31711 replies to this topic

[TheFirstEvil100]

I wouldn't say they died of old age, just they don't work there anymore, I mean super saiyan's debut chapter was in 1991 after all(funny because that was the year I was born, so both the sonic series and goku's super form are my age lol) they'd probably be in their 50s or 60s I guess, maybe older.

but yeah definitely if they still worked there this mess probably wouldn't happen, since all the old shonens managed by them put naruto to shame...

True on that I mean Super did start out bad and even the creator of DB was not happy with that they had done, but if we look at the snall moments ones that show us Vegeta with his family and even baby Pan and just how damn cute she is right now, heck she is beating up Trunks lol and now with the Black Goku arc its getting better all the time.

 

unlike Naruto which lets face it only Hinata fans watch it so they can dream about her and find way to pick on Sakura as well.

[T XD]

And those NH extremists just go completely silent when you bring up the fact that, by their logic using the whole "Naruto only loved Sakura because of his rivalry with Sasuke" crap, doesn't that also mean that Naruto only suddenly started "loving" Hinata out of a feeling of rivalry with Toneri?

That would also further explain why Naruto is so miserable being married to her afterwards, with no "rival" around trying to "win her", there is no point in being with her, but now he's stuck with her regardless/.

If it was out of rivalry, we would have seen just few to some at maximum Naruto ----> Sakura moments that Naruto would want to attract her for the rivalry reason.

That's not the case in the manga. We have facts and moments from both characters towards each other. Half of them is enough to debunk the argument... And it should be from a long time ago

[db84x]

If it was out of rivalry, we would have seen just few to some at maximum Naruto ----> Sakura moments that Naruto would want to attract her for the rivalry reason.
That's not the case in the manga. We have facts and moments from both characters towards each other. Half of them is enough to debunk the argument... And it should be from a long time ago

That scene will kick Naruto out from WSJ upper rank, it already tried in anime filler and the audience hate it.

[BlackBird19]

That scene will kick Naruto out from WSJ upper rank, it already tried in anime filler and the audience hate it.

You still don't get how the ToC works do you? Oh well.

[db84x]

You still don't get how the ToC works do you? Oh well.

 

Honestly do you think without pairing wars, Naruto still on upper rank ?

[Bail o' Lies]

Honestly do you think without pairing wars, Naruto still on in upper ranks?

From the beginning of Naruto till the Pein arc (during yahagi tenure as editors) the pairings were never in conflict and beyond NS and SS (with the manga clearly favoring NS) were never in focus in the story. During that time Naruto was at its prime had it highest sales and was a huge international seller. The Pein arc onwards (when yahagi left and kishimoto had about of dozen different editors over the course of three story arcs)  had increasing focus on the uchiha that over shadow almost every other story element, a long draining war arc, and the sudden relevancy of hinata leading a sudden increase in focus on the pairing and a increase in the pairing conflicts of NS/SK vs nH/SS. During that time Naruto lost most of its international relevancy becoming very unpopular frequently mocked, lost a large majority of its fans, kishimoto became tired with the series during this time, he refused to do the sequel, Naruto got the nickname "worst scumbag," hinata got the nickname "horrible sister," the pairing nH is called "the pairing of death," and so on.

 

So the answer is the "pairing wars" are what led to Naruto's decline. Especially with how toxic nH became once they thought their pairing started actually having a shot.

 

Also here is an important thing to remember while you're trying to justify nH ending to yourself by saying Naruto is "still in the upper ranks." Which I doubt especially recently after Boruto showing. It used to be One Piece main rival. The biggest manga in Japan it used to be neck and neck competing against it.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 27 August 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[db84x]

From the beginning of Naruto till the Pein arc (during yahagi tenure as editors) the pairings were never in conflict and beyond NS and SS (with the manga clearly favoring NS) were never in focus in the story. During that time Naruto was at its prime had it highest sales and was a huge international seller. The Pein arc onwards (when yahagi left and kishimoto had about of dozen different editors over the course of three story arcs)  had increasing focus on the uchiha that over shadow almost every other story element, a long draining war arc, and the sudden relevancy of hinata leading a sudden increase in focus on the pairing and a increase in the pairing conflicts of NS/SK vs nH/SS. During that time Naruto lost most of its international relevancy becoming very unpopular frequently mocked, lost a large majority of its fans, kishimoto became tired with the series during this time, he refused to do the sequel, Naruto got the nickname "worst scumbag," hinata got the nickname "horrible sister," the pairing nH is called "the pairing of death," and so on.
 
