31711 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

No, SP are looking for another series they could make profits off of.

 

As for Naruto SP has too close a tie to Shueisha to just outright cancel Naruto. Most of SP anime are based off Shueisha series. So instead they are "finishing" Naruto this year. Then they will do the novels next year, and then they will look at Boruto's volume sales (and if they are the same or lower then they are now) they will tell Shueisha "its potential profit are not enough to risk spending resources on an anime."  Once SP refuses to do Boruto that is going to look bad. SP once again has very close ties to Shueisha, it has done or been involved in every Naruto related product for the past fourteen years. Once the refuse to do the anime Shueisha can not go to another studio to do a Boruto anime without losing face.

 

The thing is everything since the backlash started and they realized the western nH fans weren't worth that much, all Shueisha  has been doing is trying to save face for their executive meddling mistake. Once SP refuses to do the anime they can't go to another studio because that would make them lose face. So instead what they are more likely to do is to order Ikemoto, Kishimoto, and Kodachi to end the series a quickly as possible. Because without an anime it won't make as much profits could. Which means it taking up space in there magazine that could be filled by another manga that could get an anime and make them profits. Then they will have them do interview explaining why they are ending the manga so soon. It would be face saving BS of course.

 

If this is the case Boruto manga life expectancy is about 2 to 3 years. If what I am guessing is correct and it doesn't somehow change it luck around.

 

I wonder how the Japanese are reacting?

 

So that means SP no longer cares (just like Kishi) if they want a new series. No wonders they have been inserting some NS for the past year in the fillers and whenever and airing kitten fillers. They want to demoralize the anime that way it gives them less chance to animate any Naruto products after animating the LN. With the schedule in mind, that pretty much confirms that there will be no alternate ending in the anime, due to Shueisha's stubbornness to let go of Boruto and his generation for a better alternate ending. Depending how profound SP intends to self insert NS further into the canon story line will have a significant impact on the franchise and further more trashes the end pairings. While Shuiesha (Kishi no longer cares)  has the final saying how the anime's ending, SP can do whatever the to showcase the upcoming conclusion that never took place in the manga,

 

Although they are very close to Shuiesha, it's expected that they won't go fully out with the NS bombardment. If they really want to. The best episode to display that is chapter  693. Retcon that chapter with has Sakura's insight on finally having her come to terms with her feelings with Naruto being in a romantic light, using Kishi's fiasco comments during TL interview that Naruto and Sakura saw each other in a romantic light after chapter 700. Further explains why she regressed back to a Sasuke fan girl (which was never explained in the manga) was an act and attempt to have Naruto move on from her because shay might feel that she was undeserving both of Naruto devotion and affection towards her. And all this leads to why Sasuke is never around to stay with his family they he might suspect or knows that Sakura does not love him and only just using him. And finally explains why Naruto got with HInata because he thought settling for HInata would purged his remaining romantic feelings that he has for Sakura. Unfortunately, over the years, it backfires and now he's force to endure his marriage with Hinata. That will be more than enough to fill in the gasp that both the previous manga failed to do.

 

It's just theoretical.

Edited by Konoha'sCrimsonFox, 11 August 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[NeonRanger]

Like I said I expected this. 

 

It's doing so "poorly" because: 1) the first 3-4 volumes are a rehash of the movie; to have the real sales we need to wait around volume 4 or 5.

 

2) It's not made by Kishi. Jump Festa 2016, people were excited for the new series until they found out it wasn't by Kishi. After that the crowd was more skeptical than celebratory. People prefer the original. Unless Kishi physically comes back to the Naruto franchise, of course it's going to die off sooner. You can go on Tumblr, a lot of the pro-ending aren't really as invested unless Kishi comes back. 

 

But overall, the sales are decent enough to continue the series. It really depends on the money spent to promote the series rather than actual sales for it to "cancel". It's like the rumors it's of Bleach being "canceled"; it averages about 350,000-400,000 which is really good  considering the lack of promotion. It all depends on budget, or so far we have nothing.

