4869 replies to this topic

[Devil Keyz]

^^ they have the manga's in English

WARNIN CONTAIN'S SPOILERS: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/469/10/

^^ my favorite page

but can someone answer.. i herd that durin' the chunin exam's that Rock lee protected sakura from something and the she said she liked him? or summin like that? im in the progress of download all naruto episodes since cartoon network likes 2 stop playin' half way thru..

anyways if there is a chance of a LeeSaku, i will be sad, and disgusted lol no offence to lee fan's but those eye brows.. bowl hair cut.. is just weird lol.

Edited by Devil Keyz, 15 November 2009 - 03:50 AM.

[Lazy-Genius]

I just re-read that part, and I didn't see anything like that. LeeSaku is pretty much dead in the manga and anime

but as I was reading through it, I found this picture and the first thing that came to my mind was "is she wearing Naruto's pants?"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/54/02/

[TwilightLink20xx]

I don't know, but they definately look similar, lol.

[ciardha]

^^ they have the manga's in English

WARNIN CONTAIN'S SPOILERS: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/469/10/

^^ my favorite page

but can someone answer.. i herd that durin' the chunin exam's that Rock lee protected sakura from something and the she said she liked him? or summin like that? im in the progress of download all naruto episodes since cartoon network likes 2 stop playin' half way thru..

In the manga in the Forest of Death when Naruto and Sasuke are both unconscious and Sakura is watching over them both (and I emphasize equal concern for both boys) Sound ninja show up. Rock Lee sees the situation and because he's in love with Sakura (although Lee's definitely the type guy who would jump into a situation like that anyways) jumps in to take on the Sound ninja. Sakura watches the short fight (Lee is soon unconscious like Naruto and Sasuke) and Sakura knows he's doing this because he's in love with her. After he's knocked unconcious Sakura realizes she has to fight just like Naruto, Sasuke and Lee. That's when her fight with the Sound ninja starts (and it lasts longer than Lee's I have to add) That's when her hair gets cut and you first see that fierce joy on her face in battle situations that often crops up during part 2 of the manga.

Sakura never says she is in love with Lee, but from that point on he's a friend. When he is in the hospital, severely injured after the battle with Gaara, she gets a flower for him, but leaves it while he's asleep and doesn't stay (to make sure he doesn't get the wrong idea and take it romantically, I'm sure)

Lee is to Sakura what Hinata is to Naruto basically, a support character that has a one sided crush on them. Kishimoto killed off naruhina for good in 450 and killed off leesaku in 469- not that either had ever any possibility in the manga anyway...

Not that sasusaku had any chance either as Sasuke had zero romantic feelings for Sakura, so another one-sided crush- something Sakura even acknowledges in her confession scene in part 1. The confession actually is more like the start of Sakura purging her romantic fantasies of Sasuke from her mind, it hurts her - a lot.

Subconsciously her true feelings of love for Naruto- first noticed with confusion by Sakura way back in chapter 13, begin to get closer to conscious feelings. Note her thoughts immediately after Naruto makes the Promise of a Lifetime, and her whole demeanor in chapter 236 when she sees Naruto in the hospital- she immediately tries to get him to let go of the promise to her, when he refuses, she says to wait for her to get stronger because the next time they'll go after Sasuke together. Her way of saying that already shows she's done a lot to put any fantasies about Sasuke behind her. She's already beginning to think of bringing Sasuke back in terms of Naruto and Sasuke's bond- which she basically acknowledged during the POAL scene was far more strong than any bond between her and Sasuke.

By the time part 2 starts, all romantic fantasies she had about Sasuke are long gone. It's Naruto she blushes, smiles and flirts with. When they see Sasuke, Sakura has a brief moment of stunned awe (but note no blush or even smile) that Naruto mistakes for romantic feelings- as we see in chapter 469. But it's not, the next expression on her face is fear, she no longer has the naive girlish romantic illusions about physically attractive, powerful dangerous guys who are emotionless except for rage. He's still her team mate though, she's not giving up hope for that bond renewing, yet, but it's been given a crushing blow by Sasuke's actions. Sakura takes it better than Naruto though, she's already faced one disillusionment concerning Sasuke.

