4869 replies to this topic

[Miss Soupy]

So the bench scene was essentially the beginning of NS and SS as a serious pairing? Interesting...

Though, I do think Sakura saw something in Sasuke besides just the 'cool guy' that caused her to fall in love with him rather than just keeping it a crush. I can't place what, so it might have been the bench scene after all...I'm undecided ^^;; But I think part of Sakura's early dedication to Sasuke was born out of her determination to beat Ino. Sasuke was the popular guy, Sakura wanted to be popular. She also wanted to stand out compared to Ino, so being with Sasuke was the best way she could do it. Just..where did she believe it was sincere love..hm.

[James S Cassidy]

You know I have been wondering that myself.

I don't think there is a specific point where she was being sincere. Heck, a part of me doesn't think she wasn't even being sincere at all and based all emotion on idolization. If there is a point where she was sincere, I would have to say between the time Sasuke left Konoha, to the Promise of a lifetime. Maybe that whole moment all together.

It is possible, she started to change her ideas on her love for him ever since Naruto came back from his battle with him. All I know is, she is very fickle and maybe she didn't really know what she wanted and followed only what most people expect from "top-of-the-line." They always want the best stuff an at the time Sasuke was the best choice. Now he isn't.

[Miss Soupy]

I wouldn't say Sakura is fickle. The problem is she put her hopes and dreams into a boy she didn't really know. Can't really blame her; she always tried to get to know him or at least spend time with him. Sasuke just wasn't very open with her to begin with. I mean, Sasuke and Naruto were a lot closer, or at least understood each other mutually, and even Naruto never thought Sasuke would go as far as to leave the village with Orochimaru. So Sakura, who was even more distant to Sasuke than Naruto, didn't have much of a chance to see who Sasuke really was.

[Froot]

Right. I think it was a combination of her hero-worship of Sasuke, the bench scene, and her competition with Ino. The bench scene really decided it, though.

So I believe, ever since then, Sakura has been in love with the idea of Sasuke, not Sasuke himself, since, as Soupy pointed out, she barely knows him beyond the illusion of him.

[catsi563]

So the bench scene was essentially the beginning of NS and SS as a serious pairing? Interesting

not totally Soupy but close.

the only confirmed pairing in this manga and I grant this may be short sighted of me bit its my opinion base don manga evidence, is NaruSaku.

NaruHina was never a possibility due to the fact that Hinata was never decloped past the small plot devices she played. had NaruHina been a serious possbility she would have played a much greater role in part 1 then she did.

SasuSaku was also never a possibility because the bench scene was designed as narusaku moment only. it was a moment that naruto discovered why he liekd sakura so much (her determination mirrors his own and her desriee to be acknowledged)), and a moment when we discover why Sakura dislikes naruto so much ((a broad misunderstanding between them where she feels he doesnt understand her and always interferes and wants to see her fail))

SasuSaku was only ever a one sided crush meant to be a starting point for the sakura character to grow from, a point of rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke ((from narutos pov not sasukes who could care less about sakura romantically)), and a point of rivalr between Sakura and Ino. And an eventual point of growth for Naruto as he steps aside for Sakura to make the promise of a lifetime.

to put it simply in conclusion. If Hinata were to be a serious romantic interest for Naruto, given Kishimotos writing and patterns, she would have been a far more visible character then she is now. and would have been given a far more deeper develpment then she has been. Instead she has been used twice as a plot device to foreshadow the conflict between Naruto and Neji, and to push naruto over the edge and make him go kyuubi.

For SasuSaku as ive said before, you cant sink a ship that never sailed in the first place and was never gonna sail. But if any scene could be said to have torpedoed SasuSaku it was the opening scene of Shippuden when Sakura runs out and sees Sasuke for the first time in 2 and half years and whispers his name in shock.

his grand romantic responce

"Sakura huh."

thats it. her name and after that he dismisses her from his mind and doesnt even look at her until she is about to swat him one.

[ciardha]

What made Sakura love Sasuke are two things the bench scene- which we and Naruto know wasn't Sasuke but Sakura doesn't, and Sasuke only true moment of acting just for Sakura's protection- in the Forest of Death when he regained consciousness and was enraged by how she had been hurt by the Sound ninja, he activates the curse seal the first time, and goes homicidal- which frightens Sakura, but she is able to calm him back down to normal by crying out and embracing him from behind (thus we see where her actions toward Naruto in 296 comes from her love for him and a mistaken belief that she could draw Naruto back the same way, but Kyuubi isn't curse seal, in curse seal Sasuke's consciousness was still there, just influenced by rage)

Sasuke gets mean and scary to her though almost immediately afterwards, gripping her arm painfully and telling her she better not tell Naruto about the curse seal. So she's confused about how he feels about her even though she's in love with him.

