19964 replies to this topic

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

@lava
for Drama
@crimsonfox
Naruto never gave up, why should Sakura?

You're forgetting one detail. The Team Seven reunion arc. Naruto said mention that he would sacrifice himself along with Sasuke (I forgot the comPlete dialogue). Kakashi and Sakura flinched at Naruto's motive.

She already did when she found out the pain Sasuke was causing Naruto when Sai told her and also when finding out that he joined Akatsuki. Along with Danzo's order to kill him for treason. Yeah she has plenty of reasons to give up on him, however she has decided to believe in them to settle things. She still cares for Sasuke but loving him that's another story.

Bravo

Well I still think the idea that Sakura would kill Sasuke to stop Naruto's pain just seems wrong. She would be sacrificing Sasuke so that Naruto could be happy. Granted there was no way in hell should could have beating Sasuke it showed what her intentions were. I'm just glad she didn't follow through with it, otherwise she would have gone from the edge, to rock bottom.

I don't think it's wrong. What I mentioned in the other pages back, she has some type of mental problem with Sasuke. That was why she couldn't kill him.

[Transformers03]

Well I still think the idea that Sakura would kill Sasuke to stop Naruto's pain just seems wrong. She would be sacrificing Sasuke so that Naruto could be happy. Granted there was no way in hell should could have beating Sasuke it showed what her intentions were. I'm just glad she didn't follow through with it, otherwise she would have gone from the edge, to rock bottom.

Sakura tried to kill Sasuke because she DOES love him. She agreed with the others that Sasuke must die, and she wanted him to die so that he wouldn't become more evil. Sai said it, saying something along the lines that she wants to kill him so that he wouldn't become more evil. A weird sense of showing how much you love someone, but not as weird as still being in love with someone WHO DOESN'T LOVE YOU BACK.

But she wanted to kill Sasuke herself, not only for their own sake, but mainly for Naruto's. Remember beforehand, Said told Sakura that Naruto loves her, and how the Promise of the Lifetime had given him a great burden. Not only that, the rest of K11 have decided that they believe Sasuke should die. Instead of worrying about Sasuke's current situation, she was more sad that she has indirectly caused Naruto pain and have given him a great burden. She then decided on two options to help lift Naruto's burden: 1) was to confess her love to him, to make it seem as if she was over with Sasuke, meaning that not only does he gets what she thinks he wants (for her to love him), but also doesn't give him a reason to keep the promise anymore (he made the promise for HER). 2) if the first option didn't work, the second option was try to kill Sasuke herself and make Naruto hate her. If Sakura killed Sasuke herself, then his blood will be on her hands, and just her hands. No one else had to kill him, and it wouldn't be Naruto's failure of saving him, it would have just been her decision. Naruto would only hate her, and no one else, this was her trying to repay Naruto for giving him a lifelong burden.

In her mind she had to two option for Naruto: she would either love him or make him hate her. That was her way in trying to replay Naruto for everything he has done for her. For Sasuke it was one option, he needed to die. But now Sakura has hope, Naruto has now given her hope that team 7 may be reunited.

[Gravenimage]

Sakura tried to kill Sasuke because she DOES love him. She agreed with the others that Sasuke must die, and she wanted him to die so that he wouldn't become more evil. Sai said it, saying something along the lines that she wants to kill him so that he wouldn't become more evil. A weird sense of showing how much you love someone, but not as weird as still being in love with someone WHO DOESN'T LOVE YOU BACK.

