31712 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Bold: I think we all know that's what happened or something alike to that. Kishimoto from the beginning to somewhat more or less half manga had his ideas drawn in the manga in the majority of the times. It's seen by how the manga was constant then we see some contradictions later on. The guy can't in complete voluntary make the aftermath that we got also.
 
Characters' assassination and contradiction in their personality towards the ending, pairings that had all of a sudden being seen to be established at the last two chapters that weren't seen to have mutual moments before in the manga, a character that was aggressive towards another character who end up having her resulting from it a bad moral, the protagonist goals aren't met with also surpassing his mentor's failures except for one which is Hokage, some of the author's work in Part 1 and early Part 2 was like suddenly forgotten to result in plot holes and contradictions afterwards in the overall plot. That's what I can recall.
 
Taking at least the third of what is mentioned above, I don't think at all an author with his right mind would do that on something he had spent hours on for years. We know how the WSJ and Shueisha works, which  at some point, Kishimoto was being talked with editors, directors or both to have plans changed for the sake of fans and money.

Of course no sane author would do that. i know from experience how much wornout exertion it can inflict on the mind over countless hours and the years go by. Discarding what they wrote and drew on paper does not easily come without a big bargain. No author is crazy enough to come out live on national TV and confessed that he was deliberately misleading a large portion of fans for 15 years without money to pay of all the collateral damage that came out of Kishi's mouth. That's why most of his interviews are staged.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 09 September 2016 - 06:33 PM.

[T XD]

Of course no sane author would do that. i know from experience how much wornout exertion it can inflict on the mind over countless hours and the years go by. Discarding what they wrote and drew on paper does not easily come without a big bargain. No author is crazy enough to come out live on national TV and confessed that he was deliberately misleading a large portion of fans for 15 years without money to pay of all the collateral damage that came out of Kishi's mouth. That's why most of his interviews are staged.

I always notice how his interviews contradict each other. It seems they tell him what too say for some questions.

[db84x]

Which is why they are ending the anime.

Fan servis is common in anime world, as victim of overly fans services in past I can understand NS sentiment

[Bail o' Lies]

Fan servis Fan service is common in anime world, as victim of overly fans services in past I can understand NS sentiment

That is not a rebuttal, that is not even a deflection. You are out right just ignoring my post is and my response to your previous post.

 

You said, "Its money, as long as Naruto fandom willing to buy it than SP will animate it." By your logic the Naruto anime will continue indefinitely as long as it makes SP money.

 

My response was, "Which is why they are ending the anime." So, by your own logic. Naruto is no longer making SP any money.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 10 September 2016 - 05:58 AM.

[db84x]

That is not a rebuttal, that is not even a deflection. You are out right just ignoring my post is and my response to your previous post.

 

You said, "Its money, as long as Naruto fandom willing to buy it than SP will animate it." By your logic the Naruto anime will continue indefinitely as long as it makes SP money.

 

My response was, "Which is why they are ending the anime." So, by your own logic. Naruto is no longer making SP any money.

 

It already run out content while fans already complaining about filler fest, wait winter for novel animation.  

Edited by db84x, 10 September 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[n7610]

EDIT: Okay I seriously did not realize how long this was. Sorry about that. But I really wanted to get this off my chest!

 

Wow, I seriously thought I was the only one who just felt like the ending was off. And this is coming off of someone who really didn't care about the whole ship debate until the very end. In all honesty, I just expected Naruto in the end to go it alone ship-wise instead of this giant disaster that we have right now. And having browsed around here for a bit, all I can really say is:

 

Holy kitten, I knew it!

 

Around the time the series was ending I was trying my hardest to avoid spoilers because I'd rather have seen the ending in the anime. A goal which I lost long ago This was all because of a random untagged spoiler on the Naruto Forums. Going on about how Naruto and Sasuke both blew up each other's arms. So I dropped the anime and read the last chapters and was absolutely revolted by the contrived drivel that led to it. Sasuke's Bipolar attitudes towards everything in particular. I was all for his entire revolution plot if it were actually somewhat planned out instead of the straight out of left field: "Oh hey, I'm going to be hokage." Then the addition of Hagoromo destroying just about everything that the series tried to build up in part 1. Because Kishimoto couldn't make his up mind about anything in the series and instead opted to just take an easy route out due to writers fatigue. It's shoddy writing but it's not the cherry on top.