 

Its a good thing and a bad thing if Boruto gets canceled. Good: no dealing with any more Naruto. Bad: This fandom will die sooner than expected. There will be nothing more to look forward to anymore, whether to make fun of or heavily critique. A fandom can only stay alive for a period of time when there is nothing to talk about. 

 

Anyway, Shueisha is the one looking for a new series. This is only further confirmation that Kishimoto is done; all he needs to say is that the Boruto series isn't written by him and move on. 

Edited by NeonRanger, 11 August 2016 - 12:19 PM.

[Namaenash]

183K first week sales? That's a major flop of a legendary manga franchise. That's what happen as what everyone said that they rehashed too much of the Boruto film.
 
 
So they are intentionally trying to quit the anime and passed on the dump to another company?

A major flop it is, if we compare it against over 1 million copies in the first week of sales when Naruto was on its peak.

What a waste. And the worst part is all of this is for the sake of Hinata, nH and SS.

I recall I've posted something about pareto principle sometimes back.

http://www.narusaku....=14963&page=212

And it's no surprise that the principles hold true for Naruto franchise: 20% of its fans were contributing to 80% of its sales.

And who are those 20%? Well, based on the numbers, they're the ones not satisfied with the ending. In other words, NS and other true Naruto fans. Those who got nothing, but getting ridiculed by the author and SP.

The empirical evidence is clear: the numbers dropped by roughly close to 80% with the death of NS (and other good quality of storytelling).

Just because someone say nH and SS is popular, it doesn't warrant successful outcome. Moreover if the source of opinion is from the Internet. God forbid, Internet forums are probably one of the worst data source a market analyser could get. Do you want to know how much is the supporters of nH and SS? Well, there you go. Based on the boruto first week sales, it's not that much.

Even if you have a convincing polling number to kill NS, for the sake of nH and SS, it will not enough. Statistics 101: correlation does not imply causation.

There's no guarantee a winner in a polling is contributing to the bottom line.

Today, Kishi, SP, Sueisha and all Naruto production team learn it the hard way. No matter how hard one tried to hide it, twist it, massage it, whatsoever, the fact is clear: they've made a big mistake going with nH and SS ending.

And the worst part is, this number is the measurements they count based on sales to distribution channels. It's not necessarily the "end" number that gets to customers. That's how printing industry works folks. You estimate based on retailers demand and past trends, print your magazine, distribute it across the country and you'd be hoping that at least the return rate from retailers is not more than 20% of your production.

Lessons learned the hard way for Kishi.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It looks like the anime is ending at the big 700 (original + shippuuden). How cute...That means the final fight will get stretched out. Cool, it's just what I need, the major disappointing final battle to be stretched out...

[NeonRanger]

A major flop it is, if we compare it against over 1 million copies in the first week of sales when Naruto was on its peak.

What a waste. And the worst part is all of this is for the sake of Hinata, nH and SS.

I recall I've posted something about pareto principle sometimes back.

http://www.narusaku....=14963&page=212

And it's no surprise that the principles hold true for Naruto franchise: 20% of its fans were contributing to 80% of its sales.

And who are those 20%? Well, based on the numbers, they're the ones not satisfied with the ending. In other words, NS and other true Naruto fans. Those who got nothing, but getting ridiculed by the author and SP.

The empirical evidence is clear: the numbers dropped by roughly close to 80% with the death of NS (and other good quality of storytelling).

Just because someone say nH and SS is popular, it doesn't warrant successful outcome. Moreover if the source of opinion is from the Internet. God forbid, Internet forums are probably one of the worst data source a market analyser could get. Do you want to know how much is the supporters of nH and SS? Well, there you go. Based on the boruto first week sales, it's not that much.

Even if you have a convincing polling number to kill NS, for the sake of nH and SS, it will not enough. Statistics 101: correlation does not imply causation.

There's no guarantee a winner in a polling is contributing to the bottom line.

Today, Kishi, SP, Sueisha and all Naruto production team learn it the hard way. No matter how hard one tried to hide it, twist it, massage it, whatsoever, the fact is clear: they've made a big mistake going with nH and SS ending.

