54229 replies to this topic

[Otaru]

Thank you !

I knew it it was odd lol

[Verilance]

before the movie came out you wouldn't believe how much anxiety that one poster caused lol

[bthug]

Didnt Naruto kill Kakuzu? 

[Gravenimage]

Didnt Naruto kill Kakuzu? 

 

Naruto killed two of Kakuzu's hearts with rasen shuriken and Kakashi killed the last one with chidori. 

[rocci]

Naruto never kill person, but he kill/destroy monster.

[Mistraal]

I'm guessing it will be mainly about the whole ninja system, and also the main themes of manga, such as truly understanding your enemies.


Ah, Quistis. I remember some fans thought it was shoddy writing for her to suddenly give up on her feelings for Squall, simply because the game was all about Rinoa. It was just too... Convenient.

I think Sakura will forever love Sasuke as a friend/ idol, but she'll never have a relationship with him. He doesn't want to open up to her, and she won't be able to live a life where she has to oppress her own hotheaded personality.

 

If i recall correctly, Quistis was also a few years Squall's senior. I always interpreted it as more of a little crush than anything serious. She wasn't head over heels in love with him, just more of a "Hey...at some point he got really cute. Aw, he likes this girl that's adorable." Then she got over it. She seemed too mature to get too wrapped up in it.

That's how I saw it anyway.

 

I won't really be happy with the Sasuke returning bit until Sakura deals with the fact he tried to kill her repeatedly. That's not something you just brush off your shoulder. Even if Sasuke turns on them I want something from Sakura like "I expected this" or something to that effect.

Edited by Mistraal, 12 June 2013 - 02:15 AM.

[Transformers03]

"What if what I want makes you sad at me?"

What if Kishi's understanding of the fanbases is actually reflected in the characters he works with? Something I have been thinking about...or over thinking about it is. Which each character reflects a certain type of viewpoint.

Word of the post: Appreciation.

Let's dive into the lives of the characters themselves:

Naruto.
Naruto is a character that is the embodiment of the word. He is a man who grew up with no parents, no friends, and no "power" so to speak. He was the "little guy" as some put it. The underdog of this fight. Over the course of the series he fought to gain respect and power; striving for the goal to become Hokage so he could be loved and respected. Little did he know that to be Hokage you needed to have the people follow you. Maybe that was the true goal all along. What is it that they say? A man who has never known power understands the value of strength, and knows compassion.

Naruto soon gains power and friends. He appreciates them more than anything in this world. Maybe even more than his dreams as he is willing to sacrificing everything for them. Albeit a little over appreciative, Naruto is the story of a weak boy becoming one of the most powerful men the world has ever known. A moral standing that, while flawed, shows the best of humanity. I'll explain even more how this plays into a bigger picture later.

Sakura.
A girl who what we call the "middle-ground." She had power, but never focused on it because she too interested in her own desires. She soon learns to appreciate the small things in her life. She still strives for what she desires, but she also becomes aware of things she never knew she had. Stuff she used to take for granted. This includes her friends and her love life. She wanted Sasuke so bad, but learned that Naruto did everything for her. She grew to appreciate him and because of that understood the meaning of power as well. She knew strength was not just in physical, but emotionally as well. Letting things get to you is what keeps you from reaching true potential. When she learned to let go of selfish gains, she appreciated what she had and worked harder for the right reasons and in teh right area.

Sasuke.
I shall call him the "Man who had everything." He knew his parents. His powers are basically hand-me downs granted to him all because he "feels." His heritage made him prestige and praised. Popularity came easy to him. The girls wanted him and the guys wanted to be him. Because he already was in the lap of luxury he took for granted everything. Literally the opposite to Naruto, a man who has it all and yet wants none of it. Never appreciates his friends. Never appreciates his power, and never understood to appreciate the little things in life. Little did he know how much he influences. To this day he still doesn't care. It is all about him. Sure he could get a girl easy, but because it was easy is why he never appreciates it. Thus he takes it all for granted.

Hinata.
Another girl who "understands what she gets, but always desires more." She also doesn't appreciate stuff, but not because she can't, but rather because she is greedy. She wants more. Once isn't enough. Reminds of the man who pleads to God for something finer, bargaining for even a moment, and when finally give wants more than what she bargained for. Nothing is good enough until she gets exactly what she wants...and what she wants keeps changing. Little does she realize, she is greedy. Unlike Sakura who understands the situations, she is too busy into what she wants that she ignores the reality that she lives in for the fantasy she creates. She is not a bad person, but rather is just too greedy to notice anything beyond what she wants to see.


