4036 replies to this topic

[Liu bie]

This cheered me up     

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Question why there are not fan boys?

[Khaleesi]

No its not only when the user is there again look at my example .  The Rinengan eye was focused when he put her in it  besides he did the same with the Bijuu's the IT is cast by the Rinengan also  Sasuke's  Rinengan also has that power and he also has the power to disrupt it as the Sage said   if I had to guess Sakura is in IT cast by Sasuke or just a regular Tsukuyomi .    

Give me an example where a sharingan's user cast a genjutsu in some else and then goes away, but the genjutsu is still working? Izanami is the only one confirmed.

That's not IT. Kurama was even talking when Sasuke did that. That's why Sasuke needed to put them in that Rinnengan jutsu, whose name i don't remember.

[ns.Believe.It]

Question why there are not fan boys?

Eh? You have to ask the artist

 

What's more important is that Its so hilarious 

[FireFox]

Give me an example where a sharingan's user cast a genjutsu in some else and then goes away, but the genjutsu is still working? Izanami is the only one confirmed.

That's not IT. Kurama was even talking when Sasuke did that. That's why Sasuke needed to put them in that Rinnengan jutsu, whose name i don't remember.

But that's the point it wasn't a sharing genjutsu  if it was a Sharingan then that would have been focused  but instead it was the Rinengan , And I din't said its IT with the Bijuu's but that is still a Genjutsu  which come from the Rinengan as well as the IT that is cast upon the shinobis which you said that it wasn't possible  for Rinengan to perform a Genjutsu   this proves my point  that it is .  My whole point was  that the Rinengan can perform Genjutsu as well as IT we have canon proof of it  besides Naruto confirmed that Sakura is still under a genjutsu  as for what kind we don't know but it could be an IT one . 

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 27 September 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[JG111580]

I read this chapter 2 days ago and it still bugs me. This is a repeat of Sauske leaving the village and POAL. It just reiterates it. It's as though the development of NaruSaku in part 2 might as well not have happened. It's infuriating. If we're still in a stage where Sakura is in such state of denial based on a single conversation with a disguised Naruto three years ago... just what the hell? That was the only time in Sakura's relationship with Sauske that he showed anything more than friendship and it wasn't even him. It was Naruto. It would have been nice if Sakura would have flashed back to Naruto saying that they would both die. But noooo, it's all about Sauske. My only hope is that while Kakashi and Sakura are waiting for the conclusion of the battle, Sakura somehow realizes that Naruto is the one that she truly loves. She has since the very beginning, and it would have been resolved years ago if not for the darn bench scene where Sakura imprinted true love on Sauske (Naruto). Either Kakashi was watching his team covertly to get to know them and saw what Naruto did or she figures it out. For crying out loud, we're in the home stretch. It's time for Kishimoto to choose an ending and stick to his guns. If Naruto and Sakura were meant to be together since the beginning, which I believe they were, it's time to make it happen. I want clarity from Sakura before the end of this battle. When they return, or when she reaches them, Naruto had better be the one she rushes to and not Sauske. Sauske had better be redeemed and Naruto had better finally tell Sakura how he feels. If it goes another direction, I just won't be as satisfied with the story of Naruto as I could have been. I mean, what kind of example does that set for younger readers? The nice guy who works hard and fights the good fight gets the shaft in favor of one of the biggest jerks in the history of manga. The girl loves the bad boy and sticks with it long enough that he becomes good. What kind of message is that? ............................. Sorry for venting, but I'm just so frustrated. I might need to stop reading for a few weeks and let this fight play out.   

[ultranx]

oh lord grow up people, the development is not thrown away, and yes the rinnegan was the whole reason the infinite tsukiyomi could even be done, just needed the tailed beasts' chakra to power it, and sasuke did use a rinnegan genjutsu on her, therefore it being a limited tsukiyomi like road to ninja is even more likely and pretty much makes my theory even more likely.

[Khaleesi]

But that's the point it wasn't a sharing genjutsu  if it was a Sharingan then that would have been focused  but instead it was the Rinengan , And I din't said its IT with the Bijuu's but that is still a Genjutsu  which come from the Rinengan as well as the IT that is cast upon the shinobis which you said that it wasn't possible  for Rinengan to perform a Genjutsu   this proves my point  that it is .  My whole point was  that the Rinengan can perform Genjutsu as well as IT we have canon proof of it  besides Naruto confirmed that Sakura is still under a genjutsu  as for what kind we don't know but it could be an IT one . 

I thought it was just for recreating that scene. He always turns that way before saying she's annoying. And don't you remember Sharingan doesn't need to make eye contact?

I believe that Rinnengan increases the power of Sharingan, not that it can cast one from itself. Nagato couldn't do it. That's why Madara needed both, Sharingan and Rinnegan. 