So the answer is the "pairing wars" are what led to Naruto's decline. Especially with how toxic nH became once they thought their pairing started actually having a shot.
 
Also here is an important thing to remember while you're trying to justify nH ending to yourself by saying Naruto is "still in the upper ranks." Which I doubt especially recently after Boruto showing. It used to be One Piece main rival. The biggest manga in Japan it used to be neck and neck competing against it.

Do you actually knew how Shuheisha work ?

And those NH extremists just go completely silent when you bring up the fact that, by their logic using the whole "Naruto only loved Sakura because of his rivalry with Sasuke" crap, doesn't that also mean that Naruto only suddenly started "loving" Hinata out of a feeling of rivalry with Toneri?

That would also further explain why Naruto is so miserable being married to her afterwards, with no "rival" around trying to "win her", there is no point in being with her, but now he's stuck with her regardless/.

lets just agree to disagree since different shipping google will always led different intrepetation.

Edited by db84x, 27 August 2016 - 07:20 PM.

[T XD]

That scene will kick Naruto out from WSJ upper rank, it already tried in anime filler and the audience hate it.

You said it yourself; It was in the upper rank and you see afterwards the manga got declined and lost many of it fans especially more after it finished because of incoherence that doesn't represent a character.
 
When someone tells you a story and you see that it ended things incoherently, at least you won't take that person seriously cause you didn't see anything that matches.

 

Honestly do you think without pairing wars, Naruto still on upper rank ?

So you see why it ended like that having Kishimoto taken the favor for fans that likes NH outside Japan who can represent the majority of whom will continue to read it.

Edited by T XD, 27 August 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

True on that I mean Super did start out bad and even the creator of DB was not happy with that they had done, but if we look at the snall moments ones that show us Vegeta with his family and even baby Pan and just how damn cute she is right now, heck she is beating up Trunks lol and now with the Black Goku arc its getting better all the time.

 

unlike Naruto which lets face it only Hinata fans watch it so they can dream about her and find way to pick on Sakura as well.

Very true on that still waiting them to drop Naruto since the anime is dragging and nothing is happening in the Bolt manga.

[VanitasDS76491]

I think that people back then woulod have all been like WTF I mean I think if that happened akira toriyama would be like this. "What the kitten was I smocking when I came up with this kitten." I mean with DB evil is evil end of story something Naruto fails at big time so much so Kishi keeps trying to say how Sasuke had it so bad and we need to feel sorry for him.

 

That is true man I mean think of it like this and I want to ask you too if Sasuke killed Videl do you think Gohan would sit back and just forgive him for killing the woman that he loves?

 

Well the times we see him in hell was only Filler and never happened and With Trunks well that was just bad ass the way Frieza was cut in half and he killed King Cold without even letting him get away.

 

Got to give it to Trunks that he is far more bad ass than Naruto and knew when to Kill someone that wanted to hurt people unlike the Last scumbag who wanted to let all evil people live.

You're right on that. Honestly i'm waiting for everything wrong thing naruto has done to bite him in the ass and give him the consequences he and Sasuke deserver and Hinata for that matter too. Gohan would flip his kitten if Sasuke did that like with what spopovich did to videl when she fought him. Frieza is not in any way sympathetic at all nor is Sasuke. The only Naruto villains that are sympathetic are Nagato and Konan and possibly Itachi. Dude Mr. Freeze from Batman the Animated Series is infinitely more sympathetic than any one in Naruto. Just watch Heart of Ice to see that.  Trunks was the best part of Dragon Ball Z in fact the stuff with Trunks and Cell's arc is my favorite in all of Dragon Ball. Does Naruto not believe morel gray area's and black and white. Or he's a kitten Objectives like how Ted Kord was made to be. Naruto letting all the evil people live "This is going to lead to a bunch of deaths." Hell Sasuke could pull a Shou Tucker from Full Metal Alchemist were Sasuke turns Sarada into a monster like Shou's daughter and Naruto would let Sasuke get away with it.   

