277 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

I think it has to do with the amount of mistakes a character makes in the eyes of the readers. Both Sakura and Orihime are characters that make plenty of mistakes during the story because they are meant to have obvious flaws they need to over come. If the author is not quick to make them overcome their problems, those characters will lose a lot of likeability, especially to the less patient readers. Look at both characters today. They still make a lot of the same mistakes that most would have expected fixed by now.

At least this is something I think about, since I am a fan of these characters XD I definitely feel frustration with the authors over development or lack thereof. At the same time, they interest me because they, due to their mistakes, have more depth in my eyes.

That seems to it or maybe there just Happened to IR and NH Shipping fans first and Sakura and Orihime are a threat to said shippings. From what I know The bashers for Orihime are usually IR shippers at least to MY knowledge Sakura well It's obvious in most of the fans' eyes she's annoying. HECK My brother is a pretty neutral Naruto fan that doesn't play favorites with ANY character nor is he a shipping fan and he said Sakura seemed annoying to him and trust me, he was one of the first people to snap me out of my depression over the 540 scene by pointing it was most likely a reference to Sakura's FORMER feelings for Sasuke not what she feels now so he's not a hater for sure

@ boom

yes akane liked a doctor

sailor moon liked this blondie.

and chidori....she didnt like anyone but she did NOT like sosuke XDD most abusive chick ever XD lol but it was funny.

NO every tsundere is abusive no exceptions or standouts

Well, I knew there were links, I just opt not to click on them because I don't want to reminace back to a time, where Naruto was such a brat and was annoyingly cocky and Sakura used to be a bit*h (obviously, she toned it down a bit at the exams but not up to her shippuden days), thankfully three years of canon time, cured that problem and made me like their characters better than before. So basically, what's our conclusion to the matter? Obviously, we still going to see Hinata as a side character while her followers will do what they do and its never going to end. Why do people like her characteristics for the record, I probably know it was talked about eariler in the thread, but I just need a clear accurate view of why people like her character?

THE MANGA has toned Sakura's attitude The anime producers are completely throwing her character out the window but all tsunderes still seem to look more B****y in animes than in their respective mangas so I guess I can't complain

I personally dont care for Hinata I cant stand her lack of character development....and by development I dont mean her knockers. I think that if her fan base wasn't so rude and large in America I could handle Hinata better. However her fandom just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Everyone here as made so many valid points, I've always seen Hinata as a shallow person that only idolizes and admires Naruto, and those two things dont equal love. She has so little panel time and she clearly knows nothing about Naruto or his inner turmoil with the Kyuubi or Sasuke. I always tell Naru/Hina fans why should Naruto end up with her if shes not important at all. If she was she'd have more panel time and would actually progress as a character! They feed me all these fabrications that Naruto loves her and that she will do anything for him...that's just bull crap. I've always said that Hinata doesn't have real faith in Naruto, perfect example is the fight with Pain. She just couldn't stay put and not get involved, she just had to butt in because she had no faith that Naruto could pull through on his own. Her whole selfish speech about love was painful to watch, and it's the one thing all Naru/Hina fans base their arguments on. With her little "rescue" falling to pieces Naruto was left with so much hatred that he almost lost his soul to the Kyuubi. Most Naru/Hina fans stop arguing with me when I point out that Naruto could have lost his soul because of a fangirl. Besides if this confession was so real and important why did she not approach Naruto when he came back, or even better why didn't Naruto go looking for her?

Hinata isn't the type of women Naruto needs, he's the hero and he should get who he wants. Yes Sakura still has feelings for Sasuke, but she and Naruto's relationship has development so much compared to Naruto and Hinata's. Also Why would Kishi have Naruto's Father fall in love with someone that is so much like Sakura. Why isn't it obvious that this is foreshadowing, why is it so hard to see Kishi is putting an end to the pairing wars XD. I guess overall Hinata is boring, annoying, shallow, selfish, and delusional.Neji should have been born into the royal family instead of her. He's grown he's become such an awesome character and he interacts with his team mates. I guess If I could change one thing about Hinata it would be her fans, they have to be the rudest shippers I've ever seen of any pairing. Is their aggression a sign that they really know deep down their favorite couple will never happen?

That makes two of us on that opinion *Highfives* although I don't hate Hinata at all I just can't see her being with Naruto it just wouldn't work out so I don't see how so many people are convinced that it will

Edited by Phantom_999, 05 August 2011 - 01:32 AM.