But she wanted to kill Sasuke herself, not only for their own sake, but mainly for Naruto's. Remember beforehand, Said told Sakura that Naruto loves her, and how the Promise of the Lifetime had given him a great burden. Not only that, the rest of K11 have decided that they believe Sasuke should die. Instead of worrying about Sasuke's current situation, she was more sad that she has indirectly caused Naruto pain and have given him a great burden. She then decided on two options to help lift Naruto's burden: 1) was to confess her love to him, to make it seem as if she was over with Sasuke, meaning that not only does he gets what she thinks he wants (for her to love him), but also doesn't give him a reason to keep the promise anymore (he made the promise for HER). 2) if the first option didn't work, the second option was try to kill Sasuke herself and make Naruto hate her. If Sakura killed Sasuke herself, then his blood will be on her hands, and just her hands. No one else had to kill him, and it wouldn't be Naruto's failure of saving him, it would have just been her decision. Naruto would only hate her, and no one else, this was her trying to repay Naruto for giving him a lifelong burden.

In her mind she had to two option for Naruto: she would either love him or make him hate her. That was her way in trying to replay Naruto for everything he has done for her. For Sasuke it was one option, he needed to die. But now Sakura has hope, Naruto has now given her hope that team 7 may be reunited.

THIS!

[Branden]

I think your all taking the "die together" thing too literally. I still believe he meant in a poetic way where they will both end up being changed shinobi by the end of the show. Granted the afterlife thing does counter-argue this, I believe we can simply interpret those as 2 different statements, and not one altogether.

And either way you look at it, Sakura was giving up on a friend. No matter how corrupt a friend gets you can never give up on them, that is why Naruto's promise to Sakura didn't matter in the slightest bit. The promise was only a burden on Sakura. Naruto would have done anything to save Sasuke regardless. Sakura proved that she was better then resorting to sacrifice by not killing Sasuke. I believe she realized that she was wrong in what she was doing, and put her faith in Naruto, since he never hesitated and she knew he would make the right choice.

[Don-kun]

You know what is hard for me to understand? The statement that many loves to use about Sakura wanting to kill Sasuke because she loves him so much that she doesn't want to see him sink any lower, to me that's bullsh, first of all Sai was the one who say that not Sakura, 1) Sakura say that she loves Naruto and since he refuse to give up she thought that by killing Sasuke she will repay Naruto even is he hates her, 2) If Sakura loves him so much that she needed to kill him because she didn't want to see him sink any lower, by not killing him after he said that his intentions is to wipe out Konoha citizens, whouldn't that makes him sink lower in her eyes.

Like I say if you set up your mind to kill the person you love because you cannot stand seeing who he has become, then you will not change your mind in the end, example Itachi killing his parents, he loved them but he needed to do it to protect Konoha, his families honer and especialy Sasuke. That's is how you act for someone you really love.
So that argument about what Sai told Naruto is bull, you cannot love someone to the point were you need to kill him to save him, but in the end you don't kill the him even after he says that his new goal is to kill you and all the people you know.

Sakura's only motivation to kill Sasuke was Naruto and Naruto only, but in the end her emotion and her feelings for Sasuke got in the way, she said so herself also I'm pretty sure if she find out what Sai said about her, a vein will grow in her forehead showing how angry she is about Sai's accusation.

[Paptala]

Sakura tried to kill Sasuke because she DOES love him. She agreed with the others that Sasuke must die, and she wanted him to die so that he wouldn't become more evil. Sai said it, saying something along the lines that she wants to kill him so that he wouldn't become more evil. A weird sense of showing how much you love someone, but not as weird as still being in love with someone WHO DOESN'T LOVE YOU BACK.

But she wanted to kill Sasuke herself, not only for their own sake, but mainly for Naruto's. Remember beforehand, Said told Sakura that Naruto loves her, and how the Promise of the Lifetime had given him a great burden. Not only that, the rest of K11 have decided that they believe Sasuke should die. Instead of worrying about Sasuke's current situation, she was more sad that she has indirectly caused Naruto pain and have given him a great burden. She then decided on two options to help lift Naruto's burden: 1) was to confess her love to him, to make it seem as if she was over with Sasuke, meaning that not only does he gets what she thinks he wants (for her to love him), but also doesn't give him a reason to keep the promise anymore (he made the promise for HER). 2) if the first option didn't work, the second option was try to kill Sasuke herself and make Naruto hate her. If Sakura killed Sasuke herself, then his blood will be on her hands, and just her hands. No one else had to kill him, and it wouldn't be Naruto's failure of saving him, it would have just been her decision. Naruto would only hate her, and no one else, this was her trying to repay Naruto for giving him a lifelong burden.