[VanitasDS76491]

yu yu hakusho has a better ending than naruto and was better written, and I found something else naruto ripped off besides turning hei's jagan eye into the sharingan when watching yu yu hakusho with my brother today, behold:

 

 

 

I don't know how to feel about this....

Oh I agree that Yu Yu Hakusho's ending was better and it actually brought finaley to the characters also Toguro and Sensei outdo any Naruto villain. Sasuke is just a lame rip off of Vegeta and Hiei both of whom could kick Sasuke's ass which I'm still waiting for one of those two to do it.

[VanitasDS76491]

sora and riku, goku and vegeta, yusuke and kuwabara, yugi and joey, all rivalry, bromance, or both, all done better than this and more believable. oops, almost forgot one, taichi and yamato from digimon.

 

and as narusaku fan in kentucky has said, sora and riku is the same thing as naruto and sasuke, but done so better it makes naruto's writing look like garbage. and people dare to call the last a disney like movie when even disney did a better job than naruto....

Agreed on those especially the digimon one with Tai and Matt that was done way better in the first season and guess what matt got consequences for what he did, hell all those examples got some consequences in some form. But no Sasuke got nothing. Still waiting for someone who lost a loved one cause of Sasuke calls Naruto out on his kitten like that one woman in the Captain America Civil War movie did with Tony. Also Cap and Ironman still better friends than Naruto and Sasuke. Also I keep saying that Sora and Riku thing too. Agreed Disney probably could do a better job with the last but given how bad the story was it might be tough. Here's some more examples of better rivalry and bromances, Snake and Otacon, Axel and Roxas, Price and Soap, Mason and Woods, Koji and Takuya, Marcus and Thomas, Ichigo and Grimmjow or Renji, Jason and Tommy, Wes and Eric, Jack and Sky, Casey and Jarrod, Scott and Dillon, Superman and Batman,  

[VanitasDS76491]

Yep cause Kishi is a dumb ass who does not see how bad it is all he cared about was making his lover Sasuke looking call and trying to make all the readers feel so sorry for him, hell just look at all the Sasuke fans they say they feel so sorry for Sasuke and how we shoud pity him and he should have been let off for all that he had done, and what is worse they make Sakura out to be worse than she is.

 

But I agree Naruto is also to blame as he kept thinking that Sasuke was his friend someone should have told Naruto that Friends don't try to kill you and they look out for each other, I mean come on Naruto is more stupid then Goku,

 

I mean I said it before man Naruto in any other show he would be dead as the bad guys would kill him.

Oh, hell yes Naruto is so to blame for this too. Sora from Kingdom Hearts isn't even that dumb and keep in mind this kid has gotten angry and killed before while saving his friend, though I don't think Riku really wanted to kill Sora just get him out of the way.

 

I feel like that plan with Sasuke failed miserably since I think more people hate Sasuke than like him. I would have dropped Naruto and not cared if Sasuke actually did become Hokage at the end of the series proving their is no justice when a psychopath who is also a traitor and murder gets becomes president of the whole village. I'm with Spoony on why everyone always puts clearly evil people in a position of power like with Danzo.

 

Put Naruto in the Last of Us see how long he lasts their or the zombie apocalypse.   

[VanitasDS76491]

yu yu hakusho has a better ending than naruto and was better written, and I found something else naruto ripped off besides turning hei's jagan eye into the sharingan when watching yu yu hakusho with my brother today, behold:

 

 

 

I don't know how to feel about this....

again proof that Kishi is a hack who can't up anything original and has to rip things off that better than his crap.

[Bail o' Lies]

Do you actually knew how Shuheisha work?

"Do you actually know how Shueisha works?"

 

I assume you talking about the ToC rankings.

 

Here is an important thing to understand. "Shueisha is a business, and a business is in the business of making money." How they make money is by magazine and volume sales. Then using those sales number to convince other companies to make products based on their mangas such as anime or video games. So they can make even more money. The rankings are there to see how popular manga are but more importantly manga early in their run that are just starting out. For early manga the ranking are very important because they show how much interest the readers have in it and signal to Shueisha that they should keep this manga going for awhile to see how it does in its volumes sales. But after it settles in what important then is the volume sales because it doesn't matter if something has been in the bottom ranking for years like bleach or love-to-ru was. There volumes sold well so they got to stay. Love to ru has even had several spin offs. Hell from what I understand the executive at Shueisha hated Kubo but his series sold well enough. That they allowed his manga to continue on for years after it hit the bottom of the rankings. By that same logic just because something is rating high in those rankings for years but it volumes sell poorly won't save it from being cancel. Granted that is much more rare as far as I know.