Naruto pointed that Sasuke casted a genjutsu on her, not that she currently is in one. Sakura just fainted after her speach, what else could it be if not a genjutsu?

Edited by theunburnt, 27 September 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[sushi.]

I hate how Sakura is being treated. :(

 

Sasuke just pulled a quite powerful attack on her you know, Naruto could've been a little bit angrier than "wth sasuke that wasn't necessary!". She is literally tossed around as the lovesick thirdwheel and she assits the guys with her skills whenever she needs it, then she is trashed off when they want to keep on with their boylove.

 

ok i know i'm late but i'm busy

Edited by sushi., 27 September 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[merryGOflava]

so what was heck was the point of this then?

 

like seriously!? I thought Sakura was at the point of not trusting Sasuke! Why is she acting like this now!?

[ultranx]

I thought it was just for recreating that scene. He always turns that way before saying she's annoying. And don't you remember Sharingan doesn't need to make eye contact?

I believe that Rinnengan increases the power of Sharingan, not that it can cast one from itself. Nagato couldn't do it. That's why Madara needed both, Sharingan and Rinnegan. 

Naruto pointed that Sasuke casted a genjutsu on her, not that she currently is in one. Sakura just fainted after her speach, what else could it be if not a genjutsu?

rinnegan is not a sharingan power up, it is a doujutsu combined of the sharingan and byakugan but on a whole other lvl of power, or are you telling me nagato would have had all his six paths abilities and tensei moves with the sharingan? no, just no, someone hasn't been paying attention.....the whole reason all those 6 paths abilities are even possible is because of the rinnegan, naruto doesn't even have those abilities, he just has some abilities from the sage's chakra and the chakra of the tailed beasts, but they're still different abilities, he doesn't have all of the ones sasuke has, otherwise what would be the whole point of the ashura reincarnation thing? naruto doesn't have all the power sasuke does. it would defeat the purpose if so.

 

 

merryGOflava: so what was heck was the point of this then?

 

 

 

like seriously!? I thought Sakura was at the point of not trusting Sasuke! Why is she acting like this now!?

 

 

my answer: because she doesn't realize how she actually feels, it just looks like she does, the limited tsukiyomi genjutsu will change that. foreshadowing is what it is, this chapter doesn't mean its all over and done with its just a single chapter.....

 

sorry couldn't seem to get the quote to go in when i was editing my comment.

Edited by ultranx, 27 September 2014 - 07:49 PM.

[Uzumaki9000]

God I wish LadyGT was the creator of the Naruto franchise. Her romance subplots are a million times better than Kishi's. 

 

Seriously, Sakura really needs a psychiatrist... including Hinata and Karin.  

Edited by Uzumaki9000, 27 September 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[六道仙人]

I hate how Sakura is being treated. :(

 

Sasuke just pulled a quite powerful attack on her you know, Naruto could've been a little bit angrier than "wth sasuke that wasn't necessary!". She is literally tossed around as the lovesick thirdwheel and she assits the guys with her skills whenever she needs it, then she is trashed off when they want to keep on with their boylove.

 

ok i know i'm late but i'm busy

 

Naruto couldn't see what he did to her in that genjutsu...

[ns.Believe.It]

I hate how Sakura is being treated. :(

 

Sasuke just pulled a quite powerful attack on her you know, Naruto could've been a little bit angrier than "wth sasuke that wasn't necessary!". She is literally tossed around as the lovesick thirdwheel and she assits the guys with her skills whenever she needs it, then she is trashed off when they want to keep on with their boylove.

 

ok i know i'm late but i'm busy

I know. I don't understand Kishimoto's intentions here. If he did not want her to have any part in the NaruSasu fight he could have just left her there with Kakashi and not make her say anything. It would have been so much better than this. He unnecessarily made her look weak and lame. 

Edited by ns.Believe.It, 27 September 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[sushi.]

 

Naruto couldn't see what he did to her in that genjutsu...

I know, I thought of that, but it was strong enough to knock her out. Very mean.

[Princess Iris]

so what was heck was the point of this then?

 
like seriously!? I thought Sakura was at the point of not trusting Sasuke! Why is she acting like this now!?

she knew he has some other intention than being hokage


remember....she asked him

[Khaleesi]

rinnegan is not a sharingan power up, it is a doujutsu combined of the sharingan and byakugan but on a whole other lvl of power, or are you telling me nagato would have had all his six paths abilites and tensei moves with the sharingan? no, just no, someone hasn't been paying attention.....

No, that's not what i'm saying. I'm only talking about the IT. Rinnegan can control beasts like the Sharingan, but not cast genjutsus. Rinnengan can control the beasts with receptors. Tsukiyomi is a Sharingan's technique, and with the Rinnengan increased her expansion and power. Nagato never cast a genjutsu in anyone.