In her mind she had to two option for Naruto: she would either love him or make him hate her. That was her way in trying to replay Naruto for everything he has done for her. For Sasuke it was one option, he needed to die. But now Sakura has hope, Naruto has now given her hope that team 7 may be reunited.

Exactly! Very well explained - so many people are so eager to jump on Sakura for her confession at the summit - calling it a "failfession" among other things. I just find it ironic when it is such a powerful indicator of how strong Sakura's love for Naruto is - her actions at the summit are one of the most selfless things she has ever done for Naruto. It's almost like a mirroring of when Naruto made the POAL - there, Naruto was willing to put Sakura's feelings before his own, and likewise, Sakura was willing to put Naruto's feelings and wellbeing before her feelings - not only was she willing to kill Sasuke mainly to take the burden off of Naruto's shoulders and keep him from hurting himself trying to save someone she felt could no longer be saved (after all, she still felt something for Sasuke), she was willing to have Naruto hate her as well.

[Branden]

No no, the 2 most important themes in Naruto are Friendship and Generations.

Naruto at first accepted the promise of a lifetime for Sakura. Naruto realized though that the promise he made meant nothing. Naruto would never give up on Sasuke, promise or not.

The same thing happened with Sakura!

[Don-kun]

^^
lol that may be truth but Kishi also made this very clear 2 times in the manga.
"Those who break the rules are trash but those who abandon their friends are more than trash!"

Naruto friendship with Sasuke may be great but it's called by thousands of fans an obsession.

I think your all taking the "die together" thing too literally. I still believe he meant in a poetic way where they will both end up being changed shinobi by the end of the show. Granted the afterlife thing does counter-argue this, I believe we can simply interpret those as 2 different statements, and not one altogether.

And either way you look at it, Sakura was giving up on a friend. No matter how corrupt a friend gets you can never give up on them, that is why Naruto's promise to Sakura didn't matter in the slightest bit. The promise was only a burden on Sakura. Naruto would have done anything to save Sasuke regardless. Sakura proved that she was better then resorting to sacrifice by not killing Sasuke. I believe she realized that she was wrong in what she was doing, and put her faith in Naruto, since he never hesitated and she knew he would make the right choice.

No you wrong big time, Sakura only changes her mind after Naruto's TNJ Sasuke, when Naruto arrives and Kakashi ask them to leave, Sakura tells him that she wanted to help him Kill Sasuke she didn't think Kakashi needed to take all the burden on his own, but Kakasi told her that she already knows she cannot kill Sasuke and that made her feel very ashamed.

So to say that she realizes that killing Sasuke was an error is wrong because she didn't feel that way, her reason to stop was her own feeling but she already had her mind set up to kill him, the only one that didn't feel that way was Naruto and in the end he gave her the resolve to believe again and she thank him for that.

Edited by NS means logic, 10 July 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[Paptala]

No no, the 2 most important themes in Naruto are Friendship and Generations.

The only themes I've seen confirmed directly by Kishi in interviews are:
a) bonds - depicting the struggles and complications of difficult relationships; and
b) accepting other people

Naruto at first accepted the promise of a lifetime for Sakura. Naruto realized though that the promise he made meant nothing. Naruto would never give up on Sasuke, promise or not.

The same thing happened with Sakura!

No. Naruto never realized that the POAL meant nothing. The only thing he said was that the promise had nothing to do with his own personal desire to save Sasuke, which was obvious TO EVERYONE when he first made it (even Shizune points this out when Sai is talking to Sakura), because Naruto was going to save Sasuke already before he made the promise. The POAL was all about Sakura, and Naruto's romantic feelings for her. That's why the unfulfilled POAL is the reason Naruto feels that he can't confess to Sakura. That's why the POAL was what Sakura flashed back to when Sai told her Naruto loved her.