How the pairings reflect?
NaruSaku.
A pairing who grew to understand each other. They are aware of each other's desires and wants...although it can be argues that Naruto still sees Sakura as part 1. Point is, it is not about themselves. It is about the other. What the other person wants, not what they desires themselves. While Sakura started out selfish, she developed into something more. Both appreciate each other and what they have done for each other over the years. The only issue is that Naruto needs to open up his eyes to a truth that maybe Sakura wants him as much as he wants her. He does suffer a Hinata syndrome of not realizing the truth, but not for the reason of greed. Rather he is so appreciative of her, he wants her happiness to be above all else. That means when he does get a moments of romance or a moment of Sakura caring for him, he appreciates it. Same with Sakura. She appreciates and understands everything Naruto does.

SasuSaku
A rather selfish pairing. It is all about themselves. Before Sakura was all about her to the point that she abandoned her friends for it. A mistake she soon rectified. A pairing built on a lie rather than truth, Sasuke is also a person who cares not for anything, but himself. A desire he has that changes like the wind. Revenge, mostly. Perhaps his new dreams of Hokage is also for revenge, but a different kind of revenge. This pairing shows that following self-satisfaction goals, lead to unimportant moments and caring now of what is happening in the real world.

NaruHina
A pairing built on greed. This is different than self-satisfaction. Unlike self-satisfaction, greed can have emotions and caring. Doesn't mean you aren't greedy. It just means you're narrow minded. It is all about this and nothing else matters. So is Hinata. A very narrow-minded girl who sole ideals are based around her love for Naruto. His nindo, his lifestyle, his motivation, and vision. Yet, she never notices his desires. She never built her own either. His goals are her goals. His way of life is her way of life. She is like a mirror and just reflects who ever she points at. Unfortunitly, she is a cloudy mirror and never reflects the light that shines on her. She never appreciates the moments when Naruto actually pays attention to her and desires more. "I want to confess. I want to tell him." She did and it wasn't enough. "I want to be seen as strong." Naruto says she is and it still wasn't enough. "I want to hold his hand and walk beside him." And still, it isn't enough. (Again, arguably, people will say the last one is a different case, but I am waiting to see how she truly takes such a thing. So for now, I'll remain constant.) Greed.


How does this reflect on the fanbase?

NaruSaku fans
For the most part, the NS fans seem to know when the moments exist. The moments that are so small, but play such a huge role. The hug scene, the feeding the scene, the bridge scenes, perhaps even moments in part 1. NS fans appreciate the moments no matter how small and see as them getting closer. Maybe as friends, or maybe as something more. We understand that they can be friends, but aware that sometimes this is only the first step to a successful relationship. Every moment counts, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. While our moments are sometimes small and a bit ambiguous, we love them none the less. We love every interaction and love how not only Naruto, but Sakura have grown.
 
SasuSaku fans
SS fans only see what they want to believe. Sakura loves Sasuke. Even of story. They see Sakura as selfish and Sasuke as this true successor. Sounds familiar? I hope it does. Do they see the change? I think the real question is, does it matter to them? It doesn't matter what changes over the course of time. They don't appreciate the other stuff because they care not to. Like Sasuke, they care for nothing, but the own desire of the fandom. SS must be canon no matter what has changed. No matter how Sakura or Sasuke change, she will always be selfish and he will always be the best choice for her. He tried to kill her? Naw, he just doesn't realize his feelings yet. The feelings he secretly desires.

NaruHuna fans.
How to explain this one? "Kishi, we want Hinata to express how she feels to Naruto." Chapter 437 happens and Naruto shows no response to it other than her "dying." "I want more. Now I want Naruto to see Hinata's strength" Chapter 559 Naruto saves Hinata and says to her "Don't be so hard on yourself. You're strong too." "Now I want Naruto to acknowledge Hinata now and I want Hinata to get her wish to hold his hand." Chapter 615 got exactly that. Naruto acknowledged her and held her hand exactly how she wanted. It lead to nothing. "Waaaah, I want more." All the while ignoring Naruto's love for Sakura, ignoring Sakura changing development, and ignoring everything that has happened in the manga. Instead of appreciating all the moments that NaruHina does get, they whine and desire more. Also sound familiar? Nothing is ever satisfactory and nothing else matters. It is all about Hinata and her desires, never about anyone else. Naruto? Who cares what he wants, we care not. We just want Hinata because she deserves it. Hinata may seem good on the outside and her personality is shy and kind, but reality is she is very greedy. A sour among the sweet.