[Paptala]

Out of curiousity, did any of those girls (Akane, Sailor Moon, or Chidori) have feelings for another guy before the ones you used in your example? Maybe I'm just being greedy, trying to add an SS analogy to the guns you've already given me for my shipping debate arsenal. Bwa ha ha!

I know this part wasn't directed at me and Merry already answered it, but I did want to add in a tidbit :
Usagi (Sailor Moon's) crush on Andrew didn't last beyond the first volume of the series ; neither did her dislike for Mamoru. The anime dragged her crush out for a bit longer, but again, it didn't last beyond half of the first season (out of five).

Akane's crush on Doctor Tofu was more serious, but again, it didn't last beyond the first half of the first volume, or beyond the first six episodes.

Not to be a downer or anything, just letting you know it's not completely the same situation as NaruSaku is in. Though I'm sure there are closer examples in other mangas (I simply haven't read all that many )

Epicly true post, like usual. Being in love with Naruto really doesn't amount to much if she's basically just rooting for him to herself. To me, every NaruHina moment seems to revolve entirely around Hinata's character, rather than Naruto's. He inspires her and provides her with a reason to grow, but what's she really done for Naruto's character, other than provide him with motivation to fight Neji and Pein (roles that could have easily fallen to someone else)?

Aw thanks

The bolded point is exactly the root of my feelings towards NH - it is centered around Hinata, with barely any Naruto in it himself.

I love bringing up the Naruto vs. Kiba fight to Hinata die-hards. During the fight, only one person vocally supported him. On top of that, when things look bad, who's faith in Naruto seems to waver? The best part about that fight is how early in the series it takes place. Even if Hinata supported Naruto before Sakura, it looks to me like Sakura surpassed her there before the manga even hit the 100-chapter mark.

Exactly - by the time that Hinata was introduced in the manga, Sakura was already at the point where she was trying to cheer him up if she thought that he was upset, willing to quit the chuunin exams for him in order to preserve his dream, and cheer loudly for him during the fights.

I've noticed that too. I'm curious, though, if it's related to her 'tsundere' personality, or just the fact that she developed faith in Naruto rather than having a static devotion to him. Or, if it's just the fact that she had feelings for the foil before the hero.
I think tsundere characters seem to get a lot of flack in the Western fandom, but I think the Sasuke crush might be tied into it too. I'm not sure if the example really works, but, in the Bleach fandom, I seem to see a lot more hate towards Orihime than Rukia, with Rukia being a more abrasive, tsundere-ish character than Orihime. But I don't know if that bashing is limited to the Western fandom, so it might be a poor comparison. *shrugs*

I think it has to do with the amount of mistakes a character makes in the eyes of the readers. Both Sakura and Orihime are characters that make plenty of mistakes during the story because they are meant to have obvious flaws they need to over come. If the author is not quick to make them overcome their problems, those characters will lose a lot of likeability, especially to the less patient readers. Look at both characters today. They still make a lot of the same mistakes that most would have expected fixed by now.

At least this is something I think about, since I am a fan of these characters XD I definitely feel frustration with the authors over development or lack thereof. At the same time, they interest me because they, due to their mistakes, have more depth in my eyes.

I had forgotten that Rukia, the more tsunderish character in Bleach, was more well liked than Orihime (whose personality is closer, though still drastically different imo, to Hinata's).

In that light, I suppose it is actually more of what you're saying than I originally assumed. It does seem to tie in to the amount of mistakes the characters are making, and how slowly they develop / get over certain issues.

Thanks for bringing that point up!

[Anguyen92]

That makes two of us on that opinion *Highfives* although I don't hate Hinata at all I just can't see her being with Naruto it just wouldn't work out so I don't see how so many people are convinced that it will

I, third that, it's not that I don't really like Hinata, in fact, I liked her when she was introduced, but as the stereotypical fanbase support, when someone really oversupports something, the appeal is lost and I agree I just don't see how the chemestry between her and Naruto would work out in an efficient manner, no matter how many times pierriot tries to force it. It's just not going to work without the proper developments in the manga.

[rikakim94]

I really think narusaku should really happen rather the sasusaku/naruhina.. It has more chemistry and development it even has both negative and positive moments that makes the relationship realistic. But one thing that worries me is that the over ribid sasusaku and naruhina fans might threatened kishi to make the shipping happen. Or else he is going to lose all his fans which means loads of money will be lost...sad thing is these fans are not letting the creator do what he wants It would even be bad if he let the fans get what they want considering that they pissed him off in one of his interviews. By saying that kishi should get rid of Sakura and replace her with hinata as main hero and love interest. Did I ever mention that he's gonna end up having more Sakura bashers if he let's it happen.....