And the worst part is, this number is the measurements they count based on sales to distribution channels. It's not necessarily the "end" number that gets to customers. That's how printing industry works folks. You estimate based on retailers demand and past trends, print your magazine, distribute it across the country and you'd be hoping that at least the return rate from retailers is not more than 20% of your production.

Lessons learned the hard way for Kishi.

 

Your right, but we can't determine popularity based on parings.

 

A lot of SS shippers I know are not supporting the Boruto series because it not by Kishi. A lot of NH shippers dropped after the heavy hint of Naruto dying in the series. Then we also have pro-ending fandom who are official done with the series (1-72) and have moved on. SS/NH also dropped Boruto for reasons as well, so we can't accurately determine who bought the series. Only that it's extreme shippers. If not, than Studio Perriot would not be animating the Novels this winter, one of which is the NH wedding.

 

 

The he only way we can have an accurate reading is if Kishimoto was actually involved. If he had written the Boruto manga, would it had been more successful than Ikemoto's? People say that Kishi was "involved", but so was he in The Last. Imho, the lack of sells are due to the lack of involvement on Kishi. Ever since the ending, you can see he has been more and more so distancing himself from Naruto. Makes you wonder if he's against the ending...

[Bail o' Lies]

Neon: 'perception is reality' for most people. Also numbers don't lie people do. So to the people working in Shueisha, SP, and even people who are just looking at the sales numbers.  All they can see is that the Naruto franchise is in free-fall. Anyone who uses "well the reason it didn't sell well is because kishi wasn't the mangaka" is just speculating to justify why the volume didn't sell well. So there could be 100 million people in Japan who claim to be nH fans as far as we know, but that doesn't matter only since about 183,000 actually purchase a volume that is a continuation of their ending.

 

As for kishimoto he was initially fine with the ending since he was told that it was what the majority of the fans wanted anyways. Once he learned that wasn't the case well. He did not care about nor like either nH/SS beforehand he certainly doesn't now. 

 

Nama: We got silent majority vs the vocal minority going on with the Naruto series. Most were fine with even if they did not support NS it being the end pairing. So they didn't feel the need to constantly send letter to kishi about how they like the story and he should keep doing what he was doing. On  the other hand kishi constantly got messages from a small group of people that absolutely despised Sakura and refused to allow her to get what in their mind was rightfully hinata's.

 

Now to add to this here is a lesson from scientist man:

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 12 August 2016 - 05:50 AM.

[db84x]

It looks like the anime is ending at the big 700 (original + shippuuden). How cute...That means the final fight will get stretched out. Cool, it's just what I need, the major disappointing final battle to be stretched out...

 

SP won't let its cash cow died soon anyway

[TouKen4Life3g]

Yeah, I know. I mean the latest episode is seriously bad. I was also reminded on where I realized the fight was not good at all. I was really hoping it's just a long boring prelude. Then she was defeated and Hagoromo almost pulled a Flash Gordan ending, only missing Naruto jumping to the camera screen.

[db84x]

I know that Naruto is our guilty pleasure despite its bad we just can't abandon it, lucky I not saw anime.  Good luck for you Touken, I hope you managed to finish it 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I only start it again from the last point in order to see it end. Yeah, I have a bad habit of not leaving undone, good or bad. Naruto is among that. Since I started it, I have to finish it.

Probably the biggest regret of 2016 so far. Oh well, better than listening to auto high praise just because it's Naruto. Like I know there were good moments even at its darkest hour, but like the opposite of Skyrim, negative outweigh the positive significantly.

[db84x]

Just treat Naruto like our reguler shounen manga, it lessen your pain.  I hope you will enjoy the ride 

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I treat Naruto (the franchise) like toilet paper. Theere are better free shonen webcomics that has OPM Ones quality style art with 100 times better plot.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

A major flop it is, if we compare it against over 1 million copies in the first week of sales when Naruto was on its peak.

What a waste. And the worst part is all of this is for the sake of Hinata, nH and SS.

I recall I've posted something about pareto principle sometimes back.

http://www.narusaku....=14963&page=212

And it's no surprise that the principles hold true for Naruto franchise: 20% of its fans were contributing to 80% of its sales.