Sakura, because she's put all romantic fantasies about Sasuke behind her and privately embraced her romantic feelings for Naruto, has no idea that Naruto has built up this whole mental set of rules of expressing his romantic feelings for Sakura because he believes she still is in love with Sasuke. Sakura never knew and would have never wanted him to have done such a thing, as we see in 458 at her reaction of emotional detestation when Sai reveals what Naruto had done concerning the promise and his feelings for her, and her fierce resolution in 459 to end the promise immediately. She does accomplish that part of her task, and somewhat gets Naruto to understand she loves him, but doesn't suceed at the other part that she hoped she could, because although her romantic feelings for Sasuke are gone, and mentally she's accepted that even the hope of a team mate bond renewal has to end, her heart still struggles with that. That's the deluding herself aspect that Naruto picked up on.

Letting go of a team mate bond is near impossible in Naruto's world- look at Tsunade's and Jiraiya's reaction to Orochimaru's death. They'd long ago accepted he was a twisted evil man who would never be their team mate again, but years of a family like bond, still made them mourn a bit- and for Tsunade the bond was never as strong as Jiraiya's to Orochimaru's and she knew he was untrustworthy long before the 3rd Hokage or Jiraiya did.

Edited by ciardha, 15 November 2009 - 11:13 AM.

[Jenskott]

You want to know how insane that mentality can get?

Nice examples. I also can think of various:

Sailor Moon - According some fans, Rei Hino is an evil, possessive b***h who tries breaking up Usagi and Mamoru. Never mind Rei and Mamoru never dated in the manga, and in the anime she INSTANTLY stepped aside when she found out Maoru and Usagi were in love with each other and never tried breaking them up.

Pokemon - I remember a disgusting fic where Misty was a jealous and psychotic harpy raped and murdered May in punishment for stealing Ash away her. I have unsuccessfully tried purging it out of my mind (Oh, my God... The pain... The pain...).

Kimagure Orange Road - Back when I searched for KOR fics, I found stories where Hikaru was depicted like a psychotic, overjealous harpy (I'm beginning seeing a trend) or rants where she was bashed for getting in the way of Kyosuke and Madoka's love... not matter what she was being wronged by her best friend/surrogated older sister and her -Hikaru's- so-called boyfriend! And not matter what she has been portrayed -in Matsumoto's manga and novels- like an exceptionally forgiving person, and in the last chapter of the manga she was being more mature than Madoka, asking her stop denying her feelings and running away.

Akane Kasuga (Kyosuke's cousin) often gets this treatment, too (although it isn't -directly- related to shipping matters). She's joyful and well-intentioned in the manga, even if the outcome of her antics invariably turn out to be disastrous, but fanfic writers usually turn her into a man-hating, over-jealous, psychotic... you have the idea.

I can be wrong about this, but I believe Sayaka Yumi is possibly the first lead tsundere. Though I have never seen other Mazinger Z fans bashing her or screaming: "she's an abusive b***h because she hits Koji!". I wonder why that is. The slaps were merited and well justified -she got mad and slapped him because he behaved like a sexist jerk the half of time-, but that sort of things have never dissuaded bashers.

I witnessed this in the Ranma 1/2 fandom too, the rabid Shampoo fans were the ones that posted the most rabid hatred against Akane (Ukyou fans tended to prefer Ukyou with Ryouga, and Kodachi was just too flaky to have very many fans) much of the same stuff you see about Sakura being violent was what Shampoo fans used against Akane. Never mind Ranma was at 16 still acting toward Akane like Jiraiya was to Tsunade at 12 or so.