Taking these things into consideration, perhaps Kishi is trying to reflect the fanbases in the manga with the pairings themselves. I wouldn't put it past him and the subliminal messages could be the key. Kishi is often a man who plays stupid, but really is very smart. Time and time again he throws us curve balls and what not like crazy and at times we find ourselves the morons. Assuming something that isn't and even at times claim him to be a bad writer when really he isn't. Yes, he can make mistakes and at times has written things....sub-par; mostly because he had written himself into a hole that he had to use a cheap trick to get out of it. He is human after all, but when he truly writes the story the story is near perfect. I even say genius in some ways. I don't know what he is planning, but I am expecting great things.





 

This was in the 633 thread, but since were not really suppose to talk about the other pairing bases in chapter threads, I will say what I want to say about it here (unless it turns out not allowed here either).

 

I think you are over-thinking it. Kishi is a smart man, though I doubt that bases an entire subplot on the thoughts of the fans. This post has actually prove to me that NH fans have gotten almost exactly they wanted. It could be Kishi's intention to give fans what they want, but why would he if they aren't important to the story. He obviously place them there for a reason, it could be simple fanservice, but why? Not only that, but I feel like that you simply categorize all shippers into simple bias stereotypes categories when fans are a lot more complicated than that. You also made NS seem a lot better than the other pairings when we have also been guilty of the same things you have pointed out (greed and seeing things the way we want to).

 

HOWEVER, with all that said, I still think this is very well made post, which has does share some insight of Naruto shipping fans. It's an interesting read, though I still feel like you are simply overanalyzing it. While agree with how you described the characters, and how WE view the pairing, and don't necessary agree with how you describe Hinata's motives (greed). While her motives seems selfish in a logical, real world sense, I doubt that was Kishi's intention. 

 

Ultimately they post has some interesting food for thought, things to simply toy around with, though I wouldn't essentially call it accurate.

[Nefertieh]

If i recall correctly, Quistis was also a few years Squall's senior. I always interpreted it as more of a little crush than anything serious. She wasn't head over heels in love with him, just more of a "Hey...at some point he got really cute. Aw, he likes this girl that's adorable." Then she got over it. She seemed too mature to get too wrapped up in it.

That's how I saw it anyway.

 
I think some people just didn't like how it was handled. A deus ex machina, in a way.

I won't really be happy with the Sasuke returning bit until Sakura deals with the fact he tried to kill her repeatedly. That's not something you just brush off your shoulder. Even if Sasuke turns on them I want something from Sakura like "I expected this" or something to that effect.

Well, I'm sure Naruto and Sakura are both people capable of forgiveness, especially with the whole "Uchiha gene" now on the table. I would expect Sakura to realise he isn't who she wants to be with, even though she will hold him dear.

[Mistraal]

 
I think some people just didn't like how it was handled. A deus ex machina, in a way.



Well, I'm sure Naruto and Sakura are both people capable of forgiveness, especially with the whole "Uchiha gene" now on the table. I would expect Sakura to realise he isn't who she wants to be with, even though she will hold him dear.

Pfft he doesn't get any pardons because of genetics. Don't kill your friends. Period. Sasuke is and will forever be an asshat unless Kishi deals with this properly.

My 2 cents.

[Slextrem]

Lately Kishimoto has been referencing a lot of his foreshadows from Part One, such as Team Seven being the Neo-Sannin, Sakura finally catching up to Naruto and Sasuke (as she had wished in the Forest of Death), the resolution to the Hyuuga sub-plot involving Neji and Hinata, etc... 

 

It shows that he hasn't forgotten the plans that he made for this series from the very beginning. While there are many good foreshadowed events to look forward to, (such as a reference to the bench scene perhaps), I'm worried about this one:

 

Edited by Slextrem, 12 June 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Lately Kishimoto has been referencing a lot of his foreshadows from Part One, such as Team Seven being the Neo-Sannin, Sakura finally catching up to Naruto and Sasuke (as she had wished in the Forest of Death), the resolution to the Hyuuga sub-plot involving Neji and Hinata, etc... 

