4869 replies to this topic

[James S Cassidy]

It's odd how the other pairing fans will use some kind of excuse against NaruSaku whether logical or not, but if a NaruSaku fans such as ourselves use that same logic against their couple we are the ones making lies or the "situation is completely different just because it is Hinata/Sasuke." It could be the same exact moment, but they base their evidence solely on who says it. Not what happens.

As for Sasuke, it is not that he is incapable of love/friendship as he did say that Naruto was his closest friend next to Itachi, it is that he is not looking for love. Could he love Karin? Yes, but he is not something he is looking for now.

Also I have to add this. Someone once told me "Hinata will be with Naruto because she loves him." I replied "really? Then does that mean Sakura will be with Naruto cause he loves her?" They reply "That is completely different." I ask them to elaborate, but they could not give me a straight answer saying mostly that "Sakura doesn't like Naruto like that." To which I replied, "Well, what if Naruto doesn't like Hinata like that? Is he just going to be with Hinata cause he feels bad for her?" Argument goes on. I even once asked later down the same conversation "and what about Karin. She loves Sasuke so why can't she have Sasuke? How come Hinata deserves to be with Naruto, but Sakura doesn't? Why does Sakura deserve to be with Sasuke, but Karin doesn't?"

I am tired of these people thinking that a "one-sided relationship" automatically means they have to be with them. I always bring up the fact that they care more about Hinata's feelings and not even paying attention to Naruto's. While Naruto himsel, as well as Kishimoto, has said that Naruto loves Sakura and sees Hinata only as a friend.

I have to admire them though. They do stick by their beliefs and you have to respect that even if you don't agree.

[Miss Soupy]

There is a lot of biases, but that goes for all sides. We all interpret the manga differently based on what our experiences have been and what we want most out of the story. All fans are more likely to interpret the manga in a way that favors what they support. Eventually, once all the what ifs and speculation is argued out, it comes down to what is the most plausible. And even those who do not favor NS in any way can admit NS is the most plausible because it has received the most attention. This idea doesn't mean kishi can't make whatever pairing he wants, but given what we see happening, our best judgment should go in support of what receives the most development.

[James S Cassidy]

I just hope Kishomoto doesn't just do something without reason. I hate it when some manga artist do that and some have done that. They change their story on the turn of a dime with no reason at all and it just confuses me.

I do have a higher respect for Kishi that whatever he chooses he would have good reason to. I just hope he doesn't let me down

[Merger Knight]

It's odd how the other pairing fans will use some kind of excuse against NaruSaku whether logical or not, but if a NaruSaku fans such as ourselves use that same logic against their couple we are the ones making lies or the "situation is completely different just because it is Hinata/Sasuke." It could be the same exact moment, but they base their evidence solely on who says it. Not what happens.

As for Sasuke, it is not that he is incapable of love/friendship as he did say that Naruto was his closest friend next to Itachi, it is that he is not looking for love. Could he love Karin? Yes, but he is not something he is looking for now.

Also I have to add this. Someone once told me "Hinata will be with Naruto because she loves him." I replied "really? Then does that mean Sakura will be with Naruto cause he loves her?" They reply "That is completely different." I ask them to elaborate, but they could not give me a straight answer saying mostly that "Sakura doesn't like Naruto like that." To which I replied, "Well, what if Naruto doesn't like Hinata like that? Is he just going to be with Hinata cause he feels bad for her?" Argument goes on. I even once asked later down the same conversation "and what about Karin. She loves Sasuke so why can't she have Sasuke? How come Hinata deserves to be with Naruto, but Sakura doesn't? Why does Sakura deserve to be with Sasuke, but Karin doesn't?"

I am tired of these people thinking that a "one-sided relationship" automatically means they have to be with them. I always bring up the fact that they care more about Hinata's feelings and not even paying attention to Naruto's. While Naruto himsel, as well as Kishimoto, has said that Naruto loves Sakura and sees Hinata only as a friend.

I have to admire them though. They do stick by their beliefs and you have to respect that even if you don't agree.

sometimes the less likely the couple is the more vocal their suporters are

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You know, I've wondered if besides Naruto assuming Sakura still loves Sasuke if he just assumes she hates him like she blurted out when they were kids?? Anyone think of that possible theory besides just how Sakura's "confession" came off as?? I mean, it'd make SOME sense perhaps that he thinks that way.