 

 

Instead, whether through executive meddling or otherwise. We got a jumble of cheap fanservice mixed in with character assassination on all fronts. That is the absolute insult that so many fans choose to ignore whether through ships or otherwise. Where to even begin? Massive essay incoming

 

Lets start with the titular character, Naruto. Because you know, the protagonist? The character we are supposed to like and understand? Gone. An empty husk like the series is right now. Tossed aside like an old toy because the newer cooler model is out now! He is like an old worn out toy that is seriously a joke at the end of the series. He is never there for his son. Because the plot demands so in order to create melodrama about how awful he is. He is never there for his children, always busy, so on and so forth. And the main excuse for it? "Lol people change" according to just about every ending supporter. I'm sorry, What? People just do a 180 degree flip because they get older? He loses any form of empathy he expressed through the entire series just because he needed to get out of the spotlight in order to bring in a new cash cow for the series to fester on. I sure as hell hope I don't ever do that. And I'm pretty sure nobody just gives up on all of his/her personality as soon as they hit 18 because of romance. It's just wrong on all fronts and completely unnecessary for the series. if it were developed effectively. (And it sure as hell was not.) I could maybe, just maybe get behind the idea of the cop out that happened right here. Yet there was absolutely no telegraphing at all. Leading to this point where we are right now. 

 

I think what made me realize it was partly because, if you really look back and think about it, Hinata always supported and acknowledged Naruto, even before Master Iruka. She had the ability to see beyond his reputation and see the true person inside. I think I started realizing that they were meant to be.

 

 

I grew up watching a character who literally said he would "never give up" yet in the Last, since he got rejected by Hinata (And don't give me the whole Toneri crap. It's irrelevant to the point whatsoever.) He gives up on everything and is perfectly willing to let the world burn. OUT OF CHARACTER. For the sake of romance. Anyone remember the entire spiel with Obito? The world will/won't end? Huh. Guess that doesn't matter does it? But so long as it makes money, who cares? Surprisingly, a lot of people as evidenced on this forum. Respect to you guys.

 

 

http://honyakusha-er...om-cinema-today

Q: Before now, you have had experience with supervision and story in movie production.

Kishimoto: With Road To Ninja –Naruto the Movie– I dealt with the composition, and in The Last –Naruto the Movie– I did the character designs and was chief story supervisor. However, this is the first time that I’ve completely written everything from the start, including the lines.

 

http://www.saiyanisl...narutos-finale/

Q: You will turn 40 years old on Nov. 8. How do you feel about that?

Kishimoto: I remain a child in terms of mentality. Nothing has changed from age 25, when the series started. I just worked at the desk to create high-quality, interesting manga, and 15 years passed before I knew it.

 

 

 

Furthermore, Lets time skip 20 years because this is exactly what the series needed. A fresh start, new technology, ugly character designs, fanservice characters through the roof, pop pairings (because they are the only thing keeping the series afloat.) Oh, and here's Naruto dead, and have his bratty son who nobody cares about because money.

 

Lets just start this from the top. Boruto is absolutely not a fresh start to the series. All it is, is a fresh coat of paint. Peace? Nope, here's Konoha destroyed for the N'th time. Yaay. Oh and here are more aliens from a movie that is barely canon. As well as showing off how cool and overpowered the old characters look now because we need to make sure we have as many links as possible to hook in old fans. Some fresh start.

 

The entire concept of futuristic Konoha is just bizzare and contrived too. It simply doesn't fit with the entire ninja storyline. And the whole non-sense with Kawaki going on about the era of ninja is over really just sits wrong with me as a reader. A change in setting is fine. But an upheaval of the ground below us is not a sign of quality. It's a sign of desperation. It's contrived and unnecessary as usual. And it doesn't make for interesting reading in a series about "ninjas."

 

Now we have the new characters as well as updated redesigns of the old ones which I absolutely deplore. Boruto is a punk fashionista, Sadara seriously looks like a hooker, Mitsuki looks like Orochimaru 2.0, Sasuke is Madara 1 and 1/2, Sakura is more or less the same Hinata is all boobs,. And Naruto is a dead fish. Oh and Gaara is Hitler. Part 2 was the height of character design for me personally. But instead of actually following with some kind of theme towards design just about everyone in the series. They are either completely changed around, as some kind of sick joke, or fanservice. I don't see a spry and lively Naruto anymore (that joke about Himawari sterilizing naruto got a good laugh out of me, Kudos!) I see a completely defeated Sasuke. I see a punkish spoiled brat who gets everything handed to him on a plate yet still isn't happy even when he gets what he wants. It's quality. Right? More like everything that nobody asked for. As usual.

 

Boruto especially in the first chapter of the new manga is literally damage control. He gets an "uber-cool" redesign and an extra time skip that was unnecessary. AS USUAL. He becomes a mash-up of all the "cool" characters in the series. Awesome eye scar? Check!, Sword? Check! Crazy Super-Powers? Check! One Liner? Check! Yet behind all of it, all I see is a freaking cardboard cutout that needs this crap in order to hook a reader in. He can't be... I don't know? His own unique character? Not a mashup of what's the flavor of the month?

 

Sadara is a copy paste of Naruto as an Uchiha because there isn't anything new or original that the writers can do at the moment apart from what if an Uchiha wanted to become Hokage.

 

Mitsuki, especially from the one shot, just seems like he's going to be another completely broken character in terms of power level as well as another "edgy" Sasuke surrogate to keep character themes somewhat intact.

 

 

The pop pairings speak for themselves. Nobody cares. Here, have a kid.