Akane is other excellent example. I have found fans claiming they hated Akane because she was violent, brutish and aggressive... and then praising Shampoo because she was beautiful, a cool fighter and she always understood Ranma's feelings (cue booming laughter). Or stating Ukyo was a best match for Ranma because she is good, and nice and sweet (not matter what Ukyo has also hit Ranma, has tried bribing him and blackmailing him, menaced other girls who apparently got closer to Ranma, destroyed Saotome's household, thrown bombs in Ranma and Akane's wedding, and is just so violent like Shampoo).

And I'd preffer not mention the Akane-haters, Ranma/Nabiki shippers (shudders).

much of the same stuff you see about Sakura being violent was what Shampoo fans used against Akane. Never mind Ranma was at 16 still acting toward Akane like Jiraiya was to Tsunade at 12 or so.

I'm a Ryoga/Ukyo shipper, too, and I agree. Akane got bashed for the same reasons than Sakura does. And Akane haters tend to "forget" that Ranma was slammed the half of the times because he goaded/picked Akane without motive or provocation.

only things i have to add are this. I still dont really understand where sasusaku fans even realistically imagine that their pairing ever had a chance in the first place.

I mean we talk about the pairing sinking or being sunk, but how do you sink a boat with no bottom?

Good question.

By the way, I have just found this little gem:

TVtropes.org: Ship Sinking

•Naruto Chapter 469 & 470. A massive salvo of torpedoes launched at the Naruto/Sakura ship, with Naruto unambiguously rejecting Sakura's confession to him.
Naruto: You came all the way here just to tell me this?

Are we reading the same manga? Naruto never rejected Sakura, unambiguously or otherwise. In fact, when she confessed, he blushed and looked happy. And that wasn't his sentence, by the way. The right quote is: "It's just I find weird you came all the way here just to tell me this.". Whoever wrote that quote did an excellent work editing it in order to completely change tone and inent.

A massive salvo of torpedoes launched at the NaruSaku ship? Do you seriously think that? Sakura has stated she loves Naruto and chooses him over Sasuke and gets mad when he doesn't want believing her. And she does this after it has been confirmed Naruto is in love with her.

IMO, if chapter 469-470 have sunk one pairing, it's SasuSaku.

Oh, well. My advice is ignoring them (hence, it's ironic I posted the link, isn't it?) and leting the manga does the speaking. If they are wrong, like I strongly suspect, they'll find out quite soon. To their regret.

[James S Cassidy]

You know, if I could just rant for a moment.....thank you.

I am getting so tired of these people who look at ONE SCENE from a manga or anime and assume this torpedoes or canonizes said pairing. Now granted one scene CAN make or break it, but if that one scene in question is so AMBIGUOUS that no clear answer can be obtained from it then it seems ludicrous for these people to take it seriously.

I mean this for both NaruSaku and NaruHina fans AND other pairing fanclubs that exist.

I remember a famous quote

"You cannot see the forest for the trees."
Does anyone remember this saying?

It means "One cannot perceive the overview or important things because of concentrating too much on details."

These people...these radicals I shall say....always look at the "trees" for evidence, but never did they stand back and see the "forest" itself. Regardless of what the "forest" really is, they believe what the "forest" is based on looking at a few "trees" that grew from it.

This leads me to believe that some do not even know the Naruto manga itself. They don't know Kishi's writing style and if you look at the manga at a whole you can probably tell what is going to happen by the "clue-trees" that he leaves behind. (No pun intended on the "leaves." Also no pun intended with the Leaf Village of Naruto)

Ironically, even the Naruto manga itself preaches this concept in a roundabout way.

I cannot say who is right or who is wrong. I am just saying that I think people need to start looking at the forest itself before they start looking at the trees. Examine how the forest grew overtime; helps you better understand the trees behavior and how it will continue to grow.

Okay I am done.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 15 November 2009 - 03:37 PM.

[RedDelicious]

You know, if I could just rant for a moment.....thank you.
...
I cannot say who is right or who is wrong.

But I can... you are wrong! Naruhina is wrong! Narusaku is right, because I said so! Only I am right, and all those who oppose me are wrong! Kneel before Zod!

