4869 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Of course



I totally forgot about that. Sakura was obviously disturbed by Naruto's appearance, but she blew it off by saying ''you're always pushing yourself too far.'' Does this tell you that she thinks Naruto caused his state? Kishi didn't go into much detail about that, so neither will I.

She is now aware of how evil Sasuke's become, with or without the information Madara gave to Naruto. If she finds out, it will havd been the straw that broke the camel's back.

People are probably hating so much because Sakura's gained a mind of her own. They counted on her to ''love'' Sasuke no matter what he did. And, uh-oh, she realized he's no good for her, so she's a TRAITOR!

I think in the long run, Sakura was probably feeling as if he had no reason to be apologizing, especially since she might have felt she was responsible for Naruto getting hurt. It's probably why she wanted him to not keep his promise, because she didn't want him to get hurt again.

Yeah, I'm sure it's true Sakura's aware of it, even if it hurt to realize it.

*nods* Makes sense to me.

Bryon

[ciardha]

Sakura was obviously disturbed by Naruto's appearance, but she blew it off by saying ''you're always pushing yourself too far.'' Does this tell you that she thinks Naruto caused his state? Kishi didn't go into much detail about that, so neither will I.

No she wasn't blaming him, she was trying to lighten his down mood feeling he'd failed. (and some guilt on her part, feeling she was partly to blame for him pushing himself so far- the POAL) She then tries to get him to let go of the promise. And when he stubbornly won't she makes the resolve and tells him to wait till she gets stronger so the next time they can go after Sasuke together.

[Froot]

Hm. The whole Pairing debates have died down a bit on other forums too. But I've got no idea how NF is right now. Can someone let me know?

I've decided to list the most valid NH arguments I've ever heard, and see how you guys handle them. Just to kill some time.

1. After her confession, Naruto may be considering Hinata

2. Naruto doesn't seem to love Sakura anymore

3. Naruto and Sakura hate each other anyways.



It's the best I could find, besides ''NaruHina ftw!'' I couldn't even think of any. It's just that things are kind of... dull recently. I quite enjoyed all the heated debating!

[dfammer]

All of them sound desparate and lame.

[Miss Soupy]

Hm. The whole Pairing debates have died down a bit on other forums too. But I've got no idea how NF is right now. Can someone let me know?

I have been debating at NF...don't ask me why... pretty much only one debater for NH even bothers and even given adequate proof they won't budge.

I'll list some points I have seen:

1. Sakura was lying about everything and yet somehow she is not viewed as a horrible manipulator (I don't get it)
2. The reactions of everyone watching support Sakura lying about everything
3. Sakura hasn't had time to get over Sasuke (from Karui scene to present is all the time she had)
4. Sakura is acting solely logical, which not only makes her wrong, but means she can't be in love with Naruto
5. Sakura's fake confession will lead to Naruto falling out of love with her (enter NH)
6. Sakura will find Sasuke but hear the truth about the elders and Itachi; this will renew her love for him

[catsi563]

1. After her confession, Naruto may be considering Hinata

this is the most valid of the arguments and the only one with any foundation to it as it may be possible that Sakura could die leaving only Hinata to fall back on. Or kishimoto could use the confession to lay the beginnings of a foundation to start building the relationship up.

thus far he has not done either and so this remains merely speculation as naruto has not directly confronted Hinata on screen about what happened.

when he does im of the personal opinion based on Hinatas past that she will surprise a good many diehrad naruhina fans with her answer.

2. Naruto doesn't seem to love Sakura anymore

an invalid argument disproven by Sais flashback and Narutos wistful expression as he watches Sakura walk away, as well as his shocked reaction to her confession.

3. Naruto and Sakura hate each other anyways

also disproven as early as the wave arc where sakura made a promise to attempt to be nicer to naruto. Naruto as always loves Sakura at the bare minmimum and is willing to sacrfice evrything for her happiness.

not the actions of someone who hates another.

1. Sakura was lying about everything and yet somehow she is not viewed as a horrible manipulator (I don't get it)
2. The reactions of everyone watching support Sakura lying about everything

not valid arguments, mere speculation and opinion

3. Sakura hasn't had time to get over Sasuke (from Karui scene to present is all the time she had)

shes had 250+ chapters since before the timeskip and after it to "get over him" her own actions prove that she has moved on enough to where she is seeking him with the plan of killing him. if that isnt over someone I dont know what is.

4. Sakura is acting solely logical, which not only makes her wrong, but means she can't be in love with Naruto

a hypocritical argument at best. first Sakura is constantly accused of being overly emotional and not logical about sasuke and now shes being acused of being overly logical.

worse off the argument that logic makes her wrong is a fallacy any ways. logically Sasuke is a criminal that threatens Narutos life by his choice of joining akatsuki. logic dictates that you remove a threat to a friend rather then allow them to confront that threat where that threat may cause them harm.

so in conclusion logically Sakura is doing exactl the correct thing in hunting sasuke with out naruto as naruto hunting sasuke puts him in danger.

logically therefore since Sakura is protecting naruto, which is established by NaruHina fans as the reaosn for her near suicidal confession, then logically Sakura must love naruto as she is protecting him by chunting down sasuke.

meh go figure

5. Sakura's fake confession will lead to Naruto falling out of love with her (enter NH)

Mere speculation and opinion not a valid argument and has no support. if that were the case then Sakuras confession to sasuke should have logically caused him to stay if were arguing the validitiy of it.