 

Now on to Bolt. Since Boruto is a "one chapter a month" series in a weekly magazine. It doesn't have the ability to stay in the ranking often of enough for the weekly rankings to be of use (since it can only be in there once a month even if it gets in there) to gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep Boruto going or just cancel it. Which is why they had that 3 chapter volume released this month because they were using that to try and gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep the series going. I have never heard of a three chapter volume manga they are always between 7-10 chapters.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 28 August 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

VanitasDS76491... Please. Use. The. Multi-quote. Button. If you are going through several of other people post and agreeing with/adding to/commenting on them.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 27 August 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[Yyubie]

Jesus Christ , some people don't want to use multi quote feature just to get as many post as they can to get higher rank fast, talk about greedy people ...

[TheFirstEvil100]

"Do you actually know how Shueisha works?"

 

I assume you talking about the ToC rankings.

 

Here is an important thing to understand. "Shueisha is a business, and a business is in the business of making money." How they make money is by magazine and volume sales. Then using those sales number to convince other companies to make produces based on their mangas such as anime or video games. So they can make even more money. The rankings are there to see how popular manga are but more importantly manga early in their run that are just starting out. For early manga the ranking are very important because they show how much interest the readers have in it and signal to Shueisha that they should keep this manga going for awhile to see how it does in its volumes sales. But after it settles in what important then is the volume sales because it doesn't matter if something has been in the bottom ranking for years like bleach or love-to-ru was. There volumes sold well so they got to stay. Love to ru has even had several spin offs. Hell from what I understand the executive at Shueisha hated Kubo but his series sold well enough. That they allowed his manga to continue on for years after it hit the bottom of the rankings. By that same logic just because something is rating high in those rankings for years but it volumes sell poorly won't save it from being cancel. Granted that is much more rare as far as I know.

 

Now on to Bolt. Since Boruto is a "one chapter a month" series in a weekly magazine. It doesn't have the ability to stay in the ranking often of enough for the weekly rankings to be of use (since it can only be in there once a month even if it gets in there) to gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep Boruto going or just cancel it. Which is why they had that 3 chapter volume released this month because they were using that to try and gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep the series going. I have never heard of a three chapter volume manga they are always between 7-10 chapters.

So Bolt and Naruto may die then?

 

Why do I get the feeling that if this does happen then NH fans will once again blame us, I mean I know I should not be worried but I just have a feeling they will blame the NaruSaku/anti-enders for this cause we are as they love to say salty. When the fact is we don't care I mean we have all moved on to better stories that can be done in Manga and Anime as well Once Piece is still going strong but me I have no idea if Shueisha does that or not I mean they are not the only ones who does Manga in Japan.

 

But here is the thing if One Piece is published somwhere else then we know Shueisha is to blame for all the bad Manga that is going on but I'm not sure right now can someone tell me this please.

Edited by TheFirstEvil100, 28 August 2016 - 12:17 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

So Bolt and Naruto may die then?

 

Why do I get the feeling that if this does happen then NH fans will once again blame us, I mean I know I should not be worried but I just have a feeling they will blame the NaruSaku/anti-enders for this cause we are as they love to say salty. When the fact is we don't care I mean we have all moved on to better stories that can be done in Manga and Anime as well Once Piece is still going strong but me I have no idea if Shueisha does that or not I mean they are not the only ones who does Manga in Japan.

 

But here is the thing if One Piece is published somwhere else then we know Shueisha is to blame for all the bad Manga that is going on but I'm not sure right now can someone tell me this please.

One Piece is in the same magazine as Bleach and Naruto same publisher same potential editors. The difference between any other manga and one piece is Oda knows where he going and what he wants to do with his story, and he is number one in Japan and has been for years being one of their two moneymakers. Any editor that is stupid enough to interfere with that moneymaker that could lead to a decrease in sales is gone.