 

 

“This is the last chapter of Naruto," Kishimoto said. "Once the last scene ends, it is over.”

 

http://www.idigitalt...new-york-481189

 

Oh and I can't forget the entire hook to the new series. Naruto is "probably" dead. Seeing as the entire series is focused around Boruto going: ME! ME! ME! He most likely is dead. There went my desire to even give the series a chance.

 

Just about the entire next-generation concept is absolutely overdone and unnecessary. It's damage control for each insult they hurled towards fans. Here's a ship-tease ending. Not Happy? Have a movie that has so much forced nostalgia that nobody with a sane mind would be able to enjoy it. "Tch, don't like that? Have Naruto's Inauguration but not really! Ha ha." "Okay, we realize you're really not happy with the way things are going right now...HERES A NEW MANGA! THE PROTAGONIST OF THE ORIGINAL STORY IS DEAD!" It's just an endless cycle of making things worse in order to make the thing before it seem better in comparison. It's an insult to just about every fan with a head on his/her shoulders.

 

I think that about hits everything that is wrong right now. Its painful to see this happen to a series that I followed since I was young. And from what I've seen, there is no stopping going down this hole. Right now, all I'm trying to see is the story I used to enjoy. But even then, it's impossible to not follow the newest thing coming out in the series. It's where the discussion is. I can say I don't like it. But it's obvious we can't sway other's opinions and thoughts right now. Or possibly ever.  At least there's still Road to Ninja, a movie which actually tried to keep some of the themes of the story intact.

 

All right, cutting it off here.

 

Some first post, Huh?

Edited by n7610, 10 September 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[db84x]

@ n7610

Manga have some different with anime thank for SP fan services, all thanks to Yuka Miyata.  Actually manga gave all pairing chance until last arc but some biased anime script who overly zealous with flat chest tsundere ruin it all.

[BlackBird19]

@ n7610

Manga have some different with anime thank for SP fan services, all thanks to Yuka Miyata.  Actually manga gave all pairing chance until last arc but some biased anime script who overly zealous with flat chest tsundere ruin it all.

Once again you prove your utter bias and show us that you took no time to read what n7610 wrote. Good job.

[db84x]

Once again you prove your utter bias and show us that you took no time to read what n7610 wrote. Good job.

 

Nope, most of us knew that anime is rubish.  While Boruto, most of fans complain it not follow orriginal style.

Edited by db84x, 10 September 2016 - 03:31 PM.

[Shadow1275]

@ n7610

Manga have some different with anime thank for SP fan services, all thanks to Yuka Miyata.  Actually manga gave all pairing chance until last arc but some biased anime script who overly zealous with flat chest tsundere ruin it all.

All Pairings had a Chance????

 

 

Please. SS was dead, even as late as 693 Sasuke still cared nothing for Sakura and stabbed her through the heart to emphasize this. And even after the confession and the hand holding Who did Naruto say was his girlfriend to his father? SAKURA. Even in that abomination the Last they had to genjutsu the f out of Naruto who was still interested in Sakura in order to get him to finally pay attention to Hinata. Which is why they had to genjutsu the F out him AND  have Sakura tell him that he ONLY LOVED HER FOR SASUKE.

 

 

And let's get one thing clear, I'm not angry I'm just bolding these points for emphasis but do you want to know the real reason why the Last was made? It was to destroy all the buildup that NS had in order to make NH seem more believable. And it still failed. Which is why this idea that any couple was fair game is bull sh it. They had to destroy NS in order to make NH and SS CANON. They had to retcon it away.

[db84x]

All Pairings had a Chance????

 

 

Please. SS was dead, even as late as 693 Sasuke still cared nothing for Sakura and stabbed her through the heart to emphasize this. And even after the confession and the hand holding Who did Naruto say was his girlfriend to his father? SAKURA. Even in that abomination the Last they had to genjutsu the f out of Naruto who was still interested in Sakura in order to get him to finally pay attention to Hinata. Which is why they had to genjutsu the F out him AND  have Sakura tell him that he ONLY LOVED HER FOR SASUKE.

 

 

And let's get one thing clear, I'm not angry I'm just bolding these points for emphasis but do you want to know the real reason why the Last was made? It was to destroy all the buildup that NS had in order to make NH seem more believable. And it still failed. Which is why this idea that any couple was fair game is bull sh it. They had to destroy NS in order to make NH and SS CANON. They had to retcon it away.

 

If you saw manga with NS glass, only NS have development and vice verse for NH and SS.  Btw it common in WSJ, to neutral while manga still ongoing while lean to most popular pair to the end.  While in anime (SP), it common to lean for flat chest tsundere heroine if there isn't any flat chest tsundere heroine they created it. 

 

Sakura anime version is widely revilled because destroy Sakura manga version, honestly if Yuka Miyata not change Sakura into her self insert fantasy (flat chest tsundere) maybe NS can became popular pair and cruised into canon.  Even Kishi amaze saw Sakura hatred himself because he always tried to made Sakura popular.