6. Sakura will find Sasuke but hear the truth about the elders and Itachi; this will renew her love for him

again not a valid argument, but opinion and mere speculation. more than likely Sakuras hearing the truth will cause her to fight all the harder to protect Konoha as while she might understand better where Sasuke is coming from she will not allow him to blame all of konoha for the actions of a few.

add in the fact that the presense of Karin also renders any such aaction occuring unlikely because Karin wont be simply shoved aside given the fatc that kishimoto intentionally showed her and sasuke together in the mind scape realm beyond the need ot heal him.

as usual the most of the arguments provided are lacking in basic foundation and therefore rendered down to mere speculation and opinion which is not supported by facts.

[Lazy-Genius]

4. Sakura is acting solely logical, which not only makes her wrong, but means she can't be in love with Naruto

Wait a minute....if you think about someone then you can't be in love with them?!?! I've been going about my love life all wrong! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


oh wait, maybe they're talking about in Soviet Russia

Edited by Lazy-Genius, 20 November 2009 - 01:26 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

^ they are basically saying, because Sakura is thinking logically about the situation, she is completely ignoring her heart (which still loves Sasuke). So, she can't be in love with Naruto.

But it's like..um...Sakura is doing this because she cares about Naruto. You care with your heart but apparently Sakura's heart can only be used for Sasuke.

[James S Cassidy]

I want to add an argument that is COMPLETELY a ludicrous reason why NaruHina are canon. I swear this was a real argument that a NaruHina supporter told me.

"Naruto only has a crush on Sakura because he wanted to be popular. Now that he is popular without Sakura's love, now he will go for Hinata."

In the whole debate I had with the person, I couldn't even answer this one without laughing. So apparently the only reason why we fall in love is to be popular? Yeah....right. Yeah this is why Naruto said after Sai asked him if he loved her wonder if he ever told her "How can I, when I can't even keep my promises?"

Edited by James S Cassidy, 20 November 2009 - 01:48 AM.

[Daniee]

*Also, I've got a question; In the official Japanese - English translation, does Naruto call Hinata ''Hinata-chan?'' Because I've seen it before in various places and am unsure.

No. He never has.

Were your "various places" NaruHina fanfics?

6. Sakura will find Sasuke but hear the truth about the elders and Itachi; this will renew her love for him

Yeah. Hearing that Sasuke chose revenge on Konoha over protecting it like his brother wanted will definately change Sakura's opinion of him.
Unlike Naruto who wants to confront Sasuke and try to understand him, it doesn't seem to me like Sakura cares about his reasons at all.

[narusakuluv]

One very simple point I'd like to make is that Naruto has never even suggested giving up on Sasuke, while Sakura has. For the kind of love that is successful in fiction, the person who is your lover is supposed to care for you more than anyone else. But Naruto cares for Sasuke more than Sakura does. Hmm...

[Froot]

@ Daniee

Basically. That and fanarts. Foolish, I know, but I had to find out.

Regarding James's post; If they can say that Naruto fell in love with Sakura because he wanted to be popular then we can say Hinata fell in love with Naruto because she wanted to be popular.

Since when was Sakura even popular? The only popular students I can recall are... Well, Sasuke. Everyone else not so much

@Soupy

I'm tired of the double standards. If Sakura is looking out for Sasuke, she ''loves him and will do anything for him,'' but when it's Naruto, even though trying to eliminate a danger for a loved one even though it may hurt you is ''being a selfish shallow wh0re.''



Regarding Soupy's NH arguments

Are those what they're really using? Hm. That's not so bad (for us). Apparently they don't have much, so they've resorted to below-the-belt personal attacks. On Sakura.

[Miss Soupy]

Yeah...it's a bit annoying >.< Basically they are trying to say Sakura is bad enough that Naruto should fall out of love with her, but not bad enough that he won't forgive her. Which makes me ???? I just have a hard time agreeing that Sakura was lying about everything. However, taking the standpoint that she is, how does that make her look? She knows Naruto loves her so she goes to confess untruthfully because she feels guilty. This makes Sakura into a horrible manipulator who's major motivation is to remove guilt because she doesn't like feeling guilty. It's completely selfish on her part. So then I say, how in the world will Sakura and Naruto ever be friends after she did such a thing? And of course suddenly she isn't that bad and Naruto will forgive her because she had good intentions. I'm sorry, she just can't be lying about everything and not look horrible. And if she isn't that horrible and Naruto will forgive her, then she must not be lying about everything.