[K9ofChaos]

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry if that was unclear. Kakashi (and maybe Lee) were supporting him, but Sakura was the only one yelling out his name.
By the way, you know the underlined words in my post are links, right? Sorry if you knew that, I wasn't sure if you saw the pics or not.


I think you're right on the money there. It makes sense, since character growth seems to be a huge aspect of both characters. I don't really know if Hinata has much in common with Rukia (if anything), but I think Sakura and Orihime's personality and character growth seem to outshine other female characters in their respective manga. I suppose their change in opinion on the hero can be compared, but maybe that comparison fall flats, considering Orihime had a negative opinion of Ichigo for only the first few chapters.
Interestingly enough though, a lot of SJ crossover fanart I've seen use Sakura and Orihime instead of Sakura/Rukia or Orihime/Hinata. So I think it might be the case that the characters might have the same appeal beyond their personality types.

I also agree that author can ruin a characters' perception through slow problem resolution. I mean, 500+ chapters into Naruto and we're still being reminded of Sakura's unhealthy feelings for Sasuke? On top of that, it's been 10 chapters since that scene, which is 2.5 months for manga readers. I guess I really hope we get a few more scenes proving that Sakura has gotten over Sasuke. I really want to see her as a heroine, but the whole romantic decision thing is weighing her down, in my opinion.


Woo hoo! I guess the comparisons work on multiple levels.

I strongly believe that Sakura has already gotten over her romantic feelings a long time ago during the timeskip. Which leaves me to believe that any lingering feelings she has for Sasuke are nothing more then friendship and camaraderie coupled with the sadness of seeing a dear friend go down such an unfortunate path filled with hatred and obsession with vengeance. Not to mention that I believe that her flashbacks of Sasuke in the Kage Summit Arc where just flashbacks of the good old times with no romantic implications on part of the present day part 2 Sakura who just sees Sasuke as a friend and teammate who she has no crush on whatsoever. You could also say that I believe that her mental image of Sasuke that was triggered by the Love Letter Ninja in this current arc was not an indication that Sakura still has romantic feelings for Sasuke but rather that she's ashamed of herself for even having those feelings in the past in the first place. She felt stupid for having a childish crush on Sasuke based on nothing more then his looks and not having any knowledge about how messed up Sasuke really is. Not to mention that this would not make Sakura feel any better about herself considering how she treated Naruto. I bet she feels guilty about treating Naruto like crap while fawning over Sasuke when it was Naruto who actually cared about her instead of Sasuke who was more concerned about avenging his clan.


The bottom line here is that I agree with you that there needs to be a couple of scenes that prove once and for all that Sakura no longer harbors any romantic feelings for Sasuke and that she had gotten over her crush long before part 2 even began. Not to mention that bringing up the bench scene would also help Sakura realize her feelings for Naruto even further. Please note that even though I believe that Sakura moved on from her crush on Sasuke before the start of part 2, I do not think that the bench scene with Naruto (transformed as Sasuke) has caused her to have lingering romantic feelings for Sasuke one pit. But I do believe that it would help her realize that Naruto knows her so well that he would unknowingly (but almost instinctually) make a fantasy of hers come to life. She would then find a whole new appreciation for Naruto due to the fact that he knows her extremely well and the plus of Naruto finding her forehead beautiful despite it being Sakura's least favorite trait self conscious wise. Though she would be mad at Naruto for deceiving her back then because she would've obviously fallen in love with him much sooner. And given her (heavily implied) romantic feelings for Naruto, she would've liked it if Naruto did that stunt in the bench scene not in disguise as Sasuke and it would be understandable why she would be mad. Granted part 1 Sakura would probably be confused and embarrassed to the point of punching Naruto but at least it would have made Naruto and herself get together much sooner in part 2 Sakura's eyes. It would've made her realize her feelings for Naruto much sooner during the course of part 1 which I imagine that part 2 Sakura would've like that very much. Naruto would then apologize about it and maybe hug her or something like that. Don't you think that would be a splendid narusaku moment?