[Shadow1275]

 

If you saw manga with NS glass, only NS have development and vice verse for NH and SS.  Btw it common in WSJ, to neutral while manga still ongoing while lean to most popular pair to the end.  While in anime (SP), it common to lean for flat chest tsundere heroine if there isn't any flat chest tsundere heroine they created it. 

 

Sakura anime version is widely revilled because destroy Sakura manga version, honestly if Yuka Miyata not change Sakura into her self insert fantasy (flat chest tsundere) maybe NS can became popular pair and cruised into canon.  Even Kishi amaze saw Sakura hatred himself because he always tried to made Sakura popular.

It wasn't a NS glass though it was the Main glass. NH actually Hinata alone has only about 35 or so panels  in the entire manga. SS has even less panels and in part 2 completely vanishes until Sasgay returns. NS however not only has mutual scenes between the two (Ramen feeding scene for example), acknowledgement from other characters such as Yamato, Sai, Minato, Tsunade etc., Parallels out the wazoo etc. And most importantly it respects the source material. As early as chapter 3 Naruto's feelings for Sakura are introduced.

 

 

NH and SS destroy the characters and dance on the plot's ashes. They are the pairings who see through a crazy looking glass. Look at The Last or Naruto Gaiden. The Last ignores the  VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF NARUTO  with that stupid shadow clone flashback and destroys Narutos character. Gaiden fu rther wrecks Sakura and Sasuke's characters by showing that Sasuke is still a kitten who runs away and Sakura is still a fangirl who would be happy to have sex with him when he hasn't even KISSED HER.

 

 

 

NS happening would hav been better, but it would never hav fixed all of the problems. There were only two things left that were still good by 693: The pairings and the characters. 693 DESTROYED THE CHARACTERS and 699-700 PICKED THE WORST POSSIBLE PAIRINGS SPITTING ON THE ESTABLISHED STORY AND what really made the series great in the first place

[BlackBird19]

 

Nope, most of us knew that anime is rubish.  While Boruto, most of fans complain it not follow orriginal style.

We were talking about the story in general. Not the anime. Like I said, you don't seem to actually read what's being posted.

[Namaenash]

Hi n7610, welcome to H&E. Kudos to the post and observation! All points are well articulated, and sadly, that's the reality of this series.

I'd like to present my favorite quote before I start my long (and boring) opinion:  "in God we trust, all others bring data."

So, if anyone here is debating with the other parties (God forbid), NH/SS fandom, regarding which one is more popular, which one is bringing more money, blablabla, present them some data/facts, and only debate with them if and only if they can answer with data/facts. Otherwise, don't waste your time.


Myth: NH/SS was/is more popular, therefore it brings more economic values, hence the ending we were given in order for the new series to spin off.

Fact: Well, on what basis really? Where's the fact supporting it? Based on what demographic? In which part of this world?

The answer is, none of us know exactly. Nobody knows. Even the author and publisher who supposed to have the most comprehensive data and observations failed to made the right decision.


f("NH", "SS", "NS") = Strong first week sales, often topping up more than 1.5 million copies during Naruto's prime.

f("NH", "SS") = First week sales of 183k, with Boruto series.


That was hard facts. Obviously, I made that up, and I believe some statistician at the publisher would have a much comprehensive forecasting formula, but, let's make it simple for discussion sake.


Look back at Naruto volume sales history, and decide for yourself. All other things being equal (ceteris paribus), the only component that was removed in the new spin-off is "NS". The ninja system is still around, Naruto is still around, Sasuke is traveling (away from Konoha, much like large part of the original series), Kishimoto is the editor -he has full supervision on how the story is told, he even drew part of the first chapter. The only variable that was changed, was the pairing-front, in which NS is removed completely. Before anyone disagree, please give me a fact on what else has changed, manga-wise.


Why do you think the last volume of Naruto sold less than much of its previous volume? Why do you think Boruto Gaiden sold only around 600k in its first week? Why do you think Boruto manga sold only 183k in its first week?


If you're familiar with supply chain, forecasting and statistics, you'd know the answer already. In a supply chain system where everything is on stable equation; adding, removing or modifying variables will cause the system to find a new equilibrium.


The reason why Boruto Gaiden sold only 600k in its first week, is based on its previous volume sales (the last volume of Naruto). Similarly, the reason why Boruto manga only sold for 183k in its first week, is because its previous volume sales (Boruto Gaiden) was not that great. It's trending down, or in technical terms, it's trying to find its new equilibrium. The way printing industry works, is like many other manufacturing industries. You forecast your demand, print your copies and you'd hope there's not much returns from your channels.


Now, remember what I told you about Pareto Principle the other day? http://www.narusaku....138#entry917316


I'll rehash a bit of it.


