19964 replies to this topic

[Don-kun]

I miss the days when the debate thread made you feel internally happy about what you're reading and expand your knowledge on the pairing. Now this place feels so negative on anticlimactic. Sakura, Naruto and Sasuke have some deep freaking flaws and one of them is an arrogant and a jerk, but all the hatred goes to Sakura, why because she so happen to still have feeling for Sasuke. Is almost like what another user in Naruto forums said.

I kind of dislike Sakura because she seems only as a pairing fodder, she have the to development more like Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura has to develop as well, she has to discover that she loves Naruto so she can restore her dignity.

To me this is shallow minded thinking, I may love NaruSaku and hope that they end up together, but to accuse her because she has not being straightforward with her feeling for Naruto is stupid, the one behind all this crap is Kishimoto not Sakura, you need to ask what he find appealing in SS and stop focusing all your hatred on her character.

And the Tsundare argument, each time I read those I cringe the user acts like if Naruto is the first Anime he ever seen or read, 90% of the Shonen manga the main girl is always like this. Bleach Naruto, One Piece, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, Full Metal Alchemist, Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, etc. Some of the lead girls are even worse than Sakura. And if we focus on other Manga and anime that are not Shonen, the lead girls can be worser than the Shonen Manga girls.

In conclusion the negative vibration is a bit hard to digest when I think of the place where we are, yes it's a debating thread but is not a place to concentrate your hatred on Sakura after all this is a place where most of the readers like her with her flaws, we learn to deal with them.

[Codus N]

Ahaha I understand. But think about it, it's also to try understanding where other fandoms are coming from. That's what this thread is all about.

[Transformers03]

Wasn't there a guy who was going to post why he thinks Naruhina will happen, because I still want to read his opinion on it.

[Gravenimage]

Wasn't there a guy who was going to post why he thinks Naruhina will happen, because I still want to read his opinion on it.

Better not read his opinion if he ever post it.

Edited by Gravenimage, 11 July 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[sushi.]

And the Tsundare argument, each time I read those I cringe the user acts like if Naruto is the first Anime he ever seen or read, 90% of the Shonen manga the main girl is always like this. Bleach Naruto, One Piece, Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, Full Metal Alchemist, Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, etc. Some of the lead girls are even worse than Sakura. And if we focus on other Manga and anime that are not Shonen, the lead girls can be worser than the Shonen Manga girls.

This is so off-topic it makes me sick , but Kagome is not a Tsundere. (edit) Unless you mean Sango?

I think the hatred towards Sakura comes from the fact that people don't read between the lines and try to look into her actions. And that they count anime fillers and how they use the Sakura's fists on Naruto too much.
I feel like Naruto is deeper than most manga's I've read, and more complicated. I've heard a lot of people saying "This is a manga, not a romantic Da vinci code". But I dunno, I keep wondering how much thought Kishi spends on writing Naruto.

Edited by sushi., 11 July 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Transformers03]

Better not read his opinion if he ever post it.

Why? If I don't have a better understanding of the other side argument, then that means I will just be ignorant and bias. I will only have one side of the argument, that will be the side I'm already rooting for. I wouldn't be able trust my own judgement cause I wouldn't be able to have the whole picture.

Besides this is something I've been looking for. I want to know why certain fans believe Naruhina will happen FOR SURE. I want to know what kind of proof they have that convinces themselves that it is going to happen, other than the obvious ones (her confession, etc...).

[Codus N]

Better not read his opinion if he ever post it.

And how very mature of you to think that way..... this is the debate thread. Everyone's opinions are welcome. Including opposing fandoms.

[Don-kun]

Well after reading for months, Roja, Iamacloud, Ch1p, Corvida and especially Kurama who I honesly believe is are worse than VJ my appetite for reading NH comments dropped a lot, since 99% of them need to bash NaruSaku, Sakura loves Sasuke, Naruto doesn't loves Sakura, Sakura is a bi**, Sasuke redemption = SS, Sakura's confession, ect, to make an argument.
Most of them don't have real argument to validate the pairing they like, bashing NS is thier everyday meal.
In NF people spend 90% of the time in the ANS and 10% looking at fan arts for the pairing they like.

Lets se if your friend makes a difference.

[Codus N]

He just sent me his post to edit so that nothing gets lost in translation as his English isn't that good. But it's freaking 1 am over here, so I'm dead tired. We'll get back to you in 12 hours or so.

[Dalton.T.R]

Well after reading for months, Roja, Iamacloud, Ch1p, Corvida and especially Kurama who I honesly believe is are worse than VJ my appetite for reading NH comments dropped a lot, since 99% of them need to bash NaruSaku, Sakura loves Sasuke, Naruto doesn't loves Sakura, Sakura is a bi**, Sasuke redemption = SS, Sakura's confession, ect, to make an argument.
Most of them don't have real argument to validate the pairing they like, bashing NS is thier everyday meal.
In NF people spend 90% of the time in the ANS and 10% looking at fan arts for the pairing they like.