[FireFox]

I thought it was just for recreating that scene. He always turns that way before saying she's annoying. And don't you remember Sharingan doesn't need to make eye contact?

I believe that Rinnengan increases the power of Sharingan, not that it can cast one from itself. Nagato couldn't do it. That's why Madara needed both, Sharingan and Rinnegan. 

Naruto pointed that Sasuke casted a genjutsu on her, not that she currently is in one. Sakura just fainted after her speach, what else could it be if not a genjutsu?

No every time there is Genjutsu used it focused on the eye that is cast its not only for recreating a scene . Also Hagoromo already pointed out that Sasuke's Rinengan Genjutsu is very strong just look it up in the chapter were he puts the Bijuu's in Genjutsu as well in the previous one when he says that the Rinengan can cast and disrupt the IT . And no Madara needed the Rinengan to cast IT Genjutsu again look at that chapter  but here this explains the Rinengan far better  http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rinnegan .  Also there is nothing pointing out that she isn't in a genjutsu anymore  the IT example is a good indication of being in a genjutsu even if unconscious it only means that she's probably dreaming so it is possible for Sakura to be in one . 

[ultranx]

No, that's not what i'm saying. I'm only talking about the IT. Rinnegan can control beasts like the Sharingan, but not cast genjutsus. Rinnengan can control the beasts with receptors. Tsukiyomi is a Sharingan's technique, and with the Rinnengan increased her expansion and power. Nagato never cast a genjutsu in anyone.

you're still missing the point, the regular tsukiyomi is a sharingan technique yes, but the infinite tsukiyomi is in fact a rinnegan only technique, or did you forget the whole point of madara stealing back his rinnegan eyes to use it? if he did only need the sharingan he wouldn't have gotten rid of obito's eye that he stole, not to mention why he didn't just cast the infinite tsukiyomi with just the one rinnegan he had? sure being a uchiha has to do with using the eyes properly but even then the rinnegan itself was needed to cast the genjutsu at all.

Edited by ultranx, 27 September 2014 - 08:02 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I got it. Okay, I want you all to please follow me on this because this just hit me. I am not sure if it is correct, but it is a something. It could be the route that can be taken.

I was watching the movie "She's Out of My League" and thinking about this. I watched it because someone made an awesome NaruSaku trailer for it and I loved it so I had to watch the movie. In the movie, the two love birds end up fighting and going back to their previous lovers with the girl saying "I only dated you because it was safe." This was obviously a lie and it was a lie because their friends pushed them into thinking they weren't right for each other when they really were. This caused rifts between them because like Naruto, the guy thought he wasn't good enough for her, and like Sakura, the girl wanted something else because he ex-boyfriend was a huge jerk.

I was thinking this over and over about the context of this scene especially since it seemed to reverse a lot of development that was established: Naruto's PoaL, Kakashi saying Sakura had changed, the works. (I am not arguing the Naruto's promise anymore because we all know that translations mean little if the context of the scene is lost. This is evident by this chapter now where we really have no idea on the context of that scene and thus we are all in a rut.) Now, just because Naruto dropped the promise does not mean he couldn't pick it back up, but why would he pick it back up? Why would Kakashi say and almost appear to support SasuSaku? In every kitchy romance movie I have ever watched, there is always a scene where it looks like the couple will not end up together because they have this big fight or something doesn't go right or something appears off. Exactly like this scene. However, that is the lowest point of any of those movies and we know that eventually the main couple gets together in the end.

Applying this context to this, it could explain a lot. Let's look at Sakura for a minute. She supposedly confesses again and tells Sasuke to rejoin them and such. A lot of people took this as her begging. Now granted this doesn't "look" good and I am not going to say it does, but as some pointed out it is not what some of us think. She is still stuck believing Sasuke is this great guy for whatever reason whether it be the bench scene, Naruto pushing her into believing it, or maybe all of the above. Love is confusing. I know I have my share and there were a couple of times I dated someone knowing full well they were toxic because I looked down on myself. Sakura looks down on herself so maybe she feels in a way it is sort of a punishment for her. If Naruto is fighting to keep that promise, then she should hold onto the love for Sasuke under false idealism to make sure Naruto's efforts don't go to waste. She even says this with Obito in a similar context and maybe it is the same way.

This reminds me of the Matrix and when the Oracle talks to Neo. We all know Neo was and always fated to be the one, but he needed to realize this himself otherwise it wold never happen. The Oracle told him that he wasn't the one and gave him the latin quote: "Temet Nosce." The entire concept of the Oracle and Neo was that Neo had to believe in himself that he was the one. He couldn't base his entire views on other people even though everyone else knew he was the one. Trinity knew he was the one because she fell in love with him. Morpheus knew he was the one because he believed it. What caused Neo to become the one? He had to make a choice in saving Morpheus from what he believes was a lost cause. Here it is a similar set up here.  (Wasn't Kishimoto also a fan of the Matrix?) Of course, Sakura is not Trinity and Naruto is not Neo, but I am just showing how writers can play with scenes and be cryptic.