Frankly, the notion of "Naruto series is counting on pairings-minded readers to keep it afloat" used to be a joke due to the toxic pairing wars. But as it turns out, to my opinion, it actually holds some degree of truth. It's based on one simple observation: a group in the overall Naruto fanbase is contributing to 80% of the manga sales. We don't know which group it is, but based on the events following through, I'm pretty much certain the group (the one contributing to 80% of sales volume, the one making Naruto franchise largely afloat) is/was NS (and fans enjoying good storyline).


Checkout the first week sales of the last few volume of Naruto (before the final volume), where you have NS/NH/SS. And then compare it against the new Boruto manga, where readers have been provided with NH/SS material. Unsurprisingly, around 80% drop (give or take).


Well, maybe, (no fact supporting this), it is true that NS was not popular around the world. Let's say hypothetically, it's only 20% of the whole world of Naruto fan. But what if, this 20% is largely based in Japan, where the manga is born, and where the most cash is earned. Wiping off this group, essentially killing the series, because the group gives a hypothetical 80% of the revenue from the manga alone.


Again, facts are there, and it's up to the interpretation. It's no surprise that, after The Last, where they emphasized a lot on NH and a bit of SS, there are literally close to zero NH/SS moments being positively depicted, following through. It's a damage control. Someone realized they've made a big big mistake, by wiping out the 80% of their income source... and they need to find a way this "New Era" project to see the light. Therefore you see the story does not elegantly fit and cohesive.



Myth: Naruto anime is still popular. It's the top anime on TV Tokyo in April 2015 - March 2016.
Fact: Japan broadcasting is not only TV Tokyo. One Piece, Dragon Ball, etc are handled by other broadcasting firm. Moreover, what else is on other top X of the top grossing anime in TV Tokyo? (hints: it's Gintama, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Yokai Watch; in other words, series that are targeted to a different group of audience). Oh, btw, Yokai Watch gave more gross profit than Naruto on the same period, although it is Japan-only marketing focus, hardly any merchandise outside Japan and more importantly, the anime only came out in 2014. Let that sink for you.



Myth: Naruto is targeted into kids and pre-teen.
Fact: Wrong on so many level. If someone tell you this, please advise them to go to Japan and live there for a while, or ask them where do they get their facts from. I spent over a decade there, Naruto is certainly not for kids. Kids anime/media is something like Pokemon, Doraemon, Anpanman, etc. You will never ever see any killings, or mention of killings in media targeted for kids in Japan. The moment it involves blood, killing, revenge, it goes to at least teenager. Just because some article in the internet says that according to certain interview, Kishi says its targeted for kids, does not suddenly become the single source of truth for its status and target audience.



Myth: Naruto is still very popular, the recent game become number 1 hit for PS4.
Fact: Guess what? Gamers are a different type of audience. They only care about the games. Nothing more, nothing less. I can guarantee you there will be only small fraction who buy the game, based on the manga. I don't have facts to support this, but based on my observations while I was there, these group of people do not care much about storyline, if it's a fighting game like Naruto. They only care about the gameplay. That's all. For that reason, I think popular games like Street Fighter, or Tekken are hardly have any background story (gamers in this forum, please let me know if this is true ). And yeah, Street Fighter and Tekken were very very popular back then (at least when I live there long time ago, you can see the ads everywhere when they launch a new title).

..and many more myth/fact that I want to tell in this one post. But, that'll be in another time.

Again, if someone challenge you about something, bring some facts in to support your argument, and request the counter party to provide facts to support their arguments. If they fail to do so, do not engage in a discussion with them. You're literally wasting your time, unproductively.

Happy long weekend y'all....

[Bail o' Lies]

 

It already run out content while fans already complaining about filler fest, wait winter for novel animation.  

One, they didn't need to end the anime and start a spin off to tell the Novels' plot lines. Instead of stalling with filler they could have made new story arcs after the end of the war to connect the anime/manga together with the novels instead of keeping them separate.

 

Two, they are not even doing all the the novels nor are they doing them in chronological order.

 

 

We were talking about the story in general. Not the anime. Like I said, you don't seem to actually read what's being posted.

I don't think he can actually read more then a single line of text, anymore and his brain just simple can't comprehend it.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 10 September 2016 - 06:24 PM.

[Yyubie]

They miscalculated those who read the manga online for free. And suddenly they got a lot of praise .... but weird .... where is the money ??? it's disappearing .... it's like hearing an extremely loud voice of a thousands .... billions of voice .... but they cannot see the body/the people, it's just an empty loud voice.

[DeathGodMack]

So apparently a narusaku family was shown in a German magazine.

http://thekiwisito.t...y-featured-in-a

.

[Luna]

Hi n7610, welcome to H&E. Kudos to the post and observation! All points are well articulated, and sadly, that's the reality of this series.

I'd like to present my favorite quote before I start my long (and boring) opinion:  "in God we trust, all others bring data."

So, if anyone here is debating with the other parties (God forbid), NH/SS fandom, regarding which one is more popular, which one is bringing more money, blablabla, present them some data/facts, and only debate with them if and only if they can answer with data/facts. Otherwise, don't waste your time.