In conclusion, I want some scenes that prove once and for all that Sakura no longer has a romantic crush on Sasuke with no vagueness or ambiguity but just a straightforward blunt moment that shows us that Sakura completely got over her past crush on Sasuke sometime during the middle of the timeskip and started realizing her romantic feelings for Naruto from then on to by the time he got back from his training with Jiraiya. :True:

[Konohakitten]

I really think narusaku should really happen rather the sasusaku/naruhina.. It has more chemistry and development it even has both negative and positive moments that makes the relationship realistic. But one thing that worries me is that the over ribid sasusaku and naruhina fans might threatened kishi to make the shipping happen. Or else he is going to lose all his fans which means loads of money will be lost...sad thing is these fans are not letting the creator do what he wants It would even be bad if he let the fans get what they want considering that they pissed him off in one of his interviews. By saying that kishi should get rid of Sakura and replace her with hinata as main hero and love interest. Did I ever mention that he's gonna end up having more Sakura bashers if he let's it happen.....

I have thought about that, but I'd like to think that Kishi would do what he wants to do no matter what fans have to say. As a writer I can understand how fans want you to go a certain path in your story. However when it boils down to it it's the authors story and they're just sharing with us so they should do what they want to do not what fans want. In an interview last year Kishimoto said Hinata was more of a heroin then Sakura and that he was going to change that this year. Lets face it Sakura's scene where she finds out Neji wasn't Neji but a spy was epic! I can see her doing so much in the war to prove herself as a heroin. Just because Sakura's character has made mistakes and has some faults makes her much more real and not so boring. Where as Hinata keeps everything to herself and all she does is follow Naruto around in the Shadows. I'm just happy things in Japan are better for Naru/Saku then here. I have a few readers that are from Japan and they reassure me that the fan base in Japan is for Saku/Naru. We're just unlucky for having such a large Naru/Hina base here >.< Like I said before if I could change one thing about Hinata it would be her fans D:<

[Miss Soupy]

I think you're right on the money there. It makes sense, since character growth seems to be a huge aspect of both characters. I don't really know if Hinata has much in common with Rukia (if anything), but I think Sakura and Orihime's personality and character growth seem to outshine other female characters in their respective manga. I suppose their change in opinion on the hero can be compared, but maybe that comparison fall flats, considering Orihime had a negative opinion of Ichigo for only the first few chapters.
Interestingly enough though, a lot of SJ crossover fanart I've seen use Sakura and Orihime instead of Sakura/Rukia or Orihime/Hinata. So I think it might be the case that the characters might have the same appeal beyond their personality types.

Actually, I don't think Orihime ever had a negative view of Ichigo (at least I can't recall one), which would stand her even more apart from Sakura on that respect. And Sakura's negative opinion didn't even last that long in the story, honestly, because by the chuunin exam she was already entertaining the idea of making sacrifices for Naruto specifically that would hamper Sasuke. So I don't think it has to do with their opinion about the main character so much as their repetitive mistakes. Sakura being a very subpar ninja to start with combined with her being a very emotional character. Orihime similarly not a strong fighter, to the point where she pretty much was given one battle when she got her powers, and also being very emotional while wishing to be stronger. Similar themes, yet these are attributes that are still with these two. Sakura is still just a 'healer' same as Orihime. Both are repeatedly used as damsel in distress while wanting to be better/stronger for the main character.

I also agree that author can ruin a characters' perception through slow problem resolution. I mean, 500+ chapters into Naruto and we're still being reminded of Sakura's unhealthy feelings for Sasuke? On top of that, it's been 10 chapters since that scene, which is 2.5 months for manga readers. I guess I really hope we get a few more scenes proving that Sakura has gotten over Sasuke. I really want to see her as a heroine, but the whole romantic decision thing is weighing her down, in my opinion.

Yeah, I know what you mean. By now it just feels too hammered down our throats. The whole 'conflicted feelings' thing has been done to death by this point, and it's not good enough to say she just needs more time. We know her feelings for Sasuke are negative. We know she is confused. Let's move on to fixing the problem XD

Similarly with Orihime...she had her weakest point in the manga, aka. The Dome, yet she has not been given the chance to make up for it. If characters that experience an extreme low point don't soon after have a high point given to them, it turns into readers disliking them. The heroes don't get this treatment. You will see with heroes that usually their lows are followed quickly by high points. It's like a balancing act, need to have just as many good moments as bad moments otherwise you will tip the scales.