 

For Naruto the new editors started out as "innocent suggestion" and did in theory have backing for their idea that replacing hinata would be profitable. Since Naruto strongest factor was it was their international big seller and if they say that the largest international faction of the fanbase is nH -it never was and even when the fanbase had been hollowed to almost none existence that still isn't the case it was just that they were the most vocal part- then they should be targeting it to make sure they get the maximum profits. The decline of Naruto is the result of it because they didn't actually look at the actual numbers and just looked at what was the most the vocal part.

 

Of course they are spoiled brat that have never taken responsibility for anything in their lives. They will blame us because they can never be wrong at anything.So any of there wrong doing they just deflect and blame on us. Look at db they blame the NS for the poor reputation of the Naruto fanbase despite the fact that nH is the most vocal and aggressive faction of the fanbase. So if some one where to have someone constantly talking about Naruto other then to just their friends it would probably be them. And they are just that toxic that they made many people sick of Naruto.

 

Also db basically only has like three arguments. They respect kishimoto "authorial intent" to try and make themselves seem morally superior to us. Which they seem to use less often since it obvious by this point kishimoto did not intended this ending cause if he did he would be working on Boruto beyond just the editor "position" and not be trying to desperate distance himself from it. Then they go for the do you even understand Shueisha or the ToC rankings trying to imply we don't understand business or economics. Which they clearly don't if they think popularity is more important to a business then its products ability to make money. And then if both those fail they just go "it for kids/of course the story is crap/they are just characters" clearly trying to dismiss our arguments because they can't rebut them so they just try to dismiss them as unimportant. Which makes them feel better because for once they feel like they are the adult in the room.

 

Edit: Sorry they has a fourth which I forgotten about because it is so pathetic. Where they are throwing/posting/citing the general rules over and over again. Which is the same as number three as well as it is a hissy fit.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 29 August 2016 - 06:52 PM.

[db84x]

You said it yourself; It was in the upper rank and you see afterwards the manga got declined and lost many of it fans especially more after it finished because of incoherence that doesn't represent a character.
 
When someone tells you a story and you see that it ended things incoherently, at least you won't take that person seriously cause you didn't see anything that matches.

 

So you see why it ended like that having Kishimoto taken the favor for fans that likes NH outside Japan who can represent the majority of whom will continue to read it.

 

Just remind that anime will continue for long time since a lot of people still want it continue, don't worry about decline since there a lot of fans still on fandom.  Loosing NS is insignificant since NS well known love made fuss in fandom and made other fans felt uneasy. 

 

Not all NS like that but too bad the loudest of NS fans tend saw by fandom represent all of NS

 

 

"Do you actually know how Shueisha works?"

 

I assume you talking about the ToC rankings.

 

Here is an important thing to understand. "Shueisha is a business, and a business is in the business of making money." How they make money is by magazine and volume sales. Then using those sales number to convince other companies to make products based on their mangas such as anime or video games. So they can make even more money. The rankings are there to see how popular manga are but more importantly manga early in their run that are just starting out. For early manga the ranking are very important because they show how much interest the readers have in it and signal to Shueisha that they should keep this manga going for awhile to see how it does in its volumes sales. But after it settles in what important then is the volume sales because it doesn't matter if something has been in the bottom ranking for years like bleach or love-to-ru was. There volumes sold well so they got to stay. Love to ru has even had several spin offs. Hell from what I understand the executive at Shueisha hated Kubo but his series sold well enough. That they allowed his manga to continue on for years after it hit the bottom of the rankings. By that same logic just because something is rating high in those rankings for years but it volumes sell poorly won't save it from being cancel. Granted that is much more rare as far as I know.

 

Now on to Bolt. Since Boruto is a "one chapter a month" series in a weekly magazine. It doesn't have the ability to stay in the ranking often of enough for the weekly rankings to be of use (since it can only be in there once a month even if it gets in there) to gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep Boruto going or just cancel it. Which is why they had that 3 chapter volume released this month because they were using that to try and gauge its popularity properly. To see if they should keep the series going. I have never heard of a three chapter volume manga they are always between 7-10 chapters.

 

Based of ToC its still got upper rank till the end (chap 700 is no.1), anime still going around for years.  I agree that Naruto story not really god but a lot of people still love it.