Myth: NH/SS was/is more popular, therefore it brings more economic values, hence the ending we were given in order for the new series to spin off.

Fact: Well, on what basis really? Where's the fact supporting it? Based on what demographic? In which part of this world?

The answer is, none of us know exactly. Nobody knows. Even the author and publisher who supposed to have the most comprehensive data and observations failed to made the right decision.


f("NH", "SS", "NS") = Strong first week sales, often topping up more than 1.5 million copies during Naruto's prime.

f("NH", "SS") = First week sales of 183k, with Boruto series.


That was hard facts. Obviously, I made that up, and I believe some statistician at the publisher would have a much comprehensive forecasting formula, but, let's make it simple for discussion sake.


Look back at Naruto volume sales history, and decide for yourself. All other things being equal (ceteris paribus), the only component that was removed in the new spin-off is "NS". The ninja system is still around, Naruto is still around, Sasuke is traveling (away from Konoha, much like large part of the original series), Kishimoto is the editor -he has full supervision on how the story is told, he even drew part of the first chapter. The only variable that was changed, was the pairing-front, in which NS is removed completely. Before anyone disagree, please give me a fact on what else has changed, manga-wise.


Why do you think the last volume of Naruto sold less than much of its previous volume? Why do you think Boruto Gaiden sold only around 600k in its first week? Why do you think Boruto manga sold only 183k in its first week?


If you're familiar with supply chain, forecasting and statistics, you'd know the answer already. In a supply chain system where everything is on stable equation; adding, removing or modifying variables will cause the system to find a new equilibrium.


The reason why Boruto Gaiden sold only 600k in its first week, is based on its previous volume sales (the last volume of Naruto). Similarly, the reason why Boruto manga only sold for 183k in its first week, is because its previous volume sales (Boruto Gaiden) was not that great. It's trending down, or in technical terms, it's trying to find its new equilibrium. The way printing industry works, is like many other manufacturing industries. You forecast your demand, print your copies and you'd hope there's not much returns from your channels.


Now, remember what I told you about Pareto Principle the other day? http://www.narusaku....138#entry917316


I'll rehash a bit of it.


Frankly, the notion of "Naruto series is counting on pairings-minded readers to keep it afloat" used to be a joke due to the toxic pairing wars. But as it turns out, to my opinion, it actually holds some degree of truth. It's based on one simple observation: a group in the overall Naruto fanbase is contributing to 80% of the manga sales. We don't know which group it is, but based on the events following through, I'm pretty much certain the group (the one contributing to 80% of sales volume, the one making Naruto franchise largely afloat) is/was NS (and fans enjoying good storyline).


Checkout the first week sales of the last few volume of Naruto (before the final volume), where you have NS/NH/SS. And then compare it against the new Boruto manga, where readers have been provided with NH/SS material. Unsurprisingly, around 80% drop (give or take).


Well, maybe, (no fact supporting this), it is true that NS was not popular around the world. Let's say hypothetically, it's only 20% of the whole world of Naruto fan. But what if, this 20% is largely based in Japan, where the manga is born, and where the most cash is earned. Wiping off this group, essentially killing the series, because the group gives a hypothetical 80% of the revenue from the manga alone.


Again, facts are there, and it's up to the interpretation. It's no surprise that, after The Last, where they emphasized a lot on NH and a bit of SS, there are literally close to zero NH/SS moments being positively depicted, following through. It's a damage control. Someone realized they've made a big big mistake, by wiping out the 80% of their income source... and they need to find a way this "New Era" project to see the light. Therefore you see the story does not elegantly fit and cohesive.



Myth: Naruto anime is still popular. It's the top anime on TV Tokyo in April 2015 - March 2016.
Fact: Japan broadcasting is not only TV Tokyo. One Piece, Dragon Ball, etc are handled by other broadcasting firm. Moreover, what else is on other top X of the top grossing anime in TV Tokyo? (hints: it's Gintama, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Yokai Watch; in other words, series that are targeted to a different group of audience). Oh, btw, Yokai Watch gave more gross profit than Naruto on the same period, although it is Japan-only marketing focus, hardly any merchandise outside Japan and more importantly, the anime only came out in 2014. Let that sink for you.



Myth: Naruto is targeted into kids and pre-teen.
Fact: Wrong on so many level. If someone tell you this, please advise them to go to Japan and live there for a while, or ask them where do they get their facts from. I spent over a decade there, Naruto is certainly not for kids. Kids anime/media is something like Pokemon, Doraemon, Anpanman, etc. You will never ever see any killings, or mention of killings in media targeted for kids in Japan. The moment it involves blood, killing, revenge, it goes to at least teenager. Just because some article in the internet says that according to certain interview, Kishi says its targeted for kids, does not suddenly become the single source of truth for its status and target audience.