Sorry about that... In any case, I agree with those who say that Narusaku, as a two-sided mutually-fulfilling relationship, has the best chance of being/becoming true, due to the development already in place. It doesn't *have* to be true, but it would feel like building a house for yourself and never moving in. Other relationships, while not completely excluded, would need a lot more ground work in order to make the relationship feel like an organic development (rather than something tacked on).

Edited by RedDelicious, 15 November 2009 - 04:00 PM.

[ciardha]

I can be wrong about this, but I believe Sayaka Yumi is possibly the first lead tsundere. Though I have never seen other Mazinger Z fans bashing her or screaming: "she's an abusive b***h because she hits Koji!". I wonder why that is. The slaps were merited and well justified -she got mad and slapped him because he behaved like a sexist jerk the half of time-, but that sort of things have never dissuaded bashers.

Can't recall exactly when Mazinger Z came out, but if it wasn't her it certainly was Lady Oscar from Rose of Versailles- Riyoko Ikeda's most famous shoujo manga. I've never seen her run down either. I'm thinking Rose of Versailles may predate Mazinger Z but I'm not certain (Rose of Versailles ran in manga form 1971-3, but it wasn't animated until almost a decade later, definitely after Mazinger Z was animated.) Lady Oscar herself is a fleshing out of Tezuka's Princess Knight/Ribbon Knight, making it much more realistic- and less insulting to women At the time Tezuka wrote his manga (1950's) beliefs about male and female "innate" behaviors were rather backward, but by the time Ikeda wrote Rose of Versailles the second wave of the women's movement was in full flower and having influencing images of how female characters acted all across the industrialized world.

The basis of the tsundere type begins as a positive expression of female strength, and Kishimoto looks to want to return to that view of the type, but with a stronger awareness that the tender side of the type coexists all along, not as a suppressed side of the character that overtakes the character as she falls in love. Which is mostly how Ikeda wrote Lady Oscar, her giving in to her love for Andre did nothing to diminish her fierce fighter side.

However Lady Oscar does suppress her feelings and tender side at first, and her brief attraction to Fierson does "weaken" and "feminize" her- making her cry over having to be a solider and always dress in men's clothes, she even puts on a dress for a ball. (the only time we see her in a dress) but she realizes her crush is hopeless and sees how it's weakened her and puts it aside.

Eventually she realizes Andre loves her and she returns his feelings. Andre joins the revolutionaries side and eventually Lady Oscar does too. It's a true shame that Rose of Versailles still remains untranslated, and even the anime is available only by fansubbers. It had a profound affect on how shoujo manga and eventually shonen manga wrote female characters. It was also greatly loved by French anime and manga fans (many editions of the manga have been published in France over the years, and the anime has been shown on French TV numerous times). A French live action movie adaption was even made of it, it was so popular. (Sadly the film is rather lackluster- it's called "Lady Oscar".)

Fair warning if you are interested and want to seek it out- Rose of Versailles is a tragic romance (a not uncommon ending in shoujo manga of the early 1970's- characters either dying or going insane at the end of the stories.) All the central characters die, only a few support characters are left alive at the end. Lady Oscar and Andre both die in battle on the same day- the storming of the Bastille- Andre dies first then some time afterward Lady Oscar also dies. Knowing this ahead of time makes it possible to enjoy the story, like Shakespeare's tragedies or most Opera stories. (Interestingly, Ikeda is a bit of an Opera fan)

Are we reading the same manga? Naruto never rejected Sakura, unambiguously or otherwise. In fact, when she confessed, he blushed and looked happy. And that wasn't his sentence, by the way. The right quote is: "It's just I find weird you came all the way here just to tell me this.". Whoever wrote that quote did an excellent work editing it in order to completely change tone and inent.

A massive salvo of torpedoes launched at the NaruSaku ship? Do you seriously think that? Sakura has stated she loves Naruto and chooses him over Sasuke and gets mad when he doesn't want believing her. And she does this after it has been confirmed Naruto is in love with her.