[tricksie]

When I first read the manga, I was absolutely floored that people had made such a big deal over SasuSaku when there were just the barest threads of even a friendship there. But they did share a bond, and ciardha and catsi both your posts allude to that.

I have sympathy for Sasuke, and part of me wanted him to choose Sakura because you know he's going down a path he can't return from, but there was never any love for him.

Sakura was lost from the start, from that bench seen which no love-sickgirl could recover from. If anything, it shows how much Sakura has grown because she's let go of that love without ever knowing the truth that we all know - that it was never Sasuke to begin with. It's easy to forget. She has every reason to hold on to hope for him (and if HE were the main character, we would expect her to and see that whackdoodle commitment as a strength), and more than that her other teammate supports he screwed-up love, but she's recognized that Sasuke's changed, he's not good for neither her nor Naruto, and she has moved on. *scratches head at bashers who say she's not strong*

But she shares a bond with him - she was Sasuke's secret keeper. She cared about him and was frightened of him at the same time. Talk about some crazy mixed-messages! He's ready to die for her and and for Naruto, he responds to her calming him down after the curse mark, then is manipulative and a little physical when telling her not to tell anyone.

It's not all puppy-dog love here. She's frightened of him before he even leaves. She's not trotting around behind him - she's actively shaping her destiny as well (something a lot of sasusaku shippers seem to gloss over). Standing up to him at the end, confessing to him, taking it when he puts her down - all those are acts of courage. Declaring your love to someone who has never been supportive of you and has put you down to your face before, *tricksie pauses here for the windup* well that's a heck of a lot harder than declaring your love for the sunniest guy around who's always ready with a thumbs-up *and lobs on at the naruhina shippers for good measure*.

Anyway - both posts have given me pause to think. The bench scene is vitally important to understanding and excusing Sakura's romantic view of Sasuke, but there is also an underlying teammate bond that, though not highlighted as much as the NaruSaku bond, is as important.

I would really like to see Sasuke acknowledge Sakura in someway.....then I'd like to see her to tell him how annoying he's been!!! Muwhawhawha!

[Miss Soupy]

I don't know about that catsi, I think they are called the big three for a reason. Whatever reason Sakura has for falling for Sasuke, the fact remains that she did to the point where she sincerely believed she was in love with him. You can sail a ship due to one-sided love, that's where most pairings come from XD and Sakura did love Sasuke. I do agree that SS is probably the least likely of the 3 pairings mainly because getting Sasuke to ever feel love for a girl seems almost impossible. Also, I believe kishi has, for the most part, portrayed SS in a bad light. I don't believe he is going the route of Sakura -> Sasuke, a criminal love! when he could go NaruSaku, a growing fondness.

As far as NH...it remains in the middle for me on it's chance of happening (of course NS is the most likely). At least Hinata is a nice person, however undeveloped she is. Though I don't think Naruto is attracted to her at all.

[RedDelicious]

given the evidence of the manga my thought is that Sakura began with what well call a crush of admiration on Sasuke similar to what Hinata has with Naruto. While she didnt have anything in common with him she admired him from afar much as many teenage girls do with rock stars and actors.

It wasn't just Sakura and Ino.
During the chunin exam finals, we find out "the majority of the shinobi leaders and lords (...) are here mainly (...) to see this next match" with Sasuke. That's a lot of man-crushing.

Why would the girls, who actually spent time with Sasuke, be any different?

[ciardha]

When I first read the manga, I was absolutely floored that people had made such a big deal over SasuSaku when there were just the barest threads of even a friendship there. But they did share a bond, and ciardha and catsi both your posts allude to that.

I have sympathy for Sasuke, and part of me wanted him to choose Sakura because you know he's going down a path he can't return from, but there was never any love for him.

Sakura was lost from the start, from that bench seen which no love-sickgirl could recover from. If anything, it shows how much Sakura has grown because she's let go of that love without ever knowing the truth that we all know - that it was never Sasuke to begin with. It's easy to forget. She has every reason to hold on to hope for him (and if HE were the main character, we would expect her to and see that whackdoodle commitment as a strength), and more than that her other teammate supports he screwed-up love, but she's recognized that Sasuke's changed, he's not good for neither her nor Naruto, and she has moved on. *scratches head at bashers who say she's not strong*

But she shares a bond with him - she was Sasuke's secret keeper. She cared about him and was frightened of him at the same time. Talk about some crazy mixed-messages! He's ready to die for her and and for Naruto, he responds to her calming him down after the curse mark, then is manipulative and a little physical when telling her not to tell anyone.