Myth: Naruto is still very popular, the recent game become number 1 hit for PS4.
Fact: Guess what? Gamers are a different type of audience. They only care about the games. Nothing more, nothing less. I can guarantee you there will be only small fraction who buy the game, based on the manga. I don't have facts to support this, but based on my observations while I was there, these group of people do not care much about storyline, if it's a fighting game like Naruto. They only care about the gameplay. That's all. For that reason, I think popular games like Street Fighter, or Tekken are hardly have any background story (gamers in this forum, please let me know if this is true ). And yeah, Street Fighter and Tekken were very very popular back then (at least when I live there long time ago, you can see the ads everywhere when they launch a new title).

..and many more myth/fact that I want to tell in this one post. But, that'll be in another time.

Again, if someone challenge you about something, bring some facts in to support your argument, and request the counter party to provide facts to support their arguments. If they fail to do so, do not engage in a discussion with them. You're literally wasting your time, unproductively.

Happy long weekend y'all....

 

Opps. Poor db84x

[db84x]

They miscalculated those who read the manga online for free. And suddenly they got a lot of praise .... but weird .... where is the money ??? it's disappearing .... it's like hearing an extremely loud voice of a thousands .... billions of voice .... but they cannot see the body/the people, it's just an empty loud voice.

 

Its still made money via games and merchandise, do Star War only rely on movie to made money ?

 

One, they didn't need to end the anime and start a spin off to tell the Novels' plot lines. Instead of stalling with filler they could have made new story arcs after the end of the war to connect the anime/manga together with the novels instead of keeping them separate.

 

Two, they are not even doing all the the novels nor are they doing them in chronological order.

 

 

I don't think he can actually read more then a single line of text, anymore and his brain just simple can't comprehend it.

 

Its still made money so SP unwilling to move on, if it don't generate money so why SP still continue Naruto. 

 

Hi n7610, welcome to H&E. Kudos to the post and observation! All points are well articulated, and sadly, that's the reality of this series.

I'd like to present my favorite quote before I start my long (and boring) opinion:  "in God we trust, all others bring data."

So, if anyone here is debating with the other parties (God forbid), NH/SS fandom, regarding which one is more popular, which one is bringing more money, blablabla, present them some data/facts, and only debate with them if and only if they can answer with data/facts. Otherwise, don't waste your time.


Myth: NH/SS was/is more popular, therefore it brings more economic values, hence the ending we were given in order for the new series to spin off.

Fact: Well, on what basis really? Where's the fact supporting it? Based on what demographic? In which part of this world?

The answer is, none of us know exactly. Nobody knows. Even the author and publisher who supposed to have the most comprehensive data and observations failed to made the right decision.


f("NH", "SS", "NS") = Strong first week sales, often topping up more than 1.5 million copies during Naruto's prime.

f("NH", "SS") = First week sales of 183k, with Boruto series.


That was hard facts. Obviously, I made that up, and I believe some statistician at the publisher would have a much comprehensive forecasting formula, but, let's make it simple for discussion sake.


Look back at Naruto volume sales history, and decide for yourself. All other things being equal (ceteris paribus), the only component that was removed in the new spin-off is "NS". The ninja system is still around, Naruto is still around, Sasuke is traveling (away from Konoha, much like large part of the original series), Kishimoto is the editor -he has full supervision on how the story is told, he even drew part of the first chapter. The only variable that was changed, was the pairing-front, in which NS is removed completely. Before anyone disagree, please give me a fact on what else has changed, manga-wise.


Why do you think the last volume of Naruto sold less than much of its previous volume? Why do you think Boruto Gaiden sold only around 600k in its first week? Why do you think Boruto manga sold only 183k in its first week?


If you're familiar with supply chain, forecasting and statistics, you'd know the answer already. In a supply chain system where everything is on stable equation; adding, removing or modifying variables will cause the system to find a new equilibrium.


The reason why Boruto Gaiden sold only 600k in its first week, is based on its previous volume sales (the last volume of Naruto). Similarly, the reason why Boruto manga only sold for 183k in its first week, is because its previous volume sales (Boruto Gaiden) was not that great. It's trending down, or in technical terms, it's trying to find its new equilibrium. The way printing industry works, is like many other manufacturing industries. You forecast your demand, print your copies and you'd hope there's not much returns from your channels.


Now, remember what I told you about Pareto Principle the other day? http://www.narusaku....138#entry917316


I'll rehash a bit of it.


Frankly, the notion of "Naruto series is counting on pairings-minded readers to keep it afloat" used to be a joke due to the toxic pairing wars. But as it turns out, to my opinion, it actually holds some degree of truth. It's based on one simple observation: a group in the overall Naruto fanbase is contributing to 80% of the manga sales. We don't know which group it is, but based on the events following through, I'm pretty much certain the group (the one contributing to 80% of sales volume, the one making Naruto franchise largely afloat) is/was NS (and fans enjoying good storyline).


Checkout the first week sales of the last few volume of Naruto (before the final volume), where you have NS/NH/SS. And then compare it against the new Boruto manga, where readers have been provided with NH/SS material. Unsurprisingly, around 80% drop (give or take).