That seems to it or maybe there just Happened to IR and NH Shipping fans first and Sakura and Orihime are a threat to said shippings. From what I know The bashers for Orihime are usually IR shippers at least to MY knowledge Sakura well It's obvious in most of the fans' eyes she's annoying. HECK My brother is a pretty neutral Naruto fan that doesn't play favorites with ANY character nor is he a shipping fan and he said Sakura seemed annoying to him and trust he was one of the first people to snap me out of my depression over the 540 scene by pointing it was most likely a reference to Sakura's FORMER feelings for Sasuke not what she feels now so he's not a hater for sure

Some of it might be shipping, but I like to think that only the extreme parts of fandom hate on a character to support their pairing. A lot of UlquiHime fans also ship IchiRuki, but that doesn't mean they ship Ichigo with her to get him freed up. And I don't ship IchiRuki yet I love UlquiHime. *shrugs*

Ahhh, 540? I dunno, I guess it pretty random. I happen to believe that it was a fairly direct confirmation from Kishi that Sakura still was struggling with her feelings. What else is new? It didn't make me run for the hills. He at least is sticking with the theme of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being completely negative and corrupts her character. If SS wants that as proof, they can go right ahead

I had forgotten that Rukia, the more tsunderish character in Bleach, was more well liked than Orihime (whose personality is closer, though still drastically different imo, to Hinata's).

In that light, I suppose it is actually more of what you're saying than I originally assumed. It does seem to tie in to the amount of mistakes the characters are making, and how slowly they develop / get over certain issues.

Thanks for bringing that point up!

No problem! Believe me, it is something I have been curious about myself XD I can't help but wonder why people tend to like certain characters and pairings in one story, and then completely opposite characters/pairings in the next. For example the two top pairings I have been involved in, UlquiHime and NaruSaku seem completely different. If I like the villain with the, you know, innocent girl in on manga, why don't I like something similar in the next? I guess though, if I think about it, the main characteristic I see in both these pairings is the Yin/Yang elements, the completion of one another, heaven/earth. So then really, maybe I do choose similar pairings without knowing it... XD It's fun to think about..

[alexander]

No problem! Believe me, it is something I have been curious about myself XD I can't help but wonder why people tend to like certain characters and pairings in one story, and then completely opposite characters/pairings in the next. For example the two top pairings I have been involved in, UlquiHime and NaruSaku seem completely different. If I like the villain with the, you know, innocent girl in on manga, why don't I like something similar in the next? I guess though, if I think about it, the main characteristic I see in both these pairings is the Yin/Yang elements, the completion of one another, heaven/earth. So then really, maybe I do choose similar pairings without knowing it... XD It's fun to think about..

You should know by now that shippings are not supposed to make much sense Soupy, lol. It's about that primitive instinct that awakes on us when see two characters interacting and you think, THAT'S IT!, lmao
I myself for example,like narusaku duo to my undying love for tsundere relationships, while on bleach, I really like the Ichihime relationship, wich is strange since I'm usually not too found of shy girl characters, but Orihime is such an clutz that I can't be helped.

[rikakim94]

one thing i would like point out about sakura bashers is that they try make her look like more of a failure in video games such as picking on (by commenting on youtube) her if somones not playing her right or use hinata to beat sakura up and win the fight...if only these bashers realize the harsh truth about hinata or the mental hate they have on sakura they will realize that they are the ones that are forcing the over hate ,ignorance and exaggerated opinion.

Its like there over useing fanon hate.

[Phantom_999]

I really think narusaku should really happen rather the sasusaku/naruhina.. It has more chemistry and development it even has both negative and positive moments that makes the relationship realistic. But one thing that worries me is that the over ribid sasusaku and naruhina fans might threatened kishi to make the shipping happen. Or else he is going to lose all his fans which means loads of money will be lost...sad thing is these fans are not letting the creator do what he wants It would even be bad if he let the fans get what they want considering that they pissed him off in one of his interviews. By saying that kishi should get rid of Sakura and replace her with hinata as main hero and love interest. Did I ever mention that he's gonna end up having more Sakura bashers if he let's it happen.....

Yeah it Bugs a lot of people Welcome to the club by the way enjoy your time here

I strongly believe that Sakura has already gotten over her romantic feelings a long time ago during the timeskip. Which leaves me to believe that any lingering feelings she has for Sasuke are nothing more then friendship and camaraderie coupled with the sadness of seeing a dear friend go down such an unfortunate path filled with hatred and obsession with vengeance. Not to mention that I believe that her flashbacks of Sasuke in the Kage Summit Arc where just flashbacks of the good old times with no romantic implications on part of the present day part 2 Sakura who just sees Sasuke as a friend and teammate who she has no crush on whatsoever. You could also say that I believe that her mental image of Sasuke that was triggered by the Love Letter Ninja in this current arc was not an indication that Sakura still has romantic feelings for Sasuke but rather that she's ashamed of herself for even having those feelings in the past in the first place. She felt stupid for having a childish crush on Sasuke based on nothing more then his looks and not having any knowledge about how messed up Sasuke really is. Not to mention that this would not make Sakura feel any better about herself considering how she treated Naruto. I bet she feels guilty about treating Naruto like crap while fawning over Sasuke when it was Naruto who actually cared about her instead of Sasuke who was more concerned about avenging his clan.