 

It shows that he hasn't forgotten the plans that he made for this series from the very beginning. While there are many good foreshadowed events to look forward to, (such as a reference to the bench scene perhaps), I'm worried about this one:

I dont see it as a foreshadowing event, because there are other events that break off this panel, and also Naruto dying doesnt really make sense with Kishi's "Previous generation surpassing the next one".

Naruto is meant to be hokage and bring peace to the world also gets the girl he loves and be alive, surpassing his parents, Jiraiya and Hashirama.

 

Naruto could die but sincerely it will be something related to Obito which gives up his own life to revive Naruto to not revive Neji for some reason.
Also Naruto vs Sasuke soon but i feel that this is not the final fight but rather a brief fight and then they will fight later.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 June 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[Inferno180]

So in line with the recent chapter, with Sasuke's true goal, whatever it is, this event should impact Sakura obviously, but hopefully she acts mature to his reveal, whatever his plan is. Orochimaru, Jugo, and Sai speculated and Jugo basically confirmed Sasuke has some ulteror motive. This was as many like me thought, for now it was an enemy of my enemy type ordeal.

 

I'm really just wondering, could this be the finale of SS? Whatever Sasuke does can it be the thing that makes Sakura step back. eventually coming to terms with her own feelings? Whatever it is, it will impact her. Biggest of all, that Sakura-Kushina parallel is still active, haters are still going to be scrambling to try and say its invalid or does not exist or count.

[Endure]

Hey guys, well, let me change the phase of the discussion for a while.


- SPOILER -

(Well, I don't know how to insert spoiler tags, so I just created this.  Haha, sorry for being ignorant though  )
Have you already read the latest release in the manga ?  Well, to be specific, what I want you to look for is the last page of the latest release for a thought sparked up in my mind after finishing the the chapter.  What happened is that,  Sai asked Juugo about Sasuke's by saying "You also heard what Sasuke said...  What's his real goals?", then a panel of Sasuke facing the Juubi, but Juugo told him, "Who knows...", then a panel of Sakura was shown with a white background.  The last panel shows Orochimaru who approached Tsunade's current location but she wasn't shown in the panel for the chapter ended.  Well, I'm just gonna ask you guys though.  


Don't you think that one of Sasuke's goals is Sakura herself?  Well, I don't know, it's just a thought that sparked in my mind, and maybe it will be great if I'll open that thought to you guys here.  Well, actually I'm already starting to think about that Sakura maybe one of his goals.  That's just IMO.  But then guys, what do you think ?  Again, it's at the last page of the latest release.  Just check it for you to actually see what I'm talking about.  It's possible than you'll even have other inerpretations than mine.     Well, I also apologize for not just putting that page here like what you guys do if you want to show things you are talking about from the manga for I don't know how.  It's my first time to be in a community like this, hehe     Thanks!

[HauntedCake]

Hey guys, well, let me change the phase of the discussion for a while.


- SPOILER -

(Well, I don't know how to insert spoiler tags, so I just created this.  Haha, sorry for being ignorant though  )
Have you already read the latest release in the manga ?  Well, to be specific, what I want you to look for is the last page of the latest release for a thought sparked up in my mind after finishing the the chapter.  What happened is that,  Sai asked Juugo about Sasuke's by saying "You also heard what Sasuke said...  What's his real goals?", then a panel of Sasuke facing the Juubi, but Juugo told him, "Who knows...", then a panel of Sakura was shown with a white background.  The last panel shows Orochimaru who approached Tsunade's current location but she wasn't shown in the panel for the chapter ended.  Well, I'm just gonna ask you guys though.  


Don't you think that one of Sasuke's goals is Sakura herself?  Well, I don't know, it's just a thought that sparked in my mind, and maybe it will be great if I'll open that thought to you guys here.  Well, actually I'm already starting to think about that Sakura maybe one of his goals.  That's just IMO.  But then guys, what do you think ?  Again, it's at the last page of the latest release.  Just check it for you to actually see what I'm talking about.  It's possible than you'll even have other inerpretations than mine.     Well, I also apologize for not just putting that page here like what you guys do if you want to show things you are talking about from the manga for I don't know how.  It's my first time to be in a community like this, hehe     Thanks!