Well, maybe, (no fact supporting this), it is true that NS was not popular around the world. Let's say hypothetically, it's only 20% of the whole world of Naruto fan. But what if, this 20% is largely based in Japan, where the manga is born, and where the most cash is earned. Wiping off this group, essentially killing the series, because the group gives a hypothetical 80% of the revenue from the manga alone.


Again, facts are there, and it's up to the interpretation. It's no surprise that, after The Last, where they emphasized a lot on NH and a bit of SS, there are literally close to zero NH/SS moments being positively depicted, following through. It's a damage control. Someone realized they've made a big big mistake, by wiping out the 80% of their income source... and they need to find a way this "New Era" project to see the light. Therefore you see the story does not elegantly fit and cohesive.



Myth: Naruto anime is still popular. It's the top anime on TV Tokyo in April 2015 - March 2016.
Fact: Japan broadcasting is not only TV Tokyo. One Piece, Dragon Ball, etc are handled by other broadcasting firm. Moreover, what else is on other top X of the top grossing anime in TV Tokyo? (hints: it's Gintama, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Yokai Watch; in other words, series that are targeted to a different group of audience). Oh, btw, Yokai Watch gave more gross profit than Naruto on the same period, although it is Japan-only marketing focus, hardly any merchandise outside Japan and more importantly, the anime only came out in 2014. Let that sink for you.



Myth: Naruto is targeted into kids and pre-teen.
Fact: Wrong on so many level. If someone tell you this, please advise them to go to Japan and live there for a while, or ask them where do they get their facts from. I spent over a decade there, Naruto is certainly not for kids. Kids anime/media is something like Pokemon, Doraemon, Anpanman, etc. You will never ever see any killings, or mention of killings in media targeted for kids in Japan. The moment it involves blood, killing, revenge, it goes to at least teenager. Just because some article in the internet says that according to certain interview, Kishi says its targeted for kids, does not suddenly become the single source of truth for its status and target audience.



Myth: Naruto is still very popular, the recent game become number 1 hit for PS4.
Fact: Guess what? Gamers are a different type of audience. They only care about the games. Nothing more, nothing less. I can guarantee you there will be only small fraction who buy the game, based on the manga. I don't have facts to support this, but based on my observations while I was there, these group of people do not care much about storyline, if it's a fighting game like Naruto. They only care about the gameplay. That's all. For that reason, I think popular games like Street Fighter, or Tekken are hardly have any background story (gamers in this forum, please let me know if this is true ). And yeah, Street Fighter and Tekken were very very popular back then (at least when I live there long time ago, you can see the ads everywhere when they launch a new title).

..and many more myth/fact that I want to tell in this one post. But, that'll be in another time.

Again, if someone challenge you about something, bring some facts in to support your argument, and request the counter party to provide facts to support their arguments. If they fail to do so, do not engage in a discussion with them. You're literally wasting your time, unproductively.

Happy long weekend y'all....

 

Naruto franchise is still made a lot of money so Shuheisha and SP still unwilling it to let go despite Kishi already tired with it.  Just face it that canon Naruto isn't your taste, support fellow shipper to made credible AU is more useful that made wall of post like this

 

We were talking about the story in general. Not the anime. Like I said, you don't seem to actually read what's being posted.

Manga is average but anime is rubish, all of us knew it

 

It wasn't a NS glass though it was the Main glass. NH actually Hinata alone has only about 35 or so panels  in the entire manga. SS has even less panels and in part 2 completely vanishes until Sasgay returns. NS however not only has mutual scenes between the two (Ramen feeding scene for example), acknowledgement from other characters such as Yamato, Sai, Minato, Tsunade etc., Parallels out the wazoo etc. And most importantly it respects the source material. As early as chapter 3 Naruto's feelings for Sakura are introduced.

 

 

NH and SS destroy the characters and dance on the plot's ashes. They are the pairings who see through a crazy looking glass. Look at The Last or Naruto Gaiden. The Last ignores the  VERY FIRST CHAPTER OF NARUTO  with that stupid shadow clone flashback and destroys Narutos character. Gaiden fu rther wrecks Sakura and Sasuke's characters by showing that Sasuke is still a kitten who runs away and Sakura is still a fangirl who would be happy to have sex with him when he hasn't even KISSED HER.

 

 

 

NS happening would hav been better, but it would never hav fixed all of the problems. There were only two things left that were still good by 693: The pairings and the characters. 693 DESTROYED THE CHARACTERS and 699-700 PICKED THE WORST POSSIBLE PAIRINGS SPITTING ON THE ESTABLISHED STORY AND what really made the series great in the first place

 

Its useless using shipping google analyze to debate, we won't meet the agreement

[db84x]

 

Opps. Poor db84x

 

It already around for years anyway, if fellow NS like Namaenash use his/her wall post epic skill to help NS fan-fic maker like Konoha I believe credible NS AU within grasp.

Edited by db84x, 11 September 2016 - 04:39 AM.