It's not all puppy-dog love here. She's frightened of him before he even leaves. She's not trotting around behind him - she's actively shaping her destiny as well (something a lot of sasusaku shippers seem to gloss over). Standing up to him at the end, confessing to him, taking it when he puts her down - all those are acts of courage. Declaring your love to someone who has never been supportive of you and has put you down to your face before, *tricksie pauses here for the windup* well that's a heck of a lot harder than declaring your love for the sunniest guy around who's always ready with a thumbs-up *and lobs on at the naruhina shippers for good measure*.

Anyway - both posts have given me pause to think. The bench scene is vitally important to understanding and excusing Sakura's romantic view of Sasuke, but there is also an underlying teammate bond that, though not highlighted as much as the NaruSaku bond, is as important.

I would really like to see Sasuke acknowledge Sakura in someway.....then I'd like to see her to tell him how annoying he's been!!! Muwhawhawha!

That would be funny. You bring up great points too. And look at her confession scene, she is certain he'll never love her, basically she offers to go with him in the hope her love for him can save him from plunging completely into the darkness. Even though he isn't capable of loving her, she wants to remind him of the joys in life to try to keep him from being consumed by hatred and revenge. But it also marks the start of the end of any illusions of romantic fantasies of love for Sasuke. Facing that was intensely hard, thus the kind of shape she was in when Naruto made the POAL. But by the time Naruto came back injured by Sasuke she's already started to put that illusion away for good. And her thoughts immediately after Naruto makes the POAL and reactions and words when she sees Naruto in the hospital marks the beginnings of her long held- since chapter 13, mostly subconscious true romantic feelings for Naruto, to begins rising to her conscious mind. By the time she sees him again after 2 1/2 years, it's right there. Yamato's words in 297 just made her able to put it together that what she felt for Naruto was real love.

[narusakuluv]

Although I support Narusaku as my favorite pairing, another part of the manga that I am absolutely in love with is the narusakusasu love triangle. It's a truly complex and amazing creation, with all sorts of different layers and subtleties. Sakura's love for Sasuke is interesting to me because it is a strange combination of selflessness and selfishness. The selfish aspect of this is her fairytale dream and her attraction to Sasuke as the 'perfect boy'. This is the fangirl side of Sakura that is portrayed early on in the series, but it is also her stubborn refusal to let go of this vision of Sasuke even later on in the series that is also selfish. The selfless side of Sakura's love is the part that ran after him when he transformed into the Curse Seal Level one in the forest of death, the part that worried about him leaving to go to Orochimaru, the part that tried to stop him, the part that has been working hard for years to bring him home. Sasuke has always been an enigma, because you think that he doesn't care at all about anything and then he smirks when he sees the "Great Naruto bridge" and he flashes-back to team 7 when he thinks his current teammates are about to die...so even though he seems like an emotionless ba*tard, I still think he is redeemable. Naruto is an endless fountain of commitment to every person he has ever known, most particularly Sakura and Sasuke, and he cares for them so much that sometimes it seems ridiculous.
Many people label this triangle as simply: Naruto --> Sakura --> Sasuke. But it is much more complicated than that. It is changing, as it has been in the process of doing ever since the beginning of the series. Sakura's feelings for Naruto have steadily grown every since she first acknowledged his strength. In my opinion, the most interesting aspect of the love triangle is Sakura's feelings for both her boys. Sasuke and Naruto are opposites: Sasuke was created as a foil for Naruto. Sasuke is genius, Naruto is hard work. Sasuke is dark, Naruto is light. Sasuke lost everything, Naruto never had anything. Sasuke is the Avenger, Naruto is the Saviour. But there is a third point to balance this out: Sakura. The most important people to Sakura are her boys, Naruto and Sasuke, and she will do anything to protect them. This has been Sakura's theme ever since she cut her hair in the forest of death, "I will protect those two." She loves two completely opposite boys. But it is not a static relationship, because in Part I Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are vastly larger than her feelings for Naruto. As time goes on, Sakura's feelings for Naruto grow until with Sakura's confession, her feelings for Naruto have now officially surpassed her feelings for Sasuke. To me, it doesn't matter if Sakura's feelings are real or not: she decided that protecting Naruto was more important than protecting Sasuke. Because Sakura, unlike Naruto, is not the messiah. Naruto once said that if he had to choose between the village and sasuke, he would choose both. And he probably would, because that is Naruto's role in the story, the person who can save everyone. But Sakura is, as Kishimoto has often stated, a normal girl. She has gotten to the point where it is impossible to protect both Naruto and Sasuke and so she has decided on the person who is more important to her: Naruto. Her love confession may have been false, but it was a step toward Narusaku eventually becoming cannon.
Sorry if this is confusing, I'm REALLY TIRED. Hopefully you can make some sense out of it.