The bottom line here is that I agree with you that there needs to be a couple of scenes that prove once and for all that Sakura no longer harbors any romantic feelings for Sasuke and that she had gotten over her crush long before part 2 even began. Not to mention that bringing up the bench scene would also help Sakura realize her feelings for Naruto even further. Please note that even though I believe that Sakura moved on from her crush on Sasuke before the start of part 2, I do not think that the bench scene with Naruto (transformed as Sasuke) has caused her to have lingering romantic feelings for Sasuke one pit. But I do believe that it would help her realize that Naruto knows her so well that he would unknowingly (but almost instinctually) make a fantasy of hers come to life. She would then find a whole new appreciation for Naruto due to the fact that he knows her extremely well and the plus of Naruto finding her forehead beautiful despite it being Sakura's least favorite trait self conscious wise. Though she would be mad at Naruto for deceiving her back then because she would've obviously fallen in love with him much sooner. And given her (heavily implied) romantic feelings for Naruto, she would've liked it if Naruto did that stunt in the bench scene not in disguise as Sasuke and it would be understandable why she would be mad. Granted part 1 Sakura would probably be confused and embarrassed to the point of punching Naruto but at least it would have made Naruto and herself get together much sooner in part 2 Sakura's eyes. It would've made her realize her feelings for Naruto much sooner during the course of part 1 which I imagine that part 2 Sakura would've like that very much. Naruto would then apologize about it and maybe hug her or something like that. Don't you think that would be a splendid narusaku moment?


In conclusion, I want some scenes that prove once and for all that Sakura no longer has a romantic crush on Sasuke with no vagueness or ambiguity but just a straightforward blunt moment that shows us that Sakura completely got over her past crush on Sasuke sometime during the middle of the timeskip and started realizing her romantic feelings for Naruto from then on to by the time he got back from his training with Jiraiya. :True:

Amen to that Chaos I second that

Actually, I don't think Orihime ever had a negative view of Ichigo (at least I can't recall one), which would stand her even more apart from Sakura on that respect. And Sakura's negative opinion didn't even last that long in the story, honestly, because by the chuunin exam she was already entertaining the idea of making sacrifices for Naruto specifically that would hamper Sasuke. So I don't think it has to do with their opinion about the main character so much as their repetitive mistakes. Sakura being a very subpar ninja to start with combined with her being a very emotional character. Orihime similarly not a strong fighter, to the point where she pretty much was given one battle when she got her powers, and also being very emotional while wishing to be stronger. Similar themes, yet these are attributes that are still with these two. Sakura is still just a 'healer' same as Orihime. Both are repeatedly used as damsel in distress while wanting to be better/stronger for the main character.


Yeah, I know what you mean. By now it just feels too hammered down our throats. The whole 'conflicted feelings' thing has been done to death by this point, and it's not good enough to say she just needs more time. We know her feelings for Sasuke are negative. We know she is confused. Let's move on to fixing the problem XD

Similarly with Orihime...she had her weakest point in the manga, aka. The Dome, yet she has not been given the chance to make up for it. If characters that experience an extreme low point don't soon after have a high point given to them, it turns into readers disliking them. The heroes don't get this treatment. You will see with heroes that usually their lows are followed quickly by high points. It's like a balancing act, need to have just as many good moments as bad moments otherwise you will tip the scales.


Some of it might be shipping, but I like to think that only the extreme parts of fandom hate on a character to support their pairing. A lot of UlquiHime fans also ship IchiRuki, but that doesn't mean they ship Ichigo with her to get him freed up. And I don't ship IchiRuki yet I love UlquiHime. *shrugs*

Ahhh, 540? I dunno, I guess it pretty random. I happen to believe that it was a fairly direct confirmation from Kishi that Sakura still was struggling with her feelings. What else is new? It didn't make me run for the hills. He at least is sticking with the theme of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being completely negative and corrupts her character. If SS wants that as proof, they can go right ahead


No problem! Believe me, it is something I have been curious about myself XD I can't help but wonder why people tend to like certain characters and pairings in one story, and then completely opposite characters/pairings in the next. For example the two top pairings I have been involved in, UlquiHime and NaruSaku seem completely different. If I like the villain with the, you know, innocent girl in on manga, why don't I like something similar in the next? I guess though, if I think about it, the main characteristic I see in both these pairings is the Yin/Yang elements, the completion of one another, heaven/earth. So then really, maybe I do choose similar pairings without knowing it... XD It's fun to think about..