IMO, if chapter 469-470 have sunk one pairing, it's SasuSaku.

Definitely. Naruto seems to have come at least partly to accept Sakura loves him now and no longer loves Sasuke, and seems to have decided he will drop the POAL as far as it is connected to her, but he won't give up on chasing down Sasuke and believing he can be redeemed. Seriously, the only viable ships now are Narusaku and Narusasu. (And we know Naruto and Sasuke isn't going to happen, but Kishimoto is letting it look like Naruto's obsession with Sasuke has taken precedence over his love for Sakura for a while. Sakura may even believe that Naruto loves Sasuke more than he loves her, his words could certainly lead her to think so. Sakura knows how dangerous that situation puts Naruto in and out of her love for Naruto she is going to eliminate Sasuke before he can kill Naruto.)

[catsi563]

exactly Ciardha.

add in if someone wants to put a comment on there it should be this

the only relationship that got torpedoed in Naruto was NaruHina. Any possibility of NaruHina was sunk when after her glorious confession, she watched Sakura and Naruto hug romantically from the sidelines with a warm and accepting smile on her face, and then promptly vanished back into obscurity.

SasuSaku was not torpedoed but only because like the much mentioned Zutarra it never left port.

[pharix]

I just re-read that part, and I didn't see anything like that. LeeSaku is pretty much dead in the manga and anime

but as I was reading through it, I found this picture and the first thing that came to my mind was "is she wearing Naruto's pants?"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/54/02/

it does look like his pants O_o and a Tsunade-like coat

Pokemon - I remember a disgusting fic where Misty was a jealous and psychotic harpy raped and murdered May in punishment for stealing Ash away her. I have unsuccessfully tried purging it out of my mind (Oh, my God... The pain... The pain...).

wow rofl.

never would've expected Pokemon to have crazy pairing wars >.<

Edited by pharix, 15 November 2009 - 07:58 PM.

[ciardha]

exactly Ciardha.

add in if someone wants to put a comment on there it should be this

the only relationship that got torpedoed in Naruto was NaruHina. Any possibility of NaruHina was sunk when after her glorious confession, she watched Sakura and Naruto hug romantically from the sidelines with a warm and accepting smile on her face, and then promptly vanished back into obscurity.

Another point- Hinata voted for killing Sasuke with no hint of reservations, as seen in the reactions to the vote. Hinata just stares at Ino crying and Tenten comforting her, nor does she voice even a mild objection to Kiba's harsh words to Ino. Tenten is the one that snaps back at Kiba (she must have voted no along with Ino. Lee looks to have voted yes, but with doubts as his body language shows. Chouji was likely another reluctant yes- because he knew how hurt Ino would be. And he is trying to comfort Ino along with Tenten in the aftermath of the vote.)

Sakura is struggling with the idea even though she knows it has to be done for not just Naruto's sake but everyone's. Naruto's safety is her priority though because he's in the most immediate danger from Sasuke. She knew Naruto would be almost impossible to convince that Sasuke needed to be killed- at least at first. Knew from her own feelings on the subject. She knew the first step would be for him to give up on chasing after Sasuke and come back to Konoha with her. Then she could gradually get him to accept just how far gone Sasuke is... She also had to end Naruto hurting himself emotionally over the rules he imposed on himself completely without her knowledge (and to her horror when she found out) about not expressing his love for Sakura because he mistakenly still believed she was in love with Sasuke. Because of those horrid rules he'd made for himself, Naruto was blind to Sakura's expressions of love. It took her anger to make it through that wall.