Bryon

[Lazy-Genius]

You know, I've wondered if besides Naruto assuming Sakura still loves Sasuke if he just assumes she hates him like she blurted out when they were kids?? Anyone think of that possible theory besides just how Sakura's "confession" came off as?? I mean, it'd make SOME sense perhaps that he thinks that way.

Bryon

I don't think Naruto's that dense. I don't even think she's made any "hateful" comments to him since before the wave mission, so I highly doubt he thinks she hates him.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I don't think Naruto's that dense. I don't even think she's made any "hateful" comments to him since before the wave mission, so I highly doubt he thinks she hates him.

Just was a crazy theory I had. But he sure seems to think Sakura's still in love with Sasuke, when he's also seen how concerned she's been for him. ANd that does take something of a degree of denseness to assume she still loves Sasuke, when her feelings for him have become something more platonic.

Bryon

[Merger Knight]

Naruto may be one of the strongest charcters in the series but no one will ever consider him one of the smartest lol

[Froot]

(There's a lot on my mind, so please bear with me )

That's an interesting point you bring up. Naruto was there when Sakura said she hated him; I'm almost positive with all the things she's done and said to him (while he was around or conscious,) he had to have been able to see that she cared for him. Though, I'm thinking, even if Naruto DOES know she doesn't hate him, maybe he thinks she still sees him in a bad light, or at least one dimmer than Sasuke's? It could be part of the reason he denied what Sakura said to him when she confessed - That, and his whole ''I can't keep my promises'' is obvious.

*Also, I've got a question; In the official Japanese - English translation, does Naruto call Hinata ''Hinata-chan?'' Because I've seen it before in various places and am unsure.

Byron brings up another point that proves the validity of Sakura's confession, somewhat. Sakura stated aloud that she knows Sasuke hates her in Part I. Then why would she continue to pursue him? She's a smart girl, she knows better. It astounds me that AntiNS fans are calling Sakura shallow and stupid for realizing that Sasuke is a criminal who hates her and taking actions to move on from him. It seems like the intelligent thing to do. Do they want her to be a self-destructive, shallow, Sasuke-obsessed drone?

Apparently so, since that's basically what SasuSaku is based on anyways

So, using that information, I'd say Sakura gave up on romantic pursuit of Sasuke after she asked him why he hated her, and began the ''Team 7'' pursuit right after she asked why he hated her then started talking about Team 7.

One last thing; In ch. 437 (Was that it?) the cover page was Hinata sitting on the road (Or in the gutter or something - I don't know) with Naruto walking by, and now NH fans are claiming that since Kishi drew NH it's guaranteed to be canon. I argue that it was HINANaru since Naruto wasn't even aware of her presence, but it still bugs me. What's your take on it?

[James S Cassidy]

Naruto is not the smartest, but he is smarter than he was before. Naruto might be stupid at times, but he is not oblivious to it. Naruto is also human and he is not perfect.

I wonder if what Naruto said in chapter 469/470 was a lie itself. Yes I am probably the last person to pick this up, but bare with me for I am slow

Has someone ever lied to someone to protect them? Some claim that Sakura was lying to Naruto about her feelings to protect him, but I wonder if Naruto was lying to Sakura to protect her?

Remember Kakashi stopped Naruto from telling them about Madara and Sasuke. So both Sakura an Naruto are keeping things from each other to the point of lying to each other.

I can just see Naruto and Sakura both thinking "I'm Sorry. I love you, but I must do this to protect you. I don't want you to get hurt." When I re-read the chapters of 469/470 and thought about it in this context it made the most sense to me.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 November 2009 - 03:54 AM.

[Froot]

^ Great theory. Makes the most sense out of any I've heard

I forgot that, yes, Naruto WAS about to tell her about Sasuke. But like you said, Kakashi stopped her. Why? No idea. But Naruto obviously agreed, because if he didn't, he would have said it anyway.

Another thing I find interesting is that they were both going to talk about Sasuke causing trouble Sasuke's obviously the common denominator. Once's he's finally adressed, things will fall into place.

[Miss Soupy]

(There's a lot on my mind, so please bear with me )

That's an interesting point you bring up. Naruto was there when Sakura said she hated him; I'm almost positive with all the things she's done and said to him (while he was around or conscious,) he had to have been able to see that she cared for him. Though, I'm thinking, even if Naruto DOES know she doesn't hate him, maybe he thinks she still sees him in a bad light, or at least one dimmer than Sasuke's? It could be part of the reason he denied what Sakura said to him when she confessed - That, and his whole ''I can't keep my promises'' is obvious.