[Merger Knight]

I understand. And I agree It would be nice to see everyone have a happy ending, but unfortunately, it's just not meant to be sometimes. I would have liked Obito, Lee, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Gaara, Kakashi, Shikamaru, Chouji, Ino, so on and so forth, to find someone, but none of their romantic lives has gotten attention, and it would end up being like a bad fanfiction where everyone has to be with someone else.

that is true in real life everyone can't be happy even though it would be cool in fiction

So the bench scene was essentially the beginning of NS and SS as a serious pairing? Interesting...

Though, I do think Sakura saw something in Sasuke besides just the 'cool guy' that caused her to fall in love with him rather than just keeping it a crush. I can't place what, so it might have been the bench scene after all...I'm undecided ^^;; But I think part of Sakura's early dedication to Sasuke was born out of her determination to beat Ino. Sasuke was the popular guy, Sakura wanted to be popular. She also wanted to stand out compared to Ino, so being with Sasuke was the best way she could do it. Just..where did she believe it was sincere love..hm.

iguess thats another thing she had in common with Naruto. They were both made fun of as kids kind of

Although I support Narusaku as my favorite pairing, another part of the manga that I am absolutely in love with is the narusakusasu love triangle. It's a truly complex and amazing creation, with all sorts of different layers and subtleties. Sakura's love for Sasuke is interesting to me because it is a strange combination of selflessness and selfishness. The selfish aspect of this is her fairytale dream and her attraction to Sasuke as the 'perfect boy'. This is the fangirl side of Sakura that is portrayed early on in the series, but it is also her stubborn refusal to let go of this vision of Sasuke even later on in the series that is also selfish. The selfless side of Sakura's love is the part that ran after him when he transformed into the Curse Seal Level one in the forest of death, the part that worried about him leaving to go to Orochimaru, the part that tried to stop him, the part that has been working hard for years to bring him home. Sasuke has always been an enigma, because you think that he doesn't care at all about anything and then he smirks when he sees the "Great Naruto bridge" and he flashes-back to team 7 when he thinks his current teammates are about to die...so even though he seems like an emotionless ba*tard, I still think he is redeemable. Naruto is an endless fountain of commitment to every person he has ever known, most particularly Sakura and Sasuke, and he cares for them so much that sometimes it seems ridiculous.
Many people label this triangle as simply: Naruto --> Sakura --> Sasuke. But it is much more complicated than that. It is changing, as it has been in the process of doing ever since the beginning of the series. Sakura's feelings for Naruto have steadily grown every since she first acknowledged his strength. In my opinion, the most interesting aspect of the love triangle is Sakura's feelings for both her boys. Sasuke and Naruto are opposites: Sasuke was created as a foil for Naruto. Sasuke is genius, Naruto is hard work. Sasuke is dark, Naruto is light. Sasuke lost everything, Naruto never had anything. Sasuke is the Avenger, Naruto is the Saviour. But there is a third point to balance this out: Sakura. The most important people to Sakura are her boys, Naruto and Sasuke, and she will do anything to protect them. This has been Sakura's theme ever since she cut her hair in the forest of death, "I will protect those two." She loves two completely opposite boys. But it is not a static relationship, because in Part I Sakura's feelings for Sasuke are vastly larger than her feelings for Naruto. As time goes on, Sakura's feelings for Naruto grow until with Sakura's confession, her feelings for Naruto have now officially surpassed her feelings for Sasuke. To me, it doesn't matter if Sakura's feelings are real or not: she decided that protecting Naruto was more important than protecting Sasuke. Because Sakura, unlike Naruto, is not the messiah. Naruto once said that if he had to choose between the village and sasuke, he would choose both. And he probably would, because that is Naruto's role in the story, the person who can save everyone. But Sakura is, as Kishimoto has often stated, a normal girl. She has gotten to the point where it is impossible to protect both Naruto and Sasuke and so she has decided on the person who is more important to her: Naruto. Her love confession may have been false, but it was a step toward Narusaku eventually becoming cannon.
Sorry if this is confusing, I'm REALLY TIRED. Hopefully you can make some sense out of it.

that is an interesting look at things.

[Cloud]

Ugh. Long walls of text, please put behind spoilers when quoting!

