saying that tsunade has the upper hand is invalid.

 
That's quite the bold proclamation to make. Well, by this time I have already addressed every utterance and concept that you brought up in your responce.
 

why is it so far fetched now if sakura has surpassed tsunade?

Because there is nothing to indicate that what Sakura has done cannot be matched by Tsunade if she wasn't hindered by her own jutsu.
 

I might agree with you guys that she hasnt surpassed her YET but its harsh to say shes not even close to surpassing her, why?

As the other user argued, she lacks many of the feats and abilities that distinguish Tsunade from Shizune, Chiyo, or the nameless medical personnel in the five villages.
 

its been foreshadowed many times in the manga and all the points i put into my other post is all true-

Your arguments consisted of numerous misquotes, the uninformed opinions of animate corpses, and disproved interpretations of specific jutsu. All of that is just the proverbial icing on the cake of Sakura lacking the substance to prove her superiority that we have been repeating so many times now.
 

I made a mistake about tsunade saying that the 13 year old sakura was better than tsunade, tsunade hasnt seen talent like sakura since shizuneh.

An admittance of error nullifies my responce concerning this misinterpretation. Thank you for correcting yourself on this issue.
 

And really? you think she just barely surpassed shizuneh?

To be fair, we don't even have an idea of how Tsunade's Byakugou would respond to a toxin. Degenerative agents that infect internal organs is a different affair than physical regeneration of limbs altogether. If Sakura lacks prior preparation, what defence would she have to Shizune's poison if her medical techniques have not been shown to be capable of neutralizing poisons? Not that Shizune would successfully poison Sakura as she would likely be crushed under the impact of Sakura's attack to the surrounding geography.
 

ofcoarse she did! shizuneh doesnt have the brute strength as sakura and tsunade.

I don't believe that there are very many people arguing that Sakura hasn't transcended the pitiful display that Shizune made against Kabuto in P1.
 

I MIGHT agree that sakura hasnt surpassed her master yet. You guys might think she still hasnt surpassed her, but a time will come where she will. Thats a promise.

When that time comes, we'll admit that it has indeed happened. But until then, she still has progress to make before anyone will consider her the better of Tsunade.
 

And i didnt say that sakura used it on herself, i said she used the sozo sazai on the alliance through the slugs,

I'm only going to direct you to the panels I provided of Kabuto's technique and leave it at that for this particular responce. It isn't necessary for me to repeat myself for like the tenth time.
 

plus tsunade had help from the anbus in the pein arc, and sakura did it all by her self,

Do you have anything to authenticate this theory of yours that they were surrounding Tsunade to supplement their chakra for her jutsu? Quotes? Panels? Databook entries stating that Tsunade's jutsu requires the assistance of others? I like to believe that I have already substantiated that Tsunade is capable of remote healing without the fearsome four or paint stains on the ground being required (intentional sarcasm here)to heal others from a distance with the referencing of events from chapter #635.
 

and her seal is stronger than tsunades, because its just as strong as tsunades yin seal released

Sakura's strength isn't dependent on the seal. Read the contents of my post above for an answer to the "remote Sozo Saisei" claim that you made.
 

And i pointed out why sakura surpassed tsuna in my previous post,

And I'm addressing why Sakura hasn't surpassed Tsunade in this post.
 

and if i made a mistake, feel free to point it out, because everything i pointed out is true.

I am already doing that with my retort here.

Your arguments consisted of numerous misquotes, the uninformed opinions of animate corpses, and disproved interpretations of specific jutsu. All of that is just the proverbial icing on the cake of Sakura lacking the substance to prove her superiority that we have been repeating so many times now.
 

I also love sakura, but since i love her im gonna say logical stuff about her. I wont fool myself.

That's wonderful, your sincerity here is respectable. I hope that you equally respect the contentious opinions of others who believe that she hasn't surpassed Tsunade.
 

i also want to add something, just because tsunade is half senju half uzumaki and sakura isnt doeant mean sakura isnt capable of surpassung tsunade,

Biologically it is something that Sakura cannot overcome without artificial modifications. The bodily vitality and chakra levels of the Sage's Younger Son do offer advantages which Sakura has to compensate for with additional time expended accumulating chakra
 
Tsunade's Senju/Uzumaki reserves should eclipse Sakura's average amounts easily. Quantity does provide several advantages that people would like to believe don't exist. 
 
With qualitative chakra control and jutsu mixed with some persistence and luck, she may be able to surpass Tsunade, but that will likely be the outermost limit of her progress.

against people like Sasuke, Naruto, Madara, or Hashirama, the pinnacle of the shinobi warrior from their respective clans, you have absolutely no feasible hope of ever matching without genetically modifying your body like Danzo and Kabuto did. Even then, you'll likely never escape their shadow as these people have the virtue of being naturally gifted with these indomitable feats of strength, vitality, and ability with no impurities or unfamiliarity with these skills hindering them.

 

which she has, sakura has perfectly mastered fuinjutsu,

You're making those inconclusive pretensions again. Sakura has not shown greater intelligence or fighting power without Tsunade leaning on a crutch. Her fuinjutsu has the same feats as Tsunade thus far except for the auto-regenerative skills given when it is released.

Edited by Atheck, 12 July 2013 - 03:41 AM.

[Atheck]

which is only for uzumaki's aka the Byakugo seal.

Another random claim made to exaggerate Sakura's limited feats. Do you have a chapter and page number that proves this?
 

Cant wait to see what'll happen when sakura releases the seal.

I can't wait either. Hopefully it's Slug Sage Mode, as unlikely that may to be.
 

Cant wait for the next chp. Sakura, whats your next move.

Continuing to monitor the battle between Tobi and the Edo Kages, Naruto, and Sasuke from the sidelines?
 

Oh and about sakuras chakra storing, well even if it wasnt half its still impressive that she went all out and focusing her chakra and releasing it

Considering that it was her first usage of the seal, yes, it was very impressive. I personally believe that more could have been offered to demonstrate the seal's effects on her fighting style, if there are any differences at all, but it was enjoyable as it lasted.
 

and at the same time storing it in her forehead and not to mention healing herself without seals,

Other characters have comparable feats but they were not hindered by the need to distribute chakra to an immaterial seal on her forehead. This was impressive of Sakura.
 

something that hashirama and tsunade with her released yin seal were able to do.

Don't forget the jinchuuriki who have used their bijuu's chakra, Kabuto, and Tobi (courtesy of the Mokuton implanted).
 

Side-Note: My apologies for the simultaneous posts, but I couldn't fit all of the quotes that I was attempting to specifically address into just one post. 

Edited by Atheck, 12 July 2013 - 01:58 AM.