I think Naruto does assume Sakura thinks more of Sasuke than of him, though according to her recent actions this isn't the case at all. Naruto knows by now that Sakura does not hate him, however.

*Also, I've got a question; In the official Japanese - English translation, does Naruto call Hinata ''Hinata-chan?'' Because I've seen it before in various places and am unsure.

I'm pretty sure Naruto does use -chan. But I can't read japanese so I can't be 100% on it.

Byron brings up another point that proves the validity of Sakura's confession, somewhat. Sakura stated aloud that she knows Sasuke hates her in Part I. Then why would she continue to pursue him? She's a smart girl, she knows better. It astounds me that AntiNS fans are calling Sakura shallow and stupid for realizing that Sasuke is a criminal who hates her and taking actions to move on from him. It seems like the intelligent thing to do. Do they want her to be a self-destructive, shallow, Sasuke-obsessed drone?

Apparently so, since that's basically what SasuSaku is based on anyways

So, using that information, I'd say Sakura gave up on romantic pursuit of Sasuke after she asked him why he hated her, and began the ''Team 7'' pursuit right after she asked why he hated her then started talking about Team 7.

The thing they argue is that there wasn't enough proof that she had given up loving him. I can kind of understand why they believe this because Sakura and Naruto have always been involved in actively trying to get him back, perhaps Sakura didn't have time to reconsider her feelings. One NH fan I debate with maintains that Sakura didn't falter on her feelings for Sasuke until her moment with Karui. I don't believe this to be the case and instead think she had doubts a couple of times between seeing Sasuke again and the Karui talk. A scene that comes to mind is when Sakura is sitting on her bed looking at a picture of team 7. A tear rolls down her cheek and then we see panels of the starry night sky and a star positioned where her tear was falls directly downward. Seemed highly symbolic to me that Sakura is starting to realize team 7 may not ever be whole again.

But I do agree that giving up on Sasuke by no means makes Sakura shallow. I think they say that because that is how they want to view Sakura.

One last thing; In ch. 437 (Was that it?) the cover page was Hinata sitting on the road (Or in the gutter or something - I don't know) with Naruto walking by, and now NH fans are claiming that since Kishi drew NH it's guaranteed to be canon. I argue that it was HINANaru since Naruto wasn't even aware of her presence, but it still bugs me. What's your take on it?

I think there is a cover page with Hinata and a building in the background that they say is the same building in that early Hinata sketch with Naruto. They seem to think it's a church which means NH is meant to be. Ugh. It is just fandom speculation.

[James S Cassidy]

I think there is a cover page with Hinata and a building in the background that they say is the same building in that early Hinata sketch with Naruto. They seem to think it's a church which means NH is meant to be. Ugh. It is just fandom speculation.

*cough cough*

Chapter opening to "Confession --Click here to view--

Though to be honest, and yes I am stating the obvious, I don't see a church in the picture....I see trees.....I also see Shino's sleeve, at least I think it is. Maybe she ends up with Shino?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 November 2009 - 04:53 AM.

[Froot]

I think Naruto does assume Sakura thinks more of Sasuke than of him, though according to her recent actions this isn't the case at all. Naruto knows by now that Sakura does not hate him, however.

Okay. I'd hope so
He obviously still thinks of Sakura as the 12 year old girl obsessed over Sasuke, according to his flashbacks. He doesn't believe that Sakura could ever love him. I don't blame him though; Half the Naruto fandom doesn't either

I'm pretty sure Naruto does use -chan. But I can't read japanese so I can't be 100% on it.

If so, I'm a bit bothered... Hm. Then again, biased translations ARE possible, as we've seen before

The thing they argue is that there wasn't enough proof that she had given up loving him. I can kind of understand why they believe this because Sakura and Naruto have always been involved in actively trying to get him back, perhaps Sakura didn't have time to reconsider her feelings. One NH fan I debate with maintains that Sakura didn't falter on her feelings for Sasuke until her moment with Karui. I don't believe this to be the case and instead think she had doubts a couple of times between seeing Sasuke again and the Karui talk. A scene that comes to mind is when Sakura is sitting on her bed looking at a picture of team 7. A tear rolls down her cheek and then we see panels of the starry night sky and a star positioned where her tear was falls directly downward. Seemed highly symbolic to me that Sakura is starting to realize team 7 may not ever be whole again.