[Merger Knight]

Ugh. Long walls of text, please put behind spoilers when quoting!

sorry i keep on forgeting about the extra stuff on the side that can do stuff like that

[Miss Soupy]

@narusakuluv

Haha, it's ok XD I used to indulge in some NaruSakuSasu myself >.> though I didn't like yaoi, and I always wanted to see more NaruSaku than SasuSaku parts too I do believe it is, or was, a strong bond so it was kind of interesting. And they were always happy to be together, sort of uplifting. But NaruSaku has always been closest to my heart

[James S Cassidy]

Sorry if this is confusing, I'm REALLY TIRED. Hopefully you can make some sense out of it.

It's kind of interesting, but I kind of see where you are going.

See, ever since Shippuden came around I saw it like.

Naruto is the hero to everyone. Even if he fails, he tries to save everyone he can to make a better world. However, he doesn't know to deal with his own problems. He either ignores them or overcomes them by replacing them with someone else's problems. He never really solves his own problems.

I think this is what Sakura is. She is the hero to the hero. While Naruto saves everyone, Sakura is going to save him and I think even she knows that because she is the only one who can. Can Hinata save him? I don't know, but really I say no. Hinata, while caring, doesn't know Naruto that much. She loves him yes, but she doesn't know how he really feels or thinks. She doesn't know his heart like Sakura does.

Sakura is determined to save Naruto even if it means killing Sasuke. Maybe, just maybe she will try to save Sasuke. Not really because she loves him, but because she realized her true role is to become the hero to the heroes/anti-hero.

This is one reason why I think NaruSaku is the right choice.

As for Sasuke, while he is not emotionless or soul-less. He just doesn't want love. He doesn't want to be in a relationship because he finds love to be a weakness. He wants power and strength through brute force. Not through love.

[jinsterr]

As for Sasuke, while he is not emotionless or soul-less. He just doesn't want love. He doesn't want to be in a relationship because he finds love to be a weakness. He wants power and strength through brute force. Not through love.

Yeah, when I first started on the Naruto series, I never thought Sasuke's role was ever to reciprocate Sakura's feelings or pick love over hate. I always thought his purpose was to be the avenger he'd claimed to be at the very beginning.

Sasuke's trials, from what I've seen, have always been about choosing between what is right and what is wrong. And we've seen him develop: he's learned the value of friendship through his experiences with Naruto and Team 7 and we've also seen him become enticed by the darkside.

I always thought that goodbye scene with Sakura in the series (as well as his talk with Kakashi prior to when Sasuke first meets the Sound-nins) was one of Sasuke's pivotal moments because again, he's presented with the ultimate choice--revenge or friendship/love--which eventually decides the course of his future.

And well, he chose the former :\

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Another Thing that bothers me why the other Fandoms(Anti NS) really OPPOSED and ASSUMED that GUILT, PAIN, and LIES are all about NS.
What about NH and SS are made of?

In such way, they had given a different understanding sabout the hints on the NS part, they again Assumed it is all Platonic/ambiguous matter.

I had observed this, when our fellow NS debaters will present their CONCRETE, Full of Facts/Evidence, they will oppose it as if they are really presenting it well, but if you read it, It is Drastic, and Nonsense as if they are assuming all of what they said will gonna happen.

For LOL:
It looks like they somewhat, built a spaceship, gone to a another planet or dimension, look for any evidence their that support their pairing(They wish! ) and present it here.

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 18 November 2009 - 05:49 PM.

[catsi563]

You can sail a ship due to one-sided love, that's where most pairings come from XD and Sakura did love Sasuke

yes you can this is true, but to continue the analogy its like sailing a boat with no bottom, it isnt going to sail far no matter how much the fandom bails water.

I do agree that SS is probably the least likely of the 3 pairings mainly because getting Sasuke to ever feel love for a girl seems almost impossible

Actualy thats not quite true. Again I think people are severly underestimating Karin in this regard. After doing some research I was stunned at the level of raw develpment that Sasuke and Karin have received as a couple. it nearly rivals our own dear NaruSaku.

and yet people continue to dismiss it out of hand, calling Karin a fangirl and worse. Its ironic really that Sakura would nearly be outclassed in the hatred people have for ehr by the hatred people have for Karin.

In the end a lot of fandoms are going to be eating crow about Karin before shes done. I think shes gonna have a strong effect on sasuke, and by coincidence Naruto and Sakura as well.

[Miss Soupy]

Yeah I just LOL at the guilt, pain, and lies thing. Honestly, what would NH be based upon if not guilt and pain after Hinata's martyr-like confession?