With that being said, let's look at Naruto's promise which could be tied into the Neo's choice of saving Morpheus. It is a tool to really push the idea into him that Naruto was still in love with Sakura and willing to do anything. Even if that idea defies logic as Neo said "I can't explain why, just I know it isn't [suicidal]." This, as some have said, kills off NaruHina, but it does even more to establish that Naruto isn't changing his mind. He still believes in something, but he doesn't know what or how to achieve it. His heart is broken and disappointed maybe, but it hasn't stopped him yet.

Now we have Kakashi and his words. Again, bugged me for a while and I found myself questioning it all. Not just the scene, but the entire manga after this. Was it all pointless or is Kakashi stupid? Kakashi supports SasuSaku....or does he? I have a theory. When Kakashi said that Sakura has changed, it was mental. He didn't say it out loud. What he did say outloud was that Sakura was suffering for the love she has/had for Sasuke and Sasuke is just taking it like it was the best joke in the world. What if the point of this was to tell Naruto something, not just to tell Sasuke. So you know that you can't push two people together and make them fall in love. It never works. Naruto never really understood that that love was toxic for her. He just wanted to save Sasuke and be in good graces with Sakura. I wonder if this is supposed to act like a revelation. Naruto, you can see that Sasuke and Sakura together is toxic and Sasuke is tearing her apart...so why are you supporting it? You said you loved her and wanted to make her happy....does Sasuke make her happy? We as the audience know he doesn't, but the characters don't. We are like gods watching things unfold, but we cannot interfere with it. The characters have to figure things out for themselves. (This is what we call drama.) What if Kakashi is not supporting SasuSaku, but trying to open Naruto's eyes to the reality of it? Of course, he can't outright say to Naruto: "Sasuke is making Sakura suffer" because otherwise he would just deny it like how he denied Sakura's words. He has to show it to Naruto for him to get that idea. So how can you show it? Push it onto Sasuke and see how he reacts showing Naruto first hand what Sasuke is thinking. To show Naurto a truth about Sasuke. It's...kind of genius in a way. You may not like it, but it is a show not tell kind of thing.

I believe Naruto is the one living a lie and living in denial of things. I can support this because look at all the previous chapters where people told Naruto that Sasuke was bad and he denied it. Sakura told Naruto that she loved him and cared for him and wanted him to stop casing Sasuke and he denied it. (Again, Sakura was telling the truth and just because Naruto denied it doesn't mean she was lying.) The other characters I can see actually know the obvious answers, but Naruto himself. You are probably asking "Isn't Sakura living in denial too?" Yes, BUT...and this a huge BUT what if Naruto pushed her in believing something she didn't want to believe? Sakura has always been about confliction and about what Naruto believes. Naruto who keeps pushing his own views onto people thinking they are wrong when really to some can say "I saw it myself. You can't tell me otherwise." What if this entire thing was Naruto's fault to begin with? And this is where not only is Naruto proven wrong, but has to learn a huge lesson to truly achieve real peace.

Know Thyself. Naruto in part 1 was the same way. Noone believed he would never be a great ninja and thought he was just a reject and a joke. Look at him now. he proved that he wasn't a failure and that he was one of the greatest ninja to have ever lived. He was right, but he had to show them that he was. He couldn't just scream it.





 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 27 September 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[Khaleesi]

you're still missing the point, the regular tsukiyomi is a sharingan technique yes, but the infinite tsukiyomi is in fact a rinnegan only technique, or did you forget the whole point of madara stealing back his rinnegan eyes to use it?

That's what i'm saying they need both for IT

 

No every time there is Genjutsu used it focused on the eye that is cast its not only for recreating a scene . Also Hagoromo already pointed out that Sasuke's Rinengan Genjutsu is very strong just look it up in the chapter were he puts the Bijuu's in Genjutsu as well in the previous one when he says that the Rinengan can cast and disrupt the IT . And no Madara needed the Rinengan to cast IT Genjutsu again look at that chapter  but here this explains the Rinengan far better  http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Rinnegan .  Also there is nothing pointing out that she isn't in a genjutsu anymore  the IT example is a good indication of being in a genjutsu even if unconscious it only means that she's probably dreaming so it is possible for Sakura to be in one . 

"A red-coloured Rinnegan is able to cast theInfinite Tsukuyomi" Rinnegan + Sharingan, not Rinnegan itself. 

But yeah, i believe you are right, i forgot Sasuke's Rinnegan is not the same as other ones.