[Don-kun]

The only themes I've seen confirmed directly by Kishi in interviews are:
a) bonds - depicting the struggles and complications of difficult relationships; and
b) accepting other people

No. Naruto never realized that the POAL meant nothing. The only thing he said was that the promise had nothing to do with his own personal desire to save Sasuke, which was obvious TO EVERYONE when he first made it (even Shizune points this out when Sai is talking to Sakura), because Naruto was going to save Sasuke already before he made the promise. The POAL was all about Sakura, and Naruto's romantic feelings for her. That's why the unfulfilled POAL is the reason Naruto feels that he can't confess to Sakura. That's why the POAL was what Sakura flashed back to when Sai told her Naruto loved her.

Kishi even made this promise thing one of the Manga Title just to show the readers that his promise to her is very important.

Naruto 236 page 1 --Click here to view--

http://i35.mangareader.net/naruto/236/naruto-4603.jpg

Naruto 236 pg 14 --Click here to view--

http://i8.mangareader.net/naruto/236/naruto-4616.jpg

To the point where he gives her hope and a new determination to become strong.

And like you say the Poal was the main reason why Naruto hasn't chase Sakura and the main reason why Sasuke did give up on Sasuke that time.

[Branden]

The only themes I've seen confirmed directly by Kishi in interviews are:
a) bonds - depicting the struggles and complications of difficult relationships; and
b) accepting other people

No. Naruto never realized that the POAL meant nothing. The only thing he said was that the promise had nothing to do with his own personal desire to save Sasuke, which was obvious TO EVERYONE when he first made it (even Shizune points this out when Sai is talking to Sakura), because Naruto was going to save Sasuke already before he made the promise. The POAL was all about Sakura, and Naruto's romantic feelings for her. That's why the unfulfilled POAL is the reason Naruto feels that he can't confess to Sakura. That's why the POAL was what Sakura flashed back to when Sai told her Naruto loved her.

almost all of the defining moment of the series had something to do with friendship or generations. so if those aren't what he wanted for themes then Kishimoto did a bad job prioritizing his themes.

I will admit I didn't write that correctly, my point was that Naruto would have saved Sasuke anyways. It was a burden on Sakura, not Naruto, since he was going to do that regardless.

Edit: Typo

Edited by Branden, 10 July 2012 - 01:48 AM.

[Paptala]

almost all of the defining moment of the series had something to do with friendship or generations. so if those aren't what he wanted for themes then Kishimoto did a bad job prioritizing his themes.

The theme of bonds covers friendship, imo; the new generation surpassing the first is a theme in the manga, I agree, but Kishi has never directly stated it outright as he has the other two.

I will admit I didn't write that correctly, my point was that Naruto would have saved Sasuke anyways. It was a burden on Sakura, not Naruto, since he was going to do that regardless.

Well, as I see it, the burden on Naruto is not bringing back Sasuke, it's the fact that by promising to do so, he is both completely acknowledging that the girl he loves is in love with someone else, and that he will push aside his own feelings for her in order to make her happy. This is what makes the POAL all about Naruto's feelings for Sakura, and exactly what makes it a romantic gesture on Naruto's part. Instead of taking advantage of Sasuke's betrayal to make Sasuke look worse to Sakura (as he tried to do in chapter 3), or using the opportunity to make himself look better/get closer to her, he promised to bring Sasuke back. Gave her hope that the one she believed herself to be in love with would return, thus shutting out an opportunity for himself.

Not sure how the POAL is considered a burden on Sakura (unless you count how guilty Sai made her feel by describing it as a curse on Naruto, etc.). Mind elaborating on that one for me?

[Darth Krypt]

The theme of bonds covers friendship, imo; the new generation surpassing the first is a theme in the manga, I agree, but Kishi has never directly stated it outright as he has the other two.