Well Sakura bashers have a huge number of NH shippers; the really rabid ones might I add So I don't see Orihime being bashed by anyone other than IR shippers because she's not a tsundere for one and I don't find her character annoying at all but maybe others do like I said it's a big world

Edited by Phantom_999, 05 August 2011 - 01:44 AM.

[Super Boom]

I know this part wasn't directed at me and Merry already answered it, but I did want to add in a tidbit :
Usagi (Sailor Moon's) crush on Andrew didn't last beyond the first volume of the series ; neither did her dislike for Mamoru. The anime dragged her crush out for a bit longer, but again, it didn't last beyond half of the first season (out of five).

Akane's crush on Doctor Tofu was more serious, but again, it didn't last beyond the first half of the first volume, or beyond the first six episodes.

Not to be a downer or anything, just letting you know it's not completely the same situation as NaruSaku is in. Though I'm sure there are closer examples in other mangas (I simply haven't read all that many )

Haha, darn. Oh well, I guess even if they did work, comparisons are only valid if we see proof Kishi used them as inspirations. I think, as far as the romantic subplot goes, the only thing we know Kishi really drew upon was Slam Dunk, and that really doesn't help any pairing, since I don't recall the romantic subplot being resolved there.
But I do think Merry's example worked well to prove why Hinata's 'loving the hero first' status doesn't imply that she's laid claim to him or something. It's just hard to find an example similar to SasuSaku I suppose.

Thanks for pointing that out, LOL.

Actually, I don't think Orihime ever had a negative view of Ichigo (at least I can't recall one), which would stand her even more apart from Sakura on that respect. And Sakura's negative opinion didn't even last that long in the story, honestly, because by the chuunin exam she was already entertaining the idea of making sacrifices for Naruto specifically that would hamper Sasuke. So I don't think it has to do with their opinion about the main character so much as their repetitive mistakes. Sakura being a very subpar ninja to start with combined with her being a very emotional character. Orihime similarly not a strong fighter, to the point where she pretty much was given one battle when she got her powers, and also being very emotional while wishing to be stronger. Similar themes, yet these are attributes that are still with these two. Sakura is still just a 'healer' same as Orihime. Both are repeatedly used as damsel in distress while wanting to be better/stronger for the main character.

Haha, wow, I guess I didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't jump into the Bleach manga till later, and it looks like the anime and the manga kind of differ during the first arc. I recall Orihime being scared of Ichigo's 'serious face' for the first few episodes before the the fight with Sora, but I can't seem to find that happening in the manga. That's interesting that they'd change something like that. Though I guess it could easily just be the anime showing her shyness in a different way, and I was just dumb and misinterpreted it. But yeah, I suppose Sakura and Orihime are a lot more different in that aspect, but similar in several other ways.

Ahhh, 540? I dunno, I guess it pretty random. I happen to believe that it was a fairly direct confirmation from Kishi that Sakura still was struggling with her feelings. What else is new? It didn't make me run for the hills. He at least is sticking with the theme of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being completely negative and corrupts her character. If SS wants that as proof, they can go right ahead

That's what I tend to think too. I hate to say it, but I think Sakura's character has sort of been absorbed into the romantic subplot. I'd like to see more of the badassery we saw during the Sasori fight, but the whole Naruto vs. Sasuke romantic decision is becoming one of the primary themes of her character. I have no doubt that NaruSaku will be Kishi's endgame, but I guess I wish that aspect of her character would be resolved earlier. Or at least that we'd receive more blatant confirmation of it, if it already has been resolved.

@K9ofChaos: I agree with most everything you said, but I guess I'm just not that good at reading into these sort of things. I generally prefer to keep an open-mind, so I can alter my perception of what's going on, were Kishi to continue showing scenes like we saw in 540. The only thing that I for sure know about that 540 panel is that Sakura's feelngs for Sasuke seem to elicit a negative reaction. I agree with you that I hope, if her feelings for Sasuke already have resolved, we'll see proof of it soon.

You should know by now that shippings are not supposed to make much sense Soupy, lol. It's about that primitive instinct that awakes on us when see two characters interacting and you think, THAT'S IT!, lmao
I myself for example,like narusaku duo to my undying love for tsundere relationships, while on bleach, I really like the Ichihime relationship, wich is strange since I'm usually not too found of shy girl characters, but Orihime is such an clutz that I can't be helped.