[Froot]

Haha. Love all the metaphors, guys

''Building a house for yourself but never moving in'' would be the perfect description for NaruHina if it were to be canonized. The NH fans celebrate over the little HinaNaru moment but forget about

-Sakura being ambivelent over her feelings for Naruto as early as chapter 13
-Sakura being eager to throw away her AND Sasuke's chances at becoming Genin for Naruto's sake
-Sakura totally and completely throwing away her feelings for Sasuke for Naruto's sake
-The little hints Kishi/Sai threw around in the form of quotes from a book
-Sakura's understanding of Naruto and Sasuke's bond and how it is so much stronger than Sasuke and hers
-Yamato practically screaming ''Sakura loves Naruto''
-Sakura supporting Naruto and wanting to become stronger with him
-Naruto's obvious feelings for Sakura
-Sakura's amiguously apparent feelings for Naruto
-The fact that Hinata's not the only martyr for Naruto - (Besides everyone else in Konoha) And the fact that Sakura ran to an already Kyuubified Naruto
-The fact that Sakura tried to get Naruto to give up on Sasuke roughly... 4 times. (If I'm wrong, 1 time is still more than enough)
-Sakura's understanding of Naruto's problems
-Sakura's sympathy for Naruto's problems


VS.

-''Heehee'' behind Naruto's back
-''I love you!'' *Ownt*

It was brave, but not effective; Like trying to stop a dam from bursting. And I don't want to belittle Hinata; It was astounding what she did. But it just can't hold a candle to the steady, subtle development NaruSaku's had over the series

[Merger Knight]

And I don't want to belittle Hinata; It was astounding what she did. But it just can't hold a candle to the steady, subtle development NaruSaku's had over the series

ya. Why don't we put her with Kiba or Shino from her own group? isn't there a pairing for her besides Naruto that people can get behind?

[Miss Soupy]

It's funny that now NH fans are claiming Yamato's almost admission of love is now meaningless because he showed anger at Sakura during the confession XD I wonder then, what was the point of the scene?

Sakura you...have something on your face!!!?

Suuure... XD So we are allowed to just treat a scene like he doesn't exist merely because Yamato showed anger towards something (unidentified specifically) that had to do with Sakura talking to Naruto?

[ciardha]

ya. Why don't we put her with Kiba or Shino from her own group? isn't there a pairing for her besides Naruto that people can get behind?

Kishimoto seems to be pointing toward Kibahina from the hints he's put out. Kiba clearly has definite feelings for Hinata and Hinata at least has a liking for Kiba and has shown concern for him. The animators certainly have ran with that in Shippuden omakes- so they've picked up on that vibe, it's the only other pairing they even play with for her in Shippuden.

They picked up on the ChouxIno vibe too, but played it more seriously, adding filler bits in the actual episodes. It's a fairly clear ship amongst support characters.

[Merger Knight]

Kishimoto seems to be pointing toward Kibahina from the hints he's put out. Kiba clearly has definite feelings for Hinata and Hinata at least has a liking for Kiba and has shown concern for him. The animators certainly have ran with that in Shippuden omakes- so they've picked up on that vibe, it's the only other pairing they even play with for her in Shippuden.

They picked up on the ChouxIno vibe too, but played it more seriously, adding filler bits in the actual episodes. It's a fairly clear ship amongst support characters.

cool wish we could show it to themnot that they would believe us anyway

so what chapters or episodes are they in.

The only one i can think of is in the dub anime when Kiba told H to quit the exams if her opent was .....

Kishimoto seems to be pointing toward Kibahina from the hints he's put out. Kiba clearly has definite feelings for Hinata and Hinata at least has a liking for Kiba and has shown concern for him.

A Dog person with a Powerful Nose and a Byagugun that would be some kid

Edited by Merger Knight, 16 November 2009 - 04:12 AM.

[jinsterr]

It's funny that now NH fans are claiming Yamato's almost admission of love is now meaningless because he showed anger at Sakura during the confession XD I wonder then, what was the point of the scene?

Sakura you...have something on your face!!!?

Suuure... XD So we are allowed to just treat a scene like he doesn't exist merely because Yamato showed anger towards something (unidentified specifically) that had to do with Sakura talking to Naruto?

This is the first time I've ever replied here (I am de-lurking lol) since most of what you guys have said are pretty much the same thoughts I've had.