And who are those 20%? Well, based on the numbers, they're the ones not satisfied with the ending. In other words, NS and other true Naruto fans. Those who got nothing, but getting ridiculed by the author and SP.

The empirical evidence is clear: the numbers dropped by roughly close to 80% with the death of NS (and other good quality of storytelling).

Just because someone say nH and SS is popular, it doesn't warrant successful outcome. Moreover if the source of opinion is from the Internet. God forbid, Internet forums are probably one of the worst data source a market analyser could get. Do you want to know how much is the supporters of nH and SS? Well, there you go. Based on the boruto first week sales, it's not that much.

Even if you have a convincing polling number to kill NS, for the sake of nH and SS, it will not enough. Statistics 101: correlation does not imply causation.

There's no guarantee a winner in a polling is contributing to the bottom line.

Today, Kishi, SP, Sueisha and all Naruto production team learn it the hard way. No matter how hard one tried to hide it, twist it, massage it, whatsoever, the fact is clear: they've made a big mistake going with nH and SS ending.

And the worst part is, this number is the measurements they count based on sales to distribution channels. It's not necessarily the "end" number that gets to customers. That's how printing industry works folks. You estimate based on retailers demand and past trends, print your magazine, distribute it across the country and you'd be hoping that at least the return rate from retailers is not more than 20% of your production.

Lessons learned the hard way for Kishi.

 

Agree. But the way I see it, Shuiesha is too biased to give it up and what Bail said that SP has too much close ties with them to revolt outright cancel.

[Bail o' Lies]

 

Agree. But the way I see it, Shuiesha is too biased to give it up and what Bail said that SP has too much close ties with them to revolt outright cancel.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they went with NS in the anime and just changed their adaptation of the novels to fit that accordingly. Not expecting it, but would be pleased if it happened. Mainly because it would show how badly Naruto has fallen and would be SP one of hinata's biggest supporter admitting the nH ending was a disastrous flop.

 

Really I honestly want to know what executive in Shueisha is so obsessed with keeping the ending the way it was and not back down or change/reboot it to save face? Cause the major players that were said to be involved with convincing kishi to change the ending were his new editors, his assistants, and SP. They really don't mention any executives being involved with the ending? Then again they could have been hiding that knowledge because the executive/s that ordered the change probably bragged about it before the last flop and now refuses to look foolish. Who knows.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 August 2016 - 12:47 AM.

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they went with NS in the anime and just changed their adaptation of the novels to fit that accordingly. Not expecting it, but would be pleased if it happened. Mainly because it would show how badly Naruto has fallen and would be SP one of hinata's biggest supporter admitting the nH ending was a disastrous flop.

 

Really I honestly want to know what executive in Shueisha is so obsessed with keeping the ending the way it was and not back down or change/reboot it to save face? Cause the major players that were said to be involved with convincing kishi to change the ending were his new editors, his assistants, and SP. They really don't mention any executives being involved with the ending? Then again they could have been hiding that knowledge because the executive/s that ordered the change probably bragged about it before the last flop and now refuses to look foolish. Who knows.

 

I think SP's just a pawn and a foot solider. After all, they took full brunt of the negativity when TL was aired in Japan wither false advertisement and you know what. 

[Moon_Girl]

Now to add to this here is a lesson from scientist man:

I want Scientist Man to analyze the Naruto ending and show the numbers to prove people in denial that the ending sucked terribly.

[Bail o' Lies]

I want Scientist Man to analyze the Naruto ending and show the numbers to prove people in denial that the ending sucked terribly.

They have no interest in anime -as far as i understand- for the most part. This is as close as we're going to get. Just replace sexism with "authorial intent."

[Catra]

no point in analyzing something so deep since the "fans" who liked it won't listen to the other side anyway and it really all falls down on "they did it cuz money first."

[TheFirstEvil100]

no point in analyzing something so deep since the "fans" who liked it won't listen to the other side anyway and it really all falls down on "they did it cuz money first."

Hence why I don't even trust the critics anymore as they say other films all suck, but ask them how Naruto is they would give it high marks like 9/10 and all that.

 

While something like say finding Dory they might give low marks.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well The Last is the prime example.