Beautiful scene Loved how the tear represented the star streaking across the sky that Naruto wished on I'm thinking it means he was contemplating the PoaL.

But I do agree that giving up on Sasuke by no means makes Sakura shallow. I think they say that because that is how they want to view Sakura.

Yes. Because god forbid she gains her own independence and strays away from her precious precious Sasuke-kun

I think there is a cover page with Hinata and a building in the background that they say is the same building in that early Hinata sketch with Naruto. They seem to think it's a church which means NH is meant to be. Ugh. It is just fandom speculation.

Yikes. Obsess much?

Though I think if Kishi wanted to do NH, he'd do it more in the manga, and not just the cover page :/

Maybe he did it for nostalgia's sake. Or to show how far she's come.

Is it even the same building? What about coincidence?

I analyzed another picture of Hinata with a landscape behind her. (Vol. 24, ch. 209) I thought I saw Naruto's house in the background. But upon further speculation, using all the images I had of Naruto's house (And that's a lot, since I collect the manga and have vol. 1-41 plus Shonen Jump) I was able to discern that it was NOT his house. First of all, he has a railed balcony; No balcony in the picture. Second, the house shown in Hinata's picture had squared edges, whereas Naruto's is circular. The architectural differences are obvious. So there goes thec''Kishi puts hints in Hinata's pictures'' theory. Honestly, they're looking too hard.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Byron brings up another point that proves the validity of Sakura's confession, somewhat. Sakura stated aloud that she knows Sasuke hates her in Part I. Then why would she continue to pursue him? She's a smart girl, she knows better. It astounds me that AntiNS fans are calling Sakura shallow and stupid for realizing that Sasuke is a criminal who hates her and taking actions to move on from him. It seems like the intelligent thing to do. Do they want her to be a self-destructive, shallow, Sasuke-obsessed drone?

I know I wouldn't want Sakura to still be shallow. And in spite of how she may feel about the boys, we've seen her want to take Sasuke down to stop his tirade (of sorts) in the first meeting of Team Seven's in Shippuden, plus we've also seen her get her heart broken too many times by Sasuke, in spite of her knowing she was hated by him. So you got to wonder if there's another reason to she wants to bring him back to the Leaf.

I was thinking too about how she felt when it came to finding out Naruto failed. We saw her visibly devastated, but I think all that slightly changed because of seeing how badly hurt Naruto was. You gotta wonder how that changed her perception of Sasuke besides what he was going to do, since she had to have seen slowly that Sasuke wasn't the boy she'd fallen in love with.

And thanks, Froot.

Bryon

[Froot]

I know I wouldn't want Sakura to still be shallow. And in spite of how she may feel about the boys, we've seen her want to take Sasuke down to stop his tirade (of sorts) in the first meeting of Team Seven's in Shippuden, plus we've also seen her get her heart broken too many times by Sasuke, in spite of her knowing she was hated by him. So you got to wonder if there's another reason to she wants to bring him back to the Leaf.

I was thinking too about how she felt when it came to finding out Naruto failed. We saw her visibly devastated, but I think all that slightly changed because of seeing how badly hurt Naruto was. You gotta wonder how that changed her perception of Sasuke besides what he was going to do, since she had to have seen slowly that Sasuke wasn't the boy she'd fallen in love with.

And thanks, Froot.

Bryon

Of course



I totally forgot about that. Sakura was obviously disturbed by Naruto's appearance, but she blew it off by saying ''you're always pushing yourself too far.'' Does this tell you that she thinks Naruto caused his state? Kishi didn't go into much detail about that, so neither will I.

She is now aware of how evil Sasuke's become, with or without the information Madara gave to Naruto. If she finds out, it will havd been the straw that broke the camel's back.

People are probably hating so much because Sakura's gained a mind of her own. They counted on her to ''love'' Sasuke no matter what he did. And, uh-oh, she realized he's no good for her, so she's a TRAITOR!

[Jenskott]

So... in a nutshell, the claimed they hated her because she hated and tortured (HAH!) Naruto and loved Sasuke, and now they hate her because she loves Naruto and want protecting him from Sasuke.

They are proving their reasons for hating and bashing Sakura were lies and excuses. How nice.

And yes, I find very funny Sakura is being bashed for using her common sense. Come on! Did they expect she clung to Sasuke in spite of all what he has done? Of course, those are the same people thinks Naruto is dumb for loving Sakura after all what she has done (HAH!) and wishes he moves on Hinata.