[RyrineaHaruno]

I find the Nh and SS argument are all without any facts to back things up, and the same bash Sakura mantra they keep spewing out to support their paring is getting beyond ridiculous. I find she is not lying about her love for Naruto, but see the thing she lied about her not caring about Sasuke.


used Microsoft word to check for spelling and grammar

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 21 November 2009 - 08:44 PM.

[jinsterr]

I'm pretty sure that if Sakura's confession had gone differently... the NaruHina fandom (or the really hardcore, fanatical ones at least) would still bash Sakura the way they are bashing her now, and probably bend things to suit their ship >.>

[ciardha]

Since when was Sakura even popular? The only popular students I can recall are... Well, Sasuke. Everyone else not so much

Ino seemed to be the popular one amongst the girls the bully girls who tormented Sakura didn't bother Ino and when Ino shoved the flower roots in the ringleader's (Ami- I think her name was) mouth and lied saying they were poison Ami and the other girls ran crying to the teacher, when Ino was interacting with the other girls in other scenes too she seemed to be the Alpha girl. Sakura was never popular, Ino just kept the other girls from tormenting Sakura, her status amongst the girls was still at the bottom rank- remember the other girls looking daggers at Sakura for daring to sit next to Sasuke "Who does she think she is!" they both are shown saying.

Hinata was never tormented by the other kids, she was from one of the two most elite families in Konoha, she would have had a lot higher status than Sakura, who was from a no status family- likely ninjas of some sort as she does have a family crest, but apparently nothing of note. Naruto and Sakura would have been social class wise not much different, and you can see that in the way they were viewed and treated by the other kids.

Even being an apprentice of the Hokage hasn't made her that well known, remember when she killed the centipede with one blow? The Jonin ninja who had been fleeing from it were stunned and didn't know who she was. Naruto on the other hand everyone seems to know. Sakura would now be well known in Suna, apparently much more than in Konoha.

Edited by ciardha, 20 November 2009 - 04:10 AM.

[narusakuluv]

Honestly, Naruhina fans are very sensitive of their ship because they know that they don't have any stable legs to stand on.
A lot of them say that more screen time doesn't necessarily mean that the couple is going to happen, they say it's just because Sakura is a main character that she gets so much time with Naruto.

The truth is, if a writer wishes to include romance in their story, they want the readers to become emotionally invested in the couple. So who is Kishimoto more likely to working toward putting with Naruto: Hinata, who has interacted with Naruto about five times in the whole series, or Sakura, whose steadily growing feelings for Naruto have been shown throughout the series? If Kishi wanted Naruhina to happen, don't you think he would have made a little more effort into making the pairing more realistic and likable?

I've had a theory for a while that many Naruhina fans are weird quiet girls that crush on people they would never have the courage to talk to. They like Naruhina because they can completely relate Hinata's situation. They hate Sakura because not only does she get in the way of that, but she is pretty, sporty, confidant, intelligent, and all the things they envy about "popular" girls in the real world. That "popularity" comment up there just proves my point. Does anyone else also get the feeling that the average Naruhina fan is younger than the average Narusaku fan, mostly because they cannot form a reasonable argument to save their lives?

What these girls (and let's face it, most die-hard Naruhina fans are girls, because most of the guys that actually care who Naruto ends up with to support Naruhina only do so because she has boobs) don't understand is that Kishimoto does not care who girls with glasses, greasy hair and bad acne want Naruto to be with, because they are not actually his target audience. The only fans that Kishi really needs to make sure he keeps are the Japanese boys who the series is intended for and he does so by keeping the action awesome: for the rest of the fans he writes amazing story-lines that people can like or not because he is not going to cater to their wishes.

So in short, Naruhina fans refuse to see that there actually is a logical reason for the couple that gets more screentime to become cannon because they are mainly 14 year-old girls who can relate to Hinata and therefore support Naruhina.

*I hope I didn't offend anyone with this. Trust me, I was an awkward pre-teen girl with glasses, braces and acne at one point in my life. We all go through the stage (unless, of course, you are male and were an awkward pre-teen boy with glasses, braces and acne) and if you are still in it, then what I said above really doesn't apply to you and kudos for supporting a couple for good reasons rather than stupid ones.*

[Miss Soupy]

I dunno, there are a ton of male NH fans :/ and they debate their pairing quite passionately. Though, I'm not exactly sure how Hinata is so appealing to a male stand-point, but somehow she is o.O I think generally people are just very sympathetic with Hinata; there aren't a ton of faults with her, but that is due to lack of character development. I think this is where the 'Hinata is perfect' idea came from, but really that isn't a positive...there just isn't any development there.

[RyrineaHaruno]

I dunno, there are a ton of male NH fans :/ and they debate their pairing quite passionately. Though, I'm not exactly sure how Hinata is so appealing to a male stand-point

Hm I think it has to do the Breast area for some males and some can relate to Hinata as well. But I would think they would be LeeSaku fan thought.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 20 November 2009 - 05:50 AM.

[ciardha]

Hm I think it has to do the Breast area for most males

Big breasts and plus she's submissive with her only thoughts being about Naruto.