Lets se if your friend makes a difference.

That's pretty much all of their arguments right there.

Recently I read a post on Youtube. This guy actually made the NH fans shut up for a while.

"The only b*ch in the serise is Hinata because all she ever thinks about is Naruto! Did she bother to help the dying and wonded shinobi around her? NO! She was more concerned about her love life than the wounded in need of her! She's selfish! If Sakura's a b*tch that only makes Hinata ten times worse! CASE CLOSED!"

That's what he wrote. Got a lot of thumbs up and even made top coment on the video with all the NH fans crawling around the video. And it's true. There's nothing but truth in his post. How can the NH fans call Sakura a female dog when she helped the villagers and saved the little girl from pein's ...uhm...clone. she's far from anything considered an insult to a female.

Sorry for the bashing, but it's truth.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

That's pretty much all of their arguments right there.

Recently I read a post on Youtube. This guy actually made the NH fans shut up for a while.

"The only b*ch in the serise is Hinata because all she ever thinks about is Naruto! Did she bother to help the dying and wonded shinobi around her? NO! She was more concerned about her love life than the wounded in need of her! She's selfish! If Sakura's a b*tch that only makes Hinata ten times worse! CASE CLOSED!"

That's what he wrote. Got a lot of thumbs up and even made top coment on the video with all the NH fans crawling around the video. And it's true. There's nothing but truth in his post. How can the NH fans call Sakura a female dog when she helped the villagers and saved the little girl from pein's ...uhm...clone. she's far from anything considered an insult to a female.

Sorry for the bashing, but it's truth.

It's not the truth, she did help the wounded too, the fact is they hate sakura for being the main heroine and not hinata.
I dont know what's worse NH fandom that comes into NS videos and made stupid comments or NS people that goes to NH videos and post stupidities, if they ship their fandom just leave then as it be.
This totally unnecessary and stupid if they think that their fandom will be likely happen let they with their thoughts and move trying to argue with people that already made their mind is stupid.

Just accept their differences it's not fun if everyone think on the same way we live in a democracy they are free to think what they want, post one or two rants will not make then change their mind or something else.
and u should already noticed almost every fact that happened on naruto at least has one two or three different interpretations.


I'm just going to say why i ship NS.

Naruto since when Sakura shows up he say that he loves her, and stated it dozen and dozen of times, and this was one of his objectives (win her hearth)[take sasuke's place] i dont think for a main character of a shounen to be reasonable he give up one of his objectives for no reason.
Naruto already said that he loves sakura.

Edited by dovahkiin, 11 July 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[TerrorKing]

You can disagree all you want, man. But I defy you to show me a relationship that looks and sounds like the one between Naruto and Sakura occurring in the real world that does not end in abuse and heartbreak. Things do not happen this way in the real world. And if you ever found yourself in a relationship with a girl like that,a girl who yells at you, chastises you, and takes it upon herself to "keep you in line" until she decides it's time to be sweet and caring with you, you would see it through very different eyes. For the sake of comedy, in a fictional world, that may be fine. Not in the real world. Things aren't so forgiving in reality. I've dated a girl like that before, and "interesting" was the last word from my mind.

Before you start indulging in the fantasy and saying how wrong I am, I seriously want you to consider it. I don't care if you take this as Sakura bashing or not. It isn't. Seriously consider it. Consider dating a girl who calls you an idiot, yells at you, and feels the constant need to condescendingly play the "mature adult." Consider dating a girl who has a tendency of treating you like an embarrassment, and fawns after "cool" guys in spite of you. And when you've had just about enough of that, consider that girl reeling you back in by being sweet and caring for a while. Yeah, it may be funny in anime. It's not funny in real life. Trust me.

That is why Sakura is largely unpopular in America and other parts of the western world. Because in our culture, such a thing is not appealing. Because we know girls like that really do exist, and no man wants to put up with it. Not unless he's a total sycophant.

I am not Sakura bashing. I'm just telling you how this sort of thing translates into reality.

If that seriously how you see NS, then I'm afraid you've misunderstood something.

Consider the following:

- Sakura is no longer someone who "fawns after cool guys". She has long since outgrown that. It is true that she still has feelings for Sasuke, but so far, those feelings have only shown in a negative light.
- Sakura has acknowledged that Naruto can handle himself and that he really has matured
- Sakura has never fluctuated between evil and sweet the way you just described. Sakura's relationship with Naruto is completely gradual. She went from hating his guts, to now acknowledging him as someone who can take on any challenge at any time.

I'm not saying that NS does not have it faults. It does. While many of problems can indeed be attributed to Sakura's, like her inability to fully let go of her feelings for Sasuke, Naruto is also partly to blame.