I'd bet the real reason is they hoped she was still in love with Sasuke, not matter what he did, since then Naruto would be forced to giving up on her -and supposedly loving Hinata-. NaruHina only might become canon through SasuSaku. And now Sakura has all but slain -drawn, quartered and scorched- SasuSaku. Sasuke never loved her, got chummy with other people and another girl, and she has fallen out of love with him. She has ruined NH's last chance for becoming canon.

And they can't take it.

Of course, my hypotesis hinges on my interpretation of her confession being right.

[Froot]

Well, Jenskott, regardless of whether or not she really WAS telling the truth about moving on from Sasuke and wanting to abandon him, she's the one who suggested it, so she's obviously entertaining the idea. No matter what she feels, she is the one who suggested that they forget Sasuke. That says a LOT.

So, yes, Sakura totally destroyed SasuSaku.

Edited by Froot, 19 November 2009 - 01:15 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

Okay. I'd hope so
He obviously still thinks of Sakura as the 12 year old girl obsessed over Sasuke, according to his flashbacks. He doesn't believe that Sakura could ever love him. I don't blame him though; Half the Naruto fandom doesn't either

Naruto probably compares her love for Sasuke with his love for her. The major difference though is Naruto fell in love with Sakura for good, pure reasons but Sakura fell in love with Sasuke (at first) for the wrong reasons.

If so, I'm a bit bothered... Hm. Then again, biased translations ARE possible, as we've seen before

I wouldn't worry about that. Naruto has only said Hinata's name a few times, tops. I bet he didn't refer to her as Hinata-chan before part II. Think about Sai's relationship book. It said to drop the suffix to show closeness. We know Naruto is close to Sakura but he retains the suffix most likely to show closeness, tradition, and because he likes her. However, Naruto is not close to Hinata, so he uses -chan because he likes her, but is not familiar with her.

...well it makes sense in my mind

Beautiful scene Loved how the tear represented the star streaking across the sky that Naruto wished on I'm thinking it means he was contemplating the PoaL.

I think the scene was good for contrasting the difference between Naruto and Sakura. Where Sakura was doubting, Naruto was training hard and being optimistic. Who has a better grasp of reality?

Yikes. Obsess much?

Though I think if Kishi wanted to do NH, he'd do it more in the manga, and not just the cover page :/

Maybe he did it for nostalgia's sake. Or to show how far she's come.

Is it even the same building? What about coincidence?

I analyzed another picture of Hinata with a landscape behind her. (Vol. 24, ch. 209) I thought I saw Naruto's house in the background. But upon further speculation, using all the images I had of Naruto's house (And that's a lot, since I collect the manga and have vol. 1-41 plus Shonen Jump) I was able to discern that it was NOT his house. First of all, he has a railed balcony; No balcony in the picture. Second, the house shown in Hinata's picture had squared edges, whereas Naruto's is circular. The architectural differences are obvious. So there goes thec''Kishi puts hints in Hinata's pictures'' theory. Honestly, they're looking too hard.

Well if you look at it from a Hinata fans point of view, any page Kishi actually draws Hinata is going to be scrutinized. Because Hinata is not in the story much, every little panel she is in is weighed heavier in their mind. This right away makes them biased towards how much Hinata's scenes impact the manga; while they view it impacts it a lot because they like the scene a lot themselves, this is probably not the case.

The chapter covers mean very little.

[ciardha]

I analyzed another picture of Hinata with a landscape behind her. (Vol. 24, ch. 209) I thought I saw Naruto's house in the background. But upon further speculation, using all the images I had of Naruto's house (And that's a lot, since I collect the manga and have vol. 1-41 plus Shonen Jump) I was able to discern that it was NOT his house. First of all, he has a railed balcony; No balcony in the picture. Second, the house shown in Hinata's picture had squared edges, whereas Naruto's is circular. The architectural differences are obvious. So there goes thec''Kishi puts hints in Hinata's pictures'' theory. Honestly, they're looking too hard.

I also laugh at the "church" image. There's no Christianity in Naruto's world, thus no churches. The "religions" and religious references we've seen in Naruto is Hidan's monsterously evil monotheistic Jashin, Konoha's "Will of Fire"- which has a very vaguely Shinto like characteristic, the monks Hidan killed dressed like Buddhist monks and the temple Deidara met the Akatsuki in had statues of Buddhist religious figures like Fudo, Taoist references, and Shinto kami references.

Edited by ciardha, 19 November 2009 - 04:07 PM.