 

Ok, Sakura being one of his goals i can buy into but it depends what he wants from her. Most likely he will try to manipulate her against Naruto. However if Sasuke wants to become a carbon copy of Naruto and hisdreams then... thats sad

[tricksie]

@Dark and Haunted cake, that's exactly what I thought too. It was a pretty clear that Kishimoto wants us to connect the dots and think that Sakura is one of Sasuke's goals. But to what end? I tend to think it's manipulation, not love. But interesting bit of foreshadowing. Curious to see how it will pan out.

 

Also, thanks guys for posting it here while we sort out some clearer pairing rules to prevent the bashing in the chapter threads.  

[六道仙人]

Why Sakura should be one of Sasuke's goals in the middle of the war? I think that Sasuke has something in his mind but not something related to Sakura by force....

[T XD]

Why Sakura should be one of Sasuke's goals in the middle of the war? I think that Sasuke has something in his mind but not something related to Sakura by force....

Same here.

[Inferno180]

It may be the NS side of me speaking but with Orochimaru, Jugo, and Sai now having seen what Sasuke having something planned in store, what his true motives are remain a mystery, this is the theme Kishi is teasing us with kinda like when Madara was Kabuto's trump card or blackmailing summon to even make Obito quake in fear.

 

I am only speculating that something will impact Sakura but turn her faith more towards Naruto. If this does turn out be an event of Sakura putting faith in Naruto or finally coming to terms with her feelings, it may be the thing to set in motion more from 631s Sakura-Kushina parallel.

 

As for Sakura being one of Sasuke's goals, I really cannot look at it like that, Sasuke still has been unaffected by Sakura in even the slightest, he impacts her but she does not impact him, theres the main ordeal there, I'd still just be going on like this just due to how in 632, yeah he smirked at her power, he was suprised and knew she improved but that does not mean he is suddenly going to take in interest in her, especially after the land of iron still. Especially because Sai's words have given Sakura some view that something is wrong, its not clear but she knows Sasuke is not fully on broad with them again, its not about just hokage. There is another reason and this can impact Naruto and Sakura causing a divide again. Besides Sakura left her faith in Naruto, she knows he will do something and she will do whatever she can for him. I don't see Sasuke as manipulating Sakura especially because Sakura is not gullible like she used to be, plus when did Sasuke ever have an interest in Sakura for anything, thats it right there, nothing of major importance. All I see in the forseeable future is that Sakura may turn away from Sasuke if his motives bring conflict to Naruto and more beyond just trying to become hokage. 631 still remains active too, nothing has overtaken or undermined it yet. The foreshadow is there and I'm suspecting that Sakura's reaction near the end may impact her, it may be the NS side of me speaking but this could be something to advance her or let her "overcome" her feelings for Sasuke, basically mature and see Naruto as more important. She supported him heavily these past few chapters, its still just another part of the journey, NS is still part of the journey, its not a destination.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Dark and Haunted cake, that's exactly what I thought too. It was a pretty clear that Kishimoto wants us to connect the dots and think that Sakura is one of Sasuke's goals. But to what end? I tend to think it's manipulation, not love. But interesting bit of foreshadowing. Curious to see how it will pan out.

 

Also, thanks guys for posting it here while we sort out some clearer pairing rules to prevent the bashing in the chapter threads.  

When 631 came we all knew how Sakura does have a step back when it comes to Sasuke she doesnt trust him, but put that aside when they fought together and now when Sai pointed out that Sasuke was hiding his true goals she gives a look that she knew it, it's like she always expect Sasuke to do something bad, if he tries to manipulate her it would surely fail because she knows he's bad person and 540 shows this.

 

I think next chapter will be determinant we will see Sakura's feelings and if she already got a resolution about it, or will get a resolution about that

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 12 June 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[Endure]

How about this one:  One of Sasuke's goals is something that has to deal with Sakura.   With regards to the pairings, I think that Kishi is planning something that will surprise/shock all of us.  I mean, he could make a great resolution, revelation, and/or turnovers that none of us even expected, but there is also a possibility that what he will create was already predicted or expected by us.  But of course, I am in a positive light that this will be for NS.  I don't know, but that's it.  That's what I feel with those things.

 Well, most of us say that they will enjoy the ride.  That's also what I will do, and I am already expecting shocking scenes with the future chapters.  After all, this ride must also be thrilling.  Rides that doesn't have thrills can be fine, but it won't be great and satisfying though, I guess. We're all in the same ship, and enjoying this ride will be really great.  Right now, I think we're in the calm before the storm.   But even though, once we are in that storm, I believe our ship will get through it.    

Thanks guys