For me, it usually starts with me shipping my favorite male and female characters, regardless of how much evidence there is. Then I tend to jump ship when I get a better idea of how likely it looks. With Bleach, I started shipping IshiHime, but I guess I grew to like IchiHime after her confession. In Naruto, I started with NaruHina, but that was more me not liking Sakura at first, rather than liking Hinata. It wasn't till Part II that I grew to like Sakura, and only then did I go back and re-read/re-watch old chapters/episodes to realize I was being unfair with her character. Now I love the NaruSaku pairing. I suppose the tsundere relationship helped with that too.

I don't know if that's taking this thread off-topic. It's sort interesting though how people develop their OTP's.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 05 August 2011 - 03:05 AM.

[Strangelove]

Feh...

the most successful Tsundere pairing was Winry/Edward. Even if they had to make a second anime to prove that was the main pairing, and not Ed/Rose as some annoying fans thought.


He he, even when people were cheering for Roy/Riza it never really happened, through before he lost his eyesight, you gotta admit that he began to show he had some feelings for his Lt.

I hope our ship ends in a more W/E than R/R

Edited by Strangelove, 05 August 2011 - 03:12 AM.

[alexander]

Feh...

the most successful Tsundere pairing was Winry/Edward. Even if they had to make a second anime to prove that was the main pairing, and not Ed/Rose as some annoying fans thought.


He he, even when people were cheering for Roy/Riza it never really happened, through before he lost his eyesight, you gotta admit that he began to show he had some feelings for his Lt.

I hope our ship ends in a more W/E than R/R

I have to disagree, while Winry have some tsundere traits, Ed and Winry are far way from being the most successful tsundere pairing, the most popular tsundere pairings are the ones like Touma and Misaka from the Index series or Shinji and Asuka, now these ones are extremelly well know. Besides, this topic is really starting to get offtopic.

Edited by alexander, 05 August 2011 - 03:18 AM.

[merryGOflava]

Feh...

the most successful Tsundere pairing was Winry/Edward. Even if they had to make a second anime to prove that was the main pairing, and not Ed/Rose as some annoying fans thought.


He he, even when people were cheering for Roy/Riza it never really happened, through before he lost his eyesight, you gotta admit that he began to show he had some feelings for his Lt.

I hope our ship ends in a more W/E than R/R

rose?? rose who? there was another girl besides whinry?

[CloudMountainJuror]

rose?? rose who? there was another girl besides whinry?

Rose was the girl from Liore.

[merryGOflava]

Rose was the girl from Liore.

OHHH!!!! :O the girl with....pink and brown hair?? she was paired with ed?? she wasnt shown that long though.

but i guess you can ship anything.

[CloudMountainJuror]

OHHH!!!! :O the girl with....pink and brown hair?? she was paired with ed?? she wasnt shown that long though.

but i guess you can ship anything.

I can understand people liking the idea of EdRose; he inspired her and stuff and she has actual decent character development (unlike someone else).

[Nate River]

OHHH!!!! :O the girl with....pink and brown hair?? she was paired with ed?? she wasnt shown that long though.

but i guess you can ship anything.

Fans may have paired them because of thge first anime, but Ed was never actually paired with her in any of the versions I'm aware of.

In the first anime, she had a significant role in the latter half of the series and the two had a lot of interaction, but nothing romanic. The first anime (which deviates significantly from the manga and second anime) ended with no pairings.

I can understand people liking the idea of EdRose; he inspired her and stuff and she has actual decent character development (unlike someone else).

I liked the pairing.

[Super Boom]

Fans may have paired them because of thge first anime, but Ed was never actually paired with her in any of the versions I'm aware of.

In the first anime, she had a significant role in the latter half of the series and the two had a lot of interaction, but nothing romanic. The first anime (which deviates significantly from the manga and second anime) ended with no pairings.

I felt like Ed/Rose was hinted at a little bit at the end the first anime, and maybe in the Conqueror of Shamballa movie with that Romani girl who looked just like her. Nothing actually came of it though, as I recall.
I do remember though that one of the OVAs for the first anime, which takes place in our present-day world after the movie, had three kids that looked just like Ed, Al, and Winry going to meet their grandfather, who was implied to be the real Edward. So that could be an implication that Winry found her way to 'our' world and had kids with Ed or Al.

Sorry for taking us even further off topic again, this thread really seems subject to deviating from the Hinata conversation for some reason.

[Anguyen92]

^^ Well if that is the case, we should get back to talking about Hinata, although I think we already covered the masses of her character or create another thread for situations like these.

Edited by anguyen92, 05 August 2011 - 03:55 PM.