I thought he did by constantly writing about the will of fire.

[redragon88]

When Sai was explaining Sakura's intentions to Naruto he said something among the lines of "By confession her love for you she thought she'd lift your burden".

If I'm honest when I first read that line years ago I thought Sai was saying that by Sakura putting up an act of loving Naruto she'd lift his burden. Nowadays I have a different perspective but I still want to ask you all:

When Sai said "by confession her love for you" do you think he was trying to explain that Sakura just confessed for Naruto's sake and happiness even though she didn't feel that way about him or do you think that when Sai said that line he was acknowledging that Sakura was in love with Naruto even if she still loved Sasuke?

I'm not asking whether Sakura's feelings are true or not, I'm just asking what do you think is Sai's interpretation on the whole matter.

Edited by redragon88, 10 July 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Branden]

I don't know. Honestly Kishimoto has made this entire pairing war so confusing I don't even know what to think. He does all this buildup with Hinata and Sakura in part 1, and in part 2 he gives both of them confessions. He makes Naruto and Sakura look like their closer but then throws huge obstacles in front of them. He acts like Sakura is finally getting over Sasuke only to have it be a huge troll. He makes it clear to Hinata that Naruto doesn't have feelings for her but then he shows Hinata being more persistent then ever. And now we have Sakura swearing that she will fight with Naruto together.

People keep trying to rationalize couples over and over again, but no matter what we do both sides are going to have people who are like 99.18273987198% sure that pairing X will happen and paring Y is completely dead. I just want this pairing war to be over, there's too much confusion and biased. I feel like I'm lost in a sea of opinions, for all I care Naruto could end up with that Ichiraku ramen girl, I just want an answer.


Anyway that was my emotional breakdown if you liked it be sure to read my fanfiction which is completely irrelevant.


EDIT: forgot comas

Edited by Branden, 10 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[Verilance]

in all honesty, and I know my bias is showing, there is no pairing war, there is, has, and will be only one pairing in Naruto, ShikaTem... no oops NaruSaku lol

Edited by Verilance, 10 July 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[Branden]

^ If one has the chance I think it would be better to start with the anime instead of the manga. The studio in charge of One Piece always does an excellent job. The animation is good, at the very least, and the music and voice acting never stops being of high quality. Seeing the anime will really have more impact on for anyone, in my opinion at least.

Thanks for the suggestion, I think my favorite line so far is when Nami picks up a pistol and says "This is a pistol."




Anyways, it's been so long with the pairings I just want an answer at this point. Kishimoto, give us 1 chapter. Just one, and end this pairing war!

[Gravenimage]

Thanks for the suggestion, I think my favorite line so far is when Nami picks up a pistol and says "This is a pistol."




Anyways, it's been so long with the pairings I just want an answer at this point. Kishimoto, give us 1 chapter. Just one, and end this pairing war!

Kishi will end the pairing wars at the end of the manga it should be obvious by now.

[Dalton.T.R]

You have to remember Kishi was attacked by rabbid NaruHina fans saying they'll stop reading the manga if Hinata doesn't end up with Naruto. If he was going to have Naruto end up with Hinata he'd be showing signs of falling love with Hinata, but Naruto still likes Sakura. So that alsone is a good hint to what pairing will most likely happen *caugh* NaruSaku *caugh*

[Gravenimage]

You have to remember Kishi was attacked by rabbid NaruHina fans saying they'll stop reading the manga if Hinata doesn't end up with Naruto. If he was going to have Naruto end up with Hinata he'd be showing signs of falling love with Hinata, but Naruto still likes Sakura. So that alsone is a good hint to what pairing will most likely happen *caugh* NaruSaku *caugh*

He wasn't literally attacked by NH fans more like he received crazy fan mail from them including bashing Sakura (which he didn't like). I mean I wouldn't be happy if fans bash my heroine which I'm fond off and it's an original characters I created.