Anyway, regarding the above, I think Yamato was angry is not because of Sakura's sudden confession, but maybe because Sakura suggested that Naruto should give up chasing Sasuke when all this time she and Naruto have been determined to save him. If I were Yamato, I think I'd be a little alarmed, if not extremely confused and suspicious over this sudden change, because it just seems so out of the blue.

I don't think him being angry has anything to with her feelings. But that's just my speculation. Because I don't think Yamato would say one thing ("What's important is how how strongly you feel about Naruto. Heh, I can tell just by looking at you. The truth is, you--") and then have completely contradicting feelings about that the next.

Edited by jinsterr, 16 November 2009 - 05:30 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

This is the first time I've ever replied here (I am de-lurking lol) since most of what you guys have said are pretty much the same thoughts I've had.

Anyway, regarding the above, I think Yamato was angry is not because of Sakura's sudden confession, but maybe because Sakura suggested that Naruto should give up chasing Sasuke when all this time she and Naruto have been determined to save him. If I were Yamato, I think I'd be a little alarmed, if not extremely confused and suspicious over this sudden change, because it just seems so out of the blue.

I don't think him being angry has anything to with her feelings. But that's just my speculation. Because I don't think Yamato would say one thing ("What's important is how how strongly you feel about Naruto. Heh, I can tell just by looking at you. The truth is, you--") and then have completely contradicting feelings about that the next.

I agree! Yamato, like Naruto, would be shocked and angry at Sakura for suddenly wanting to give up on Sasuke. I don't think Yamato would even feel comfortable enough trying to gauge Sakura's real emotions, but he would feel comfortable being suspicious about her sudden change about saving Sasuke. (Interesting that they deny that Sai actually understands Naruto's emotions for Sakura and yet they support Yamato understanding Sakura's 'hidden feelings') He has done a lot of work with the team for that cause, and it makes sense he wouldn't agree with it. It would not make sense for Kishi to write that telling scene previously and then just negate it suddenly. It would feel like the previous scene was meant merely to stir up the fandom rather than being a part of the story. I don't think kishi was doing that. So yeah, you can't just say Yamato's unfinished words meant nothing towards NS due to a miffed look during a separate scene.

Edited by Miss Soupy, 16 November 2009 - 05:41 AM.

[Froot]

Their theory of Yamato and Sai not understanding Naruto and Sakura's feelings holds no water. It's the same as when Kurenai thought to herself, ''Hinata...'' when she wasn't even Hinata's sensei for more than a month.

Sai and Yamato's statements were put in there for a reason. Never mind the fact that Sai kept dropping hints and Yamato giving knowing looks. It's sad when two ''outsiders'' were the ones to put Naruto and Sakura's feelings out there and you still deny them; it's that obvious! (Come on, SAI noticed! What more do you even need? )

Had it been Kakashi, I'm sure they'd all come up with some other excuse. But they don't want to acknowledge that understanding people and their emotions is part of Sai's development.

On another note, I disagree with KibaHina. That would make Kiba the rebound guy. It just seems like a leftovers pairing you make when you like one pairing, then take whatever's left and scrap it together to make another. To me, KibaHina is very unlikely.

[Jenskott]

Can't recall exactly when Mazinger Z came out, but if it wasn't her it certainly was Lady Oscar from Rose of Versailles- Riyoko Ikeda's most famous shoujo manga. I've never seen her run down either. I'm thinking Rose of Versailles may predate Mazinger Z but I'm not certain (Rose of Versailles ran in manga form 1971-3, but it wasn't animated until almost a decade later, definitely after Mazinger Z was animated.)

Mazinger-Z's manga came out in October-1972 and it was animated two months later. Thus, Rose of Versailles certainly came out first.

Usually I preffer avoiding overly categorical phrasings such like "Book/show/game X was the first in using Trope Y ever!" because there always is the possibility of that trope was used earlier in some series you don't know about. And I often run into young fans who think their beloved series is completely original. So I preffer playing it safe.