I'm not bashing or anything. I'm just trying to maybe give you a new perspective on things.

[merryGOflava]

Don't bother debating with Pachuco it's not worth it. The guy takes fictional pairing way too seriously I suggest you leave him be. Or you can add him to your ignore list.

isnt it rude to say this type of thing out loud.

if you want to tell him a person isnt worth a debate then PM him that info.

but saying out loud that a person isnt worth their time is just asking for that very person to flame back.

or worse, you might hurt their feelings.

[Gravenimage]

I wasn't bashing but yeah I was being rude for that I'm sorry. Now let's stay on topic how about if we guess the chapter when Naruto and Sakura will finally reunite? (aside from the one when he saved her from the Zetsu clones).

Edited by Gravenimage, 11 July 2012 - 11:17 PM.

[merryGOflava]

I wasn't bashing but yeah I was being rude for that I'm sorry. Now let's stay on topic how about if we guess the chapter when Naruto and Sakura will finally reunite? (aside from the one when he saved her from the Zetsu clones.

no prob i just hate to see figthing


and hopefully soon!! T^T since we finally got done with this sasuke thing....maybe within the next 5 chapters!?

[PachucoDesigns]

What the hell is wrong with you people? The only thing I'm trying to tell you is why Sakura and NS are largely not popular in America. The idea of the fiction is not appealing unless it is in some way compatible with the idea of the reality. That's all. I swear, every time I speak here, you have to make it personally about me. It isn't.


And what I'm talking about has nothing to do with the way she treated him in general in the beginning to the way she treats him in general now. What I'm talking about are the ideas that are taken for comedy in every episode paired with her sweet, heartfelt realizations that often occur in the same episode. Yes, I know it's there for comedy. Yes, I'm sure it doesn't represent how she actually feels. But if you have actually been around somebody who turns on an emotional dime that frequently, you will know why watching it is not appealing.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 11 July 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[sushi.]

What the hell is wrong with you people? The only thing I'm trying to tell you is why Sakura and NS are largely not popular in America. The idea of the fiction is not appealing unless it is in some way compatible with the idea of the reality. That's all. I swear, every time I speak here, you have to make it personally about me. It isn't.

I somewhat agree with you. Sakura is not talking about Naruto in a negative way, she is teasing him. But about the punches, I would agree. And it seems a woman can hit a man but a man can not hit a woman in Naruto. And the real world to, js. I would like NaruSaku irl, but sometimes they're pushing the Tsundere-factor too far. That's more like in movies and Omake's though. About the rest, she is not fawning over Sasuke anymore, she respects Naruto and thinks of him highly. And she is not changing her temper like "being sweet and caring, then changing to a dinosaur". She has a hot temper, but her anger only lasts for like a sec. After the punch, she's normal again

[TerrorKing]

What the hell is wrong with you people? The only thing I'm trying to tell you is why Sakura and NS are largely not popular in America. The idea of the fiction is not appealing unless it is in some way compatible with the idea of the reality. That's all. I swear, every time I speak here, you have to make it personally about me. It isn't.

It is to me.

Still, I wasn't trying to attack you personally dude. I was just telling you that NS is not as bad as you made it out to be in your post. If I have somehow misunderstood your intention, then sorry about that.

[PachucoDesigns]

I somewhat agree with you. Sakura is not talking about Naruto in a negative way, she is teasing him. But about the punches, I would agree. And it seems a woman can hit a man but a man can not hit a woman in Naruto. And the real world to, js. I would like NaruSaku irl, but sometimes they're pushing the Tsundere-factor too far. That's more like in movies and Omake's though. About the rest, she is not fawning over Sasuke anymore, she respects Naruto and thinks of him highly. And she is not changing her temper like "being sweet and caring, then changing to a dinosaur". She has a hot temper, but her anger only lasts for like a sec. After the punch, she's normal again

And that is exactly what I'm talking about! That's the kind of thing that is not appealing to most men in reality, and that's why seeing it play out on the screen isn't appealing, either. How is this so hard to grasp?

[Verilance]

it seems a woman can hit a man but a man can not hit a woman in Naruto. And the real world to, js. I would like NaruSaku irl, but sometimes they're pushing the Tsundere-factor too far.

I hate to belabour the point but, it is a cultural thing whether or not we like it, it will always happen in manga. The worst part about the negative reaction of some fans is Naruto is tame compared with other manga.

eg Winry in Full Metal Alchemist

Kaori in City Hunter

I have read Shoujo manga where this is also the case, the girlfriend "hits" her boyfriend to "correct" what she finds as unbecoming behaviour.

If people are to read and enjoy Japanese manga they really have to take into account the stories are written for a Japanese audience and abide by the cultural norms of Japan.