Often I found that mentality between Evangelion fans who think that nineties anime is incredibly original despite of it does nothing -NOTHING!- I haven't seen done thousand times in older anime series, whether they featured gigantic robots or not (the end of Neon Genesis Evangelion heavily borrows elements of the end of Space Runaway Ideon, for example). Or among Naruto fans who believe Dragon Ball (I refuse calling it DBZ unless I'm specifically talking about thatrun of the anime) is Kishimoto's only inspiration, like if it was the first shonen manga ever! It gets annoying.

Lady Oscar herself is a fleshing out of Tezuka's Princess Knight/Ribbon Knight, making it much more realistic- and less insulting to women At the time Tezuka wrote his manga (1950's) beliefs about male and female "innate" behaviors were rather backward, but by the time Ikeda wrote Rose of Versailles the second wave of the women's movement was in full flower and having influencing images of how female characters acted all across the industrialized world.

I know what kind of manga is Rose of Versailles and its a classic shojo manga. I haven't read it (albeit it has been translated in Spanish by Akaze Ediciones if I'm not mistaken), but I wouldn't mind. Thank you for your warning but don't worry: I know it's a very tragic story.

However I have read Tezuka's Ribbon no Kishi. I liked, but sometimes I couldn't help to think "I don't think one woman would like this scene". Then again, it was written in the fifties. If Tezuka was going to write Jungle Emperor today (that manga Disney didn't blatantly and shamelessly rip off when they made The Lion King. Not at all ), I'm certain he would portray the African people very differently.

Definitely. Naruto seems to have come at least partly to accept Sakura loves him now and no longer loves Sasuke, and seems to have decided he will drop the POAL as far as it is connected to her, but he won't give up on chasing down Sasuke and believing he can be redeemed. Seriously, the only viable ships now are Narusaku and Narusasu.

Well, when I read chapter 470's first pages, it seemed Sakura's words were getting through his thick, titanium-plated skull, but he yet couldn't fully accepting it -or believing it-.

There will NOT be NaruSasu. I'm utterly and downright sure of it. Though I have ran into NaruSasu fans claiming their ship is already practically canon just because Naruto still feels or believes he can or must or needs saving Sasuke from himself.

the only relationship that got torpedoed in Naruto was NaruHina. Any possibility of NaruHina was sunk when after her glorious confession, she watched Sakura and Naruto hug romantically from the sidelines with a warm and accepting smile on her face, and then promptly vanished back into obscurity.

Quite true, Catsi.

wow rofl.

never would've expected Pokemon to have crazy pairing wars >.<

Oh, it does. Believe me. It does.

Usually I -thankfully- miss them because I stopped watching Pokemon several years ago, and I like pretending the cartoon ended after the first season. But back then I also found heavy Misty-bashing.

I am a Ash/Misty (or Satoshi/Kasumi) shipper, and I see no reason to stop being.

It's funny that now NH fans are claiming Yamato's almost admission of love is now meaningless because he showed anger at Sakura during the confession XD I wonder then, what was the point of the scene?

...

What?

How does that scene nullifies the older one?

As far as I'm concerned, Yamato was angry at Sakura for she was asking Naruto dropping the promise and stopping chasing Sasuke (He didn't get angry at her when she was confessing at all). And I think this theory of mine is way likelier and more logical than the "Yamato was going to talk about Sakura's confidence issues" nosense.

I'm sick of shippers' dumb excuses. Once again, they're grasping at straws, looking for anything in order to go on believing whatever they want believing, disregarding the manga's evolution and plot's development.

By the way, some NH fans have manipulated chapter 469's pages, replacing Sakura with Hinata (right like they did with the "meaningless, sisterly" hug in chapter 450). This is too rich. If that confession was so awful, why are they stealing it? If Sakura was being so selfish, why are they replacing her with Hinata? If Naruto rejected Sakura why are they swapping her with Hinata?